Teen strangled, slit 9-year-old's throat
UPDATE: Detectives find a load of child and incest porn at Burrell Mohler Sr.'s home. See update after the jump...![]()
Patriarch and pervert Burrell Mohler Sr. apparently introduced his four boys to pedophilia
Beginning in 1988, police believe 77-year-old Burrell Edward Mohler Sr. started raping the young boys and girls in his extended family. Over time, it seems he also introduced his four sons to pedophilia, and they forced the kids to even have sex with dogs.
All all five men are now charged with raping at least five children under the age of 12. Police are searching property outside Bates City, Missouri, looking for notes the victims buried in glass jars over the years -- and also searching for bodies...
Prosecutors contend that four girls and one boy in the family were raped between 1988 and 1995, though the assaults could have gone on longer. The victim who first alerted police said she was forced to get an abortion at age 11 and that she and her sisters were involved in mock wedding She also said all five Mohlers used the family German shepherd to rape her.
The alarming serial rape accusations first came to light when one of the victims informed detectives in August. Five victims have been identified, but that number could grow. The search also implies that police believe the Mohler men killed and buried people on their property.![]()
Burrell Mohler Jr. and his brothers are accused of forcing the kids to have sex with their German Shepherd
ceremonies before the men would have sex with them.
Over the years, the victims say they buried glass jars in the yard with notes explaining what was happening to them. Police are now searching for those jars, and using cadaver sniffing dogs to check for bodies. ![]()
One victim says Jared Mohler and his brothers held mock wedding ceremonies before they'd rape the kids
For the moment, the Mohlers are charged with multiple counts of child rape. They include Burrell Edward Mohler Sr., of Independence, Missouri; Burrell Edward Mohler Jr., 53, of Independence; Jared Leroy Mohler, 48, of Columbia, David A. Mohler, 52, of Lamoni, Iowa, and Roland Neil Mohler, 47, of Bates City. More charges are likely to be added.
David Mohler has worked for Graceland University in Iowa for 27 years, says university President John Sellars. He was arrested on campus, where he apparently worked on the phone system. Sellars described Mohler's wife Michelle as "shocked and stunned." The couple has two grown children.
UPDATE: Police are currently searching property in Lafayatte County, Missouri with cadaver dogs and backhoes to look for bodies and jars containing notes the victims buried over the years.
"There have been indications that an individual was killed, or individuals were killed," Lafayatte County Sheriff Kerrick Alumbaugh told Fox4KC-TV. "There has been an indication that there are body or bodies in numerous locations."![]()
The kids were lined up on a bed and sodomized/David Mohler
During their years of abuse, the kids were encouraged by the Mohlers to write down their bad thoughts and put them in a jar because it would make their memories go away. While it may have made for more placid victims at the time, it would now prove a treasure trove of evidence if those jars can be found.
The woman who first came forward with the accusations, now 26, says she was forced to have an abortion at age 11 and also watched her brother abused. She and her four sisters were also made to participate in mock weddings where they put flowers in their hair and wore dresses before marrying the Mohlers.
After hers, she was taken to a chicken coop by Mohler Sr. to have sex. In other instances, the woman and her sisters would be lined up on their knees on a bed and sodomized.![]()
Roland Mohler and his brothers told the girls to burying their bad thoughts and they would go away
It's unknown if other relatives knew about the abuse. Some of the Mohler boys are married, but Burrell Sr.'s wife Alice died in 1991, three years have the molestation is thought to have began. A former neighbor says the Mohlers moved away about a decade ago from the property now being searched. Detectives believe he sold the property to Burrell Jr. at that time.
Three of the men -- Burrell Sr., David and Jared -- are lay ministers in The Community of Christ, a Mormon splinter group. One was registered to work with children. But a church spokeswoman says all three have had their licenses yanked.
UPDATE II: A sixth man, 55-year-old Larry Kidd of Kansas City, as been arrested in the case.
Though police aren't saying how Kidd participated in the rapes, the investigation is expanding to include more victims. The initial victims mentioned were five girls and one boy, all from the same family. But police have apparently found more, though they haven't said whether they were related to the Mohlers or not.
Kidd is charged with raping a child under age 14.
It looks like detectives are a long way from wrapping up their case. They're still searching for one or more bodies possibly buried on the Mohler family land, and they seem certain more victims will surface.
"I believe that there is, and I believe every investigator here, after seeing the evidence, believes there's more victims," Lafayette County Sheriff Kerrick Alumbaugh told CNN. "Pedophiles don't stop at one."
Larry Kidd was released 24 hours after he was arrested. He says he never even met any members of the Mohler family and that it was likely a mistake because he knows one of the victims. Detectives are no longer looking at him as a suspect.
UPDATE III: Burrell Sr.'s brother, Darrel Wayne Mohler, was arrested on two counts of rape in Florida.![]()
Darrel Wayne Mohler says he hasn't even seen his brother in 20 years
He's accused raping two girls between the ages of 5 and 9 at an abandoned home in Bates City, Missouri. But he seems genuinely surprised to be targeted in the case.
The retired Navy man, electrical contractor and prison guard, now 72, has lived in Silver Springs, Florida since 1984, four years before the crimes are alleged to have begun. He also says he and Burrell Sr. grew apart, and haven't seen each other in 20 years. Aside from the occasional phone call, he has almost no contact with the other accused men in his family.
As for the rape charges, he seems genuinely befuddled. "If I was there long enough to rape them (the children), I would've known about it," he told the Ocala Star-Banner. "I've no contact with him or his family."
UPDATE IV: Three of Burrell Mohler Jr.'s kids say they helped him murder a man in 1988.
It would seem that this case couldn't get any more outrageous, but it just has. Three children of Burrell Mohler Jr. now say they helped their dad kill a man in 1988. According to search warrants, the slaying went down like this:
In April 1988, Burrell Jr. and the three kids -- who are now in their 20s and 30s -- drove to Independence Center, Missouri where they followed a man to his home. Burrell Jr. told them to tell the man he was having a heart attack and that they needed his help.
When the man got to the car, Mohler supposedly choked him into submission. Then he blindfolded the kids so they couldn't see where they were going and drove to Burrell Sr.'s home. One of the girls peeked and recognized their grandpa's signature A-frame house.
Burrell Jr. gave the girls knives and told them to attack the man when he set him free. If they refused, he warned, he would kill them. After a brief struggle, they all stabbed the man. Burrell Jr. then ordered them to dig a grave and bury him.
Though the case is getting more outlandish by the day -- leading some readers to suspect it's fabricated -- police seem to be gathering more evidence and witnesses to back the stories.
Another victim now says she was held hostage at Burrell Sr.'s farm, where she twice became pregnant. After her first birth, she says Burrell Sr. and Jr. put the baby in a box and buried it in the dirt basement floor, then covered it with concrete. Using radar, detectives have found a shape consistent with a box there.
And that woman's story is backed up by yet another victim, who recalls seeing a child living in a crawl space in the cellar. Police have already found bones of unknown origin, a pair of glasses, and some of the jars the girls buried with notes inside supposedly detailing their abuse.
UPDATE V: Police uncover a load of child and incest porn in Burrell Mohler Sr.'s home.
Yes, the story that couldn't possibly get weirder just has again. In a November 10 search allowed by Burrell Sr.'s wife Sandra, detectives hit the mother lode of child and incest porn his basement living area.
Sandra says that when she discovered her 77-year-old husband's porn stash, she forced him to move into the basement. But during the past few months she's searched Burrell Sr.'s room twice, finding piles of porn showing naked young girls and references to incest, so she locked it in a filing cabinet in her room.
Police found videos and magazines that appeared to show kids under age 17. The magazines had titles like "Family Taboo," "Best of Family Touch," and "X Family Matters," with articles about incest. There were also movies like "Mystery Voyeur" and "Pornochio," in addition to a penis pump and dildos.
Home movies were also seized, but police haven't revealed the contents.







Freaking Pitcairn Island.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 05:47:23 PMI WISH I COULD WATCH WHAT THEY DO TO THEM IN PRISON. I HOPE A BIG NIGGER WITH THE BIGGEST DICK RAPES THESE BASTERDS. NO OFENCE BLACK PEOPLE.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 06:21:33 PMOk Querty... are you from PA???? I don't think that comment makes sense to anyone but locals.
& Steven, really you couldn't think of a better comment?
Posted 11/11/2009 at 06:25:52 PMCia,
Posted 11/11/2009 at 06:38:52 PMPicairn Island was where the mutineers from the Bounty settled a few centuries ago. There was a big trial there (written up in a number of publications) a few years ago because apparently the menfolk were running amok raping young girls mostly at adolescence. There was some controversy because not all the young girls believed that they had been raped. But some certainly did experience it that way. It was a small island and it was hard to elude your predators indefinitely. But the practice had gone on for centuries, with young boys sort of being raised into the culture by older boys or men. It split the island.
Reading this story immediately made me think of that one, although many might disagree that drawing a connection between the two was warranted.
I hope to God that no one was murdered by these men.
I think steven A should think before he types!!!!!!!! What a jerk.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 07:22:27 PMI TOTALY AGREE WITH STEVEN! THEY DESERVE NOTHING BUT THE WORST. COME ON PEOPLE!
Posted 11/11/2009 at 07:58:03 PMAnd these 5 SOB's will get a day in court for what to once again torture their victims again! I have to think that capital punishment has gotten way to lenient did the victums of this vial act get to choose if the should be attacked "NO." So why in the hell should these monsters be given anything different. if the evidence shows that they did it and the their proof beyond a shadow of a doubt then just a $.32 bullet for each is all they should be afforded.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 07:58:08 PMThe kicker from another newswebsite states:
"Three of the five men arrested are lay ministers in the Community of Christ church whose licenses have been suspended, church spokeswoman Linda L. Booth said."
Posted 11/11/2009 at 07:59:37 PMSteven hopefully your educated and next time can use a better choice of words!! How sad!!
Posted 11/11/2009 at 09:03:18 PMMelissa - SERIOUSLY!? Is that your solution to everything bad and evil in this world? That a RELIGION is to blame???? DO NOT TRY TO FIND SOMETHING for these SICK, DISGUSTING, EVIL, MALICIOUS, wackos to hide behind - especially not a religion. A persons claim to a religion has nothing to do w/their decisions to CHOOSE to perform EVIL, horrible acts against humanity. YOU WANT SOMEONE/SOMETHING to blame???? BLAME THE sick basta$%s that raped their innocent children!!!! Don't try to find A freaking EXCUSE for them!!!
Posted 11/11/2009 at 09:17:56 PMLOL Melissa. I was expecting someone to blame a religion eventually (as I do with every story nowadays).
Now I just pray to *my* God that Sas O Fras isn't being serious either >.>
As for the men: I hope they burn in intense, justifying fire. What disgusting people.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 09:29:09 PMhappily they will get what's coming to them... in this life and the next. God will not let someone that harms children get away with this. They will burn in the darkest pit of hell.
Posted 11/11/2009 at 09:35:17 PMQuerty - totally agree with the Pitcairn Island analogy. Maybe CIA should do some background research before criticizing completely valid comments like yours.
Melissa - there would be absolutely no reason for this article to state the religion of these men as it should not (ideally) influence the final sentencing. You write as if this is the most important detail. I think you need to get your priorities in order.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 12:04:43 AMThis story doesn’t pass the sniff test. Memory repression? Abortion at 11 years old? Bodies buried everywhere? This accuser sounds crazy - like the nutty accuser in the McMartin preschool fiasco.
One thing we all know is that sexual predators never stop abusing; they have an insatiable lifelong addition for more. Sounds like these men have clean records and nice families.
5 bucks sez that police find no jars and no bodies.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 12:40:41 AMSteven A is likely a spammer who wants to get people to email him so he can send you spam or sell your address, don't email him...
Posted 11/12/2009 at 01:11:42 AMSometimes the religion is important to the story. Like this one. The Community of Christ church, known from 1872 to 2001 as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS). They believe in polygamy and child marriage. The number of moral outrages performed in the name of religion is, and has been for thousands of years, truly disgusting. Carthagian child sacrifice, Aztec adult sacrifice, I ccould go on for pages. Conclusion? some religion - good ; extreme beliefs - bad.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 02:53:03 AMDa60sman, the RLDS never believed in polygamy. They were founded by the first wife of Joseph Smith Jr.'s followers. and Emma was always opposed for polygamy. The faction that condemned spiritual marriage stayed in the Midwest with emma and Joseph III. It's the FLDS who are polygamists.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 03:35:10 AM@bugmore - i guess you don't really know how horrible people can be- especially pedofilic raping perverts. it does not sound that 'crazy' because crazier has happened a hundred times over. i find it comical that women are always pronounced' crazy' as soon as they make a charge. you obviously have no idea what is would be like to go through something like that- and if you did- you would understand that repression is the ONLY way most would survive it. and even if it isn't true- BE SURE there are many things like this actually happening. Don't be so quick to dismiss what you don't understand- unless you been a victim of abuse you can't even fathom the reality of it.
also -clean records mean squat. the best criminals and pedofiles keep clean and hide behind religion/jobs, volunteering/ family , piousness and all sorts of things so they are above suspicion. Money, job, church, age, - know NO boundaries when it come to pedofilia. You are correct- they never stop at one. They just get better at hiding it!
As for Steve A's comment above- I don't think he meant to be so crass or put down anyone black - i think he was outraged and using a black man because of the stereotype that they have big 'johnsons' cut him some slack- at least he is outraged and vocal about it- instead of disbelieving and putting his head in the sand, as so many do. This is the WHY and HOW so many pedofiles are successful.
As for religion- what does that matter- a child raper is a child raper doesn't matter why, how, who ,when or where- OR what religion come into play.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 03:35:40 AMSomehow this is all Obama's fault.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 08:34:20 AMMelissa,,Yer jokin,right? Who in their right mind would even think so much as to blame a religion for actions of crazy people, murderers, or pedifiles. Or anybody else for that matter. That's just stupid,Unless ofcorse yer livin in what was it,,colonial times? Where they had religious wars and stuff? I'm not sure what time period it was, but i'm sure somebody will set me streight on it.
Also,God rest the souls of those victoms,If what these men are accused of really did what is told about them.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 08:51:24 AMI took Melissa's comment as sarcastic.
Jess, I didn't take Cia's comment as critical, just more like asking me to explain, or telling me that others might need an explanation.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 10:15:44 AMI Think steven is right cause they shouldent be raping animals or humans where was the mother when all of this was going on how could and why did the father do that to the kids couldnt they say no and run away from their father
Posted 11/12/2009 at 10:29:01 AMIt's crazy to imagine religion concerns this story. In Belgium, it'll be inimaginable... Guys, don't get everything (all) mixed...
And Steven A, you're seriously obscene and your comments is full of appalling prejudices.
Sorry for my bad english...
Sandy (Brussels)
Posted 11/12/2009 at 10:42:48 AMto Nasty ppl who said, "couldnt they say no and run away from their father": They were children. I was abused by my father as a child and was told that it was my fault that he did those things. How could I possibly leave my family? Go out and get a job? I couldn't tell any adult what was happening because I had no way of knowing that it WASN'T my fault. Get real. They were children. All they know is what's going on in their own lives, not what is normal for the rest of the world.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 10:58:31 AMSTEVE A. - What is your problem? Are you that ignorant? Here you are defending someone and wanting justice for victims. You comment how offended you are by these disgusing acts of ignorance but in the same sentence, you yourself are expressing yourself in a disgusting and ignorant manner??? Then you have the nerve to say no offense black people...so right there you admit that you refer black people to the "N" word. What a joke, you just made a fool of yourself. If your proud of your racism, well I feel for you and may God take pity on you and your harsh, cruel and ignorant judgements. I'm sure you use the "N" word on a regular basis and your one of those people who say "some" black people are "N" words not all of them...what a small minded, uneducated, ignorant, inconsiderate, bucket of Sh*t! Hell, you're probably related to those backwards, backwoods child molesters...sounds like you are on the same page as they are...consider your feeling and only your feelings regardless if its right or wrong and regardless if it hurts others. You disgust me. Go educate yourself and do some soul searching. Your a disgrace to this country and to mankind!
Posted 11/12/2009 at 11:03:38 AMThis is off the subject but it's a shame someone has to post such ignorant and disrespectful comments using racial slurs...which takes away from the situation at hand...which is cruel, sick, evil people hurting children, thier own children. What the hell!?
Posted 11/12/2009 at 12:15:21 PMI would like to comment on Steve A's remarks. You must educate yourself. If you have children it's a form of abuse to subject them to racism or to misguide them to beleive that hate and disrespect for people different than they are, is acceptable because it's not. Another stereotype you and another comment mentioned was that black men have large penis'- does this mean that white men would have small penis'...no! This is just a stereotype. I have been intimate with both white and black men, I'm 35 and have been with a total of 7 men my entire life (married two of them) and each man was different, some were large some were normal and one was small (poor guy) but it varied, it had nothing to do with the race of the man. So please give me a break, give other people a break and give yourself a break. Please educate yourself, open your mind and heart. You must must must base people on the individual. Period!
Ok everyone, I'm pretty sure Melissa was being sarcastic as it is common for posters on this website to blame religion or the lack there of for people's bad behavior. I have to give her props for still having a sense of humor as I can see that others do not.
In addition, I don't think Steve A was trying to be racist. Uneducated on the subject matter of "endowment", maybe, but racist, that comment was not. At least it probably wasn't meant to be.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 12:37:05 PMThough Steven A's comment was out of line, I think its a bit riddiculous for so many people to be outraged by a stupid comment yet not really commenting on the matter on hand. I think the incest molestation, and possible murders, is worse, no?
Posted 11/12/2009 at 01:44:01 PMMormons, LDS- People, beware of them! They are a freaking Cult and a deceiver. They like using the title of "Christ" in their church names to deceive and seduce. Be smart!
Posted 11/12/2009 at 03:40:55 PMYou ignorants hate bashers! Why are you still commenting on Steven A's comment??? Get over it! I agree with Gina. This is stupid to continue to badger him. I know what is going on. You are all soooo scared about the word so when its typed up there, you fear someone will kick your a$$ or sue you so you have to be the big, bad one to tell this person who is boss. Idiot. I don't use the word and I am tired of hearing you idiots repeat the mention of it.
I hope these men get what is coming to them. I hope this site wouldn't post something that is not true and only speculation. I don't see how they could have been arrested without any kind of proof. How could they do those things? That is horrible and so nasty. To share your juices with your brothers, father and babies?? Sick sick sick...
Posted 11/12/2009 at 04:10:03 PMWell, for me - the most twisted parts of this entire story is the glass jars and the mock weddings.
It's like they were trying to legitimize what they were doing to these children. Sick.
IF they find the glass jars as evidence, that is. If they don't, I'll be harder to convict them.
Ugh, living in KCMO doesn't help the creepyness factor. To close, just TO DAMN CLOSE.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 05:15:18 PMI really wonder how they could have used a German shepherd to rape someone? I'm actually scared to find out. I also find it hard to believe that the father just started his sick behavior as recently as 1988. He would have been in his 50s back then, and I somehow suspect that he began having sex with children at a MUCH younger age. Who knows? He may have even started on his own sons. If bodies are found on the property, I hope the sons-of-bitches get the death penalty.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 07:55:13 PMI agree with Rachel. (maybe it's because we share a name) The jars are really strange and creepy. The jars and weddings are sort of like "gentleman rapist" type things--in this case gentleman incest rapists.
And, for a whole family of men to do this to multiple kids...it's almost like they thought they had to (like a religious obligation--I'm not blaming religion, just saying they may have viewed it as some sort of obligation to justify it to themselves) and they felt bad and wanted to help the kids get through it. That being said, it's not an excuse, and I'd love to see each and every one of them fry, even if they felt bad AND there is no murder or bodies or any proof of any crime that traditionally leads to the death penalty. I'd throw the switch myself. But, I don't believe that a criminal gene is so dominating to be passed on to EVERY male child a guy has. I suspect there's some deeper pathology here than just a family of 5 genetically f-ed up nutcase child-raping a**holes. In short, there's a back story. This family has to have been screwed up for much longer and in many different ways than just this.
Or, maybe it's all just wishful thinking on my part. I really don't want to believe that five guys could fool everyone they know for decades.
But, did anyone else notice that all the sons have beards and there's a computer expert in the bunch? I'm just saying. Psychologically, facial hair indicates that someone is hiding something (not always!) and there are a disproportionate number of computer experts among the child molesting crowd.
I don't claim anything I say is true or fact. Just putting it out there for discussion.
Anyway, done now... :)
p.s. I'm also a lifelong Missouri resident. We aren't all hicks and banjo playing extras from deliverance. I swear! The smartest man in the America lives here. :) http://www.kmbc.com/news/13223999/detail.html
Posted 11/12/2009 at 09:50:43 PMThis is totally out there and inhumane.
There should be a public hearing for these creatures. And if found guilty, there should be a public hanging where they should all be stripped naked and hanged by their ‘balls’ on the biggest tree in their respective neighborhood for all to see. Have them on display while they are being devoured by ants and worms.
Let the message be crystal clear.
Posted 11/12/2009 at 10:05:47 PMQuote "Mormons, LDS- People, beware of them! They are a freaking Cult and a deceiver. They like using the title of "Christ" in their church names to deceive and seduce. Be smart!"
The person that wrote this is a hateful individual. Did you not read the entire story Rowey? These weren't Mormon/LDS, these were people that OFF-shooted from the Mormons/LDS. In stupid terms that means they are an entirely differently religion and have been since the 1800s (please read wikipedia or go check CNN for details).
It is absolutely WRONG to HATE on Mormons just because of this happened in some other religion. While I agree that yes, religion does have a big thing to do with why these freaks did what they did...I don't agree with hating on THEIR religion or the LDS religion. There ARE good people out there from BOTH religions, hell even some good Catholics out there.
Why don't you save your breath and go hate on something else. Religion has nothing to do with what they did, personal choices does.
And before anyone tries to guess, I am a part of neither religion mentioned.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 03:05:40 AMvictim100000000 "-clean records mean squat. the best criminals and pedofiles keep clean and hide behind religion/jobs, volunteering/family, piousness and all sorts of things so they are above suspicion."
You are so right. Does anyone remember BTK? Dennis Rader who murdered 10 people in Kansas was a veteran, held a college degree, was a Cub Scout leader, and a high-ranking member of his church. He fooled his community and his own wife for 30 years with his "clean" record. Clean record only means they never got caught, it does not imply innocence.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 10:15:43 AMOK anyone using the N word is offensive to me. I'm black and I dont care if your Black, white, brown or whatever. When the word is used its like a fire bomb. You don't call people racial names! How simple can it be?
You can make a point without. If u can't make your point without dropping a racial slur then your just ignorant. People making excuses for that behavior are covering their own butts because they probaby speak like that at home or their parents do. Get real and grow up. This is 2009 not 1959!! People should be over this stuff by now. I see America still has a long way to go. There are too many mixed race people in America and all over the world. Including our President! and my unborn child.
Anyhoo...I think there are lurkers everywhere. You don't need a criminal record to be a criminal or a child molester. A child can be assaulted by force by using a dog. Look it up on the internet. Its sad in this world of ours and I really hope my child can avoid all this nonsense and feel safe.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 11:54:30 AMWHERE ARE/WERE THEIR MOTHERS????
HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THAT THESE MAY BE THE BODIES THEY ARE LOOKING FOR????
I am just speculating...but if that could be the case...as there has been NO mention of women in this family...that these children were scared for their lives.
These men are what we call MUTANTS!
They will get what they deserve!
Posted 11/13/2009 at 12:17:26 PMSo, I'm really interested in everyone's opinions. AWESOME....NO!!
I grew up in Bates City and know these people. I went to churce with them. Yes, I'm the same religion and guess what I don't wanna rape children, kill people, or have kids do dirty things with animals! Guess what else, I'm not an insane crazy person!! I know, shocking since we're the same religion and from the same town and went to the same high school and all.
In fact, you would think everyone who went to every store they frequented or even the poor people who live on their road or the people who live down the street from their churce were crazy baby rapists the way you guys talk.
Commenting on one of the last posts on here regarding BTK being a Cub Scout leader and very involved in his church. Ummm according to most people's logic on here regarding their religion, IF you follow that logic, all Cub Scout leaders are crazy people and teach people to rape and kill since that's what Mr. BTK did.
Hmmmm doesn't seem very logical when you put it that way. Although if it is true I'm sure as hell staying away from the Scouts organization.
Be realistic. I don't know if they did what this lady/these people are claiming. I do know there is no physical evidence at this point. I also know that this small town of Bates City is shaken. Everyone is shocked because everyone knew these people. It's scary. They were nice people (or seemed to be).
I don't really care what you think of them. But don't insult others that were unlucky enough to be associated with them in one way or another.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 01:19:27 PMFirst of all. RLDS is not an off-shoot of the Mormon Church, the Mormon church is an off-shoot of them. this was decided in a court of law over a 100 years ago. Joseph Smith never advocated polygamy and not because of Emma either. Because it is just plain wrong.
These are evil men who just happened to belong to a certain religion. Just like the Catholics, Methodists, Baptists. What is outrageous is that it happened at all. No matter who is involved or where they go to church, this is a nasty mess.
Every day, we hear about murders, rapes, and atrocities. Most of the time, religious preferences are not even mentioned. there are only two words to describe this sad,horrible event.
Jesus Wept.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 01:28:42 PMLBC: Since you're from this small town...Where are the women in this family?
Posted 11/13/2009 at 01:54:59 PMThe ex-wife of the 26 yr old commented to local news basically that she was going to get revenge. Apparently she was around when this all happened. The oldest, Burrell's 1st wife passed away. He is now remarried and has been married for the last 4 years. I haven't seen anything in the reports regarding his current wife. I only know of Burrell's wives and the one ex-wife. His sons were several years older than me and I don't know if they were ever married.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 02:11:34 PMThat first sentence should have said the ex-wife of the 26 yr old's father...
Posted 11/13/2009 at 02:12:17 PMSad very sad.....that's all I can say. How can men do those kinds of things? It just sickens me thinking what those children had to go through. My prayer goes to all those children, that they may be able to find comfort and peace.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 03:21:47 PMI think everyone needs to sit back and wait until they find something. The story seems so extreme. I do remember the daycare witch trials of the 80's that ruined people's lives. All these comments sounds like a lynch mob mentality. I don't believe it at this time. I need to hear more "facts" which is how I found with website. Unfortunately all I found were people who may need some help with anger issues.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 05:42:03 PMBianca...as the saying goes..."where there is smoke...there is fire".
Posted 11/13/2009 at 06:16:05 PMI will say- it obvious by comments not many of you are 'victims' to be so doubtful that things like this happen- Bianca- etc...
Things like this and worse and they happen and no one want to believe or hear or think about it- best to say its not real. YES sometime people make up stories for revenge or attention- but you can't really understand unless you have been though it. AND there are TONs of weirdos out there that do stuff like this and worse. I know , I am a victim and I can tell you - I suffered similar things @ the hands of my father. GRoss, horrible things. So be prepared for more ugliness- if not with these men- then others. You just aren't aware of how sick some people can be.
AS for- @shesays comments- on the mark. You can't just RUN AWAY from your pervert father- first you ARE A CHILD you rely on your 'parents' to take are of you. And IF there is a mother- most times she is being abused, threaten or is too dumb or scared to help OR can't prove or get help in the legal system- because of the DOUBTING minds most 'outsiders' have.
I could have been saved YEARS of abuse if it weren't for those who said- 'but he goes to church, he's a nice man, we've know him for years'.
So don;t think you know ANYBODY that well. My father also molested tons of other children and had a DAY CARE CENTER. His friends, family , the legal system and people like some on here - who doubt and dismiss the allegations and my mothers crys to help me- stuck up for him.
You can't understand- it is not a simple as saying ' hey my dad is molesting me- I want to move away' I am always disgusted to hear how little people in general support the abused- instead they are doubted, and persecuted- and you wonder why no one wants to speak up!!?? ( same goes for rape victims) this is all the more hard for male victims- the stigma is a heavy load for a child. And then you are also made to feel bad, dirty or somehow at fault. IT all sucks. I never spoke up for all these reasons and more- FEAR- of him, the public denial and the fact I would be the one getting doubted and then ostracized and , the fact I loved my father and was confused by the dynamics- he was supossed to love and protect me???
Don't be so quick to judge. And as i said even if this case is not legit- believe me there are thousands of kids being molested under your nose - most are just too closed minded and afraid to see it.
shesays said:
to Nasty ppl who said, "couldnt they say no and run away from their father": They were children. I was abused by my father as a child and was told that it was my fault that he did those things. How could I possibly leave my family? Go out and get a job? I couldn't tell any adult what was happening because I had no way of knowing that it WASN'T my fault. Get real. They were children. All they know is what's going on in their own lives, not what is normal for the rest of the world. (so true- i didn't know what was normal until i was around other children and normal families- and my father tried to keep us on a farm and out of school so he could control what we learned )
This stuff is real people - it is happening to many children and you need to wise up to make it stop. Stronger laws and death to pedofiles IMO
Posted 11/13/2009 at 06:26:26 PMVictim,
Bianca was wrong to use the word "all", but not wrong in saying that there have in the past been false accusations and witch-trials regarding daycare or child molestation. Would you rather be a person who has endured child molestation or a person who has been falsely accused of it? Convicted?
As to death to pedophiles, it's hard not to agree with that feeling, but remember that a pedophile is more likely to kill his victim to destroy the evidence of/witness to his crime if leaving the victim alive does not lessen the consequences he is risking to himself. Likewise, if the abuser is a "loved one" of the victim, the victim may be that much more reluctant to report what is happening to them if they understand that it could mean the death of the abuser. Victims are sometimes very conflicted about the person who is harming them.
I'm really sorry about what you have lived through -- I hope you are a little more recovered with every day/year that passes, and I hope you have ability to avoid bad people in adult life who might be able to keep your pain and suffering fresh.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 09:14:22 PMRepressed memories worry me. The list of suspects keeps
getting larger. I too wonder if false memories may be a factor, but the first victims siblings are saying it happened to them also.
If murder did occur the children were probably terrified to tell.
I saw a news reel of a man who said his son was also a victim. He explained that his ex-wife married into this family. He said the mother of the 6 children called him in tears and warned him that his son may be in danger. He eventually did get custody of his son. I don't know if he went to police at that time.
Whatever the case, this is a truly shocking story. I still wonder how so many people could be involved in this big of a cover up. I also wonder why they would have the kids write what was done to them, wouldn't they try not to incriminate themselves. I guess they may have dug up the jars after the children burried them.
I was under the impression that the property no longer belongs to the family and is around 50 acres. Is it farmland? If it is farmland was it ever plowed? I would think the next owner would notice these jars if they were left behind.
I wonder if there is more info the police are keeping from the press. I hope they are 100% sure these guys are guilty before they allowed them to be shown on tv or even their names be exposed to the media. What a mess. I hope the victims are able to heal. Its just so sad.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 10:34:41 PMThese allegations are disgusting. Anyone who bothers to look at their mugshots knows these scumbags are guilty. Recovered memories are rock solid proof of their guilt. Even if they don't find glass jars and dead babies doesn't mean these sickos didn't do it. Nothing beats an old fashioned witch burning. If I had my way there would be no trial. Just assemble a mob, string these guys up and burn their wives at the stake even if no physical evidence...just to be on the safe side.
Posted 11/13/2009 at 11:48:23 PMpsst, Pete!
It's Lafayette, as in the marquis de Lafayette.
"Lafayatte" is a common typo found, for example, in the www.fox4kc.com and www.kansascity.com articles concerning Mohler.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 01:04:45 AMRemember the McMartin preschool trials?
Panic based on virtually nonexistent evidence led to YEARS during which arrests were made, YEARS of investigations, followed by YEARS of trials.
For what?
For exactly ZERO convictions. A witch hunt of epic proportion (with bizarre accusations of child/animal sexual encounters for what that's worth.)
Missouri is known as the "Show Me State."
Posted 11/14/2009 at 01:55:31 AMThese defendants deserve their day in court where REAL, CONCRETE evidence is shown.
All rapists, especially children rapists, should die in a long long agony as their victims' life will continue in pain.
Gaga from Italy
Posted 11/14/2009 at 05:36:56 AMmay these filthy child rapists burn in Hell for this. They need to be beaten, sodomized, raped, and beheaded.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 02:14:45 PMNot to rain on everyone's parade, but has it occurred to you that these guys might...just MIGHT...be innocent of the crimes they're accused of?
This sounds waaaaay too much like the hysterical and unfounded cases that cropped up back in the '80s and '90s.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 03:18:28 PM@qwerty- i'd rather be neither. but i'm not talking about death to random people who 'might' be guilty where there is not obvious proof- i'm saying if it is undeniable ( durragard) then they should be dissolved. Look at the stats on repeat offenders. if there is doubt then sentence from there. no one wants to be accused when innocent- but that small ration is not as horrifiying allowing room for molesting children. . And AGAIN- there are many many cases where there is NO doubt of guilt- these monsters do not deserve to live- they ruin / take lives. I m doing quite well considering most in my position- kill themselves, do drugs and hurt themselves their whole lives because it is something that NEVER leaves you. you can heal only so much, but it is always a part of who you are- and its no picnic.
As for trying to say death as punishment would make them kill their victims- HELLO- they are killing the victims all the time and if not literally figuratively. Harsher the penalty the less likely to do it. AND if we get rid of the offenders that ARE guilty or quit letting anyone who does these crimes back out on the streets maybe we'd lessen the number of cases moving forward. They are not fixable- the urge never leaves them- they only hide it better. You really have no idea how manipulative this kind of perp is.....control is one of the main basis of WHY they choose children.
And honestly - I probably would have been more likely to tell if I knew my father would get death and never be able to touch me again- cause even though I had conflict feeling of protecting him and loving him, my FEAR of him hurting me was worse. If I knew he couldn't get me- I may have been more motivated to help myself. He was the monster from my dreams , but he was real -and I couldn't escape him.
I do appreciate your wish for me not to run into anyone who would keep my pain fresh- that and your wish for me to heal- it is very thoughtful and appreciated. And you point put something that has caused me difficulty- avoiding people who exacerbate my suffering. good wish thanks ;)
"I hope you are a little more recovered with every day/year that passes, and I hope you have ability to avoid bad people in adult life who might be able to keep your pain and suffering fresh."
I can tell you- that even IF these men didn't do this- there is someone out there who is doing these same kind of horrible, tormenting, disgusting things to a child- you'd be surprised- the sooner people face it and get it out in the open - the more children will be saved.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 03:20:51 PMThey arrested a 6th person today, Sr.'s brother....I really do not know anything about the religion LDS, mormon,whatever so I will not comment about that, but if these allegations are true, this is one sick family!
Posted 11/14/2009 at 04:23:36 PMSeriously, is anyone moderating these comments? There are trolls and spammers crawling all over the place.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 06:58:38 PMThe FLDS are the ORIGINAL VERSION of the LDS
(Mormon Church).
The original mormon cult denounced polygamy ONLY because the government was about to seize all of their temples because the mormons were BREAKING THE LAW.
Posted 11/14/2009 at 10:42:15 PMA friend of mine in high school got pregnant and was afraid to tell her parents. Rather than tell the truth she claimed the boy she'd had sex with raped her. Long story - but it was a while before the truth came out.
The innocent man served 4 years. At the time - I beleived her accusations of rape - we all did? Who would lie about such a thing?
Who inherits the property of the arrested Mohler men? Is it the alleged victims? Where were all the women of this family? Certainly one of these victims had a mother. One of these men lived out of state - are we to assume he drove home once a month to molest his nieces? Has ANYONE of you ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials?????
A lot of people are quick to judge here. Rape and child abuse are the WORST crimes. But what makes you all so sure it happened?
As a woman, I can say anything about any man - and you people would beleive me without hesitation. I could destroy a man's life simply by making accusations. People lie, it happens. You all need to wake up to the reality that sometimes people make things up!
Police are quick to make arrests in cases like this. Friends and family alienate the accused - and say how, "shocked they are!" I did the same thing back in high school when my friend accused a boy of rape. I thought they should have locked him up and thrown away the key.
If the Mohler men ARE guilty, then I hope they get the worst punishment from God and the law...but please people...let's get a little more evidence than the recalled memories of one woman before we hang these men!
We are each all accountable for our actions to the Lord. And we will ALL be judged. Remember that before` you start throwing stones.
Posted 11/15/2009 at 01:00:55 PMTo:Da60sman, You better get your facts straight. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints now known as The Community of Christ does not practice polygamy or child marriage.
Posted 11/15/2009 at 02:23:47 PMBianca - even if it is lacking some evidence at the moment, I would be very worried if this kind of story DID NOT make people angry.
Posted 11/15/2009 at 04:46:41 PMJess: It's not just "lacking some evidence." So far I have yet to see ANY evidence.
Posted 11/15/2009 at 08:19:08 PMI agree with some of the people who want to see more concrete evidence.
I am concerned that after several days of excavating the property, the authorities haven't disclosed any discoveries of jars or human remains.
A non-related man was accused, arrested and then released. I am under the impression he is cleared of any crimes. Then the grandfather's brother was arrested shortly after being interviewed by the press. He said he had not spoken to his brother in over 20 years, and has nothing to do with this family.
Posted 11/16/2009 at 05:56:48 AMIt took over 20 years for this story to be brought out in the open. Did all the victims have repressed memories. Have any of these guys been accused of these type of crimes in their own communities. These type of sickos usually don't stop.
No evidence?
There are 6 eyewitness accounts of rape, who after being interviewed individually provided the same story giving police probable cause.
Truth is, child rape and molestation happens all the time and rarely goes noticed. Most will not report it, when it is reported it doesn't get any follow up, and when it is followed up... the people are not trained to interview children for court and the case is throw out.
Child sexual/physical abuse is 10 times more common than cancer.
It took me 20 years to come forward and disclose about being raped. The person has since moved and is likely still offending. No charges were ever filed.
I find it hard to believe all 6 kids would make up the same story... which is the basis for the arrest warrant. It probably did happen... but when it goes to court, they'll pled to a lesser charge or walk on acquittal due to a lack of physical evidence. If they find the aborted fetus/notes... all the charges will stick.
Posted 11/16/2009 at 12:44:04 PMGary: I find it hard to believe all 6 kids would make up the same story... which is the basis for the arrest warrant.
You never heard of a little something that happened in Salem back in the 17th century?
And it's not kids who are making the allegations. It's adults, all within the same family, making utterly bizarre claims about being forced to have sex with dogs, ritual abuse, etc.
Some evidence other than a pointed finger needs to be offered.
Posted 11/16/2009 at 02:43:07 PMThis makes me sick to my stomache. What the hell is up with savages like these? Where does all this disgusting behaviour originate from?
Posted 11/16/2009 at 03:16:05 PMCastration and Prison..
Lina: Castration and Prison..
And if castration or some other form of sexual mutialion had been practiced in the Kelly Michaels' Wee Care Case? (Kelly Michaels was a preschool teacher convicted and sent to prison in a case involving grotesque accusations rather similar to this one. Her conviction has since been overturned.)
Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" mean nothing to you people?
Posted 11/16/2009 at 03:36:53 PMThis is completely different from the Salem Witch Trials. The psychology of child abuse, polygraph methods, interviewing techniques for victims of trauma etc...
We'll see if half a dozen people can maintain the same story with the same details under oath. Without physical evidence it's one person's word against another.
Besides... with the Salem trials... chances are they actually executed a few real witches.
Posted 11/16/2009 at 06:44:19 PMI am so enraged with these creatures from hell…
Posted 11/17/2009 at 06:05:35 AMso much so, that, even after watching the movie 2012
and capturing the possible eradication of the human
race…I find myself more in horror of such a behavior of this inhumane nature’s existence in our world.
Gary: Besides... with the Salem trials... chances are they actually executed a few real witches.
Oh. Then I guess all those other people they hanged (not to mention that little girl accused of being a "witch" who ended up sitting in prison for over a year and came out of the experience so traumatized and unmanageable her father sued) were no big deal.
And you base this bizarre assumption about "a few real witches" being executed at Salem on....?
Posted 11/17/2009 at 12:43:08 PMPamela... Stick to the topic at hand.
Alleged serial child rape in 2009.
Not Salem Witch trials from 1692.
Forensics have come along way in the last 300 years.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 04:16:42 PMWell, well, here comes the evidence.
"The woman reported she was sexually abused by all five Mohler men and got pregnant twice and one of babies was buried in the basement and then the basement was paved over.
A radar showed that a box-like object was buried underneath the basement floor. The home is no longer owned by Burrell E. Mohler Sr." -KCTV
Posted 11/17/2009 at 04:47:00 PMThe way the stories are building and becoming more outrageous (and beginning from 'recovered memories') reminds me of the McMartin Daycare cases from the late 1980s where kids started with accusations of molestation and ended up with stories of satanic cults, animal and dog sacrifice and other craziness. The whole thing turned out to be hysteria but in the meantime several people spent years in jail and had their business and their lives ruined.
So while I'm encouraged to hear reports that evidence is possibly being discovered that backs up the story, I'm still taking everything with a LOT of salt until the case really takes shape. The minute to minute reporting on big stories these days lets a lot of half truths and rumors get into the narrative that people remember later even when they have been disproved. So I'm willing to wait and see what the "official" case turns out to be before convicting and condemning the men.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 05:12:21 PMTom: Well, well, here comes the evidence.
That's it? That's the "evidence?" A woman tells a story straight out of Lauren Stratford's ravings, and radar shows something that looks kinda like a box under the floor of a house Mohler hasn't been in for twenty years?
Posted 11/17/2009 at 05:33:49 PMGary: Pamela... Stick to the topic at hand. Alleged serial child rape in 2009. Not Salem Witch trials from 1692. Forensics have come along way in the last 300 years.
So far I haven't seen much in the way of "forensics" offered in this case. Just a lot of wild stories and finger pointing.
I gather from this response that you'd like to back away from that insane claim you made that "chances are they actually executed a few real witches" at Salem.
Can't say I blame you. I'd want to disown that comment if I'd made it myself.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 05:37:43 PMPam,
Why are you so adamant about defending accused sex offenders?
Posted 11/17/2009 at 06:36:18 PMYou're right, they're just making all this up for fun. And the police have nothing better to do than to go around and accuse innocent people.
As I previously said before... let's see what the evidence says and then draw our conclusions...
I wouldn't trust the Mohlers with my kids. Feel free to let them babysit yours.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 06:47:08 PMTo point out their religious affiliation is not to BLAME the religion.. but to point out how religion is essentially INEFFECTIVE
Everybody thinks they can just pray their insanity away instead of actually getting real help, and in this case, IF this case is true, these men must have somehow rationalized according to *their* god that whatever they were doing was okay... like so many public figures nowadays..
Posted 11/17/2009 at 06:47:33 PM5 Top Country & Western song titles of all time..
1. Ma, get the hammer there's a fly on Pa,s head.
2. Your the reason our kids are so ugly.
3. If the phone don't ring you know it's me.
4. Get yer tongue outta my mouth, I am kissin ya goodbye.
5. Drop kick me Jesus through the goalpost of life.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 07:24:47 PMI don't believe a word of it. Not a word!
Posted 11/17/2009 at 08:47:50 PMGary: You're right, they're just making all this up for fun.
So the story about forcing a kid to have sex with a dog you believe, the story about kidnapping and murdering a 300 pound man (who oddly enough does not seem to have been reported missing in 1988)you believe, the story about someone being held prisoner in the basement long enough to have been impregnated twice, but for some reason didn't feel fit to mention this to anyone after she was released you believe...
But the idea of adults either fibbing about a family member through personal vindictiveness, or entering into some crackpot form of therapy where lurid "memories" are unearthed... that's just crazy talk. Nope. Never happens...
Gary: And the police have nothing better to do than to go around and accuse innocent people.
Right. The police never, NEVER arrest or accuse innocent people. Just doesn't happen.
Gary: As I previously said before... let's see what the evidence says and then draw our conclusions...
What evidence?
Gary: I wouldn't trust the Mohlers with my kids. Feel free to let them babysit yours.
Why would I let people neither I nor anyone I know ever met in my life babysit the children in my family? I wouldn't trust you with my nieces or nephews either. I don't know you from Adam. That doesn't mean I'll believe every nasty accusation made about you without some sort of evidence.
Posted 11/17/2009 at 09:25:48 PMTom:
I am adamant about defending people who are being publicly smeared and reviled as child molesters based on no solid evidence.
Do you understand the difference?
Posted 11/17/2009 at 09:27:58 PMRelease these men NOW they are innocent until proven guilty BY A COURT OF LAW! I would rather have the Mohler's as a neighbor as you witch hunting radicals!
Posted 11/17/2009 at 09:29:02 PMThese are some sick SOB's! I want them to go to prison for many years and be housed with the general population. Then they can find out what sex abuse is all about!
Posted 11/17/2009 at 09:48:13 PMRob: IF they are guilty of all the charges against them, many years in prison would be appropriate. But please, let's have the trial and let an impartial jury review and judge all the evidence, including physical evidence, first.
Punishing people based on accusations is simply not the American way.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 12:21:49 AMIsn't the shear amount of "evidence" being released interesting?
Don't the police and district attorneys usually keep things somewhat under wraps?
Is there a NEED to try these alleged offenders in the media?
............................................................
I say "evidence" because so far all claims are unsubstantiated by any physical finding.
Why is it that none of the alleged victims (and apparently no one in a position of authority) feel they can wait for due process to try these people?
Posted 11/18/2009 at 12:41:05 AMI agree with Gary, wait until these men are proven guilty or innocent with the forensic proof. Then, if they are guilty, may they rot in hell for eternity.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 11:50:18 AM@ Pamela Troy.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 12:35:16 PMWhy are you so concerned in proclaiming their innocence?
Why would 6+ grown persons make up a story like this, they're not children anymore.
And yes, they do have evidence and are only collecting more.
By the way, I say no! Don't execute them. Let the other men in prison get theirs on them first. I garuntee none of them will last long.
P: Why are you so concerned in proclaiming their innocence?
Because I'm a believer in the principle in American jurisprudence of innocence until proof of guilt, and I've seen little evidence presented so far to back up the wild stories being told about these men.
P: Why would 6+ grown persons make up a story like this, they're not children anymore.
So you find it easy to believe that someone would force two little girls to help him kidnap and murder a 300 pound man (even though there is no record of a man disappearing in that area in the year it was supposed to have taken place) and would hold someone prisoner in his basement long enough to impregnate her twice (without anybody apparently noticing that she was missing and without her notifying the authorities after she was released) -- but not that adults would make outrageous accusations through either vindictiveness or involvement in a crackpot form of therapy that involves "unearthing" supposedly suppressed memories.
P: And yes, they do have evidence and are only collecting more.
We shall see.
P: By the way, I say no! Don't execute them. Let the other men in prison get theirs on them first. I garuntee none of them will last long.
So now you're fantasizing about these men being raped. Think about it a lot do you?
Posted 11/18/2009 at 01:49:04 PMSame Pamela Troy, I presume?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/05/02/24_ordinary.html
If so, this issue does seem to be a passion of yours.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 02:19:34 PMYep. Witch hunts have long fascinated me.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 02:36:54 PMThis Latest Release (information on the pornography found, reported here on Nov 18) actually seems to be where the investigation STARTED.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 04:01:38 PMSo, for what it's worth, the evidence (the original porn stash Mohler's wife brought to police attention) is what began the case.
I'm not going to speculate about what's been found on the home movies--it may be the concrete evidence the police have, after all they've arrested an entire clan. or it could be nothing at all...except an old man's icky porn stash.
WOWOWOWOWOW this is sick. how can people be soooo f***ing DISGUSTING?!?!? i am truely outraged.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 05:38:26 PMPamela, there are so many things you have said which are a) subjective and b)possible to explain in a number of ways. For example, say the woman who has come forward claiming to be held captive knew her kidnappers were aware of where her family lived. If they released her rather than her escaping, OF COURSE there would be threats involved. Utter terror and embarassment is obviously why sexual abuse goes ureported. Breccia makes a good point, though. The police are always privvy to more than what leaks to the media. They often withold some information to ensure a fair trial/impartial jury rather than release the entire file of evidence, at least at first. I think those that defend the accused waste their efforts to remind us that they are innocent until proven guilty, as if we are calling to form a lynch mob. At least I'm not, any less than I support torturing sex crime convicts. I hate it when I hear people say string them up, castrate them, rape them, etc. That's totally ignorant. But there's no harm whatsoever in someone wishing them the longest possible sentence if they are found guilty. We're all on a true crime website gawking at tragedy. Empathizers are no different than those celebrating the defendents' detainment in that sense. I suppose you see yourselves as the watchdogs of the internet, or something, but especially Pamela, even if you are just playing devil's advocate because of your unfaltering dedication to due process, why are you so reluctant to see any correlation between 6 witnesses and a stash of incest and underage porn? It's as if you, likewise, see their innocence as a foregone conclusion.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 07:42:29 PMFascinating that a number of my comments posted within the last 12 hours in regards to ritualistic abuse seem to have magically disappeared. I think the deniers of that phenomenon are a huge part of the problem, and those who focus so much effort on ridiculing the "wild stories" and "hard to believe accusations" are doing more damage than good. That's why people get away with this stuff - no one wants to believe something so horrific! But don't bury your head in the sand, this is a very real problem. Defend our system of due process, by all means, but please, let's have more realistic dialogue about the fact that ritualistic abuse DOES exist and DOES happen, and that it is usually tied to satanism. You can't keep quoting the McMartin case ad nauseum and use that to downplay or ignore the entire issue. With relgions that promote a "Do What Thou Wilt" philosophy, especially, there is a total indoctrination of sexual abuse. Or perhaps these individuals truly were adherents to the LDS, and their interest in staged illegitimate wedding ceremonies, penetration with sharp objects and bestiality are their own personal brand of family recreation. What often happens, though, is a christian ideology is used as a personal cover to disguise something more sinister. That's often the m.o. of satanic cults, but it is very tricky to reveal. Sometimes a satanic cult operates in total secrecy, and other times it's more blatant but sugar-coated to not include any twisted behavior. It's also very interesting that among the deleted posts were Pamela's admission that she knew people acquainted with Michael Aquino and her statement that she was aware of he and his associates' distortions of the truth and the way they post misleading rebuttals about themselves. I thought that was a valuable contribution to the ritual abuse undertones to these alleged crimes, that juxtaposition of a loose association and her disagreeing with Aquino's politics and philosophy.
Posted 11/18/2009 at 08:08:23 PMAt this point - you people are beyond hope. You are so willing to judge, to hate, to sentence to die.
Do you know these men?
Do you know these victims?
Who among you knows the truth of this?
These accusations are beyond bizzare. Maybe they are true. Maybe they are lies. You will never know...neither will I. What we will know is our own judgement.
Child molestation is the very worst crime. NO excuse can ever allow for it. Perpetrators will burn in hell for all time. But you are not the one to make that decision.
You are not omnipotent. You are NOT all knowing. Protect your family. Protect your children. Teach them right from wrong. Teach them about goodness and hope. Stop all this hatred.
You DON"T know if these men are guilty or innocent....you are judging them based on feelings and emotions.
Where would you stand if you died today? How would you answer to your God??
Leave this matter to the police and courts....
Posted 11/19/2009 at 02:10:27 AMDear Pamela Troy,
You're trying too hard.
Here's a quote that helps me get by. I wasn't able to cut/paste so I had to re-copy. My spelling might be off by a word or two but it should be accurate....hope it helps
"A long time ago, humans had saber-toothed tigers to worry about. There wasn't any need for conflict amongst the tribes with an enemey so perverse and evil as a giant cat with 6-inch fangs. Then one day the tigers were extinct, and suddenly 'war' was born.
Without the common enemy of the big cats, people turned on each other. In later years the enemy became Jews, Christians, Witches, or Communists. Today it is sex offenders.
In every case, it is an evil demon who stalks your children in the darkness of night. Sex offenders are real - and they are dangerous - but they aren't around every corner. Neither were saber toothed tigers, or Christians, or witches. But you can't get elected unless you have an enemy to DISTRACT YOUR ELECTORATE FROM THE REAL ISSUES and so - we always need a war on drugs, or terror, or bumblebees, or whatever it is that our society decides is evil at the time.
Remember - law is temporary, and so is society. Once, New York City was part of the Netherlands, then it was England - today it is America. But 10,000 years ago it was just a big piece of ice. In 200 years, it will be something else. You can't change people; they need something/someone to blame for their troubles. All you can do is be accountable to yourself. If you can take responsibility for yourself - then you truly live."....Scott E. Lacy 2008
That's one of my fav quotes. I have more from Lacy and other people if you're interested. But in the short term...give up. You can't change the minds of these people. They NEED to hate the Mohler family. It's not about truth or justice, it's about their own inadequecies.
You're right about Salem, but it goes much deaper than that. This is a fundamental construct of the scapegoat principle. White slavery, rapes in central park, devil worship...the list goes on. The "witch hunt" is an important aspect of human culture and society. It's a classic "us versus them" issue.
I admire your efforts, but you failed from day one. It doesn't matter whether the Mohler men are sex offenders. All that matters is that people want to beleive they are guilty - and in believeing it; their own problems seem momentarily less traumatic.
One day - maybe, there will be more people like you and me. Today, we have to stick with the Inquisition that is American justice....sorry...
Posted 11/19/2009 at 02:42:05 AMHuh? tough call. I mean, this girl is evil to the bone! But I have to sort of agree with the above comment. Are we ready to take away the next 60+ years of her life? She can't even drive yet! I don't know what to do with her. Can't let her go free - can't keep her locked up forever. Darned tricky situation. Does anyone know anyting about the constitution? Does that say anything about this type of thing?
Posted 11/19/2009 at 03:28:58 AMIgnore my comments, I put them on the wrong board! oops!
Posted 11/19/2009 at 03:30:30 AMSure, maybe you're right. There is no such thing as satanic ritual abuse. These men who collect incest porn and whose own daughters and son are willing to ruin the rest of their lives are probably just getting a bad rap. No, we are not jumping to conclusions based on emotions, we are hearing the eyewitness acounts and confiscated evidence. People, this is a true crime website, and we are all here gawking at the same tragedy. We are not jeopardizing their due process or calling for a lynch mob, we are speculating out that all signs lead to guilt, and that is totally within our rights and admissible in this context. Save your relgious babble, silly, irrelevant historical analogies and psychoanalysis about how we need enemies and we are the ones with problems. With accusations so bizarre, the MUST be false, right? That kind of thing couldn't actually go on, could it? Let me bury my head back in the sand and maybe it will go away.
Posted 11/19/2009 at 08:17:38 PMI'M 21 YRS OLD AND IF YOU DONT KNOW BETWEEN RIGHT & WRONG THEN YOU NEED HELP.. THEY SHOULD ALL BE PUNISHED.. THE WORST, BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS FOR THE VICTIMS TO BE HEARD..
Posted 11/20/2009 at 04:31:10 AMlike in most abuse cases, this is a learned behavior. and it seems like this one goes back quite a ways
Posted 11/20/2009 at 01:44:17 PMHey J- your previous posts (and Pamela's) didn't disappear-they were in another thread (as were my previous posts). It was the "degenerative gene" thread. And Sandra- have you checked your local child sex offender registry? I live in a very nice neighborhood... and I have a convicted pedophile around the corner. You might be surprised how many corners they actually are around! Does that mean these guys are guilty? No, of course not. Do I think that there will be evidence presented at a trial that we have no business seeing at this juncture? Yes I do. And I am sad for my own daughters and for future generations to know that we are coming full circle back to reviling the people who are the accusers in these instances.
Posted 11/20/2009 at 01:45:52 PM