Teen strangled, slit 9-year-old's throat
Missing Norwegian Pearl passenger Jennifer Ellis Seitz was a freelance writer who had struggled with weight issues in the past and been married twice in the last two years. Jennifer was on the Pearl with her new husband Raymond Seitz and an older woman named Donna Ellis. Ellis is Jennifer's maiden name, so it seems likely that Donna is her mother.Jennifer Seitz married Michael Rich on June 5, 2005, but the marriage clearly didn't last long. By early 2008, she was married to Raymond Seitz.
Jennifer and Raymond were both members of ObesityHelp.com. There they each kept diaries of the run-up to their respective lap band surgeries. Jennifer actually had two -- diary 1, diary 2. Both were clearly the work of someone accustomed to expressing herself, and were filled with wit and hope. Raymond had his own diary here, and it was more terse and to the point, as well as reflecting his devotion to Nascar, particularly racer Dale Earnhardt Jr. In a note near the bottom of the diary, Raymond wrote about Jennifer:
When I started this journey in august 2002 I would have never dreamed that I would have been this succesfull I did everything I am suppose to and still do I take my vitamins and get my blood work done reguarally It always comes back awesome my doctor said I have deffinatally done well so hurray for me Thanks to all who have helped me along the way and expecially my surgery and lifelong friend Jen Ellis ( who by the way is such a hottie and has done wonderfull for herself)...The story of Jennifer's disappearance from the Norwegian Pearl on December 26 is still confusing and full of holes. Several people claiming to have been on the cruise have left comments on a previous entry about the disappearance. Some of the comments are quoted (or partially quoted) below:
Kiran: My husband and I just disembarked from the "Norwegian Pearl" today; the same cruise that this woman was on.Another comment was interesting more for who appeared to leave it:
While watching the evening news in our state room a couple of nights ago, we were shocked to learn of the possibility that a woman had fallen overboard.
It is odd that no announcement of the incident was made by the cruise staff. It seems as though they would have made it public, posted a photo of the woman, and asked guests for any infomration they may have had regarding the passenger on the evening and early morning of her disaapearance.
The whole ship just went about its activities oblivious to the tradegy. Word spread among some guests during our last day. Everyone we spoke with shared the same suprise that no announcement was made and at the lack of any attempt on the part of NCL to gather information regarding the incident.
My heart goes out to the her family. I hope they find her.
Adam Bercovici: I also just got off the Norwiegan Pearl early this morning. The way the ship handled the situation was absolutely dispicable. We were not notified of the situation to see if we could have helped. After asking around to a number of people, I found a family from Louisiana who said that they were directly one floor under the alleged room and heard loud screaming around 8:00pm on Christmas Day, the day we left Cozumel on track to the private cruise island in the Bahamas. The family told us that they called security because they distinctly heard the words "stop hitting me" but that security did nothing in response to their inquiry. Why would it take the husband 6 hours to report his wife missing??? The cruise also should have sent some security personnel over to the room immediately after they were notified. There were many other problems with the Norweigan Pearl that would make me never want to go back but I think this one clinches it...
rachelle: i was on the ship and there was NO COMPREHENSIVE SEARCH!. we weren't even told she was missing. we found out through cnn. when i asked security about it they said "no comment". wft? cover up....
kerry sanders: If you were on the "Pearl" and happened to buy the video "the not-quite-newlywed show" or if you taped it yourself, I'd love to chat with you. Obviously, that tape has some elements which are now highly interesting. CheersKerry Sanders is the name of a well-known correspondent for NBC and the poster left an NBC e-mail address -- in an address format typically known only to NBC staffers and those of us who have reason to write to them. Sanders typically works stories out of Florida -- so it doesn't seem a big stretch to think this was the reporter himself.
Someone calling themselves "Dr. Tara Kent" left the most interesting, but perhaps most questionable comment:
Dr. Tara Kent: My husband and I were among the last eight passengers off the ship today; what can I say, he was lazy? Anyhow in the hallway oblivious to the fact that he was being overheard an FBI Agent was giving report to his superiors and it was startlingly lacking in any as previously mentioned by another "poster" real intensive investigative drive. The Agent stated that they were debriefing the two cabins beside the incident and the one above and below. He also stated that he was debriefing the mother...and a "person of interest" - no mention of the male party present. The only reason I am repeating this is because I work for the DOD in a high security related field and I too am appalled by the way the entire incident was handled to include the last part - giving report in an unsecure area - how sloppy... It'd be real easy to commit suicide aboard - you'd be caught on camera as mentioned...homicide, well that's just a bit harder, but not impossible. Oh, yeah I agree about the comprehensive search - there was NONE!!! Deregulation of the cruise industry...hmmmmm, what a phenomenal idea...
The commenter gave specific, verifiable information and was clearly educated, based on writing style. However, it's easy to doubt anyone who claims to "work for the DOD in a high security field" because it seems like the sort of thing you wouldn't say in a blog comment, especially with a real-sounding name attached. I copied "Dr. Tara Kent's" comment into this post simply because it will either be proven b.s. shortly or become the most interesting post left on the previous blog entry about this case.
Police reportedly have video from the ship of a woman in white clothing -- perhaps a robe -- going overboard on the 26th. This has been reported in a manner that leads one to conclude Jennifer Seitz intended to go overboard. And that possibility should not be dismissed. She struggled a great deal with her weight, and a freelance writer never has it easy, career-wise -- it's often feast or famine. Also, two marriages over the space of 3 years seems odd, and potentially indicative of some instability in Jennifer's life -- the sort of instability that could eventually lead to self-destruction.
But why would Kerry Sanders be interested in a tape such as the one he described above, if that was indeed Mr. Sanders? Typically, he'd be interested because he's all over the story and knows some news is on the way.
Whatever happened the other night in the western Caribbean, it added up to tragedy for those who know and love Jennifer Seitz. The question now is this -- was it a personal tragedy, only dragged into the news because of the exotic locale, or a domestic tragedy and a crime? We'll probably know very soon. If we don't, you'll be hearing about Jennifer Seitz in the news for many days to come.
**ADDED LATER** Bitten and Bound clarifies information about the video mentioned in a comment by Kerry Sanders:
Ray and Jennifer were participants on a cruise ship game show called "The Not So Newlyweds" where it was learned they have been married for about a year, and had their first date in Orlando, FL.
Thanks to Andrea for the heads-up.
[MSNBC/WESH also: hat-tip to long-time reader Diane for the research and input.]







Ray and Jennifer were participants on the cruise ship game show Sanders is interested in.
Posted 12/28/2008 at 11:49:00 PMhttp://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/12/28/jennifer-ellis-seitz-identified-as-woman-missing-from-cruise-ship-photos/
When I was on a Royal Carribean cruise several years ago a man jumped overboard in an attempt to kill himself after losing his life savings in the casino. Immediately there was an announcement made and searches conducted. The Captain made several announcements and within a few hours he was picked up (ironically) by a gambling ship. The captain made the following announcement (even in the cabins), "He has been found. He can speak. He is ok."
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:08:19 AMThat became the mantra for the rest of the cruise. "I can speak. I am ok."
I was also on the pearl this past week and the cruise ship didn't inform anyone of what was going on. I am discusted of how ncl handled the situation. My family found out on dec 26 around 4 p.m. we were freaked out!!! we didn't know what to do. People started to find out from the news and were discusted that they weren't informed about jennifer. My brother stayed on the opposite side of the hall as jennifer and you could see that there was tape over the key hole and card slot (room #11122). I had heard from a source on board that this was no suicide or accident. I am afraid that no one will know what happened to jennifer except for the crew members and her husband. We all need to keep praying for jennifer and her family. I saw the dating show too and her husband kept saying sorry mom..., jennifer kept hiding her face, they were arguing and the looked completely drunk. They said stuff like they met in a bar and had sex in an alley... huh..... pick your men carefully girls!!
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:23:42 AMI don't have anything to add to this conversation, but your coverage of this story, Steve, is an excellent example of why I keep coming back to you and the various blogs you've had over the years. Great work as always, and thank you.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 08:51:09 AMI just saw the news coverage showing still photos of the investigation and noticed the position of a chair next to the balcony railing. I am an avid cruiser and have known people to climb on a chair in that position to "hop" balconies. Does anyone have any information on who was in the stateroom on that side of the Seitz's room? That may come into question. (Just my two cents)
Posted 12/29/2008 at 10:33:46 AMI agree with Gene that no amount of regulation is going to stop suicide, murder, or drunken accidents. But if I had a loved one that went missing on a cruise I would at least want to know that someone cared enough to make every effort to locate that person, and that includes informing everyone on board of what happened, not to do so is criminally negligent in my book. What if it had been a rapist or killer? Are you not going to warn people? In the US that spells major class action lawsuit. What is the point of all this "national security" crap of passports and scanning security cards ??? What kind of security do you have when a possible major crime has been committed on the ship and the paying passengers are not even informed???!!! Passports and scans is the regulation we can do without. Simple basic common courtesy of a thorough investigation when someone goes missing does not require legislation.
And as for those of you who are already branding this woman as unstable because she had a weight problem and a few divorces??!! That is shameful and judgemental. You have elected people to run your country, your government and spend your hard earned tax dollars who are more unstable.
NOTE FROM STEVE: No one is branding Jennifer Seitz anything. There is totally legitimate question as to whether or not she committed suicide. There's nothing judgmental about asking if there were factors in her life that indicated depression and/or instability. At the moment, no one really seems to know what happened, but if she committed suicide, it didn't happen all of the sudden -- suicides grow out of many circumstances, including severe depression. Having lost a sibling to suicide, I can tell you that I don't judge anyone on this score.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 10:42:00 AMAs to what happened on another ship and comparing to this situation.
The report was many, many hours after the event took place, so the ship could not just turn around and look.
Once the husband reported her missing, there may well have been more information made available to the ship that led to certain conclusions. This could then lead to a decision to NOT announce it to the whole ship. Sometimes others do not need to know.
Meanwhile - I am sure somebody did some videos of the dating game onboard. It will show on youtube soon I suspect.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 10:52:37 AMWith all due respect, and I am quoting the posted phrase that prompted my response "two marriages over the space of 3 years seems odd, and potentially indicative of some instability in Jennifer's life, the sort of instability that could lead to self destruction."
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:04:49 AMI have not had a family member commit suicide but I have had friends who did, and it is tragic. But before we say that Jennifer may have been the unstable one, let's look at her husband.
As a woman who has been in an abusive relationship, I can tell you this, that alone will lead to instability. I left one long term relationship and one marriage because of abuse and I was not the unstable one.
I am surprised by the passengers comments on how an investigation should be run. The only time they announce an overboard is if someone sees them go overboard. Not because they are hiding it, but because there is no point in waking everyone up at 5 am because someone misplaced their family. Too many times, people will go for a walk and not leave a note.
For all we know, they may have found the video of her falling overboard shortly after he reported her missing. And before it would be necessary to alert the passengers.
There is no reason to tell you. YOU do not know the facts. If you would wait for them to conclude their investigation, before blaming the ship for the "disgusted","appalling" and "dispicable" investigation, you may learn that they already knew what happened and it had nothing to do with you or the other passengers...imagine that! And no one needs to know what happened to her except the authorities and her family (what kind of comment is theat?) and as for your "sources", well, I know a guy who heard from his brothers' fiance's mother's best friend who had a maid who was on the Pearl at the time and she remembers a guy who heard another guy talking about his wife.... you are all pathetic. Rumors may be fun and interesting, but to blame the ship without the facts is just stupid.
I imagine that you also blamed the ship because everyone decided to eat at the buffet line at the same time and you had to wait in line, or perhaps it rained and ruined your day to sunbathe, or you threw up because the bartender didn't know that you could only handle 2 margherita's, or they wouldn't let you in the dining room with cut off jean shorts, or they wouldn't let your kids run around the pool area.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:37:46 AMIt's not about you, the police and FBI wouldn't tell you either. And it's not the ships fault either. (i will be extremely pissed off if they put fencing on my balcony!!).
Just because you were not informed doesn't mean they are not doing their job. You have nothing to do with a stranger falling off a balcony if you didn't see it happen. It's amazing how we easily complain about how other people do their jobs when we do not know the facts or have the hindsight in which to criticize.
Hi there. If you were on the Norwegian pearl cruise and have video of the not so newlywed game or any photos that might be of interest please email me at Gigi.stone@abc.com. Thanks so much.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:57:14 AMJulie, I think most people are not judging cruise lines based on this one incident. If you get time take a look at the cruise junkie website overboard statistics. The numbers are alarming and seem to be getting worse, to epidemic proportions. Most of the people are never found, so there is no way of telling what really happened. That along with the numbers of women disappearing and dying at the hands of partners daily presents a situation that needs to be dealt with. That's not to say that women are the only victims because they are not. It just seems to me that with the amount of money these cruise lines are taking in, they could afford to put in more sophisticated security cameras and sensors that would indicate when someone has gone overboard. We are living in the technology age.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:08:34 PMHi
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:11:30 PMI work with FOX News Channel. If any passengers aboard this ship are reading this and have information regarding Jennifer or Ray Seitz please email me at tomfox82@gmail.com
We are looking for guests who were passengers on the ship. Thank you.
Hi
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:17:27 PMI work with FOX News Channel. If any passengers aboard this ship are reading this and have information regarding Jennifer or Ray Seitz please email me at tomfox82@gmail.com
We are looking for guests who were passengers on the ship. Thank you.
wow, Julie. Thanks for the bitter comments. Really helps. I was on the ship and I think I speak for everyone that we had a problem with how this was handled by NCL. They taped off the room for an investigation of possible murder. Then they allowed the prime suspect to stay on the ship, walking around freely. The captain was going to have him isolated until we got back into Miami, but decided to let him hang out anywhere on the ship as long as he didn't talk about it to anyone. So, it is about me, and everyone else on the ship who shared public areas with a suspected murderer.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:28:51 PMThe fact that hard news reporters are having to resort to blogs just to get any info on this case does not bode well for the cruise industry. The secrecy kind of reminds me of our government when they try to cover up crimes. Never works. The truth always comes out sooner or later. I just know one thing about the cruise lines, they better not start asking for a bailout.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:51:37 PMSomething I found interesting after reading this story was that Jennifer was watching her weight, had wrote an earlier article about exercising aboard a cruise line and when you note the curious position of the chair on her balcony one could draw several hypothesizes from the situation other than her being emotionally unstable and unhappy while on a wonderful cruise with her husband and family. Did anyone think that perhaps she might have been exercising or working on a new article doing some of the “step-ups” she talks about in one of her articles or trying a new exercise technique, lost her balance and tumbled over the side? Just a thought.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 12:59:01 PMTraci,
Posted 12/29/2008 at 01:43:56 PMChair? Balcony? Where did you see a photo of this?
I have cruised NCL, their workout rooms are usually on the upper decks and not anywhere near railings. When they have group exercise sessions they are usually on the main deck and again not anywhere near a balcony.
Cruise Bruise is a good place to research Cruise related incidents and crimes. The below link takes you to Jennifer's case.
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Jennifer_Seitz.html
More articles at the below links:
December 28, 2008
Incident Of Woman Overboard On Christmas Day Puzzling
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Blog/December_28_2008.html
December 29, 2008
Passengers Aboard Pearl Had No Idea There Was A MOB
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Blog/December_29_2008.html
Posted 12/29/2008 at 01:52:52 PMNever mind, Traci. Just saw the photos on bittenandbound.com. I doubt she was exercising on that balcony. Definitely not enough room. And at 8 o'clock in the evening? Doesn't seem likely. And in her bathrobe no less? The whole scenario is just strange. Why the fingerprinting going on? There are probably dozens of them from the current guests and former ones, I don't see what that will tell anyone.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 01:53:19 PMCruise Bruise is a good place to research Cruise related incidents and crimes. The below link takes you to Jennifer's case.
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Jennifer_Seitz.html
More articles at the below links:
December 28, 2008
Incident Of Woman Overboard On Christmas Day Puzzling
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Blog/December_28_2008.html
December 29, 2008
Passengers Aboard Pearl Had No Idea There Was A MOB
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Blog/December_29_2008.html
Posted 12/29/2008 at 01:57:39 PMNative Texan: If you read Jennifer's article that she wrote (sometime earlier this summer) the story is focused on tips for crew members exercising in tight places aboard cruise ships. I would be interested to see if Jennifer had contracted or talked with the same company on doing a follow-up piece, or if she had talked with her family about it. Sometimes as a freelance writer you write the piece and then sell it at a later date before you have even talked to a potential "buyer." Because she lives in the Florida area, the piece would be timeless and she could use the trip as a write-off to gather material and then use various aspects of the cruise over a long period of time.
I'm just tossing ideas out for thought. Not proof positive ideas, you understand. I’m just mulling some thoughts aloud in this blog. It will be interesting to see what the crime investigators find out. But sometimes people overlook small obvious clues.
NOTE FROM STEVE: I'm sorry, Traci. This is a popular post and I missed publishing this on the first go-round. My apologies. I'd like to leave it unmoderated here -- less work for me -- but I'm not quite ready to do that yet.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 02:15:29 PMNative Texan:
Posted 12/29/2008 at 02:28:45 PMJennifer also talks about exercising at odd hours in her article. You should read it, and then look at the photos. I'm not saying it is what happened, but it is just an aspect to consider. I know the whole scenario is strange, but not unfeasible. Ask any woman who is a couple of pounds overweight or who has even a tad of cellulite and she will tell you she would prefer to exercise in private if she can, rather than in a crowded room where people are going to see her sweat. I'm sure if Jennifer had been as overweight at one point as what is being reported she probably had stretch marks and other unsightly issues from losing all that weight, but besides all that - if she was doing research for an article she would also want to make sure it was accurate. Writers have a credibility issue to maintain. ~At least the good ones do.~
Er, uh...
Posted 12/29/2008 at 02:53:27 PMOne of my posts is missing. Hopefully everyone can understand what I'm saying since it wasn't posted.
It is interesting to look at the psychology of those who are uninvolved (myself included). It seems that many people's first instinct is to not only accuse the husband, but act like it is overtly obvious that he did it. It is kind of foolish to think that without knowing the facts...
Everyone also points out that he waited 8 hours to report her missing, but that is not quite fair to point at as a sign of guilt. We have no idea if the reported timeline or time that she fell is accurate. We also have no idea when he first noticed she was gone. If I was on a cruise and noticed my wife missing I would not be quick to report it... She could have been strolling the ship, gambling, shopping, eating, or who knows what.
And do not forget - her mom was sharing a room with them. She did not report her daughter missing for the same amount of time. Not everything is so black and white, and it is not quite fair to judge externally. Maybe he did it, or maybe something else happened. It is sad to think about and worse if you read her blog and put some humanity to the name.
I do not see why their confessions during the newlywed game or them admitting risque sex would have anything to do with her falling overboard.
It is interesting to see the passenger viewpoints and see who was actually on the ship, surprisingly most that claim to have been on this cruise actually were.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 03:10:11 PMSteve:
Posted 12/29/2008 at 03:24:41 PMThank you for the apology. I understand and you were not only gracious, but prompt in correcting the problem. :) I also want to thank you for being so vigilant - it makes for a nice read.
I was a passenger on the Norwegian Pearl . It was the first time i had been on a cruise and was somewhat apprehensive of the idea of going on a cruise . The staff were nothing but acommodating and polite . The ship is absolutely beautiful and the "no comment" that people might have recieved from staff , is exactly what they should have gotten . This ship is only two years old and im guessing has a top notch camera system . Why would the crew want to bum everyone out with details that they dont even have . Let the FBI do their job and the truth will come out . I do know this . I will cruise again with NCL and if you fell off that boat you were either pushed , you jumped , or you were just doing something stupid which caused you to fall off . period .
Posted 12/29/2008 at 03:48:07 PMReports now indicate that the search has been cancelled or suspended.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 04:01:19 PMThe family released a statement via FL Today stating that Jennifer had emotional problems in the past.
Now MSNBC, just flashed a pic of Ray on TV saying that he was arrested in April for domestic violence.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 04:07:44 PMI've posted a brief update on this case here:
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2008/12/update_on_missing_writer_jenni.php
Posted 12/29/2008 at 04:33:08 PMOk, I am really trying to look at all the scenarios here, really and trying to keep an open mind. But I look at the numbers and at history. And the numbers and the history tells me that when a young woman goes missing like this there is usually foul play involved.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 04:44:29 PMAnd what is with the statement "Jennifer had emotional problems in the past". Hello?? Have we all not had issues of one kind or another if we get to be in our late 30's?
Thanks for posting the link Steve and also thanks for this blog and your diligence at covering a story that nobody seemed to be able to get any info on but for the blogs.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 05:02:29 PMOf course I am just not surprised at the news about Jennifer's husband. Granted, it doesn't mean we jump to conclusions but again look at the history.
Speaking of history and on the subject of cruise ship safety, those of you who have cruised know that the very first thing that is done on a cruise before anything is the lifeboat drill. There is a reason for that. One word. Titanic. Laws were changed after that disaster regarding number of life boats that must be on board and passenger safety. This is how changes in the laws are made, by precedent. We now have a precedent that has as yet not been dealt with. People going overboard. With no one noticing for hours. I trust we can get something done about this issue before more people die.
We, too , were on board. We had group of twelve, some quite close to cabin 11122. Our butler told us that holidays are a depressing time for people, and that they expect suicides during this time of year. We also heard from other staff almost the exact thing. Was there a crew practice of this line? We could not believe the deafening sound of silence from the ship, they had a lovely chaplain on board, why not have a service for people to come together, so that everyone felt helpful, the silence and the appearance of lack of action on part of ncl was shocking.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 05:10:10 PMCurious George makes an excellent point. The holidays do seem to exacerbate problems that are already prevalent. However, so now the crew says they are "expecting suicides"???!!! All the more reason to be vigilant in the prevention of people going overboard and ever watchful.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 05:26:50 PMDo they have a room on board that they monitor all those cameras? Surely they watch the casino area in real time like the gaming establishments in the states.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 05:34:18 PMIt seems like NCL was trying to cover this up at the time, i was on the norwegian pearl when this incident happened, no one was informed and the crew members would not say one word about the incident, it seems like they knew what was going on but would not talk to anyone about it. If they were not certain if she went over wouldn't they have put her picture on the screens around the ship, so maybe someone could identify her? I was in suite a few floors up and my brother on floor 11 near by the Seitz, and my butler informed me that the wedding ring was found in the room, the crew was not allowed to talk about it, and that she did in fact know what was going on. But it seems to me that if they have her falling overboard around 8pm on camera, then they would more than likely have a camera in the hallway close to her room, i wonder if the husband went into the room with her around that time, and where was the mother when all this was happening? i saw the newlywed show and she appeared to be laughing and having a good time together, in fact she and her husband knew each other the best out of anyone and answered the most questions correct out of the other couples. Either way we will probably never know, but i am outraged that we were never informed about the incident, NCL has had numerous other incidents where people were never informed or aware of the situation, perhaps this could save time and answers.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 06:12:08 PMThe fact she was laughing just hours before this incident and even the fact she had participated in such a social event as this game tells me she was probably not suicidal. People who are depressed to the point of suicide normally shut themselves off from others and are no longer social.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 06:44:37 PMEither way, I am saddened that she is gone and even more saddened with NCL at the way this was handled. Because of this we will probably never know what happened. Unless someone issues a subpoena for that video, they don't have to produce it. My guess is, any family member who might try to take this to court will be offered money to keep it quiet. I doubt I will ever cruise with NCL again.
Regarding safety and innovation. Isn't it time to offer a wristband/ankleband transponder (especially for kids) that would trigger an alarm on the boat when the transmitter gets out of range (1.5 times the boat length)? GPS technology could be incorporated for fast locating. Information such as name, age, cabin number, emergency contact could be ascertained in a blink of an eye. The devices could be enabled/disabled upon embarking or disembarking.
PS Do cruise ships have deck phones for emergency situations?
Posted 12/29/2008 at 06:50:25 PMhttp://www.msnbc.com/id/28392898/
Posted 12/29/2008 at 06:53:28 PMPic of Raymond Seitz on this. Ok, everyone is going to e-kick my butt for this, but when I looked at this guy's pic I just gasped, just the photo gives me the heebie jeebies.
Call it instinct, but he just scares me............and it's only a photo.
My apologies, that was not a good link. Does anyone have the link that shows his picture?
Posted 12/29/2008 at 07:06:02 PMYou can use this link, type in his name and then click on the booking number that will bring up his pic & charges.
http://www.polksheriff.org/inq/Pages/Jail.aspx
Native Texan, I have mixed feeling about this still too. Ray's not squeaky clean. He has a past. Not the type of man I'd want my daughter to marry.
And what's with him head butting her? That was unusual. I expected punching or kicking but not head butting.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 07:19:42 PMHere's the MSNBC article. Scroll down for his pic : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28392898/
Posted 12/29/2008 at 07:36:14 PMA couple named Nestor was interviewed on the Today show. They said the guy was going to the casino hours after his wife disappeared. He had a bag of quarters and told Mr. Nestor, "I'm going to the casino to see if my luck changes". Call me crazy but that is just plain nuts and completely out of character for a man whose wife of only a year goes missing off of a cruise ship.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 07:39:34 PMThe Coast Guard is now saying it was 11 hours in between the fall and his reporting her missing.
Ok - i am enjoying reading all the info on this site as i find mysteries very exciting.
I have to say that i had been on two NCL cruises in the past. Enjoyed them to the fullest.
I agree with how they handled the "notification" to other passengers. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS PEOPLE. They have no obligation to tell you that someone went overboard 8 hours earlier.
Would you do anything differently if you knew? You probably would start your own investigation and GET IN THE WAY.
Suppose i came to your place of business to visit and one of your co-workers jumped out the window, would you feel obligated to tell me?
Keep up all the posts about what happened though - but lets stop bashing the cruise line.
Thanks
Posted 12/29/2008 at 08:56:49 PMOk call me crazy but why do I feel like the police and the media are trying terribly hard to make the obvious suspect not a suspect? Where was her mother and her husband while she was in the room? Where was the camera angled? Did the people in the room below see anything? There are so many questions and we may never know the answers. Having had quite a few friends and family commit suicide you dont always see it coming the day tragedy strikes. I had an uncle kill himself suddenly and he had no prior mental health issues according to his doctor, wife, and other family members. I also had a childhood friend hang himself in his parents garage over a fight he had with his parents. So although its sounds like suicide is a possibility, it sounds more likely the head butting hubby should be A1 priority. He has your answers.
NOTE FROM STEVE: The news media hates lawsuits, pure and simple. If people start trying to try and convict this guy in the press and it ends up he can prove it was suicide, he's got lawsuits he can file everywhere. So even though reporters, etc have the same instincts as everyone else, they -- we have to walk a fine line with our words, much of the time.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 09:23:09 PMThis is going to surely turn into another George Smith type case, we will never know what really happened.
But I will say this, people have a right when they pay alot of money for a vacation to expect a reasonable amount of peace of mind and safety. When something like this happens it violates that trust between passenger and vacation provider. If you are going to serve alcohol practically 24/7, you have to expect there is going to be a certain amount of mayhem and you better know how to deal with it quickly, professionally, and treat the passengers as if they matter.
On a personal note, ladies, if there is abuse in your relationship of any kind, be it verbal or physical----GET OUT AND DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GO BACK!!! IF HE IS GOING TO TREAT YOU BADLY A YEAR AFTER YOU ARE MARRIED IMAGINE HOW BAD IT WILL GET 5 OR 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD----PROVIDED YOU ARE STILL ALIVE! I HAVE BEEN THERE! IT WILL NOT GET BETTER, YOU CANNOT FIX HIM, IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO FIX HIM, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU AT ALL, IT IS ABOUT HIM!! IT IS ABOUT HIS INSTABILITY, HIS LACK OF SELF CONTROL, HIS EGO, HIS NEED TO CONTROL.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 10:33:08 PMOn a sad and ironical note, did anyone read Jennifer's diary entry about having met O.J. Simpson (for real!)when she had a bachelorette party and she and her girlfriends had their picture made with him?? O.J., wife abuser and murderer of the century, and she is posing with him. Sad but true.
May God rest her soul, and may God deliver women everywhere from this evil.
I have seen it posted here before but I feel compelled to repeat. NCL did nothing wrong by not telling everyone on board about this incident.
My wife and I took this cruise and found out about the disappearance from another passenger who saw the report on CNN. CNN was already reporting about a woman overboard. Not missing...overboard. Where else but from the call for Coast Guard help would CNN have gotten the information? Follow the chain of logic...man reports wife missing shortly before 4am. Security would naturally begin a physical search but would also scan the CCTV recordings. They would see the woman in a white bathrobe falling overboard. They already know where she is before most of us are rallying to the breakfast buffet.
Why on earth would an announcement be made so we could all play gumshoe and accuse the husband or even now, psychoanalyze a family whom none of us has even met and shamelessly jump to conclusions? For those that harbor a desire to have been more involved or would have liked the opportunity to hold a chapel service "had we only known", this is not about you!! This is about a family that has experienced a tragedy and deserves room to mourn. The final details and outcome, when the investigation is complete are, again, none of your business. The feeling that NCL has somehow violated your trust and your right to meddle in other people's affairs is perverse and frankly, a little co-dependent.
I'll say it again...NCL, you did nothing wrong. My wife and I enjoyed our time with you and will do so again in the future without trepidation.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:22:34 PMThank You Native Texan - for saying it so very CLEARLY!
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:41:42 PMWith all due respect Mr. Howell, alot of people on that cruise HAVE met Mr. Seitz, and were creeped out by him. Have you not heard their interviews on the news?
Posted 12/29/2008 at 11:45:55 PMFor those of us who haven't met him, we were introduced by the mug shot provided to us by the police of Polk County Florida.
haha....
R. Howell you make me laugh. You need to check yourself.
Do you remember the intercom around 8 in the morning on the 26?
"Jennifer Fietz please dial 00"
That tells me that they didn't know were she was or what happened to her. So yes NCL did wrong by not asking us if we had seen her or had known any info about jennifer.
It is our business because we were sharing common space with her husband and he could haved harmed us or even worse our family members.
Naturally people will worry about things and we will make it our business because we are curious beings, and want to learn from things that happen around us so it wont happen to ourselves.
I would like to know what has happened here as i am curious and have a right to ask for answers so whatever happened to her idk hopefully whoever "pushed" her gets punished for their sins. But only god knows in the end. Her life deserves to be respected and have clear cut answers as to what happened to her so other people know that it is not the right thing to do. You cant get away with it. You cant just excuse someone's life like that.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 12:50:32 AMhaha....
R. Howell you make me laugh. You need to check yourself.
Do you remember the intercom around 8 in the morning on the 26?
"Jennifer Fietz please dial 00"
That tells me that they didn't know were she was or what happened to her. So yes NCL did wrong by not asking us if we had seen her or had known any info about jennifer.
It is our business because we were sharing common space with her husband and he could haved harmed us or even worse our family members.
Naturally people will worry about things and we will make it our business because we are curious beings, and want to learn from things that happen around us so it wont happen to ourselves.
I would like to know what has happened here as i am curious and I have a right to ask for answers (especially as a passenger) so whatever happened to her idk hopefully whoever "pushed" her gets punished for their sins. But only God knows in the end. Her life deserves to be respected and have clear cut answers as to what happened to her so other people know that it is not the right thing to do. You cant get away with it. You cant just excuse someone's life like that.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 12:52:57 AMhaha....
R. Howell you make me laugh. You need to check yourself.
Do you remember the intercom around 8 in the morning on the 26?
"Jennifer Fietz please dial 00"
That tells me that they didn't know were she was or what happened to her. So yes NCL did wrong by not asking us if we had seen her or had known any info about jennifer.
It is our business because we were sharing common space with her husband and he could haved harmed us or even worse our family members.
Naturally people will worry about things and we will make it our business because we are curious beings, and want to learn from things that happen around us so it wont happen to ourselves.
I would like to know what has happened here as i am curious and I have a right to ask for answers (especially as a passenger) so whatever happened to her idk hopefully whoever "pushed" her gets punished for their sins. But only God knows in the end. Her life deserves to be respected and have clear cut answers as to what happened to her so other people know that it is not the right thing to do. You cant get away with it. You cant just excuse someone's life like that.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 12:54:40 AMI took a carnival cruise last month & was surprised to find how low the balcony rail was. The 1st thing I jokingly said to my boyfriend . . . "I won't be arguing with you out here!"
If you look at the FBI pictures, you'll see this ship's rail was about waist high. It wouldn't take much, maybe a "head butt" to send her flying.
I'm sure he's a "person of interest". His prior dv arrest in April, just 4 months after their marriage, is very damaging to his character.
The original report of 8 hours between her fall & his mia report isn't necessarily cause for suspicion, if he was NOT in the cabin when she fell. He would probably assume she was engaged in one of many activities on a large cruise ship if she wasn't in the cabin.
His actions the following day are suspicious, 1)going to the casino & 2)making that remark about his luck changing as if losing money was comparable to losing a wife.
There's little information about her mother, although all 3 shared a cabin. I find it presumptuous of the family to call it a suicide, too quickly, considering the dv assault. Her writings, successes, personality & looking forward to a new job don't fit a description of someone suffering from depression or suicidal. Unless she was bi-polar & went into a depression cycle, perhaps caused by a weight issue, which seemed to consume a great deal of attention.
The not-so-newlywed game video will probably be scrutinized for emotional signs that may have triggered an episode leading to her death. There was mention of her wedding ring found in the cabin . . . did she remove it because she wanted to end the marriage? Her 1st marriage didn't last very long.
The surveillance videos from all public areas & the hallway leading to their room should confirm her husband's whereabouts at the time she went overboard. I presume the ship security staff would move her husband & mother to another cabin to seal off their cabin & begin an immediate investigation. I am surprised he wasn't sequestered to a private area away from other guests as a security measure, unless it was planned to closely monitor his activities for signs linking him to her murder.
My gut feeling - he murdered her. One can only guess about his mental stability. How does drastic weight loss affect your mind? In 2 years, he went from 375 to 146 lbs.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 02:10:05 AMAdd me to the list of passengers on the Pearl last week who are appalled by NCL's handling of the situation.
While I had first seen the couple on the 'newlywed show', I actually had dinner with Jennifer, her husband Ray, and her mother Donna on Christmas eve. My family and their family both signed up for the "murder mystery dinner" held that evening and we were paired up and spent a few hours together over dinner. All three seemed very nice and in good spirits. Jennier and Ray said they were celebrating their one year anniversary -- they were married 12/8/07.
On Friday, I learned from CNN about "a woman" missing from our ship. After hearning the news, I went to the info desk on the 7th floor of the ship and told the woman on duty I was shocked that we had to learn about it from CNN. If one of my family members was missing, I told her, I would expect they would make an announcement to the entire ship and put a flier under everyone's door with a photo -- to discover who might have seen something. She simply replied that she "cannot comment". I asked her to at least relay the message to the capatin or the cruise director (she made no commitment to do so).
It wasn't until Saturday that I found out the missing woman was someone I had actually met. I heard from another passenger that the missing woman had been on the 'newlywed show' and her name was Jennifer. That's when I relized it must be Jennifer that I had dinner with on Christmas eve, the night before she went overboard.
While I don't expect any info I had would help solve the case, the fact that no one even ASKED me is almost unbelievable. I did proactively call the FBI to tell them what I learned during my dinner with Jennifer and her family, but the point is that the actions NCL took during the critical early hours of the "investigation" did nothing to help Jennifer -- or figure out what happened and why.
Yes, there needs to be regulation within this industry. If (when) another person goes overboard on a ship, a real INVESTIGATION should actually take place. I'm disguisted with NCL.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 03:22:01 AMTelling cruise passengers what is going on is not only good PR, but may also help find the truth. Passengers are going to find out anyway, so why not make an announcement, something like: abc has happened, coast guard is looking and authorities are informed. Passengers will feel more respected that way. An announcement could have also included something like: if you have any information that you think might be helpful, please go to …. This gives people who might have seen or heard something the opportunity to share what they know. Treat people as adults, with respect, works better every time!
Yes, people die tragically every day in this world. But this is a cruise ship, where people expect to relax, have fun, and feel safe. Many people will feel intrigued by this story because it is a mystery. A Christmas one at that. No one is forced to follow this news, if you don’t relate, respect those who do.
Finally, there are some factors here that would indicate that a crime has in fact occurred:
1. Two newlyweds who underwent a dramatic weight loss. This by itself can create mental instability and pressure on the relationship.
2. Husband has a previous record of domestic violence.
3. There is at least one report here claiming that there was screaming and arguing in the cabin around the time she fell. This claim can be checked.
4. Wife appeared happy and content during the cruise.
5. Husband doesn’t report wife missing for hours. By itself not incriminating, but when wife turns up missing, you want to ask why.
6. Husband goes to casino right after disappearance, without signs of despair.
Can you add to the list?
Let’s just hope this won’t remain another Christmas mystery.
My heart goes out to the family of this courageous lady.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 04:44:22 AMI would be interested to know the following:
1) what time was the game that the Seitz's participated in? If they were laughing and getting along then how much time lapsed b/t then and 8pm?
2) doesn't anyone else find it odd that on one hand she was known to walk the deck due to difficulty sleeping, yet supposedly was in her room in a robe or gown at 8pm?
3) someone commented on the chair by the balcony and I too wondered about that. The way it was positioned looked like something someone would do if trying to jump over the high railing. But do we know if the chair was there or perhaps moved during investigation?
4) anyone know if her family/friends were aware of the domestic battery arrest? Even if I was quite sure my daughter may have jumped I would not be making a statement as such if I knew there was a miniscule chance that the same coward who head butted my daughter may have tossed her overboard.
5) my gut says he did it... but I know it is way too early and sadly we never seem to get the "whole" story. Some things that make me doubt it are the chair as it was positioned in the pics I saw. Then there's the height of the balcony rails. The sheer strength that it would take for a 5'5 150-160lb man to lift up dead weight (if she was passed out or deceased, and definitely if she were awake and fighting him as I would envision) and not only toss overboard, but throw body out far enough that it wouldn't hit the bowed out sides of the ship just seems inplausible to me. Even if I consider the chair may have been there for him to toss her overboard wouldn't the camera have caught that? And even if it didn't, it just seems like a reach for a man so small. Although my husband just reminded me of the time I was super drunk and at 5'2" and 124lbs I picked up a grandfather clock and tossed it like a sack of flour about 10 feet into the other room. I am very embarrased to share that story but I do recall several hulk like events when drinking heavily which is why I stopped within a year of starting drinking. Now I am not sure what to think... hmmm.
When I consider the suicide I have to believe something very hurtful transpired to have triggered such a desperate act. I recall reading where her husband said reluctantly that he would change "her breasts" as an answer to one of the game questions. I can imagine that this could have stung her at the time but maybe she played it off initially. Then with the alcohol any body images, arguments, and so on perhaps it was just enough to send her over the edge. Perhaps she had a fight and he said he wanted a divorce and she lost her "fairytale" as she had written in her blog. And after going through one divorce, her surgeries for weight loss and skin/fat removal on stomach and thighs, she deduced no matter what she did she would never be good enough. Maybe she did pull the chair to the edge and jump. Although we are all getting to know her by hearsay, her blog is pretty revealing. And she does seem to be a very emotion driven person. Maybe in the fight b/t her and her husband (if there was one) she took off her wedding rings and got on the chair in a desperate cry for help, or out of desperation. And perhaps he got angry and pushed her. Or maybe he tried to pull her in and she fell and he waited 8 hours to report her missing out of fear that he'd be blamed. Maybe her mom knew about it and that would explain why the family made the announcement that they thought she jumped? Sigh... any way this story ends it is a sad tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends that truly love and care about her.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 05:04:08 AMSorry for the long post and sleuth novel =)
4)
Beverly, you make some pretty good points. Well said.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 10:26:51 AMRegarding comments about suing the cruise for not reporting the incident:
Posted 12/30/2008 at 11:08:35 AMThe situation is tragic but whether accidental or not, in these situations everyone wants to sue or find fault with the cruiseline. Bottom line is when you are on a cruise you need to act as if you were at any other public place or hotel for that matter. Which means lock your doors, don't go places alone at night, etc. People tend to let their guard down because they are having a good time but just as with any hotel, instead this one is on water, the employees are not your babysitter. They are just there to keep you comfortable. If people get drunk and behave erractically, the staffers are suppose to call security as if they would in any other hotel or public place. People always want to sue for their own stupidity. People need to be responsible. Its like a friend riding in your car that is intoxicated and decides to jump from the moving car and then sues you because I you should have forseen this and had set the child safety locks. People need to be accountable. I feel sorry for her but going on a cruise with a man who had a past of violence against her was probably not the smartest thing, I've been there. And per other blogs they reported at some points they had been drinking - not so smart either. And if the cruise line knew she fell overboard why would they need to report her missing if they already knew what happened. Everyone wants to look at it as being a cover up but did anyone think that if they reported it to everyone, it would make the other passengers miserable on a vacation where people want to enjoy themselves... I don't work on a cruise line but have worked with the public for 15 years and have seen the decline in our culture as no one wants to be accountable for the stupid things they do and it is always someone else's fault. We are becoming a society of walking on eggshells because the next time you step on someones shoe, you may get shot or sued because you hurt their baby toe or dirtied their Nikes and now they can't make love to their spouse. The people in this country are getting ridiculous to the point that we are almost zombies...
One more question to ask, did he take out an insurance policy on her?
Posted 12/30/2008 at 11:11:25 AMRemember the lovely guy who killed his wife on the scuba diving "honeymoon" trip?
If this women was a writer, which on the news and internet they announced that she was, do you not think she would have left a note?? I am a writer and i would 100% write my final letter. It makes no sense
Posted 12/30/2008 at 03:28:02 PMOne thing that no one's mentioned: people who have made a plan to commit suicide are often seen as happy, even euphoric, in the days or weeks before completing their plan. I know this from personal experience. It is eerie to think that a person can be so seemingly joyful just hours prior to their own death but read the psych books. So perhaps what was seen as a happy Jennifer was just a relieved Jennifer who already had a plan and was looking for the right moment to put it into action.
Just a thought.
Count me among those who think that NCL had no obligation to keep passengers informed. I would think, based on just how crowded ships tend to get, that all the looky-loos wanting to come by and browse deck 11 it would have hampered any investigation they were attempting to make.
Also... you had to use a key card (your cruise card) to get into the room. I wonder if they can tell when the cards are used that way and whose card is used? That's an interesting angle as it would absolutely show if the husband and mother were in the room at the time of the incident.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 06:22:05 PMIf you rally want to kill yourself, why would you jump into the warm caribbean waters off CanCun? Chances are you don't die right away, you may swim for a while until you can't keep up anymore. Usually people who want to die hang themselves, shoot themselves, take pills or jump off golden gate to make it a sure thing.
And I do't agree that people are happy before suicide. In rare cases may be, but most of the time, there are obvious signs that a person is depressed.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 07:17:53 PMBeverly gives us some very good food for thought. I checked with WebMD, and yes, a sudden change in behavior from depressed to happy or ecstatic could be an indication of suicidal behavior, but heavy emphasis on COULD BE.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 08:56:46 PMI read all her diary entries, I do not get a suicidal person after reading them, she seems to have a very dynamic personality. This could explain some of the loudness/rowdiness that other passengers observed in her behavior. Also alcohol. Alcohol changes the dynamic of almost everything. People do so many things under the influence that they wouldn't ordinarily. I think putting up with an abusive partner can drive one to drink, no it's not an excuse, but it is an explanation. What surprises me is that as weight conscious as Jennifer seemed to be, drinking should be the last thing she should be doing. There are killer amounts of calories and sugar in liquor. Also if she was on any kind of antidepressant, drinking can also be very dangerous.
There's no shortage of alcohol on a cruise, that's for sure. Any way you look at this case, it was more thank likely a factor.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 09:48:20 PMDoes anyone know how far up their room was? If it was really high wouldn't she be killed on impact open crashing into the waters?
Another scenario would be that Jen and mom came back to the room and fell asleep. Jen woke up and jumped overboard at 8pm. While mom is still asleep Ray is out partying on the ship with some woman he met and comes back to the room around 3am. Perhaps Jen found out he was cheating and got depressed on the ship after being abandoned.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 10:01:12 PMInteresting comments on Fox news tonight. First, it seems the couple during this newlywed game fessed up to having made whoopie on cruise ship balconies before. Whoaaaa, major red flag!
Posted 12/30/2008 at 10:30:35 PMSecondly, more food for thought. Jennifer was a writer, she wrote and wrote and wrote. She was a reporter, blogger, emailer, etc. A friend thought it odd that for someone who chronicled her entire life in print, that she would leave this world without leaving something written behind.
Jennifer is a writer, as stated on the news and internet. She wrote several articles, so would one not think that she would write a suicide note??? I am a writer and I like to write about everything in my life, all my ideas, everything! I was on the ship and I don't understand why if they knew she went overboard would they announce to us at around 7:30-8:00 am "Jennifer Seitz please dial 00". Why would they have her on tape going overboard, but not know where her husband or mother were around the same time? There are 1100 cameras on this ship alone, wouldn't one of them catch an image?
Posted 12/30/2008 at 10:56:52 PMMomma Mia,
I believe the video of the fall was only reviewed when they reached the dock after FBI requested it. The police may know where the husband and mother were at but haven't released the information to the media. This is still an ongoing investigation.
Posted 12/30/2008 at 11:41:17 PMWhat's with the "live" webcam on the Pearl? The current pic is from yesterday morning at 10. I thought live webcam meant realtime.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 12:21:59 AMI keep having this fantasy that Jennifer is going to turn up alive, come back to the US and exact her revenge.
I just feel so strongly that this was no accident or suicide. But I agree with a previous poster that she was not alive when she went over that balcony. It would be hard enough to even push someone off, but if they were fighting you it would be next to impossible.
I believe there was a terrible fight (which was heard by other passengers), he may have strangled her, then tossed her overboard.
I cruised on that ship 3 weeks ago and had NO complaints. I don't think that it is in the staff's best interest to alert and worry every passenger on board. When a a horrible event, say murder or suicide, happens in your neighborhood, no one goes in the middle of the street with a bullhorn and announces it and asks for your help. Nor do they go door to door asking questions unless they are the authorities. I was so busy and having a wonderful time that I hardly noticed anything or anyone except some of the people we became "friends" with for the duration of our voyage. How does anyone know that security didn't go to the room when another passenger called??? I do feel bad for the family, but it sounds like a bunch of nosey passengers upset that they couldn't be a "part" of this horrible newsworthy event.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 12:43:17 AMDid the ship sail on schedule after the investigation? Did NCL have to pospone the next departure of the Pearl? This also may determine how much the FBI knew before the ship docked Sunday morning. If the ship left on time Sunday afternoon, then they felt it wasn't necessary to investigate the stateroom or ship in detail.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 01:56:44 AMMy husband and I were on the Norwegian Pearl at the time of Jennifer's disappearance. We first heard of the incident by watching Fox News on the TV in our room. We asked members of the crew about it and they wouldn't say anything. We did not hear her name paged, nor have a picture shown to us, asking if we had seen her. Quite the opposite, they absolutely did not want to talk about it. I did talk to someone who said they heard a lady screaming "Stop hitting me", and they called security, but were not aware of security responding.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 02:01:18 AMMore musings... I am thinking about this case so much and can't believe more people haven't popped out of the woodwork yet. Where are the passengers who heard the argument, if that was truth and not rumor? What about the passengers that had personal interactions with the couple? What about his and her closest friends who have the best odds of "really" knowing about the marriage and them personally. Usually many episodes of domestic abuse occurs before and after an arrest is made. How about previous wives, lovers, etc who could comment on past history? Also, where are the staff that have to know things??? Sure, they may have been told to stay quiet but can you imagine that ALL of them would resist the attention and possible financial compensation for their story/interview? There are always disgruntled employees, or even those who can't keep quiet no matter what. Anyway, these are the people I want to hear from.
Also, I agree with those who said they find it hard to believe that Jennifer would have ended her life without writing about it/leaving a suicide note. Her blog entries in my opinion clearly show she has a need to share her life, desires, opinions and feelings. In fact she would apologize when she would have what might be perceived as negative emotions/reactions. From the limited info we have I just can't see her intentionally commiting suicide without a plan and letter unless she very openly and assertively spoke her mind and feelings to her husband and possibly even mother. Afterall, she even planned ahead, prepared for, and discussed her New Year's trip, which was complete with being packed and ready to leave once she returned home. Sure doesn't seem like something someone who went on the ship with a plan to commit suicide would do.
I did see where a family member (a brother I believe)said she had been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. If that diagnosis is true and accurate then that could throw a wrench in things. Individuals with bipolar have a very high suicide rate when compared to other mental disorders and typical individuals. However, I did not see the extreme ups and downs that are typical of persons with bipolar. As someone else said, and many others commented on, she clearly had an outgoing, robust and dynamic personality in person and in writing. But although I saw small dips into some anxiety, stress, sadness, and so on.. I saw nothing that resembled the extreme can't get out of bed lows that are common w/bipolar. However, one symptom she had that is common w/the mania phase of bipolar is insomnia. Typically though once the depression side of the disorder kicks in the person is confined to bed and unable to function. Close family, friends, employers, etc would know. Even those with excellent therapy, medication, etc require constant supervision and modifications to their tx and rx protocols so well controlled bipolar is hard to hide.
I also believe that bipolar is WAY overdiagnosed in our country, just as ADD was before that. I have insomnia most nights, struggle with depression at times, and had a psychologist tell me she was so convinced I had bipolar that she would stake her license on it. In order to convince me of this she had a co-tx session with a leading psych in the area who within 15 minutes agreed that I did NOT meet the criteria for bipolar. I knew I didn't because I read extensively on it and never have had the euphoria and manic phases. In addition I bet every other friend I discussed this with said they had been told that they might have bipolar too. Sorry for the tangent that is not even relevant.
I would like clarification from someone, anyone in the know on several things reported thus far.
1) What time was the "Not so Newlywed" game over?
2) What time did the tape show someone going overboard? Originally it was reported at 2am I think, and then corrected to 8pm I believe. I would be more inclined to believe a suicide attempt (from anyone) at a later time such as 2am. At 8pm there are lots of things still going on and therefore a lot of people to possibly intervene.
3) I thought infared cameras only showed images in white? If so wouldn't it be impossible to know what color robe or gown she was wearing? And if it was clear enough to tell it was a nightgown or robe, wouldn't they be able to tell if there was someone behind her, holding her, pushing her, tossing her, etc?
4) I would have to believe that the cruise line had to have viewed the tape prior to contacting the Coast Guard, or else they would have surely made more of an effort to make sure she wasn't in danger, victim of crime, etc. I would hope they would not neglect the safety of the other passengers. But it seems clear that the passengers were not questioned nor that the claimed comprehensive search of the entire ship occurred as has been reported. To me the only reason they would not have had a complete search is if they knew she went overboard. I am hoping that the image from the tape was conclusive enough that they already know what happened in general and brought the FBI in to build the case. It would also explain why the Coast Guard and Mexican Navy ceased searching when reportedly it was still possible for her to be alive.
My most recent theory is that Jennifer and her husband went back to the room and got into an argument. They were hyped from the alcohol and the game show. At some point things got out of hand and after being knocked unconscious, or perhaps as she lay dead or dying he planned what to do w/her body knowing that none of the recent similar "overboard" deaths led to conviction. Afterall, it's not like he could say she left the room since cameras would have that somewhere. So the only way he could possibly hide what had happened was to throw her over in hopes that it would be viewed as a suicide. Or who knows he may have been so mad at her from something that after she showered, put on her robe or nightgown possibly feeling the effects of too much alcohol, the game, possible argument, or in preparation to get ready to go out elsewhere on the ship for more fun. He could have made a drink with medication to knock her out or maybe even enough that would resemble an overdose if her body were somehow recovered. In this scenario you could even understand how if mom came in and saw her daughter and he told her Jennifer commited suicide and produced empty prescription bottles, etc. that she may have agreed with throwing her overboard. Maybe the arguing overheard was her mom and hubby, not Jennifer??? Maybe they were arguing about what to do with her. Maybe he was telling mom how they would be suspected and how it could impact their lives, etc. And how since she really did commit suicide (wink) that the best and easiest thing to do would be to make sure it would look like a suicide. Sure would make more sense to me that mom and the family came back and made the she jumped statement.
Then again it could be that mom saw the tape where it clearly shows Jennifer jumping off the balcony alone but isn't to comment yet??? Still wouldn't explain the bag of coins and casually going gambling hours after reporting her missing tho!!!
Hopefully we can all get some real answers soon and find out what really happened so Jennifer can rest in peace.
P.S. To the person that seemed to suggest they may have had an accident while having sex on the balcony, that seems impossible to me. If she were sitting on the rail he could not have reached her unless standing in the chair and then I am not sure given his height. But who would do that? And if she were bending over she couldn't have done so over the rail unless they were in the chair and again not sure it would be doable. Maybe my mind isn't creative enough for that scenario =).
Everyone have a very happy and SAFE New Year's Eve!!!!
Posted 12/31/2008 at 04:06:34 AMI was the one who mentioned the whoopie on the balcony, but I did so to bring up the point that the husband is the one who said this during the game show, not Jennifer. People who watched the game show said he appeared to be pretty inebriated. I am just saying it's a clue........he may have said it intentionally to throw people off about what was to come later, like it might be an "excuse" or to prove that Jennifer was into danger or something.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 10:40:22 AMAs for the passengers being accused of being "nosy neighbors", well, guess what folks, it's those nosy neighbors who are often the ones who help police solve horrendous crimes, every little bit of information helps.
A passenger said last night that the "all call" for Jennifer was heard by her sometime around 3 or 4 a.m. so it's no surprise that most of the passengers did not hear it as they would have been asleep.
Personally I don't think there is enough on that video, which by the way they said was 8:08 p.m., it shows body heat and movement but I don't think much else. I think if it had been enough to solve this mystery we would have already known about it. So that just leaves conjecture.
I just can't wrap my mind around the fact Jennifer's family was ready to call it a suicide before the investigation had really even gotten underway. I find that suspicious. The only thing that would have convinced me if it were my daughter would have been a handwritten note that I was sure was written by my daughter, or possibly prior threats of suicide which I don't think happened. Bipolar??? Just not enough in my book to close this case.
I suspect two things are going on with this mother, either she is afraid of this husband if she rats him out, or she has been offered a substantial sum of money to "put it behind her".
Native Texan, you are every other comment. I'm sorry for the things that have happened to you but they do not necessarily reflect directly on this situation. In fact, no one here knows what happened and all are merely speculating. One other thing, can anyone spell disgusting right?
Posted 12/31/2008 at 12:26:41 PMSo interesting how we think regulation could change this. So many calls to better regulate the cruise industry.
If she jumped, or husband pushed (both reasonable outcomes), what sort of regulation would have prevented this?
I would love to see all those folks shouting about coverups, dangerous cruiselines, etc. answer that!
Posted 12/31/2008 at 01:16:18 PMJ Bird, last time I checked the first admendment was still in effect. How about instead of taking pot shots at each other, we focus on the real issue which is what I was doing to begin with. We all have our own opinion and take on this situation and all should be welcome. You are not the moderator here. If Steve thinks I am overstepping my bounds, I will respectfully bow out of this blog.
Posted 12/31/2008 at 02:48:59 PMI thought the call for jennifer was at 7am the next morning, not 3am. And I dont think its unusual for someone not to leave a suicide note, even though she is a writer. Most of her writings are about happy, informative things, she rarely if ever talked about her dark thoughts in public.
The fact that her mom shared the room with them leads me to believe it was a suicide. Ray had no time to do anything to her much less pick her up at his weight.
Posted 01/01/2009 at 10:43:24 AMSome of you people are flat-out nosey and out of line. I cannot believe the amount of time dedicated to continuously adding new thoughts to this blog by the same people. We just completed a cruise on a competitor line (not NCL) with our five children and a total of 23 family members. Would we have wanted the remainder of our vacation shadowed by an announcement by the ship staff informing us of such a tragedy? NO! We would have been fearful and more cautious, worried and preoccupied about the situation --- and yet utterly uninvolved and unable to help at all. NCL had a duty and obligation to preserve a happy vacation experience for its other passengers and not sully it UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES that it has the most comprehensive surveillance system of all the cruise lines and had undoubtedly adequately assessed the situation. Some of you people are ***obsessing*** about this, psychoanalyzing someone you don't know or his/her blogs/game answers and fabricating gossip for which none of you are qualified. It's pathetic, really. I'd take my family on any NCL ship any day. Please, focus your energy on something more construction and positive --- like feeding the hungry, who die daily on the streets across this nation without any of you taking notice or speaking out against the atrocity! Incidentally, I dare any of you to find a mug shot of someone who DOESN'T look scary! Yep, his looks like a typical mug shot. That does not mean he killed his wife eight months later. I'm not defending him, but neither am I jumping to conclusions. It is a disgrace that we Americans are so quick to point blame at *the one with the deepest pockets*: NCL. How many of you have contacted an attorney to see if you can sue NCL for ruining your vacation because it "failed to inform" you of the situation? I bet the majority has (or at least has considered it.) I urge you to reassess your motives in this vicious assassination of NCL's character!!! (Oh, I work in the legal profession and you don't have a leg to stand on so you can just put that nasty thought out of your mind!)
Posted 01/01/2009 at 11:34:39 AMHello??????????? Maybe that's why they call this blog True Crime Report....... As I said before, thank God for the nosey people, they help put rapists, murderers and thieves behind bars. Since you work in law you are probably aware of how many have been have been caught by crimestopper tip lines, you know, the ones that the nosey people call. And apparently some major news reporters are happy for us too, otherwise they wouldn't have been on here asking us for information.
Posted 01/01/2009 at 12:24:15 PMI was also a passenger on the NCL Pearl and this still feels like a movie to me. My brother and his girfriend joined me and my boyfriend on this cruise and on the afternoon of the tragedy, saw the Seitzs in Cozumel. Ray was absolutely trashed. He was loud and cursing "why does everyone have to *uck with the drunk guy." It appeared that his wife was "carrying" him back to the ship. Interresting to read that he and her mother had issues with Jennifer's alcohol consumption. So....do you get back on the boat and pass out for the 8 hours that your wife is missing or do you get into a fight because you are so intoxicated and your judgement is impaired. That begs the questions Does Jennifer realize ths is my life and jump or does a completely intoxicated husband batter his wife to the point of death and toss her body overboard. The not so newly wed gameshow tape also prooves excessive alcohol consumption was apparent as one of the questions was "If you could change any one thing about your wife for only 24 hours what would it be?" Ray was not quick to answer....he kept repeating how much he absolutely loves his perfect wife...a cover? Jennifer's response lacked tact as she yelled out "tits" in leiu of "larger breasts". I later learned (although not from a primary source) that the cruise director, Linda, was concerned about how the couple would answer the questions and was rumored to state that she wanted to punch?!?! him for his actions. Sadly, it cae as no surprise when we learned on the beach in the Bahamas from fellow passengers that it was Ray's wife who was missing. By the time we tendered back to the ship we had learned the cabin number and other details. The staff that I asked about the "disappearace" of a passenger did no say "no comment"...instead they responded "o you heard that too" or "im not sure if it is true". I asked a staff member at the Blue Lagoon (an eatery) who told me that he was uncertain of the truth of the rumor but that usually staff would assemble to discuss details. On a side note, it s not this incident alone that makes me doubt the security of the NCL ship. On that same evening, I witnessed a 17 year boy who had just punch a painting on the ship get confronted by security. Three NCL officials detained and were question the child (WHO WAS INTOXICATED AT AGE 17). They eventually handcuffed him. He cried hat the cuffs were too tight. They then removed the cuffs and the boy ran up a flight of stairs dragging all three security officials behind him. This went on for way too long until a waiter grabbed the boys hand off a railing throwing off his balance until the security could get him back down the stairs. Once he made it to the bottom, his sneaker fell off and they stopped restraining him to place the shoe back on his foot!!!! WHAT?!?!?! So, I agree that it is our business when clearly NCL staff is not properly trained on how to handle potentially violent situations...this was a 17 year old not a grown man already guilty of domestic abuse.
Posted 01/01/2009 at 07:19:42 PMThis is a true crime BLOG and how dare you tell others what to be concerned about, what to write about, and how to think. If you don't like it too bad!
Posted 01/01/2009 at 09:06:30 PMRe; Chris O's post...
I would like to address some of the things Chris wrote. I will quote and respond in kind.
"Some of you people are flat-out nosey and out of line."
Consider yourself nosey too Chris. You obviously sought out and read this blog, and it's related comments. I would think that any attorney would pride themselves in being nosey. Afterall, isn't investigating (nibbing), analyzing, and putting the pieces together the most critical aspect of an attorney's job? How can you formulate an adequate prosecution or defense without being nosey?
"Some of you people are ***obsessing*** about this, psychoanalyzing someone you don't know or his/her blogs/game answers and fabricating gossip for which none of you are qualified. It's pathetic, really..."
How would you know what our qualifications are? I don't see where we listed our professional designations. And would it be too far off to consider that perhaps you may have been doing a little obsessing and psychoanalyzing of your own? You did search for information on this case or you would have not found us. And you analyzed some of us as pathetic. Just some food for thought...
"...Please, focus your energy on something more construction and positive --- like feeding the hungry, who die daily on the streets across this nation without any of you taking notice or speaking out against the atrocity!"
More psychoanalyzing Chris... more hypocrisy. How do you know that we are negative citizens without affiliation to humanitarian causes? Please go back and read your comments and you will see that you were not very positive or constructive.
In closing, I hope that you never read this Chris. I hope you are far to busy advocating for, and feeding the homeless. Although I appreciate that you took the time to come and help us see how pathetic, and apathetic we are, I personally would prefer that you spend your time and energy on the homeless, or other worthy causes.
Happy New Year everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 01/02/2009 at 08:14:08 AMYou go, Beverly! And as for using our time and energy for more humanitarian causes, let's see.........I am a fulltime public school teacher, an active participant in the Gulf Coast Big Brothers and Big Sisters, active in local politics, a member of several environmental activist organizations, a member of my local Catholic church, and the SPCA. Yep, that pretty much makes me a busybody!
Posted 01/02/2009 at 04:16:05 PMHi everyone,
This is a true crime blog....so in my opinion...anything goes on here that people want to write. I've cruised several times. There have been public announcements when children have gone missing. I think different cruise lines follow different policies. Frankly, I believe cruise lines have the obligation to inform their passengers of any type of danger. However, if I'm cruising, I'm on vacation. A criminal act is the responsibility of the ship to manage. It should not be announced to the entire ship and frankly...people go on vacation to relax...not to be informed of every tragedy or problem on board. Each situation is different....if I saw someone go overboard...I would want the ship to assist with the rescue and saving their life. But otherwise, I wouldn't want to have a criminal investigation mar my vacation. NCL does have an obligation to conduct a thorough investigation of passengers who came into contact with the deceased. Now as for the who-dunnit?? After reading everyone's blog on here... I think the husband was abusive...that he did not kill his wife directly...but he (drove) her to suicide and was sick enough to not feel morose about her death as he showed in the casino.
Posted 01/02/2009 at 10:54:31 PMJust couldn't get out of my mind what "on the boat" talked about earlier. So if you abuse art on the ship they are going to track you down, tackle and handcuff you. If you abuse your wife and potentially caused her death, you are allowed to roam the ship at will. I really wish the wife had left his sorry drunk ass in Mexico instead of helping him back to the ship, just my opinion. And I also hope he's reading this blog. He could even be contributing for all we know.
Posted 01/03/2009 at 10:41:55 AMSince this blog started two more people have gone off of cruise ships. I think one was an accident, the other we don't know. I still say there has to be something that can be done technology wise to lower the overboard numbers.
I was on the ship and disagree with the fact that Norwegian didn't hanlde the situation properly. Norwegian is not my favorite line by any means, but come on, do you really think they should have announced this tragedy to the passengers onboard? Also, as a former cruise line executive, these things happen all the time - the only thing that's changed recently is the frequency of incidents being reported. This is not rare.
Posted 01/03/2009 at 05:33:26 PMWhen it comes to luxury vacations, appearances are everything. While it is not up to NCL to immediately inform everyone on the ship as to what had happened with all the details, I believe they could have found a way to communicate to the rest of the passengers that there was a passenger missing. The middle of the night all call apparently was heard by very few.
Posted 01/03/2009 at 06:57:30 PMBy communicating nothing whatsoever, it gives the appearance to the paying passengers that there is a coverup attempt going on, that NCL is more concerned about their own PR than the safety of the passengers.
As a cruise ship passenger I remember that there was all sorts of communication going on within the ship in the form of flyers, closed circuit tv in-room advertisements, announcements, etc., of special events, shore excursions, special sales, etc. When something bad happens to one passenger aboard a ship, it affects everyone, and if they have to find out about it "on the street" so to speak and not from the cruise line, it is very unsettling.
I work in the public schools. When something happens that could possibly affect all students such as a communicable disease, an abduction attempt, or anything that the parents would want to know there is written notification sent home to every parent and now there is "all call" where you receive an automated call at your home from the district's communication director announcing the news. When those parents have to hear about something potentially dangerous that could affect their child on the street and not from us, you better believe we get bitched out big time, and threatened with lawsuits.
This is really no different.
This is just a thought...I recently went on an NCL Cruise to Mexico. It was a full moon and the moon made a really beautiful reflection on the water. My husband was in the bathroom an I was standing on the balcony. I had an irrisitable urge to jump overboard..I am not suicidal. I mean the drop to the water with the reflection made me want to jump overboard in a way I can't describe. Nothing at all to do with killing myself. When my husband came out of the bathroom, I told him about these feelings and told him had I been a drinker I may have succumbed to the feeling if I had had a couple drinks. I mentioned it to my mom when I came home and she said she had the same feeling when she went to the top of the Empire State Building many years ago.
What I'm saying, is maybe she wasn't suicidal, per say, but having had too many drinks had these same feelings overcome her????
Anyone else ever have this experience??
Posted 01/03/2009 at 07:14:13 PMJust to add to my previous post...my husband said if I hadn't been in the room when he got out of the bathroom..he would have assumed I went to the Internet Cafe...which I did quite often. How long would it have been until he truly missed me??? May have been morning since he would have gone straight to sleep.
Also, to clarify the feeling I had...I actually had a euphoric feeling and my pulse rate went up. I could feel my heart beating faster. It was very unreal but real at the same time. I actually hoisted myself up a little....this is no joke! I am not a good drunk so would definitely have either jumped or lost my balance. And I was in my pajamas...no thoughts about the outcome..only the overwhelming feeling. The tropical balmy air added to the feeling.
Posted 01/03/2009 at 07:37:59 PMWell ive worked on the pearl and several other cruise lines. I have been on ships where people have gone missing either by going overboard, missed the ship or hiding out in another cabin.
Anyway you can be assured that just because the public knew nothing of it that nothing was done to investigate.
you would be amazed that the lengths all ships go to to keep this sort of thing from the public onboard. it just hinders the invesigation. Too many do gooders suddenly have info.that really has no relevance, secondly it overshadows and disrupts the rest of the cruise with rumours and speculation that the crew would not be allowed to comment on anyway.
Just because the passengers are not in teh loop does not mean that investigation was not going on.
Trust me on this one. I know what I speak of.
Posted 01/04/2009 at 12:16:47 AMMy question is why should the cruise lines get a pass on this? Witness what happened on an airliner recently. A whole family of 9 got kicked off of a plane and AirTran refused to let them fly any of their jets. These people were not even on a no fly list. Their conversations about safety seemed to make passengers nervous. The pilot decided that the safety, comfort, and peace of mind of the passengers was MORE important than PR. I wasn't there so I can't make judgements about what was said or not said.
Posted 01/04/2009 at 12:59:07 PMI don't agree that informing the passengers hinders the investigation. Why do we issue an Amber alert to the entire nation when a child goes missing? Because information is needed to solve the crime. Eyewitnesses, ear witnesses, somebody who might be able to help solve the crime and find the missing person. Sometimes it turns out the child has run off with a friend or relative. Other times it is worse news. But we don't NOT inform because too many people might get involved. NCL made it appear that the main focus was on NOT letting people have knowledge of the issue and keeping things quiet rather than solving the missing person dilemma. When you put procedure above people after you take the people's money you are going to get flack.
Native Texan: for the sake of argument, just how much information is a cruise line obligated to disseminate? If this had been a suicide by pills or other clear cut manor, do you feel that they would have had the same need to let other passengers know about specific details to ease their minds?
Also, how do you draw the line where an individual's right to confidentiality and a group's right to peace of mind meets?
Posted 01/04/2009 at 07:29:02 PMGreenback,
Posted 01/04/2009 at 10:17:19 PMThe fact is, the woman was missing and nobody knew where she was or why she went missing. She could have been anywhere on the ship, therefore, others needed to be alerted to the fact she was missing. You read waterboy's post that people have even hidden out in other people's cabins. There was only a half hearted effort to inform that came in a middle of the night "all call" for Jennifer, and that was it. I'm not saying that NCL was obliged to give out all the details of the disappearance. But clearly, you saw the reaction of many of the passengers upon finding out about her disappearance on CNN and from shore to ship phone calls by concerned relatives of the passengers as opposed to finding out from NCL. It was not just the people on the ship that became involved. The passengers' family members back home were worried as well.
I believe more chaos was caused by not informing the passengers.
I´m getting slightly pissed off with all the people here thinking that they are supercops or something. And why is it only in USA that you have to profit from something like this (lawsuit). I worked as a Security Officer on one of the NCL ships and i know the the senior officers onboard as well. There are steps to take in situations like this and i can asure you that telling everyone onboard is NOT one of them. The reason it seems like nothing is happening is because you don´t want to panic the other passengers, you do a call for the person and then a silent search. You can´t go shouting MOB if you don´t know, however, as soon as the missing person is reported the bridge is notifed and they mark the position on the charts just in case, then they wake the captain to inform him and reduse speed. Coastguard and police are informed right away and the silent search goes on. So for all you people thinking that nothing has been done by the security and crew on the Pearl, all i can say is, I hope that the next time someone ends up like this, leave it to the trained people and don´t try to act like a hero from a movie. And by the way, most of the security officers are well respected brittish police officers and military, so don´t think they don´t know what they are doing.
Posted 01/05/2009 at 07:26:11 PMNative Texan - I wasn't trying to be argumentative, and actually just generalizing. What would be the best way, in your opinion, that this could have been handled? And if it turns out that this indeed was a suicide, do you feel that the victim's family's right to privacy is justifiable collateral damage?
Posted 01/05/2009 at 09:38:28 PMWell, Greenback, we will never know will we? Suicide is pretty hard to prove when there is no body.
Posted 01/05/2009 at 10:54:20 PMOf course if it was suicide, and a body was found, no need to alert anyone, no need for anyone but the immediate family to know.
Absent a body, I think her name and photo should have been given to the other passengers, just as in any other missing persons case. Qfter all, quite alot of the passengers had already met her, and some had even already speculated that she was the one missing!
You have to give people some credit, many of the passsengers felt that the secrecy was a coverup attempt.
Appearances are everything. There are probably alot of people who will never go on a cruise again because of this.
And there are others who will continue to go despite what happened.
It's all in the perception.
For all of the folks defending NCL's "search" of the ship after my cousin Jennifer was reported missing, I have one question:
How can comprehensive can a search be, when it doesn't include any of the passengers' cabins?
To follow up: I can see that the cabins might've been searched later (by housekeeping), but that eliminates the "comprehensive" part, because a person intent on hiding could quite likely evade the searchers, especially if that person knew where the security cameras were located.
I'm not saying that's what Jen did (honestly, I'm not sure she was that sharp), but if a "comprehensive" search of the ship skips a significant portion of the hiding places, what other partial truths have we been told?
Posted 01/06/2009 at 08:15:35 AMHi there nurbles.
Posted 01/06/2009 at 10:24:39 AMFirst i would like to say that i´m sorry for your loss.
I have spoken with the Pearl today and asked directly about the search and if something went wrong or if they "skipped" something. The thing is: If a passenger is reported missing you ask in what state the person was, for example can she stand up right, is the person on meds, etc. With that in mind it´s highly unlikely she would sneak into a strangers cabin WITHOUT A KEYCARD and then pass out in a locker. And even if someone actually managed to do this i would hope that the owner of the cabin would notice, would´nt you? The thing is, the passengers who do this "hiding" stunt don´t want to be found. This was not the case here. All areas were searched wether you think so or not and that is a FACT. And to the rest of the people here complaining about the not being included to help. The law prohibits civilans to interfere with these matters, so stop acting like you are MISS MARPLE.
Hi there nurbles.
Posted 01/06/2009 at 10:25:05 AMFirst i would like to say that i´m sorry for your loss.
I have spoken with the Pearl today and asked directly about the search and if something went wrong or if they "skipped" something. The thing is: If a passenger is reported missing you ask in what state the person was, for example can she stand up right, is the person on meds, etc. With that in mind it´s highly unlikely she would sneak into a strangers cabin WITHOUT A KEYCARD and then pass out in a locker. And even if someone actually managed to do this i would hope that the owner of the cabin would notice, would´nt you? The thing is, the passengers who do this "hiding" stunt don´t want to be found. This was not the case here. All areas were searched wether you think so or not and that is a FACT. And to the rest of the people here complaining about the not being included to help. The law prohibits civilans to interfere with these matters, so stop acting like you are MISS MARPLE.
Nurbles,
Posted 01/06/2009 at 11:20:40 AMMy heartfelt condolences to you in the loss of your cousin. If at all possible, would you share with us what you think may have happened to her?
Steve---
Posted 01/07/2009 at 10:47:57 PMThis is private, not meant to be posted. I won't say anything publicly but I think this person claiming to be Jennifer's cousin is a complete phony, as well as the person saying he "talked to the Pearl" today.
Just my two cents.
I did not know Jennifer but I know a hundred Jennifers. I see this behavior over and over and over. This is my impression of why/how this happened. When you are an obese person, you have a food addiction. If you do not deal with the addiction, you will be apt to do a few different things when you have weight loss surgery. Usually the first is cross addict to something different like alcohol or pills. If you read Jennifer's blog you will see where she talked about it. When you have 2 former weight loss people, you have two addicts and it seems he reportedly drank as well. For the weight loss patient alcohol can get you in big trouble. It also looks like Jennnifer had started to gain some weight back and that again is one of the situations that causes us to reach even deeper for a coping mechanism because we have "failed" again. Jennifer and Ray met in a support group (they mention each other in their blogs) and they were both married to someone else. This is also common with the weight loss patient that hasn't dealt with addiction because many think that a new relationship will be yet another "high". We go from the high of losing weight and when that stops we have to find another or deal with the addiction. I suspect they were both very drunk and when you are that intoxicated and have been arguing about it, you can always get to the point where you go into the sad drunk and start thinking "what have I got to live for?". I have seen so many women get to this point without alcohol because they did not learn to deal with the addiction. Gaining the weight back is so debilitating and unless you've been in these shoes, it is hard for many to understand. I was one of the lucky ones. You can Google weight loss surgery and suicide and get some info. I hope this helps some. My heart goes out to her because all of us that have lived with obesity are just wanting to be normal and accepted.
Posted 01/08/2009 at 08:38:02 PMThank you for that, weight loss veteran, it was very informative and insightful. Still, I am afraid this is one mystery that will never be solved.
Posted 01/09/2009 at 07:59:56 PMAnother disturbing thing about weight is that so many of our young children today are having the same problems. The schools have even had to take over and change rules and policies regarding meals in the school, what can and cannot be sold. Our school is now using only whole wheat breads for rolls, hamburger buns, etc. Soft drink machines have been taken out of most schools. The physical education time requirements have been doubled.
But one piece of news lately was bothersome. Ever since the FDA required all packaged food manufacturers to label all food sold with calorie contents, fats, sugars, etc.,
the obesity rate has GONE UP NOT DOWN. So we have to ask ourselves how do we get a handle on this epidemic? Of course we have to make lifestyle changes but I think we as a society have got to stop our obsession with weight and with food. It has just gotten completely out of control.
We are bombarded daily with fad diet commercials, anorexic model adoration, and society's in general intolerance of imperfection. I am middle aged and I do not for the life of me remember anything like this going on 20 or 30 years ago. We have practically turned weight into a commodity to be traded on the open market. People are making fortunes off of other people's misery, and alot of them are selling snake oil. Our values have gone completely backwards and upside down. It's no wonder people like Jennifer turn to alcohol for some type of relief. They are talked into this lap band surgery, great, then they lose weight, but after that if they start gaining back any weight it all, they spiral into a depression and fear of regression and self loathing takes over their life.
This is a lifetime rollercoaster than no child, teen, woman or man needs to have to be on.
whats the lastest on this case? I just heard about this today from a co worker and WOW? I have been on seceral cruises and I LOVE the water. This would be a peaceful place to end your life if you were having the thoughts. I myself have never had those. Has her family made a comment? why was it not revealed that her mother was onboard and in the same room on the news? just wondering
Posted 01/14/2009 at 12:12:50 PMHas anyone heard whether there was ever any memorial service/funeral for this woman? I suppose you can't have a funeral without some kind of remains, but you can certainly have a memorial service, haven't heard of a thing.
Posted 01/22/2009 at 02:03:30 PMHas anyone heard any updates on this case?
Posted 01/23/2009 at 10:31:28 AMThis is not about Jennifer but it is related. Does anyone remember that several days after Jennifer went overboard a woman fell 100 ft off a hotel balcony at a Marriott hotel at Disney World?
Posted 01/24/2009 at 09:17:04 AMHer boyfriend was arrested yesterday in connection with her death.
I tell you, it's open season on women and children. We are going to have to lobby and enact much tougher laws to deal with people who commit these crimes.
There are many who are considering getting crimes against women reclassified as hate crimes. I am inclined to agree. Women are being singled out everywhere and targeted, disappearing in huge numbers, turning up dead, and 9 times out of 10 it is the spouse or significant other who has done the crime.
ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Recently returned from cruising on "The Pearl". Had a balcony stateroom. I'm 5'9", balcony railing was almost armpit high to me. To go over, you would either have to jump off a balcony chair (e.g., climb onto something that got you closer to railing height), pull yourself up onto the railing with your hands/arms and then fall over, or have someone "help" you over the side. Would seem nearly impossible (except for a particularly tall individual) to accidently go over the railing.
Posted 04/01/2009 at 06:07:53 PM