Jamar Pinkney Sr. Executes 15-Year-Old Son Accused of Molestation

That poor woman.

Wow Justin you must be white and that would be your way to handle things. If it was a little blonde hair blue eyed lil boy i think your opinion would be slightly different. and you must not be a parent so MY opinion is to not have any and if you do i hope hes big enough to kick your ass!

You are right amber a white kid would be just learning and growing up while a blak one is in training.
You need to say my first name and last name together real
fast, twice, to get my point.

Here's a thought: most molesters were victims themselves at some point. So who is a potential candidate for having previously victimized the 15 year old? Maybe dad wasn't acting out of anger but self-preservation...

This assumes, of course that 1) the story is true as reported and 2) the accusation against the 15 year old had any basis in fact, since the boy was killed before any investigation could be done, let alone trial.

This story has completely stunned me. At first I didn't know how to react to it. I am now completely disgusted at the pure evil this father has. That was his CHILD, his flesh and blood, his son. And he treated him like a stranger. Not even sure if what was said to him was fact, he humiliated and killed him. This is tragic. The mother did right by telling the father what was said to her. In her mind it was his kids and he had the right to know what was being accused. He, on the other hand, needs the punishment he gave to his son. That poor child.

And the sister, I wonder how she must feel. What if what she was saying was just a little fib? She is only 3, little kids say a lot of nonsense. She probably didn't know what she was really accusing him of doing. It was probably something harmless.

This story has bothered me, and has made me sick to my stomach.

It is so sad that your missing parents didn't do a better job at raising your sorry ass. It is true you are Justin igger

I agree w. you Karen. He's pathetic. This story is unbelievable...

Justin,

Go play in traffic. Rid the world of your nonsense.

Love,

Jen

WOW! I am shocked that someone would do this to their own kid. It seems to be happening more and more these days, but everytime I hear about something like this it upsets me more and more.

This has nothing to do with race...so those of you leaving racist comments leave that stuff to yourself. The important thing is here why? Now we have another mother without her son, behind some heinous act. The fact that the 15 year old said something about doing inappropriate things was very responsible of him. There are so many people molesting children out there, and nobody speaks up. What he did was right, by telling someone. But what happened to him, should not have...

...my prayers are with the family.

I have read this story on 5 different sites and still can't believe it! There is more to this story than is being told. I can understand rage; I could understand the child getting a whipping from hell; I can even understand the father putting the boy out the house--but to murder one child on the words of a baby?!!! If this kid was touching his sister, he needed help and probably didn't understand how wrong this was at the time. Lawd, what has this world come to. Now the mother doesn't have enough money to even bury the child. Pray for this family and offer any help that you can in donations. Racism has no place in this discussion because molestation, incest and rape takes place in the lives of all nationalities!

I completely agree with CMM. The father's insane reaction speaks more to some form of possible self preservation than to an act of anger.

This is exactly what a number of TCR readers yell for when they read crime stories: treat the juvenile as an adult! fondling is as bad as rape! shoot child molesters! save tax dollars! that's exactly what I would do!

Why haven't they spoken up here yet?

Wow the world is indeed a sad place. What drives a person to such insanity.

RT
www.ultimate-privacy.br.tc

this is so sad i fell bad for the little girl just got raped by her brother then her father kills her brother now her father is going to jail or is going to die.

Dad saved countless children from future molestation.

Child molestors don't change; they get worse.

Dad took responsibility for the monstrosity he brought into the world.

This entire story is sad, as well as most of your comments. If you read the story, you'll notice the mother specifies the boy did not rape his 3-yeqaqr-old sister, in fact he may have done nothing, or it may have been simple childhood curiosity. Did you ever play doctor?

I have been following this story all day.

According to multiple reports, the boy did not rape or in any identifiable way molest the toddler. he was apparently accused of doing so by the toddler's mother (his father's gf), and then spoke to HIS mother about it.

She went to his father, saying "There's a problem with our son, and we need to deal with it."

Responsible parenting, IMO. she had no way of knowing that he would then turn around and beat her child, murder him in front of her.

This is a tragedy. By all accounts, this was a nice kid, who felt that he had done something wrong somewhere and took steps to seek guidance and help- and was murdered by his own father for it.

To me- that is a tragedy, and race has not a damn thing to do with it.

America is dead. Get out while you still can.

I can't imagine how that kid's father must have felt when he heard about his son touching his sister inappropriately, but either way, that's no excuse for what he did. I hope he's given the harshest sentence possible.

Just another nigger who would've ended up in jail like the rest of them. Fucking monkeys.

Someone please remove Karen's disgusting comment @ 8:30:59 PM.

I can't believe that people are losing their minds these days. First its the little five year old then its this. i can't believe it. I truely believe the world will be ending in 2012

This whole story is so sad and scary. That a man/father could take the life of child. To say the least his own child in such a horrible way. The fact that his son pleaded for his life didn't seem to move or convict the father to even stop and think about what he was about to do. To take the word of a 3yrs old is not the best way to come to a conclusion about such a serious matter.
My questions? what questions did the mother asked her little daughter and what method did the mother take first before calling the father. It seems as if he was not a loving or active parent in these children lives. And that he couldn't have a good relationship with his son, who the mother was quoted saying how much he loved his dad. justice must take place for a life taken away so soon.

I see that boy's picture and it breaks my heart. I can't imagine sacrificing your own child. The truth will never be known now.

I don't know if I should Cry or Throw Up...How could a parent do this...There is no legal form of punishment that fits this crime..

It will be a long time before I can get that Boys face out of my mind

God have mercy on this child's soul...for I have none for his father.

It's a terrible story, but you have to remember that blacks commit 50% of the violent crime in this country, at the same time they number only 12% of the population. South Africa is the second-place murder capital of the world. Blacks are violent. It has nothing to do with slavery, it has to do with the frontal lobes of their brains, which causes them to have control issues. It's ridiculous to think that they have so many different physical characteristics outwardly and yet nothing can POSSIBLY be different about their brains. The fastest human on the planet is black, blacks jump further and higher and don't need affirmative action to excel in sports, but they certainly appear to have needed it at college and the workplace.

I honestly just don't know. My heart goes out to the family. R.I.P Jamar Jr.
For your father will not, instead he will just burn I'm hell.

Racisim is very much still alive

I totally agree with nellymae and renee. No where in this story or others did it say he raped his little sister or touched her inapporiately. To take the word of a 3 year old is not always the best thing to do. My little brother told our mom when we were little that I touched his "wee wee". When she got down to it she found out that I was helpin him get off the "potty" and helping him get dressed, I accidently touched him. Does that make me a child molester? Hell no. It means it was an accident. Now I'm not sayin ALL little kids lie about everything, but more often times they do. Anyone remember the daycare trials, in what the 80's I believe it was?

My heart and prayers go out to this family. I hope one day they can move on the best they can from this tragedy. That poor mom, I can't imagine what I would do if someone killed or even hurt my daughter.

To: Karen and Sharon

Holocost, Columbine, the guy that picked people off from the bell tower, Oklahoma City bombing, just to name a couple, must have been black.

Yes, racism is definitely alive and blacks are more guilty of it than whites.

Yes, the guys who killed at Columbine were white. They are not in the statistics I cited. 50% of the violent crimes in this country are committed by blacks, who are a mere 12% of the population. The guys at Columbine are not included in that statistic, because they were white. There's nothing you can say to undo the statistics on black crime. They're just numbers, but they speak volumes about blacks. Don't forget about South Africa, you can't blame their violent crime stats on the guys at Columbine. Yes, white men also kill people, but not at the rate black men do. It's also a fact that white men don't rape 100 black woman on average everyday. But the converse is true about black men. Suck it up.

Dear Get Real,

If you'd rather discuss white crime statitics we can do that. I'm afraid it's probably true that white males commit a great percentage of the mass murders in this country, they also set most of the wild fires. As a white person, those stats disturb me. Why aren't blacks disturbed by the 50% 12% stat? We were all trying to understand why some dad took his NAKED 15 year old son into a field and shot him in the head, I think the frontal lobe, impulse control thing is looking pretty good as far as explanations go.

HEY, LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE: 1 LESS CHILD MOLESTER, AND THE DAD DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY THE MUCH DREADED CHILD SUPPORT.

Wow I read that the kid told his mother that he had done something improper. But for a father to do this, well this is beyond control and this man deserves full brunt of the law. Or else we'd be hypocrites as there is a religious sect, one very unpopular as of late, who would've done the same thing this man did.

Is the religious sect you speak of, Muslims?

God Sharon, all you racist idiots are just too tiresome for words. Pleaes go choke yourself to death on frozen burritos and cheap beer while Jerry Springer plays in the background, you uneducated, meth-smoking, hollow-cheeked, brown-toothed, piece of white trash shit.

Dear Gaggy,

What did I say that was so awful. I'll tell you what's tiresome, what's tiresome is that we don't honestly discuss this stuff and that blacks get to keep up their pity-party and bad behavior. This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when someone tries to openly discuss such issues. I am not a racist, but I am tired of what goes on with blacks in our country. Your little profanity-laced diatribe is exactly the sort of frontal-lob thing I'm talking about. I'm in a Philosophy class this semester and I'll think I'll take your comment to class, along with my comments and give the class an example of what happens in this country, when someone tries to talk honestly about race.

the reason the man reacted so violently is because he has experienced this before. unfortunately white people are much much too selfish and self-absorbed, and alienated, to see beyond what is in their own heads

Dear Bradley,

I don't understand, the man acted violently because he had experienced WHAT before?

Braddie,

What do you mean about the day the world turns? Is it like code for something? Are you referring to the race riots that blacks have been holding whites hostage to for decades? Please explain.

JUSTIN IGGER, He is living proof that man can live without a brain!

Doesn't this site have any Mods? I hate that the internet is full of ignorant, racist cowards who spew such crap when they are anonymous. You have to have Mods to keep things readable.

Racist? Hmmm. Let's see if you find "racism" here: Channon Christian & Christopher Newsom. Along with Ann Presley's rape & murder swept neatly under the rug before Obama's election; or the two men throwing ndustrial acid in Katie Piper's face at pointblank range; or the Kansas Wichita massacre, courtesy of the Carr brothers. Good luck with that "racism"!

So Lazette Cherry calls her Ex, knowing his violent nature. She's just as guilty for that boy's murder because she put a bug in Daddy's ear based on an 'allegation' by this slut. That kid didn't do shit to her 3-year-old, Miss Cherry simply didn't want him around anymore.

Inffffingsane! Rash and ultimate punishment without even knowing exactly what happened. Now no one will ever know—except the little girl of course (who will bury it deeply, where it will fester and erode her mind from within for her entire life).

(Meanwhile, CMM makes an interesting point.)

once again the real issue is forgotten because of nonsense, people wanting to portray themselves in a intelligent light,which in turn brings the focus away from what went on;a CHILD is dead because a PARENT took his life,doesn't matter what race he was and all your statiscal research will not change that or the FACT that the world has evil people in it and to blame one particular race for most of it,is not FACT or fair.

God bless and much love

The comments from the Nasty, Filthy, Pink Skinned Racist Pigs named Karen and Justin shows why we as black people really need to change our ways and attitudes. Here we have a tragic story and all the Filthy Pigs can do is spit evil words out of there nasty mouths. Stop killing, hating, and destroying one another black people. If you just have to kill someone then it would be much much much better to Slaughter a Nasty Filthy Racist Pig!

Sharon is another example of an ignorant simple minded filthy pig. The thing about the Pigs is that they seem to think that they're so smart! Yet they are the most problemagtic people on the earth. These pigs can't get along with anyone! They are the biggest child molesters, serial murderers, mass murderers, etc etc etc. They go to war every other yr with just about every country and race in the world! Not only are they at war with all of mankind but they also are very destructive to animals, forrest, streams, oceans, lakes, and rivers. These human Pigs are nasty fithy and destructive to the world just like their cousins the four legged pig is to a pig pen. Sharon the pink skin Pig has no clue as to how destructive slavery was and still is to blacks but yet she thinks she's so smart.

Sharon, you're talking about black men raping women....GROWN women. Speaking as a black woman raped by a white man at knife point at the age of 16. As wrong and as horrible rape is, regardless of what race the rapist is...let's talk about the statistics of your white men who rape, moleste, sodomize and do every other sick act they can think of to little boys and girls. Not to mention, doing all these sick acts while taping it not only for their enjoyment, but for all to see, to showoff. As crazy as this may sound right now, at least a GROWN woman has a fighting chance to try and protect and save herself and more times then not, if a GROWN woman doesn't survive, she at least didn't go down without a fight. Children don't have that fighting chance Sharon. YOUR statistics show that sex crimes committed on children are almost always comitted by white men.

ALL THESE RACIST COMMENTS N LOOKIN UP BLACK STATISTICS IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS SITUATION..A LIFE WAS JUST TAKEN...I HOPE ALL OF THESE IGNORANT PEOPLE ARE DAMNED TO HELL..DAMN!

Nellymae said:
"Did you ever play doctor?"
That is a term for the natural exploration that young children do with eachother, not a 15 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. That is something entirely different. However, we don't really know what he did and whether or not is was something serious. The father's reaction was far too extreme, and makes me wonder what his motives were. If he had waited to find out what happened and it was later discovered that the boy was doing some seriously devious stuff, I may feel different, but to have such an immediate drastic reaction makes me wonder.

As far as Sharon attempting to use statistics to reinforce her racist viewpoints... that's already been proven to be inaccurate. They dont' have any legitimate statistice regarding blacks and crime because it has been confirmed that blacks are more likely to be charged with crimes than to get off with warnings like whites. For example, my mother (who is technically not white, but looks white and has caucasian on her driver's license) was constantly in trouble with the law. For every 10 instances where the police were called, she would be charged with a crime maybe 1 or 2 of them. By the time she got to court, they were offering her all types of diversion programs and kept the charges off her record. If she had been black, she would have been thrown in jail and the key would have been lost. So it's not so much that blacks commit more crime, rather it's that they are more likely to be charged in the first place, and they are more likely to be given sentences that far out-weight the charges. All of this has been proven. Being in a philosophy class doesn't make you smart, nor does it validate you old, disproven thinking.

Interesting that race is always brought up no matter what skin color it is, and along the way there is someone making racist remarks. However, I think people tend to confuse racist statements with statistics. Sharon did not say anything racist whatsoever, but stating statistics It obviously offended people which lead to the band wagon of name calling.So explain to me how that doesn't make you look like racists as well? (ie:cracker/pig) The more people make it out to be able race, the more racism is going to continue. As a white female, I don't necessarily agree with the statistics. There are just as many white killers, child molesters, pedophiles as there is black.
As for the this man taking his own son's life, it makes me sick. I don't care what race, religion or what set you off, there was no reason to humiliate this boy and then kill him. I do agree that IF this boy did touch his half sister inappropriately, then he did right by trying to get help and being honest. I believe this child was a victim himself one way or another. As for punishment, I think he should fry, but if he gets life, he should lose rights to his daughter. For people to stand there and not to take action I am in complete shock. There is no justifying what this man did and he will pay one way or another.

He touched her, we don't know the circumstances though. It could have been quite innocent. I mean they coulda played tag or something. On the other hand he could have been touching her in a creepy way.
Either way, it's quite cold blooded to kill youre son when he's begging for his life after being humiliated.

To Sharon.

There are so many things I'd like to point out, in youre comments, but it's tiresome. Since I'm probably writting to someone blinded "by hate". Therefore I'll keep it short.

You keep mentioning South Africa, doesn't it bother you that the continent with the most resources and it still amoung the poorest. It's not just black people killing each other etc. there's a large political and economical interest in keep up the strife and not having a united Africa. The ones earning on the strife doesn't come from Africa though.

Another point I find, in lack of better words, annoying. You say black people, have a different frontal lobe. Yet there is no evidense that support that, in a matter of fact it's quite the oppasite everything points out it's the same. You say you study philosophy, yet you have groundbreaking new knowledge of neurology. Showing a link between skin pigmentation and the frontal lobe.

In courts I don't think you will find much pity-party for black people.

You want to discuss the statistics. We'll when, and where are they from are they nationwide. Could there be a link between the social layer and crimerate? Black people also tend to face a lot of prejudism, can you believe it? When you hear that too much you start believing in that "shit". Low selfasteem is actually quite a factor when it comes to crimes, especialy of violent nature. Combine the low selfasteem with a bad social layer and it will trigger an alarming crimerate. I know theres black people in important positions, Obama etc. "I won't start talking about the men behind the certains and their skincolor" But when you look at how the low-mid-high class is differentiated amoungst black compared to white it should draw a more clear picture. It should be viewed as income pr. citizen. Since there are more white colored people than black colored people. Again, It's more than meet the eye.

All in all, I hope to have cleared a few things up.

Wow, when a racist comment regarding black people is said, everyone, including myself, is quick to jump on the person to tell them how ignorant they sound. I am white, and I don't care about statistics. But don't jump on all of us and call us all murderers, harmful to animals, etc etc. And you can't just talk all smack about white people and only refer to Sharon, karen and Justin because that is exactly the thing they are doing. They classify all blacks as horrible, etc. They are ignorant. Don't stoop to their level and crash all whites because we are not all the same. Let's not bring this world further into destruction, especially if you have kids. Teach your kids that people like that (I mean white and black people who group all of a race into one and disrespect them all) are ignorant and hurtful. The truth is, they are more hurtful to themselves than anyone else, as they will never be able to cope with the pain that another race is degrading them or embarassing them. Forget about it. Life is too short, as we have learned from this sad story, and we are only taking away the dignity and peace from our children by allowing these debates to take place. Lets nip it in the bud. They only say these things because they are sad, pathetic, and defensive...or offensive, or both. UNITE WITH OUR SISTERS AND BROTHERS TODAY. We all matter, no matter our race, color, age or religion.

One last comment and thought on Sharon The Pink Skinned Pig. She said that blacks are the MOST racist! Piggy, have you ever heard od the KKK? Have you ever heard about the four little girls blown up in a church by KKK members? Have you ever heard of Medgar Evers, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, or Martin Luther King whom were all MURDERED by Filthy Nasty Pigs? Have you heard of Jim Crow laws? Have you heard of slavery? Blacks have never perpetrated crimes like these too whites you idiot so don't ever try to suggest that blacks are more racist! Matter of fact blacks aren't racist at all because our hatred is not about the color of skin, nationality, culture, or religion. Our hatred towards SOME whites is because of the CRIMES you've committed! Let me ask you this you hairbrained lunatic; is a Jew that hates Nazis a racist? What about a blond hair blue eye American that hates Muslim terrorist? The answer is NO you simpleton! These people hate because of the crimes perpetrated against them not because of skin color. You Pigs are the ones that hate because of skin color and cultural differences, this is what makes us TOTALLY different than you PIG!

THIS IS JUST SO SAD I FEEL SO BAD FOR THAT LITTLE BOY AND HAVE MURCEY ON THE PARENTS SOUL

For once, I wish the admin and writers of this website would photo shop a pic to reflect a fricking purple person. Maybe then we could truly focus on the atrocities that are committed! On second thought, it may be interesting to see some of the nasty, racist, remarks about purple folks come out! When I read some of these remarks I get sick! Although I love this site I can't get over the hatred of people because of the color of their skin.

I don't agree. I have never done any wrong to a black person for the color of their skin. If I didn't like someone who was black, it was for something they did to me. However, there were several black students who didn't like me because I was white and they insisted that I was racist because my boyfriend was white, which is based purely on preference. So please don't attempt to cover up that type of thing by saying other races are not racist. It's racist. If you group an entire race together especially based on something that happened in the past, that is still racism. Jewish people don't all hate Germans. All races are capable of racism. ALL RACES. Let's just get that clear. I am very stern on equality. That means I will give you respect but I deserve it, too. Don't blame me for something I had nothing to do with. I come with peace between the races. It is scary that these anonymous people here say such horribly racist things. I get along well with my co workers and classmates of all races. I hope they aren't one of those anonymous evil hate spewers....

Hey Blaire I'm one of the ones attacking Sharon and the other racist and I repect what you said. By no means do my comments suggest that I feel that way towards all whites. I know some very kind and friendly white people. Even during slavery there were some very kind, helpful, and friendly white people towards black slaves. Ole John Brown was one. Whenever I comment I always use the word RACIST whites which is to set them apart from non racist whites. I also say use the word SOME when referring to whites to show that by no means do I mean all are racist.

Malik,
Does it make you feel superior to call white people pigs? Get off it already.

Malik,
Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately, this world is full of racists. If we can band together, I feel we would be able to improve this place in which we live. However, that seems hardly possible with so many out there who are racist 'undercover' and probably not so racist on the outside, making them wolves in sheep's skin (if that is the proper phrase).

God Bless Jamar, Jr.

Hey Sarah are you slow or something? If you can't see that Sharons comments are prejudiced and probably racist then you must be one just like her! Yes Sharon used stats but the idiot used them to try and say that blacks are naturally criminal because of the frontal lobes. She's nutts! And so are you for defending her. She even tried to say that the problems of blacks has nothing to do with slavery or colonialization in the case of Africa. Once again she's nutts because the destruction of family, self worth, culture, language, self esteem, etc etc through slavery has everything to do with the conditions and behaviour of blacks today. Just like the success of whites has everything to do with the benefits they got from slavery. I think you both need to thoroughly research the effects of slavery on blacks before ya open ya mouths. And to show you that this isn't just a black thing why don't you research the effects of white peoples destruction and segregation of the Native American Indian. I guess their problems are attributed to their frontal lobes too huh? Your both Imbecilic Moronic Idiots that think you know so much but really don't know shit!!!

I'd give him a job with law enforcement.

He was obviously rightly appalled that his son would do such a thing. And the little girl wasn't even his daughter. It's a shame more men don't take sexual abuse and rape as seriously.

First of all, Sharon, I'm just as white as you. Second of all, I hope you take my comments to your philosophy class. If anyone there has half a brain, they will patiently explain to you (while you sit there glassy eyed and mouth-wide staring into space) that crime is a byproduct of poverty. Blacks were brought over here in shackles. Sure, white idiots like you will say "but not the ones who are living today! They need to get over it!" That's because you're a reactionary, with neither the intellectual honesty to consider how history affects the present, or to think long-term. Sure slavery was a long time ago -- but a recent study by Harvard said the chances of someone being born in the ghetto ever moving into the middle class are less than 5%. That means if someone's great-great granparents were slaves -- well, their great grandparents were just one step beyond -- poor and uneducated and unprepared to compete in the open market. What happens to the chidren of people like that -- the black person in question's grandparents? Well, they end up much the same. So do their kids. And theirs. Sure, every now and then someone breaks the mold -- and in fact, the blacks in America have been steadily rising since the days of slavery -- breaking the mold in millions of different ways every day. Don't forget, it's only been 40 years since Jim Crow...since blacks were openly discriminated against in our so-called free market.

That's why so many black kids grow up in the ghetto. And when you grow up surrounded by drugs, where the only way to rise up to commit crime, you do it. Does this excuse the behavior? No. Of course it doesn't. But does it mean that there is something wrong with black people? No, it doesn't. Not if you have half a functioning brain.

It's idiots like you that perpetuate these stereotypes. This guy is a dangerous, criminal piece of shit, and I hope he gets a strict sentence. But does it say anything about black people? Well, a couple of weeks ago there were the white kids in Florida who set another kid on fire for not paying for a video game. Does that say anything about white people?

Please, go to class. Learn. Open your mind. Someday you'll realize how stupid you sound.

Ok Blaire you said that some guys hated you because your white and your boyfriend is white. But why do they hate you for being white is the question Blaire? The point I'm making is that its not your skin that cause them to hit you. Its the history that comes with your skin color. In other words if your skin color didn't bring the terrible history of racism, violence and slavery with it they wouldn't hate you. Are they right to take that history out on you because your white? No they are not right to do it but I don't call their hatred racism. They're hatred is more like the analogy of a dog the you kick and beat over and over, after awhile he will bite you and maybe hate you. To some blacks your skin color symbolizes slavery, racism, and violence. For these reasons people will develop hate. Racism means that you believe your superior and have the right to dominate and control other races. This is what white racist think when they are hating blacks. Blacks are not thinking that when they whites therefore it isn't racism. Its hatred because of crimes perpetrated against their race and you were simply a collateral damage casuality of the war of hate.

llas, justin, u are the igger...look up the word, dick. training and learning? u cant be serious...how can u bring race into this? and please dont break bad with me on the internet. cause u wouldnt do it in person...as far as the real issue, the boy should have been commited and the daddy should be jailed and given help while on lock down.

SHARON, I must say that your stats on the surface are dead on... however I must remind you that in order to make comments on race, we must go back to the beginning and not start from the end. Blacks have been enslaved (as all other races at some point or another) but it most be understood that whites slavery has been systematic and it's roots are found in actions that take place today (all over the world).... Whites have left their mark by way of Guns, Germs, and Steel (it's been documented on PBS) and it is they who have created a state of hate and violence among ALL cultures they've enslaved. I wont get into semantics with you... however, I will say it is whites who lived in caves (Europe) and blacks lived in tropical climate... it is scientific fact that cold weather produces more aggressive behavior. So, when the whites came out their caves and conquered the "civilized world" they left their trademark...VIOLENCE. It is sad that those who have just found power chose to follow the path that whites have created (which whites can now disregard since they've gained control).... kinda like the world becoming Americanized... not necessarily 'cause it's for the better, but simply because it's the thing to do. So as you throw your math (stats) maybe you should look into science as well.... maybe then you'll keep from regurgitating half truths and understand the whole story before talking... kinda makes you look ignorant (which I'm sure you're not).

nonetheless, keep writing, I find it amusing and it's people like you that make some want to learn more.... ignorance must be bliss.

As for the initial story, we all have our opinions and hopefully can share them with a bite of class and taste.

Gaggy, kudos - I commend you. It's nice to read something intelligent as far as responses.

Hey Malik, you are no better than Sharon, read your own garbage.

MALIK: When you use phrases like "pink-skinned pig" it takes away from your credibility, and I think you may have a lot of perspective to bring to the discussion, and would like to see what THAT would be rather than race-motivated name-calling. Sharon is ignorant and racist and close-minded, of that there is little doubt, but her skin being "pink" has nothing to do with it, as there are many fair-skinned whites out there who do not share her beliefs, and to ostracize them like that is unfair.

I feel so sorry for the mother! Wait a minute, Black, White, Purple or green wrong is wrong!!! Race is not the issue here!! A child was Murdered by his Father!!!

Justin, please tell me how a white kid would just be learning, while a black kid is in training. Do you think violence and crime is just designated to blacks? I guess the incident that happened at Columbine was just an isolated incidence? No sir, I believe not!!!! Please stop being so ignorant. The very same way you judge someone, that is the way you will be judged. GOD, unlike you, does not see color. He does not hurt over only bad things that happen to His white children, but over bad things that happen to ALL of his children.

Such a tragedy! I pray for peace for these families.

Blair, you are so correct! How this became a race issue I will never understand. The fact of the matter is evil is everywhere and it has the potential to be in ALL people, not just blacks and not just whites. There will be a day when we have no choice but to unite...and that place is eternity where you will either lift up your eyes in heaven or hell. Race won't matter there!

Malik,
Your comment wasnt posted on there when I wrote that, but just goes to show your true ignorance anyway. Doesn't matter if I had read it or not, you still used choice words. Rasism works both ways.

Malik~If you read my comment before hand, I did say that I didn't agree with everything she had said. As far as you asking if I was slow, and calling white racist "pigs" shows you are just as judgmental . If anything I can see both point of views, that doesn't mean I am racist. I apologize for my comment to you, since your comment wasn't posted at that time. However, I do think people take things out of context and read too much into what people are trying to say. I am just sick of the back & forth bickering and the finger pointing. It's a shame that people are still ignorant.
This situation is not about the color of skin, this about a man who took his son's life. This defenseless child who pleaded for his life could have sought help if given the chance. As for this man not wanting his son known as a pedophile, is complete denial. I have a feeling this man has a past that no one is aware of right now.

@ Karen ... first thing Monday morning .. I will find your IP address and have you band from making comments. Sad the ignorance you have. Sounds like a very fat unattractive women. Far as Sharon I guess obama is the only educated black huh... this is not a race issue... so don't make it one. When you have many whites raping there own children. Sad there will always be racism .. no matter what the subject is. sharon take you racist remarks as well so some angry black women can hang u and we will discuss you on the board

Would you people listen to yourselves?! Your all pretty much crazy! This had NOTHING to do with race. It had to do with a boy, who by the way might or might not have done anything to the little girl.

Now, call me racist all you want, but I have a few things to get of my chest.

For one, people like sharon and justin, you give all white people a bad name. Why do you insist on commenting if all it is do to is get a rise out of people on something as horrible as this.

For two, malik, you spouting off pretty much everything you say is just as racist as what justin,sharon, and others have said. You said that blairs students dislkied her because of what the color of her skin "repressent?!?!" Are you serious?!?! And you don't think that line of thinking is racists at all?!?! Black, white, pink, purple with yellow polka dots, whatever color you are, that's racist.

The students not liking her because her skin takes them back to slavery? Ok, I'm white. I know it was horrible. As far as I know, and we have done extensive study on our family background, none of my ancestors owned slaves. I am sorry that it happened. Can I change the fact that it happened? Not unless Doc Brown really invented a time machine. I really don't know what else anyone can do to try to make it better or right or whatever. So not to sound mean, racist, or whatever, isn't it time to stop using slavery as the reason why blacks are being held down? Maybe we should just move forward to equality and love for one another as human beings. Now there's a thought.

It seems to me that your just as racist callin white people pigs, whether you mean all white people or just some of us, it doesn't matter. Now, don't mistake what I'm sayin, which I'm sure some of you will and will eventually attack me and call me a racist. I do not agree with what some white people say about black people. I acutally like the black people I know. I have known one woman my whole life and many of my cousins and I think of her as our aunt. To be honest, I thought for the longest time she was my aunt, until an ignorant black man told me she wasn't related to a bunch of crackers like us. Talk about a heart break!

Kinda off base, but can someone please explain to me, in a way that makes sense, why it is ok for black people to call other black people the n word? Or why is it ok with some black people that some white people call them that? My husband, who is white for those of you who think only black people who are raised in ghettos, was raised in ghettos in california and tulsa and has many black friends. The first time I met some of them both my husband and his friends (who were black for those of you who have lost track) walked up to each other did the handshake/hug thing and said "what's up my n@*!#." Now me, being raised to never say that word, I was quite shocked! His friends didn't seem to mind it at all that he called them the n word!

Like I said, off the subject, but I'm confussed, a little puzzled, even why its ok sometimes. Call me ignorant, or even racist, but to me the n word can mean lots of things about lots of races. The words that come to mind are ignorant, worthless, losers. To me, in my personal opinion and line of thinking, justin is actually the n word too.

But back on the subject, this poor boy lost his life in a very senseless way. Race should have nothing to do with it, but unfortunately, morons have popped out of the wood work and made it about just that instead of what it should be about. Another baby losing his life way to early.

Also, and I'm sure I will get attacked because I have been verbally attacked once before as have many other people (black and white, which makes me wonder how a black person could be racist against another black person) president obama is not black. He is half white and half black.

Now, let the attacks begin...........

Oh, no, sick of the bickering! Don't ask them any more questions! They'll just KEEP TALKING!

Like "racism is the issue here" who appears to be decrying that form of bigotry while denigrating someone's words on the basis of the speaker being "probably fat". Good going!

Fat maybe the issue here. The dad may have hated his chrubic son for being fat. What an animal, that guy.

The real ignorance in the thread, at least the ignorance of actual relevance is in claiming that the dad probably eliminated a future child molestor.

Just today I read an interview with a former sex-crimes prosecutor named Robin Sax, who quoted an FBI statists indicating that the majority of offnders against children under age 6 are... juveniles UNDER 18. Do you know what this might mean? That as juveniles age into non-juveniles and older, their offenses against small children start to drop off slowly, which means that an offender like Pinkney Jr, probably DOES change out of thsi behavior. Of playing doctor or not managing his own new hormones well. As his experience grows and his maturity and interpersonal morality matures too.

How nice it would be for there to be a safe,accepting place for abusers and predators and wifebeaters and chilbeaters to go to GET HELP because They wanted to learn how to strggle wuth their bodies, with their urges, or the pressure thatget them angry and not end up doing stuff that hurts others or themself...

If theis boy were truly at risk, he deserved a better solution than a bullet in the brain from his beast of s sperm-donor.

I should have added to the statement about my husband. My husband is half white, half mexican. Just a little tidbit before you start called me racist.

Qwerty,

Sorry! I know there will probably be more rants and senseless tirades. Heck, I'm sure mine will be considered one!

By the way, love your comments about the person would called one commentor "fat", that's showing them!

I also happen to believe that not every molester will never stop. There are some that can and do stop. We just never hear about them because, well let's face it, they don't make good news. I also believe that there should be some place that these types of people can go to get the treatment they so desperately need.

Remember people, the majority of the people who molest others, were also molested themselves. They may be perps now, but they too were once victims.

Once again, let the attacks begin............

Why is race brought into this? We should be discussing the crime and the individual people who are involved, not dragging in ethnicities. There's a story of a white girl who strangled and slit a 9 year old's throat, which is easily the worst crime being highlighted on this site right now; I don't see anyone trying to drag down the whole Caucasian race for what she did. Instead people are discussing HER.

Back on topic: I can understand the father's anger, but why STRIP HIM NAKED then kill him? Such a shame he had to go through the situation of his own son touching his daughter. This is so sad.

First of all God Bless all the children that had and are suffering at the hands of abusers.
SHARON, you are trying so hard to sound intellagent. We know that there are more black men in the legal system than white men.Studies show lack of education, along with other reasons, no fathers in the home, drugs, other reasons. I am white and all the reasons above, with the excepition of that my father lived in the home. ( I was raped by him ) have the most impact on the black population. I don't buy the frontal lobe crap. You sound like a very uneducated person,some where around the 8th grade. Our president is a great example of an intellegant man. If you want to talk about stubid and FRONTAL LOBE lets discuss Bush or Rush.

THIS IS SO SAD TO READ THESE RACES COMMENTS ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND THE STORY IS ABOUT A KID. STICK TO THE TOPIC AND KEEPS YOUR VIEWS ABOUT PEOPLE TO YOUR SELF. FOR SHARON I HOPE YOU LEARN THE HARD WAY WHAT LIFE IS. YOU NEED MORE EDUCATION BECUASE YOUR STILL DUMB. MATTER OF FACT WHAT SCHOOL TO YOU GO TO SO I CAN COME TO CLASS WITH YOU TO HERE YOUR NOSENSE. LETS BE REAL ABOUT IT BUT WE KNOW YOU WON'T TELL ME PEOPLE LOVE TO TALK WITH OUT BEING SEEN ON THE INTERNET THEY HAVE NO BALLS!!!!! AND FOR THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE WITH THE NASTY COMMENTS WHEN YOU POINT THE FINGER AT SOMEONE YOU HAVE THREE POINTING BACK AT YOU PEICE OF TRASH. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TRASH OUT. GET AT SHARON BIG NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! POST BACK I'LL KEEP CHECKING FOR YOU TO GIVE ME THE INFO SMART ASS!!!!!!!

This is so tragic.

Gaggy, kudos to you. Thank you for posting that for the ignorant people.

Once again white people think they never do anything wrong. Black people why argue with them? Always remember they (meaning white people) think their crimes are different. Ex: when they steal from a company it's called embezzling but when other races steal it's called stealing. Please let white people have a planet to themselves so they can shut the F*#@ up. This little boy was accused of a horrible crime by his family member in which non us really know if it was true or not and all of sudden race played a part. NOW REMEMBER WHITE PEOPL ALWAYS MAKES THE COMMENT WE BRING UP RACE ALOT. GO BACK AND READ ALL THE COMMENTS AND SEE WHO BROUGHT IT UP FIRST.

If it was me I would have burn him alive and let him suffer.
I am a father of a one year old baby girl. I have never been a violent man. But when it comes to my baby girl I am prepared to
kill and/or die for her!!!!

AS I SIT HERE AND READ ALL THESE THINGS PEOPLE WROTE IT IS HATEFUL VERY HATEFUL. THIS WAS A CHILD WHOS FATHER SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD OUT OF RAGE. IT DONT MATTER IF THE CHILD WAS BLACK OR WHITE HE COULD HAVE BEEN RED WHO REALLY CARES WHAT COLOR. THIS WAS A CHILD. I JUST CANT PLACE WHY PEOPLE ARE ON THIS FACT BECAUSE THE CHILD WAS BLACK. THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THIS STORY BUT WE DONT GET TO READ THAT. IM A MOTHER OF 4 AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN FACTS BEFORE I STATED IT TO ANYONE. I WOULD GO BLOOD FOR BLOOD FOR MY CHILDREN BUT FACTS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. THIS THINGS WITH BLACK AND WHITE WAS OVER MANY YEARS BEFORE I WAS ALIVE AND IT WONT EVER END BUT THAT THIS DONT MEAN TO BASH A CHILD BECAUSE OF HIS COLOR. FACTS ARE IMPORTANT AND THAT WHAT PPL SHOULD LOOK AT

I would not wish such end resilt on a kid like that bur if he had grown up like this well needless to say he would be a serial molester rapist and who knows?Plus the broken home thing helps make one even more like this.

Here are some REAL stats:
* Those inmates who were convicted of committing violent acts against children were more like to have been white, a percentage of nearly 70%, than any other race.
* White inmates were nearly three times more likely to have victimized a child than black inmates.
* About one in every seven Hispanic convicts had been convicted for a crime against a child.
* Nearly two-thirds of convicted child molesters and/or offenders were or had been married.
* Child molesters and offenders were more likely to have grown up in a two parent home and were more likely to have been molested as a child.

Okay, Sharon,
Again here is a person that put out real numbers, what do you have to say now SHARON? Black, White, Brown, any race. If you hurt or kill another person like this BEAST did his punishment should fit the crime.
AS TO THE GRADE LEVEL OF THE PEOPLE COMMENTING ON BLACKS, WHAT IS IT,6 TH, 7 TH GRADE? GO TO SCHOOL!

I CAN NOT BELIEVE THE MINDS OF PEOPLE THESE DAYS...A CHILD WAS LOST,A MOTHER IS CHILDLESS TONIGHT AND CAN NEVER GET HM BACK...WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION SHARON AND THESE OTHERS WHO ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT BLACK CRIME RATE...GET OVER IT PEOPLE THERE ARE BAD BLACKS AND BAD WHITES AND BAD HISPANICS AND BAD JAPANESE AND THE LIST GOES ON...IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ALL RACES...SERIAL KILLERS ARE NORMALLY WHITE MEN EXCEPT FOR THE D.C. SNIPER AND THAT WAS THE FIRST BLACK SERIAL KILLER EVER..SO DOES THAT MAKE IT ANY BETTER NO!!! THIS CHILD IS DEAD AND GOD HELP ANYONE WHO FEELS NO COMPASSION FOR THIS WHOLE FAMILY BLACK OR WHITE!!!WHO CARES ITS PEOPLE(HUMAN BEINGS)

this is so sad and to bring color into this matter is even sadder. my heart goes out to this family. and shame on the people who judge on color. you are just as sick as the father. step back and realize that this is person

first thing first the young man came and confessed to his mom that he had done something wrong he confessed his sins before he died now the mother should of took controled of the sistuation and gotten the young man some help instead of sending death at him .she knew how her ex would react she is just as much to blame as her ex is.

The thing I wonder is how can this father kill this poor child and not even ask any questions first to actually see what happened. He killed him as if this was a stranger and let alone THIS IS HIS OWN SON!!! comon... No one knows the truth behind this, the kid knew it was wrong thats why he told his mother. I hope this father burns in hell!!. AS FOR YOU BIGKEN... read the story moron its his own son and daughter... who would you kill??? let me guess save your lil girl? ha so you can have a piece of her.

Wow! This is certainly proof that the end of days are nearer and nearer. The devil has just creep into every household it seeems and in everyone's heart. Is there nothing that people will not do????

DATS REALLY MESSED UP.THATS "DAD" HAD SUM SERIOUS ISSUES.ALL THEY COULD OF SUN WAS ASKE IF HE DID IT N GOT HIM HELP.I KNO THAT MOM FEELS SORRY 4 TELLIN HER X NOW.I FEEL SORRY 4 HER..MY HEART GOES OUT 2 HER..N THE LIL SIS THAT WONT HAVE A BIG BRO 2 GROW UP WITH.

This is so heart breaking, A dad killing his son who just made a mistake. This boy looks so innocent in his picture. I agree that maybe there is some kind of abuse that runs deeper than this story. I feel for this kid's mother and sister. This kid didn't deserve this.

The son admitted to wrong doing, which was said to have happened a few months ago. Since his "Dad" did this, now everyone knows. He could have sought counseling or various other resources to get this child the help he needed. Reasoning for his behavior may have came to light as he might of been victimize as well. One will never know now.
This is not about race or statics. It's about a boy who's life was taken in the hands of his own father. This was premeditated murder, he knew exactly what he planned on doing, especially he brought a gun. Any guy can be a "dad," but it takes a REAL MAN to be a Father, and Jamar Sr, is not that by any means. Did this man have a permit to carry or own a gun??? As much as I would like to see Jamar Sr stripped naked, down on his knees pleading for his life in front of his loved ones, I know that it wouldn't do any good. I would like all his rights from his daughter taken away and CPS take her away. It's obviously that she must not be getting the care she truly needs. Good luck to him in prison.......since that is where he belongs for the rest of his life.
All this hating, placing blame and pointing fingers has GOT to stop!

Pretty stupid father. He didn't even get to hear the son's side of the argument, but just blows him away.

Now, the dad is going to lose this own life, and being with his wife and daughter. What a nut job. I can see someone being angered, but you don't shoot the kid.

This father must have been a crazy person just waiting to go off.

This is a case in which everyone loses. The fact that a child had to watch as his own parent took his life, is a tragedy in itself. The mom acted as any mother would and should have. And the poor little baby sister who will one day learn of the reason she lost her brother. WOW.She is a baby, and any parent with children knows that sometimes babies say things that arent all the way true. And even if it were true, you get both kids help. Not take them out strip them naked and kill them. I pray for all parties involved. I do understand that Dad was angry but come on now. My Father in Heaven please help your children for we are lost confused and on a path of pure destruction. My heart goes out to the family.Please find the light on this dark path. Look to God. So many tears.

Speaking as a woman that has been molested by a family member and it was covered up by family, it led to nearly every female in our family being molested. I'm black and I apologize if I offend anyone but my personal opinion is I care about the three year old that has to live with something so horrific done to her. If my son whom I raised to be better than that who I've vividly informed about this type of thing was to do this to anyone, I love him with all my heart but I would not care what happens to him more than what the child has been through.

Sharon said:
Yes, the guys who killed at Columbine were white. They are not in the statistics I cited. 50% of the violent crimes in this country are committed by blacks, who are a mere 12% of the population. The guys at Columbine are not included in that statistic, because they were white. There's nothing you can say to undo the statistics on black crime. They're just numbers, but they speak volumes about blacks. Don't forget about South Africa, you can't blame their violent crime stats on the guys at Columbine. Yes, white men also kill people, but not at the rate black men do. It's also a fact that white men don't rape 100 black woman on average everyday. But the converse is true about black men. Suck it up.

Posted 11/20/2009 at 12:37:28 AM

****MY RESPONSE TO THIS IS;******

aaaah, people make the world a bad place Sharon....PEOPLE!
it matters not if a black person kills 1 person for 30 days of a month, and white person kills 30 people only ONCE a month, the point is that "WE" are our own worst enemies, and no crime really is more uglier than the other.

When you can catch THAT, then color, sex, country, religion, and percentages FALL AWAY.

No one knows what the truth is behind this story. So many people want to be so gun-ho about the situation instead of what really lies behind it all. It's so easy for people to say off the wall crap when it's not your kid. I blame parents, and the truth is, some people just don't deserve to have children.

CMM, great point you made. It had never crossed my mind, but indeed a valid question to ponder. "What if the dad wanted to cover up possible abuse that his son had endured earlier in life by him."

Very sad.
I am a cop in the ATL. Folks be real you are reading what the media has posted. You are assuming a lot. The only facts right now are that this young boy is dead. His Dad murdered him with a gun. It appears to be premeditated. The state of mind of the Dad at the time of murder impacted his actions no doubt. However his choice to kill his son, in his mind was the right one.
Bottom line..Stop throwing the race card, it doesn't matter! This is not a black thing or a white thing. I am white and based on facts and my experience, white people kill and molest within their familes far more than black. A young human life was ended in a a very violent manner. You all please stop assuming. No one except the accused and the victim knows what really happened. The young boy could have said nothing or done nothing to this toddler. Mom could of made up the whole story to get get former husband over to the house, especially during the holiday and it all backfired. Maybe it really happended the way it did and Dad is menatlly ill, maybe he was high.Maybe Mom shot him. Stop assuming and stop beleiving what you hear or read from the news or media. Let the law enforcemnent folks investigate and report. I bet we all will be shocked when we eventually know the truth. Stranger and unbelievable things have happended folks, believe me.
May this young man rest in peace.
Oh, before anyone ignorant folks attack my post, please believe me that I am for the death Penalty and despise beyond the norm of any person that preys upon the young, old or weak.
Semper Fidelis

GunnyH

If you label this boy a child molestor than MOST OF YOU ARE as well.. you hypocrits.. how many of you "played doctor" looking and some innocent touching as a child with another sibling or relative? this was no aggressive sexual abuse or rape... The kid made an innapprpriate touch to his sister and needed at most a good strict talking to by the dad .. not DEATH..
If you guys had a dad like this kid most of you wouild be dead by now..
and btw karen youre a pink pastey waste of devil flesh,peckerbicth

UPDATE!!!!!!!!

Since the execution of this poor child, doctors have NOT found any sign of abuse on the young girl, after a very thorough medical investigation. It is believed that nothing happened to her, and that Jamar Jr. was killed for no reason.

Its suspected that the dad was increasingly disgruntled over his loss of authority over the child because of the divorce from his ex and resented it and sought to cut all ties with the ex ..

So before you fuktards cast aspersions on the victim and CHILD slaughted in such a vile manner.. check the facts and your own issues..

Sharon - you rock. you speak the truth and the idiots on here can't handle it. the stats speak for themselves.

Holy cow some of these comments r so ignorant. From both sides. Does anyone realize that black and white r practically obsolete and that pure race is almost extinct except for inbreds? Get over it already. Turn to the person next to u and give him/her a hug, geez.
As for this poor child and his family, the mother was right, this is not something u sweep under the rug. And for the people who said that the father was predisposed to violence and it was as much the mothers fault for calling him, how do u know?? Did u know the man personally?? Because he didn't have a criminal background, this was the 1st time he'd ever been arrested and he even worked as a mail carrier for the post office, which brings up a very good arguement about him "going postal". How was she supposed to know he would react like that? My thought is I would have stood in front of my son before I let anybody put a bullet in him. Shoot me, I'd die before I let u hurt my son regardless of what he did. He humped his baby sister, the man might as well have shot the family dog. The fact that the boy felt remorseful enough to confess before he was even accused says something. This was not a pedophile. He was a curious kid. And he knew what he did was wrong and he was remorseful. How, after ur son confesses, u see the remorse, the sorrow, the guilt on his face, how after pistol whipping him and hearing his cries of pain and his pleas for mercy, how after stripping ur child down, dragging him into a field, having him kneel, look into his eyes and hearing ur child say "No, Daddy, no." How does a man just pull the trigger?? There was no love for that child in that mans heart. I hope he gets put down like the animal he is.

I'm sorry for the comments i made earlier. Statistics go both ways and they can be used to support or dispute any argument or statement. I was wrong... Dima and the other that agreed with my atrocious thoughts should be ashamed of themselves as am I.

Im so hurt by this story and my heart goes out to the mother. She did what she thought was the right thing to do. If she had know he would have killed her son there is no way she would have told him. And for JUSTIN! Just so you know child molestation is done mostly by whites. You rarely hear about someone black molesting someone.I work in law enforcement and i see it everyday. Doesnt matter what race you are its still wrong! His dad need to be put to sleep as well as all of the other rapist and child molesters in the world. And JUSTIN if you disagree i think i speak for all of us when i say you can lie down beside them and take a dirt nap.

This was my God-Brother. I miss him dearly and I love him so much. He indeed did nothing to his little sister. All of this happened in front of his mom and auntie. His auntie tried to help but it made the situation worse. We are from Highland Park,Michigan. That is where this took place. This boy was not a bad boy. When I heard this story my mouth just dropped. I cried. He was an A-B student. Everybody knew and loved him. He was very popular.R.I.P Jamar. I love you Big Dawg!!

Racism.
Intolerance.
Hate.

But there are people like "sick of all your senseless bickering", trying to say some nice words.

Shame.

amber & justin . both of you are ignorant . what happened had nuthing to do with the color of his skin .

This trial is on In Session now. I'm watching it. The medical exam indicates no sexual assault,the child's hymen is still intact.

WHEN MY SON OF 18 CONFIDED TO ME THAT HE WAS GUILTY OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT WITH A 14 YEAR OLD..MY ADVICE WAS TO GO OUT INTO THE WOODS WITH HIS SHOTGUN AND DO THE RIGHT THING...HE DID.

This man shot his son like he was a rabid dog. A 15 y/o boy,that was remorseful and very ashamed of what he had done. This boy likely was sexually abused himself, and was likely, acting out for help. How could this man chose one of his children over the other? That boy begged him not to kill him. What kind of father does that to his flesh and blood? I am just so offended by this! This is very sad!

I just wont to say two wrongs don't make it right.....right is right..wrong is wrong...and they both was wrong..that is what is wrong with parents today they dont take the time to listen to there child's cry for help...I'M sitting here looking a the court case right now and the dad look like a bitter old bastard that he is, he have no heart at all....he killed his child for his girlfriend not the Lil girl it states in court evidence the he didn't do anything to her...IT WAS ALL A LIE...LORD TAKE THEM ALL AN RINSE THEM WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS... IN JESUS NAME I PRAY FOR THEM ALL.

yea justin, i think you are a very ignorant person an u have alot of growing up to, and i think that will happen as soon as you run into the right person..

@sharron, you can throw out statistics to point out race, and then say the blacks are more racist? open your eyes, people like YOU are the problem. i come from a mixed family, color is NEVER an issure. we're PEOPLE. in the end, some one has to be a the top of the list, doesn't make anyone less of a person.

you're pooling crime, not just murders. it's a fact because of the past blacks and other minorities have been put at a disadvantage that has affected generations upon generations and i feel sorry for what you teach your children about equality.

serial killers are predominatly white males, usually sucessful ones. and they don't just kill over disputes, bad blood, being put in a violent situation, they cut people up and make hats out of them. i would say those are the people to worry about. so add that to your statistics, but of course you won't, because you've got the world pegged and know exactly how someone is by looking at them. grow up and join the future, the year is 2010 and here in america we're trying to E-volve, not D-volve.

I think that was a mistake he didn't me too. When people hear thing like that they don't think straight. The only thing he was thinkiing that someone was hurting his 3 year old it didn't dawn on him that it was his son at the moment. I just ask that god be with the family. I don't know u guys but I will keep u in my prayers cause prayer changes things remember that......

TO ALL THA DUMB ASS MUTHAFUCKAS ON HERE..A LITTLE BOY LOST HIS LIFE AND ALL U STUPID RACIST ASS PEOPLE SEE IS COLOR!!!!THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY AND WHITE PEOPLE AINT RUNNIN SHIT!!!! MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE PINKNEY FAMILY..

ONE MORE COMMENT TO THA RACIST PEOPLE ON HERE.. WHAT DO YAL THINK ABOUT CASEY ANTHONY?? THAT WHITE BITCH KILLED HER CHILD!!! IT'S TIME FOR THA RACISM TO END..BLACK PEOPLE NEED TO START STICKIN 2GETHA MORE CUS THERE ARE STILL SUM WHITES THAT WANA TAKE OVA BUT THEY CANT...

REMEMBER "MY PRESIDENT IS BLACK"...

*swig* ¡Salud!

LOL!!!!

i have been watching in session. jamar pinkney sr. is a coward and a socialpath to kill his 15/yo son for and alledge discresion. his sister hymen was in tact so there was no penitration therefore no rape occured. jarmar was wrong for inapporately grinding on the child but he did'nt deserved to being killed. his father on the other hand needs to be tortured to death.

I was watching In-Session this afternoon..My heart is bleeding.. It's the most horrible thing a parent can do to their own child.. and to look him in the face while doing it..UNBELIEVABLE..i agree with CMM.. i too thought he too may have been molested by someone...and where were the adults when this was suppose to be going on???..I know we are to have trust in our family...but we are suppose to try to help them as well... I FEEL DEVASTED.. AND HE WAS SO HANDSOME...Jamar Sr. looked cold, heartless & uncaring & I want to know he took this to trail?? so everyone can relive the hurt & pain.?..He Jamar Jr. needed and probably would have benefited from counselling. I GUESS WE WILL NEVER KNOW...but I think CMM is on the right track.. and the grandmother said he hated living with his dad..WHY?..& WHY didn't they listen and do something about it. I know that question is irrevalant. May he never hurt again.. God Bless You Son.

karen u r a sick bit%h tat n word going to get you wig blew back go suck a monkey's di*k bit^h!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as for jamar pinkney sr that bit&h let a woman send his dumb ass to jail she must've had some golden pussy guess now he will get whipped with some good ole dick and that bit*h woman of his needs to be locked up and to all of yall on this site for the most part reading your comments are equally as sick AINT NO JUSTICE IN KILLING YOUR SON now who will protect his daugther surely not that mama of hers who says she complained a few time bout her tootie and she did nothing THE LORD KNOWS THE TRUTH AND JUSTICE WILL ONE DAY BE HIS

I'm hammered, and I only vaguely read over the comments, but being enslaved 150 years ago does not excuse criminal behavior today. Blacks who bring up that argument only insult their own cause and their fellow people who have figured out how to live decently and make a living in modern society. It's pathetic excuse making.

Jamar Pinkney Sr killing his son had absolutely nothing to do with transgressions against his race that occurred decades or even centuries ago. It had everything to do with him being an idiot and a poor excuse for a human being. Regardless of his race.

This isn't a racial issue. Shut up about it already.

Sobered up now...

Nikita, you're garbage. It's amazing how your post bounces between advocating color blindness and black supremacy.

Practice what you preach, asshat.

PS, find the CapsLk button while you're at it.

this is the worse thing ive ever heard of what in the world would make this man take it to this level all little boys become courious as they grow and develop not saying he was right to touch a 3 year old and exspecially his own sister but to beat the child like that and then shoot him is insane there is no justification for this i fill like he should get what he gave

i cannot believe a father could do something like that to their child, maybe he just needed a talking to not a bullet in the head i feel for the mother, but the father needs to be shot in the head as well.

what the hell is going on out here? LOL!!!

@cw
A bunch of non-sense racism from black people, white people, mexican people, etc. etc. etc. is whats going on. I have never read a more unintelligent string of comments in my life. All parties above commenting should be ashamed at the way you behave to "represent" your race. A true non-racist person would say what I say. You are all fuckin idiots.

@ gas chamber
Did you know you had your caps lock on? Just checking to make sure because almost the whole comment you left was in caps.

hey Oppos3d - agreed - definitely some bizarre shit

right? and the one thing i hate the most is people stating that they are not racist, however they use the classic line: "(insert race here) need to band together"

That is the most racist line anyone can say. How about saying humanity needs to band together?

humanity banding together? that is a beautiful concept, but unfortunately that would require everyone getting along on equal ground...think I'll go bang my head on my desk

I hope that the families involved are allowing the little girl and the other family members to have counseling so that they can heal from this tragedy. The important thing is to learn for life and move to a place that will allow more stuff not to be perpetuated from what happens. The racism perpetuated in this place is not right. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with the case at hand. May God bless the remaining members of the Pinkney and Cherry families. They have suffered enough from the loss of a child, please no more racist posts to add insult to injury.

hey gas chamber-I don't think Sharon wants anything to do with you...and you shouldn't talk about yourself that way

@ cw, Didn't u listen to the last round u CUMSTAIN, u r saying the same shit that Sharon is saying

Dick? Dick is that you?! Don't be coy "Gas Chamber Supporter"!!! C'mon! You silly, shy boy, c'mon out of your shell. You can do it!

*swig*

ROTFL!!!!! Oh GAS, you are TOO easy!! Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

Come ON, dude, it, whatever, put your back into it thing!!!

LMAO!!!!! Hahahahahaahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!

*swig* yeah!

Oh, and Nicky, your other personality has the password to your chat room with your pedo pals. LOL!!!!

Oops, sorry, I mean Gas Chamber.

ROTFLMAO!!!!! HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

¡SALUD!

*swig*

I have read all of the comments on this site, and I am extremely sad. I wish that I knew what to say to help heal the hurt, the sickness, the racism, the hate and the irrogrance that was posted. I am a 52 year old Black woman. I don't know the ages of the people whose comments I read, but I am sad that so many of them were posted. I have lived through Jim Crow, I still remember white only signs. My Father was a Veteran of WWII and could not vote until the mid 1960's. He was a man aldready in his forties. I have seen white people kill blacks and have never come to trial. I can remember the history of people like Emmet Till, Megar Eaggars and others. I was so proud when this country elected its first Black President. I thought that we had at last made racial progress. Now a child was killed by his father, and instead of people coming together to try and understand, and help others with the pain, race and mean things were discussed. How I wish that we would learn tolerance and understanding for others. I know that the internet allows people to say things that they would never say aloud to others. But such hate eats the person who owns it. So it does not matter if anyone knows who you are!! The illness of hate is yours and it will soon destroy you. For those of you who do not understand the true definition of racism please look it up. Racism is not the same as prejudice or bias. Racism is the systematic decay of a race. Not many people of color has had the money, the power or authority to be racist to people of non color. Please do not attack me. I do not hate white people, I do not agree with the mistreatment of any people. I believe that we are really all the same. I think that we love God (or who ever you believe your creator to be), we love family, we want the same things for our children regardless of our skin color.
I have watched the case all this week on In Session. I have experienced all types of emotions. I thought that Mr Pinkey Sr. was void of feelings, I thought at one point he was a monster, then I realized that he is a man who made a very bad mistake. I think he must be punished, I think he should go the prison for his crime. But I still have compassion for him. I also have compassion for Jarmar Jr. I have compassion for the Mothers of both children. There but by the Grace of God go I, or someone that I may Love. I never know what tomorrow holds. I would suggest that we all show compassion for anyone regardless of color in times of trouble. I felt compassion for the parents of the sudents of Columbine, both the killers and the victims parents. I feel compassion for Casey Anthony.I understand the pain her mother and father must be feeling. I pary for people that I hear about in the news regardless of their color. I pray for the famlies of fallen soilders when they are announced each day on the news. And I know that I am not the only person who feels this way. I am sure that a lot of people get pass the color barrier and wish other people of dirrernet races well. If anyone would like to have a honest, intelligent converstion on race then please feel free to respond. I will talk facts, not emotions nor name calling.

"Not many people of color has had the money, the power or authority to be racist to people of non color."

That statement right there discredits everything you just said, Janice. Was it not a racist act when a black man and woman murdered a young white researcher while his mother listened on the phone, and then bragged to their friends that they killed a "white boy"? How about the Jena Six? Or how about this story from Denver where openly racist blacks pounded white people into the ground for four months? You're gonna tell me that's not some racist bullshit, just because blacks aren't in positions of power or wealth? That whole "blacks can't be racist" claim is utter bullshit.

When a white guy harms a black guy, the media goes off the charts. But when a black guy attacks a white guy, you don't hear about it. And if you do, everybody simply claims it's OK because our ancestors did shitty things to do their ancestors.

And the numbers aren't even close. In 2002, for instance, there were 1700 white on black crimes. Sound like a lot? Well, there were 2 million black on white crimes in the USA in that same year.

I'm not standing up for either group here. When a white guy does something horrific to a black guy, I assure you, I'll want him fried. Like the guys in Texas who dragged James Byrd in 1998. They oughta die in a bad way. I'm disgusted by anyone who would do something so horrible to another human, race be damned. So it really bugs me when a black does something terrible and other blacks use white racism to justify it.

There are blacks who are successful individuals in spite of the history. So I see no excuse for others who commit idiotic and brutal crimes, and neither should you. It just shows me that blacks who do stupid shit and blame the past are lazy human beings who can't hack it like the rest of you can. If I was black, I'd find that truly insulting. Heck, I find it insulting as a white guy. It's just pitiful.

I believe I am truly colorblind. I'll love and accept any person who shares my sense of honesty, personal responsibility and hardwork. And I'll scorn anyone who would dare seek historical excuses for his own bad behavior and failure in life. I don't care what your race is. Man up and play your guts out with the hand you've been dealt, and you'll have my respect. Period.

That's all supposed to be the same post, but it wouldn't go together for some odd reason...

To: Officer Pat
Pat, you did not get the gest of my message. First I requested that anyone using the word "racist" to first define the word. Not by what we think racism is but what racism really is. Racism means the systemtic mistreatment of someone. Not the dislike of someone. What I mean Pat is that people of color have never in the history of these United States stopped children from entering school, people of color have never had the power to make a person enter the front of the bus to pay the same fair, then exit the bus to enter again through the back of the bus. People of color have never had the power to sell another person to another person. A person of color has never had the power to use city water hoses and police dogs on others because they only want the right to vote. When the constitution of the United States was written I do not believe that a white person was considered 3/5 of a person. That is what I mean by racism. Just because you may dislike me because I am black or I may dislike you because you are white does not mean that either one of us is a racist. We both may be irrogrant, we may be stupid, we may be a whole bunch of things but we are not racist. Racism is the systematic mistreatment. Not a personal thing. Hate may be personal, the examples that you cited was not Racism. It seemed to me to be hate.
Now lets be truthful, hate is the off spring of racism and a whole lot of other things, such as fear. Please lets talk with a sense of what the other means. I never said that black people did not have prejudices, bias, and other bad feelings. I never tried to justify any wrong doing by my people or any other race of people.

Officer Pat, I do think that you are sincere with what you are saying. But I have found that most White People do not know or will not accept what we as Black people have to endure as having a legacy of slavery. I know that to you this sounds like a old record, but please bare with me. Keep you mind open and try to understand. No I have never been a slave, and I doubt if you have ever owned a slave. But unlike you I have experienced the residue of slavery.

Please understand that I am not blaming society for all of the ills within my community, but if you really are interested in this disease call racism and would like to see it from my point of view then we can continue to talk.

You must admit that there is something to the things that I have pointed out. As you pointed out that there has been people who has risen above this in our society. To that I say you are right. But there are always some survivors no matter what the sickness is. A few people have even escaped or cheated the odds no matter how high they were.

Officer Pat, Please come with me as I tell you of some things that I know about first hand. I was a little girl when I saw George Wallace, (Past governor of Alabama) stand in the door of schools to keep Blacks out. I only wanted to know what had I done wrong that I would not be allowed to go to school. George Wallace had the entire state Of Alabama behind him (or at least the majority white vote). This is what I mean when I say "systematic." Emmett Till was a black boy in Mississippi who spoke or whistled at a white woman and was taken from his uncle's house, beaten,rapped in barbed wire then drowned. His uncle identified the white men who kidnapped his nephew, but law enforcement did not bring these men to trial. The entire Justice system in Mississippi failed. Not because there was no evidence of who killed this 13 year old boy but because he was Black and his life was not valued.

And I can go on and on and on. Just the recent Shirley Sherrod incident shows what racism is. Her father was shot in the back by a white man with three witnesses but this man was never bought to trial. Black men were systematically lynched in the south while people bought their children and picniced. Things like this happened a long time ago, I know. And I know that you had nothing to do with it!!! I also know that you do not understand what it means to live with such a legacy. Because the system in which we live did not allow these things to happen to you on a systematic basis.

Pat, with all of this that I have related to you do you think that I can condone racism? I do not want anyone to have such memories of the country in which they live treating people of their community this way simply because of the color of their skin. Remember racism is not you calling me the N word. Racism is when the system (government, the courts etc) believes that I am less than oneone else because of the color of my skin and then allows the system to treat me accordlying.

By the way I have a white daughter-n-law that I love dearly.
I also love my two bi-racial grandchildren. I want these children to understand and embrace both sides of their heritage.

Write back

Wikipedia describes racism as such:

"Racism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

That can be practiced by individuals. And it most certainly is, with some examples being listed above. The version of racism that you're referring to is institutional racism. And institutional racism, at least in the case of every example you listed, is mostly dead. You're not 3/5 of a person anymore, you aren't banned from our schools, you're not forced to sit at the back of the bus. That day is gone. Please stop living in the sixties.

Oh, and it was black civilizations on the exterior of the African continent that sold black captives from the interior to white slave traders. So you did actually have the power to sell people for profit.

I don't for a second buy into the idea that there are some survivors of the racial disease. This isn't cancer we're talking about. This is the idea that some people had courage, determination and ambition that allowed them to overcome an adverse situation and others did not.

If two people, person A and person B, both come from the ghettos of South Philly, and person A makes a solid living, there's no reason why person B can't do the same. It's no one else's fault that he decided to lead a life of crime, or drop out of school, or father multiple children, or start using drugs. You can't blame those poor life choices on past race relations, especially when other people like person A came from the same circumstances and reached success. This isn't a game of chance, like an infectious disease or a plane crash. It's a game of ambition and determination, and as my father has always stressed, your own attitude is pretty much the one thing you can control. If you don't have that ambitious, strive-to-achieve attitude and you fail because of it, I don't feel sorry for you at all.

I do get it. White people did bad shit to black people. IN THE PAST. Yes, whites murdered Emmitt Till. Whites murdered Shirley Sherrod's father. George Wallace kept blacks uneducated. IN. THE. PAST.

For blacks in today's society to say that they are permanently scarred and unable to make honest livings because of bad shit that happened to their ancestors because of my ancestors makes exactly as much sense as me saying I can't function in life because my grandpa and all his buddies saw awful shit when he stormed the beaches of Normandy 60+ years ago. It's an excuse, and a stupid one at that. And as long as we continue to push the "residue of slavery" argument, racism will live on. The quicker it can be dropped, the quicker there might be equality.

Everybody needs to get this shit out of their heads. As long as people see color in any fashion, there will be racism. Pay it no mind. We live and die as individuals, with our goals being achieved on our own merit or not at all. Once we all start living that creed and stop abiding by predetermined biological traits, maybe we can end this fight.

Remember, MLK dreamt about a world where people were judged on the content of their character, not their skin color. Where descendants of slaves and descendants of slave owners will sit together in brotherhood. He didn't dream of a world where blacks excused poor behavior by pointing to long-dead bygones. You were alive for that too, Janice. You should know that.

http://www.timesherald.com/articles/2010/07/29/opinion/doc4c510d0753296104763290.txt

I have to get some sleep, but I think an argument can be made that this story here is an example of institutional racism perpetrated by blacks...

Officer Pat,

Thank you for the article, I would have done what those three women did. I too would have helped the officers in question. I would give information to the police about anyone committing a crime anywhere not just my community. I love to serve on juries. In short I love this Country, I am civic minded. I do not condone the treatment that the community is giving these three upstanding citizens. HOWEVER, unlike you I UNDERSTAND where this attitude comes from. Remember I an not asking you to agree with how Black People feel (keep in mind I do not speak for all black people), I am asking you to simply understand how such feelings come to be. The article was written from a white man's point of view. How can I tell?? The phrase "Blacks have only themselves to blame...."

Let's see how can I get you to see where I am coming from!!!Wasn't it a white police officer who shot the un-armed man in a subway station, caught on tape, and received only two years. Isn't that the same amount of time that Michael Vick received for killing a dog.. (that did not happen in the 1960's). At the same time that Michael Vick was being convicted there were a group of correction officers in Flordia that was accuqited for beating a 14 year old Black boy to death in a boot camp. Once again this act was caught on tape. The boy was kicked so hard by one of the officers that his body raised up off of the ground. The medical examiner said he died of Cickle Cell. It seems that when a policeman is even caught on tape killing a Black person they still get off. That has caused a distrust in the Black community.. Do I need to even mention Rodney King.

I am aware that this does not affect you like it does me. My son who is a law abiding man will not drive his car with a buddy in it. He drives alone. He is aware that two black men in a car causes Police to stop him. This in our neighborhood is known as driving while black. I am sure this in not of a concern for you.

Now to address other issues that you spoke about in you last post. Yes Africans did sell some Africans, however the vast majority of slaves were kidnapped and bought into this country. Please we are speaking strictly about life in these United States. Which brings me to a point of interest. I have high blood pressure, which is a direct correlation to the slave trade. The slaves that survived the middle passage did so by the body's ability to adapt to the horriffic conditons aboard the slave ships. The body maintained high levels of salt to survive. This condition continued within the body for years to come that is why a large number of African-Americans suffers disportionately with hypertention..LOOK IT UP...better yet ask Dr. OZ.

Officer Pat, I do not want to get into finger pointing, we can go back and forth forever. That is not what my original intentions were.

This all started because of the public's response to the Jarmar Pikney Case. I was alarmed how anyone could be so hardhearted about a child who was killed by his fater regardless of the color of his skin.

It is not about "your people doing bad things to my people," I am sure that a lot of people owned slaves because it was the thing to do, it was what was happening at that time. It was free labor, it was sex with a woman hen your wife did not want you, or when you wanted to treat a woman roughly. I don't mean to trivalize slavery but it was a very long time ago. I think that most people would agree today in 2010 that it was a horrible time in America's history. What I am tring to say is please understand that Black people are still experiencing the stress of being the off springs of slaves. Point in fact about 45 years ago school children (all white) were seperated for one day in class by the color of their eyes. Blue eyes were treated superior to brown eyes. In 1980 I saw some of the same children (now adults) on the Phil Donohue show. It was twenty years later and the brown eyed adults could not get over the way they were treated for just one day in school. I had long forgotten this study until about a year ago I was sent to a diversity training for my job. Two of these brown eyed children spoke and was still trumatized about this experiment. If one day of being treated inferior left such of a negative impression, just what do you think hundreds of years of negative treatment does? I must admit that I thought to myself "Get over it," I wondered how these white people would have felt to be in my shoes. I thought that they were a bunch of whining cry babies.

To say that slavery amounts to the experience of your grandfather's tour in Normandy simply shows that you do not understand. That is akin to me saying that watching a war movie gives me the same experience as a veteran coming home from Iran.

The aftermath of slavery is indeed a cancer. It may be a cancer that you will never be infected with but it is a cancer nontheless.

And until you and others began to understand how the past affect the future and the present then racism will always be alive and well. It will no longer live aboard slave ships, it will no longer wear white sheets with hoods, it will no longer stand in the door ways of schools, but it will take on the look of people talking on the internet about frontal lobes of people, it will talk about the stats of crimals, it will talk about people being lazy and wanting to live a life of crime.

Officer Pat, this illness did not happen in one day one year one decade not even one cenntinal. So it will take longer then overnight to heal. It has only been 40 years or so that Jim Crow was outlawed. It was only 40 years or so that schools were intergrated. 60+ years ago when your Grandfather was stepping off the boats in Normandy, my grandfather was still being called "boy" by most of his countrymen. My grandfather would not have been able to sail to the beaches of Normandy aboard the ship with your grandfather, not because he was lazy, or a criminal, or wasn't smart, or a drug addict, but because of the hue of his skin.

Remember that Dr. King dreamed his dream because of such injustices in America. If America had been the country she should have been, Dr. king would have had a good night's sleep like Barry Goldwater, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Newt Gringrich, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Glen Beck, George Wallace, Strong Thurman, Jesse Helms, Sarah Palin etc.

MLK also said that an injustce anywhere is an injustice everywhere. Do not get me wrong American is a great country so don't let anyone respond by telling me to go back to Africa,( I've never been to Africa) but America is a country that has made some mistakes, and some of her citizens will not realize the lasting impact of her past. And just how damaging her past is to some of her citizens that love her.

One more point Officer Pat, you mentioned that Black
men Father multiple children. Isn't that how the slave master populated his plantation by "studding" strong black men? Then this same father was sold away from his family. Only to be studded again and sold again. Have you given any thought that this behavior was introduced into the African-American culture by the white slave owner and lasted for hundreds of years. Don't answer with emotions or what you think. Do some research...

Pete Kotz said:

It's always wise to look to our history for clues, Janice. But I still think the stud-slavery argument would be pretty hard to make, simply because black families went through 100 years of pretty stable relationships, just let everyone else, before the culture of narcissism began taking over in the 1970s. That's that same time divorce rates, out-of-wedlock births, etc., began skyrocketing for whites.

I'd argue that it's simply of case of all men growing weaker and less sacrificial, with black men the suffering the worst affliction.

Actually, you're wrong. The article was written by a black man, as evidenced by the fact that the author refers to the black community as "we" throughout the article. It's quite promising when blacks themselves are able to condemn these attitudes and demand some personal responsibility for their actions.

Now, those acts you list are not examples of institutional racism. They are examples of individual racism (if at all), similar to the examples I posted of black-on-white crime. And, referring back to the statistics I posted earlier, those crimes would be lumped in with the 1,700 white-on-black crimes. The ones I listed would be lumped in with the TWO MILLION black-on-white crimes. So yeah, there are still white guys who do shitty things to black guys. But that number is miniscule compared to the number of black guys who do bad shit to white guys.

I am unable to find statistics detailing how many of the 12 million slaves taken from Africa were captured and sold by Africans, but the following quote from Wikipedia seems to suggest it was quite prevalent: "Although Europeans were the market for slaves. Europeans rarely entered the interior of Africa, due to fear of disease and fierce African resistance. The enslaved people would be brought to coastal outposts where they would be traded for goods."

I didn't know about the hypertension thing. So I took your advice and looked it up. And as I immediately suspected, it was proven to be total crap: http://www.gbmnews.com/articles/561/1/Slavery-Hypothesis-as-Explanation-for-Blacks-High-Hypertension-Rates-Unfounded-Expert-Says-in-Opinion-Piece/Page1.html

I'll admit that I misstepped with the analogy of my grandfather at Normandy. It was late, I was tired, and I kinda just wanted to tell everyone that my grandpa's an American hero, because that's some epic shit. Anyhow, I'll just go with a better analogy...

How about the Jews? I think we can all agree that the Holocaust was the worst atrocity in human history, not to mention all the other acts of persecution the Jewish people have suffered throughout history. Including on-going persecution in Israel and even throughout the world from notable people who hold anti-Semitic views (like Helen Thomas, that old hag). Yet you don't see Jews in this country, or in Germany, or anywhere else, committing crimes and then saying it's OK for him to do it because other people have been ruining his people's lives for years. If they can build highly successful societies and individuals in spite of all that's been done to them, then black people can too. NO EXCUSES.

So then you tell me that it was only 40 years ago that schools were integrated and blacks were pretty much brought to full equality, at least in the eyes of American law. Well guess what? Roughly 60% of America is 39 or under. Meaning a solid majority of us were never even alive for the institutional racism you fear so deeply. So it's baffling to suggest that this is a factor when a young black man commits any sort of crime.

And again, since you didn't get it the first time, 40 years ago, Martin Luther King was ready to forgive. And he called for blacks to forgive as well. The man lived under Jim Crow and still believed the best thing was color-blindness. So frankly, I think he'd be insulted by the present-day race-baiting of Obama, Jackson, Sharpton, etc.

A color-blind society was the man's dream! He saw the injustices in America yet he wasn't crying for revenge or making excuses for black failure. He knew the best way to deal with the situation was to put it in the past and truly start living up to the concept of "all men created equal". That man was a hero, and you to be propagating this lame responsibility-dodging crap four decades later amounts to pissing on his legacy.

PS...the multiple child argument you just provided is another excuse. You really think that when P Diddy was getting ready to have unprotected sex with his various baby-mommas, he was thinking, "I'll have to thank whitey for introducing rampant promiscuity to my culture! Yeahhhhhh!"? I mean, really? This isn't some genetic trait that gets passed down uncontrollably. It's a behavioral issue that you alone can control. If Diddy and his friends choose not to, that's fine. But don't blame that shit on the white guys.

What he did was wrong that was his son and he should pay for what he did..But you have to ask yourself what would you do..No one will ever know what the emotional state that man was in at that moment..This case has to be judged by emotion..

I'am soo angry right now I can't put it in words. Just looking in the fathers face makes me sick to my stomach. He sitting there like he has no remorse at all! This was done intentonally he knew what he was going to do when he got over there! This is the devils work! And his girlfriend had everything to do with this. She is a very dangerous individual and she needs to be serving a life sentence with him! And his mother, I'am soo sorry you had to witness something like this. Just remember god will be the judge at the end! No man will be albe to save him then! He is the judge and the jury...

@Officer Pat... you keep being so sensible, astute, observant, deductive, engaged, color-blind, kind and hopeful like this, I may have to bear your children. Bravo, dear soldier, bravo.

Karen u can go suck a fat D**K. You worthless piece of white trash. And for all the losers that talk trash about blacks behind your computers. You can try initiating your thoughts in person. You Freaking heartless cowards. Smh

I learned something (again) on the History channel last night, African tribes have been selling it's own into slavery to other countries for many many eons...how is this a white on black issue exclusively? *fffft...gurglegurglegurgle*
Hey alexa-

We need to pray

People Listen, this is not about whether a Black Father did this or a White Father. Its about a Father taking the law into his own hands and doing the unthinkable to his child. It does NOT always have to be about race in this world. White, Black whatever COLOR is not the issue. The issue is why this father took the law into his own hands without first notifying the authorities and have the boy taken to juvenile hall until an investigation could be conducted. The father chose to do the unthinkable, and is right where he belongs, and it's NOT because he is BLACK, its because he killed someone.
Please stop making this a Race issue, it's about loosing a life, a small boy lost his life. His father acted as the JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER! It just is not right. My prayers go out to Ms. Pinkney and her family!

Officer Pat
Sorry for the laspe, but I had to get some sleep. I knew that the Holocaust would soon be discussed. When people began to talk about race between blacks and whites the Holocaust is always compared to slavery. Well let me go on the record to say that the Holocaust was a horrible tradegy for about 6 to 9 millions Jews. No agrument there. But here is where you and I part company. Tell me how in your mind that 6 to 7 years of tradegy compare to 300 years of injustice. Telll me how in your mind that millitary allies marching into Germany to save the Jews (rightly so) compare to The Union Army hundreds of years later fighting a civil war to finally liberate the slaves. Where were the allies for the slaves. Pat this is not a tit for tat. This is tring to understand each other. Why is it that the Holocaust means the same to you as slavery?? Is it maybe that Jews look more like you, therefore you can identify with the wrong done to them and can not even suggest that slavery did leave damage among the African-American race.

Please understand that the concentration camps were dreadful, they were horrible, they were wrong they were man's inhumanity to man. I get that. But in no way in my opinion could six years of concentration camps be near as bad as 300 hears of slavery. The movement of people from their culture, their names, their heritage etc. Please try for one minute to understand that. Remember that Black people are not the only race who has suffered injustices. I am not claiming that, this is not a race war, this is just my attempt to get you and others to understand the effect that slavery has on African Americans. Think what the effects of living on reservations has on the NATIVE AMERICAN.
I am not pointing a finger at anyone.

The article that you sent about the hypertention in blacks was only an opt ed piece. That was Obasogie's opinion. I can agree to disagree with it. You seem to be fair minded enough to know and accept that enviromental and social factors play a very important part in disease.

I have said over and over again that I do not blame white society for the many ills in the black community. I too can see that WE have a lot of work to do!!! But it is people like you who will not acknowledge that slavery just might have been traumatic for the people who endured it. This stress that affected my great great great grandmother as a slave woman also affected my great great grandmother, that affected my great grand moter, then affected my grandmother, then affect my mother then affected me, then my children in the womb!!! My Great great grandmother was the slave master's child. Can you even began to understnad what her mother went through to bear a baby for a man that owned her!!!.

Please understand I did not raise my children to hate white people, I did not raise my children to be lazy, criminals, drug addicts or the like. My children was raised with a strong sense of self, a good dose of respect, a determination that the sky is the limit. They were raised with a strong work ethic, they are educated, good citizens of the world. They are productive, and God fearing and the like ( I might be a bit bias they are by no means angels). But at the same time they were raised with a healty knowlede of their history and heritage. I am only saying that as an African American I feel and have felt the lasting effects of slavery.

You are always referencing Dr.King, this man was non-violent yet he was met on a daily basis with violence and hate. One of the finest Americans that ever lived. He changed the course of history, yet a day for a nation to celebrate his birth was met with such disdain. Why was that?? Could it have been because he was a direct decendant of slavery. I can't see any other reason. If you had been alive during this time would you think that you would have been a person who opposed Dr. King. It seems to me that you would have, because you are still not understanding his message. You say that Dr. King wanted equality, he did but he also wanted truth. He wanted America to accepts the damage that slavey caused. He reconized that without acknowledemnet of the past the future would not change.
Where is the truth in you and others like you who will not acknowledge the lasting horrors of slavery. Please understand the past history of American is not all good, there is no shame in admitting that. America has done great things. Not all of the country's history is bad I have never said that. But if you really want to live in a color-blind society then lets do the hard work and get there.
Let's acknowledge that ther is enough blame to go around let began to heal, and walk a mile the other man's shoes before we condemn him.

I think the best message for this is to watch the movie A TIME TO KILL. I don't know if you have seen it but the most compelling part of the movie was when the defense attorney summarized the brutal beating and rape of a little black girl by two white men. The actor Matthew McCaunghey described the attack to the jury. He asked them to close their eyes and imagine the things that was done to her. Then he asked them to imagine that she was a little white girl. That sums it up for me. I knew at that moment the father of this girl would be found not guilty. It's sad that the jury could not understand the pain of this black family's plight until the girl appeared white in their minds. Maybe you should close your eyes and imagine that your grandfather stood on an auction block and was sold away from your grandmother and his children. How do you think that would have affected the outcome of your family. Maybe just maybe it would be me bragging about my Black grandfater who stormed the beaches of Normandy.

To Pete Kotz,
Thank you for your insight. But I respectfully disagree with you. I must say that the family structure did break down heavily in the 1970's. in both black and white communties. Some contribute this to the drugs that entered America during the war. However black famlies suffered long before that. During the reconstuction period, black men who faced racial terrorism by the KKK and other groups escaped by leaving their wives and children behind. Blacks were not permitted a legal marriage before the end of slavery. (hence jumping the broom). After slavery, when Blacks started banks and stores and businesses due to the seperate but equal laws, men that were not killed to stop progress in the black community fled to save their lives, leaving wives and children behind. This and other injustices contributed to the break down of the Black family.

Pete Kotz said:

I think you're right in the sense that you can't discount history, Janice. It's no coincidence that the people treated the worst in this country -- black and Indians -- have also had the hardest time prospering. But I don't think you can blame it entirely on history.

Black people had thriving neighborhoods and commercial districts going back to the 40s and 50s in the north. And by the '70s, a whole lot of opportunities were opening up. But 40 years later, the problem of black men -- and men in general -- abandoning their families has only accelerated at a rapid pace. I guess I attribute much of that to men abandoning the traditional role of provider and protector, black men especially. There's one neighborhood in Cleveland, where I live, that has something like a 97 percent birthrate of children born out of wedlock.

So the question becomes, why is this still happening -- and still gaining momentum -- despite huge economic and social gains? As a man, I'd assert that we as a gender have turned into narcissistic candy-asses, black men in particular.

But I guess I abide by the rules of old school manliness, which dictate that you don't get to blame anyone or anything else when you fail to show up. You just gotta show up, because no one wants to hear about your excuses anyway. Or at least that's what I expect of myself.

hellfire Pete-way to go!!!

Pete, I also find that the insistence on the part of women that we can raise a child by ourselves has played a part in tacitly encouraging men to skirt their responsibilities. The Law of Unintended Consequences: Sexual Revolution edition.

It is simply not true that a woman can raise a well-rounded, balanced and socially responsible child by herself. Parenthood is a two person job, no way around it.

That women have struggled to do so, and many largely succeed, at great personal sacrifice, is no small feat. However, little extra prices are being paid by her and her children, compounding every year that goes by without a strong male role model.

However, look at all the humans burning down. This is true of children raised by a single parent in general, BTW, so do not misunderstand that I think it's all the mother's fault.

I remember reading an article in Discover magazine years ago that discussed a study of the influence on daughters by their fathers. Of the conclusions reached, one was that girls would enter menses later when they had fathers present. They discovered that it was the scent of the father that triggered the biological signal.

I expect that a study will draw similar conclusions about the side effects of men only raising children.

There are too many negative ramifications to the child when they are forced to be raised with only one of their parents. However, as long as women run a higher risk of being maimed or killed by the man of the house, this will continue to remain very difficult to address.

Too many women still are staying with abusive husbands when they shouldn't. Too many stay thinking it is better for the children when the exact opposite is true.

And too many people in general are so shallow that the idea of getting involved with someone who has children is simply a non-starter in the dating arena.

Speaking as a single mother, a fellow human, a fellow American, thank you for showing up and standing up.

Pete Kotz said:

I think you're right about the sexual revolution and hippie days in general, Alexa. You can understand people wanting freedom back then given the strictures of the times. But for every person who gets that freedom, there's gotta be someone else to compensate by busting their balls, going to work, putting food on the table, etc. That was the traditional role of the father. It was a pretty good deal, really, because it allowed everyday men to be big in our own world. All it took was tenacity and effort.

But I think we took from those times that everyone should seek their own happiness irrespective of others, which is really a goofy concept that ignores the reality of the world. And the problem is that it's always the kids who pay for it. I guess I just find men like that chickenshit. Their weakness shames me as a man.

Janice, are you serious? You really think the persecution of Jews was limited to six years in the concentration camps? The Holocaust was the worst horror in a long line of horrors. How about the enslavement in ancient Egypt, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, and the current situation in Israel since 1948? I'm not going to "rank" the atrocities here because I think it's insulting to the victims, but it is really ignorant that you refuse to see the parallels here, and then you'd actually accuse me of siding with the Jews because they bear more resemblance to me. Remember, Janice, you're the one pulling the race card here, not me.

My point in bringing the Jews up is that both slavery and the Holocaust were terrible tragedies, but Jews don't blame ongoing shortcomings on the wrongs they suffered in the past.

For you to ask where the effort was to save the slaves, how about the 360,000 Union warriors who died on their behalf? That's over 100,000 more than died freeing the Jews in WW2. What more did you want?

The hypertension theory has been thoroughly discredited by science. I could post more links showing how much of a laughing stock it is in the medical community, but I'm not going to waste my time.

Janice, I am admitting to you, SLAVERY WAS AN INCREDIBLE TRAGEDY. It's not my point or my intention to state anything else. Slavery sucked. But it's been over for 145 years! And you said it yourself: "But it is people like you who will not acknowledge that slavery just might have been traumatic for the people who endured it."

Key word: people who ENDURED it. Slavery was terrible for your great great great grandmother. It is not terrible for you. And for you to sit here and claim that is, is to simply make excuses for your shortcomings. And like Pete, I adhere to the rules of old school manliness. Your failures are yours alone, no one else is to blame, and you just gotta show up and play because no one else wants to hear the bullshit.

Furthermore, how long is this excuse supposed to go on? You say you want to move on, but here we are, 5 generations and 150 years later, and we're still talking about the residue of slavery. When are you gonna cut it out? Am I supposed to tolerate this attitude forever? I don't think so, and if you think so, moving on and finding racial harmony isn't as high on your priorities as you claim it to be.

What's it gonna take to move past this? Congress took the time a few years ago to offer an apology for slavery (what a retarded waste of time), we've created policies of affirmative action and and we've waged a war on poverty that's cost the American people $16.4 TRILLION (MLK envisioned reparations in the amount of a mere $50 billion), and I'm telling you right here and now that slavery was a terrible thing. What more do you want?

@Alexa, thanks for your continuing kindness and support. The world could use more people with our beliefs!

I think janice is a little narrow minded-just a little

*WILD APPLAUSE AND CHEERS* Officer Pat you made every argument I was about to make if you hadn't come back yet and You.Hit.It.Out.of.the.Frikkin'.PARK!!!!!

(I hope you appreciate the baseball analogy *S*! ... There's always tonight! *she added brightly in a feeble attempt at cheering up*)

I love the baseball analogy, Alexa. Such a great game. Seriously, I LIVE for baseball. It's the most beautiful thing in the world. I just hope the Sox play like they know how, and don't suck tonight.

Pete Kotz,

as usual when White America sneezes, Black America is in the ICU with the flu. I agree that the break-down of the black family can not be totally blamed on the past. I agree with you that the sexual revolution of the 1960's and 70's took its toll on all famlies. The reason that I started this blog was to try and explain the harm that racism has caused to this country. Pete you said it best that the weakiest among us will perish or be effected the most. That being said I do feel that men and especially black men need to stand and deliver. I too realize that men have dropped the ball. I hate the sagging pants, I hate the disrespect that is shown to women.

I am upset that there are more young black men in prison than college. But in my community that has always been the case. There were always more black men in the cotton fileds than in school. So today's stats are not surpising to me. They are hurtful but not surpising. There has always, since the begining of the Black man in this country been black children without a father or even a mother to protect and guide them.

Yes Pete things should be different in my opinion but the facts are that they are not. I was only tring to talk about where the problem started, therefore maybe we can finally pin point the problem's end.

Now brothers, do not think that I feel that all black men have dropped the ball. I know that there of thousands of you who takes his roll as a father, a husband, a son and a good citizen to heart. I know that there are plenty of black men who are educated, who work, head up companies, Doctors, Lawyers, Judges etc. I am only tring to let others know that the road that you traveled was twice as hard. The chances that you would live to get there was fewer than your white counterpart. Then once you got there you were still not afforded the same respect, the same pay the same opportunity as your white counter part.

Pete, this is all that I am tring to say. A lot of the problems in the Black community is rooted in slavery. I know that slavery ended 147 year ago (on paper) but the truth of the matter is that the effects of it is still alive and well.

Example I watched President Obama address congress a few months back. I heard a elected offical call this black man a lie. I was appalled. It is one thing to disagree with the President, It is one thing to disagree with his policies and or politics, but I have NEVER heard a white President being called a liar in the open halls of Congress!! Has anyone else. Again this man has paid his dues, he is a self made man, The American people voteded him into office, BUT because he is 50% Black is is hated. The Office in which he holds does not even seem to garner him respect.

I watch the tea party with signs that depicts witch-doctors with his image.. I see old white women with monkies on their hips saying that this is the President. That can only be about race. Once agin this proves my point. Once a brother "makes it" he still is not accepted. He is almost hated for making it. Pete please research Dr. Vivian Thomas and this will further prove my point.

Janice, you're no different than any other race-baiter/racist. You want to play on the effects of slavery and mooch off free benefits as long as you can. I'm sad that I ever expected otherwise.

Morgan Freeman can see the light. He realizes how to end the problem. But you, instead, 147 years later, insist on keeping the legacy of slavery at the forefront. Why don't you take Morgan's advice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2d2SzRZvsQ

Why has he gotten over the slavery issue but you haven't? Is it because he has courage and conviction and personal responsibility? Those are values that you ought to learn.

Joe Wilson didn't accuse Obama of lying based on race. He accused him of lying based on his politics. You need to realize that Obama's politics are highly unpopular amongst conservatives and that is why they are attacked. It is only a very few people on the fringe who oppose him for his race, and the rest of us condemn those people.

Don't accuse the Tea Party of racism. Black activists themselves, such as Mary Frances Berry, have already stated that's simply a political ploy to keep the Tea Party on the defensive and off the actual topics where they can be dangerous to big government liberalism.

http://newsbusters.org/people/mary-frances-berry

Also, if you wanna talk about Obama's race, why don't you talk about the enormous support he had from the black community due solely to his race? It was almost unanimous. In part because any black who goes against the grain and supports conservative values is branded as a traitor. That's racism, if you ask me.

Officer Pat,

It is amazing that you can't seem to talk about racism without getting angry. where is this hostility coming from. You are acting like the kids in the blue eye brown eye study. You and I have been bloging only for a few hours, you have resulted to profanity, you will not stay on point. I thought that we were only talking about life in the United State, not Egypt, and other places. This race card that you referred to where is the deck. And just who holds the aces?? Please remember that I only responded after race wes interjected into the topic of Jamar Pikney, when I thought that it was not appropiate. I did not start the conversation of race.

If talking about racism, slavery and the effects there of makes you this explosive, then just imagine what living it would do to you. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA.

Let me add my voice in support of Officer Pat in correcting the idea that the modern Tea Party is a racist organization. Janice, you need to take a look at all the Black, Brown, Asian, Indian and other persons of color very well represented throughout the Tea Party.

In fact, recently a Tea Party leader was kicked out because he wrote a very poorly worded opinion piece that sounded racist. He was given the heave ho post-haste.

I know Blacks who are tired, genuinely tired of the insistence on the part of too many Blacks still on hanging on to old hurts and old grudges and refusing to let go of their color. It's tiring to have to maintain this level of unrelenting, unremitting focus on the mistakes of our long, long dead forefathers.

Some of whom, as Officer Pat rightly reminds us all, died to secure the enfranchisement of Blacks for they could not stomach their enslavement anymore.

Please Janice, please, put that burden down. Yes, there are and likely always will be persons who will not like Mr A because he is always first in line. But, so what. Morons will persist. Until we can find the gene and kill it.

There are only two circumstances in which your color is in fact material: when you go to the doctor and when you are fugitive.

Otherwise, it should not even be mentioned.

Pete Kotz said:

I don't think Janice is race-baiting, Pat. She's just speaking her mind. But I also don't think your analogy on Obama works, Janice. He didn't get elected on the black vote, because it constitutes less than 20 percent of the U.S. He got elected through the backing of a lot of white guys. And the rednecks are always gonna denounce anyone presumed liberal, just like they did with John Kerry.

Sure, there's race mixed in there. But the Tea Party guys are statistically a small part of America -- arguably no larger than black guys who won't vote for white guys. I guess my point is that we shouldn't use blowhards as emblematic of the country at large.

Almost everyone I know -- white guys -- voted for Obama. And almost all of them are starting to turn on the guy. Not because they suddenly don't like black guys, but because they consider him too weak to make things happen. And that's the beauty of it: He's being held to the same standards that we'd hold white Democrats to.

Janice, it makes me angry because your incredible ignorance does nothing but hinder the healing process. You claim to be anti-racist, while insisting that we remain stuck on old problems committed by people who died a long time ago. It's pathetic and ignorant.

I haven't been profane, and I am staying on point. The persecution of Jews, which has occurred worldwide thus my mentioning of Egypt, is a valid analogy for this situation. It shows that there are other groups against which sins have been committed, and yet, some of these groups don't desperately hang on to those sins to justify their current actions.

If you think that is an example of me going off point, then I am afraid you are not intelligent enough to participate in this discussion.

And if I was black, judging from my beliefs in old school manliness, I would be insulted by those who looked to old crimes as justification for being shitheads in the current world. I would despise the idea of getting ahead in the world by anything other than my own hard work, just as I do now.

Pete Kotz said:

I agree, Pat, in that there's simply no upside to feeling oppressed. It may be true, it may not. But in the end it's irrelevant, because it provides nothing but the opportunity to feel sorry for yourself and perpetuate your current state. There's no possible score.

It seems to me your only choice is to rise up by any means necessary, as Malcolm X would say, simply because it's the only play on the path of betterment.

But we should also probably concede that old school hard-assism isn't for everyone. I try to bust it out on guys at work. Most of the time they'd prefer that I shut up.

Pete,

thank you for your support. I am truly not race baiting. I not sure I even know what race baiting is!!!. I did not say that President Obama was elected entirely on the Black vote. I don't know where that came from. Please read and re-read my blogs to get the full understanding. Remember that I know that Presiden Obama received about 43% of the white vote. My point was that he is being treated not with disaproval of his politics but with disrespect.

Pete you seem to be fair minded. I heard the late Tim Russert say something years ago that has stuck with me. He said his Fater, Big Tim reminded him once when he was going to interview a sitting President (I don't recall which President it was) that he (Tim Russert) and the President would come and go, but the Office of the president should always be respected. I can remember coming home from work (yes Officer Pat I work) and the interstate was totally empty. I was the only car traveling in either direstion. I looked and saw the Presidental Motorcaid on the opposite side of the highway. My heart began to beat fast. I was just a few feet away from the President of these United States. Needless to say I was elated. The windows were tinted I could not even see inside of the limo, but none the less I tried. I just wanted to catch a glance at the President.

This Presidental Motorcaid was none other than President Herbert W. Bush. I don't think that I need to tell you I did not support him or his Father in either election. But being that close to the Prsident of the United States deserved the respect of the Office in which the man held.

I totally disagreed with his politics but none the less he was the leader of the country in which I am a citizen.

Pete, I have NO Problem with President Obama being held to the standards of the Democrats. That is what it is all about. But surly this can be done without his image liken to a African (code for black) whtch-doctor.

Well then, Pete, force it on them and free the rest of us from their burden. End the welfare programs, end affirmative action, end food stamps, end the mooching. Then they'll either man up and earn their way like we do, or they'll die out/leave/disappear from out lives forever and stop trying to steal our money for their unearned privilege.

The American dream is based on our ideals and values, Pete: hard work, personal responsibility and courage. Those who can't display those traits on the path to success don't belong here and they don't deserve to benefit in our name.

Wow. Congratulations Janice. You have a job. I'm so incredibly proud of you for this amazing accomplishment.

Who was Herbert W. Bush? What office did he run for? His father ran too? Interesting. Please enlighten me!

I don't automatically respect an office. Respect is earned by individuals, not titles. My grudges, and almost all people's grudges, with Obama stem from his politics, not his race (I call you a race-baiter because you continue to insist that we care what color he is). I'd vote for a black man like Colin Powell or LTC Allan West. I'd vote for them because they share my ideals. I would NEVER vote for Obama, simply because his ideals are contrary to everything I believe in.

Pete,

Thank you for your support. I truly am not race baiting, I am not sure that I even know what race baiting is. I am simply tring to shed some light on the subject of racism. I can see why President Obama does not address race. It is an issue that most people are not ready to talk about. Maybe in the next 100 years or so. I so wanted to see this disease cured in my life time. But since I am alrady over 50 years old I guess that I can just forget it.

The subject has gone all over the map. This was never about tring to make some one fell guilt or shame. It was not suppose to result in name calling. I was glad to get people engaged to have a honest converation about an issue in our society that had gone so long without dialog. I am truly sorry if I have made any one angry or mad. Maybe I am talking to people who are much younger than myself and they just don't see where I am coming from. And maybe that is a good thing in itself. Race may not be such of an important thing anymore. I try to say that to my self over and over again. But when I read comments like the ones I read yesterday about a child who was killed by his father, then I strive to have these conversations, to no avail

There's been enough dialogue on this. There doesn't need to be more. We need to take Morgan Freeman's advice and stop talking about it. There shouldn't be black Americans or white Americans or Asian Americans. Just Americans.

So Officer Pat,

Your true self is finally revealed. End the welfare programs, end food stamps, end affirmative action, the leopard has finally shown his spots. I knew you would sooner or later. You are hung up on the old welfare queen theory. There is some mythcial woman that is taking all of your money by being on wel-fare. How silly. You want to stop affirmative action so that White women (the biggest benefactors of affirmative action) can no longer compete in the corporate world!!!! I thought that you were this type person.

This country was founded on hard work (on the backs of slaves), values( having children out of wedlock with slave women) and personal responsibility (selling their own flesh and blood on the aution block). Getting rich from their unearned priviledges etc. all at the expense of slavery. Just as you enjoy those same unearned privileges today, we are still experiencing the down side of your un due priviledges.

These traits that you spoke of the founding fathers did not have them and I sumise that you don't either. Tell me what "our name" are you referring to.

I bet the Native Americans often fell the same about you. Europeans came to this country, took it away from is natural owners, then kidnapped a race of people to work it, now that they have inherited the spoils, they have the galll to say ohters are benefiting from un-earned rights. WELL Office Pat just how am I to argue with that. Who would know more about unearned priviledges then you.

I don't have any unearned privileges, you race-baiter piece of shit. I'm in the United States military working my ass off and earning every damn thing I get so that pathetic people like you can sit here and insult my founding fathers.

You want programs like welfare and affirmative action because you're a fatass moron who can't earn a living the honest way. Shut the fuck up about slavery and how hard it is on you. You're only using it as your justification to be a mooch to decent society.

I've DESTROYED every argument you've offered, but you won't change your views at all because you're garbage who directly benefits from maintaining white guilt. Well, I have none. You can fucking die before I'll give you a damned thing.

Don't ever tell me about unearned privileges, you disgusting pile of dogshit. I'm not gonna mask my hatred for your lazy ass anymore. You're pathetic. White guilt, a stupid sentiment that was unjust in the first place, has given you so many free benefits, but instead of taking what you've already got and going on your way and maybe earning a living, you continue to try to play us for more free shit. And then you have the audacity to tell me that I'm the bigot.

Well here I am telling you to go fuck yourself. I'm done with your insults, and your narrowmindedness, and your closet racism. You're fucking garbage and you always will be. Keep the dumbass attitude for all I care. You depend on people like me for support, and I'm not going to help you up anymore. Die where you lay.

It truly bothers me that the lives of me and my brothers will be on the line for people like yourself. You represent the worst of America.

This has nothing to do with your race. It has everything to do with the fact that you refuse to put your race behind you and turn to colorblindness because deep down you know your race is the only thing you got. And I won't tolerate that.

Oy vey.

Officer Pat, it's a lost cause. You tried. You were sincere. You were clear and honest.

It doesn't matter.

C'mon on, have a drink, enjoy your game, move on to some other post where the other commenters actually choose to understand you as opposed to trying to misunderstand you.

¡Salud!

The only proof I need that you're a racist is that you falsely accuse me of having unearned privileges when you really know nothing about me other than that I'm white. You don't know that I made good grades my whole life to get into college, which I paid my way through by working since I was 15 and getting some help from my parents, and that I then joined the military where I've been ever since. I've never taken something I didn't earn, but you assume I did because I'm white. You disgust me, you racist pig.

Thanks Alexa. I will always use you as a reminder to myself that there are still hardworking Americans of all races who would die before they'd accept a handout. Those people give me hope that the America I love and believe in is still alive. Thank you for helping me keep my faith in this great nation.

2 outs away from beating the hated Twins and tying the division again. Hooah!

Janice, this is what happens when you persist in utterly ignoring every sound, sincere, thoughtful argument made against yours, and yet you persist on harping on the tried and true race-baiting rhetoric.

You had your chance and you blew it. Race baiting is intended to drive the opponent to the brink of total exasperation. It does nothing to improve relations or reach a rapprochement.

At first, you sounded reasonable, and then you showed your true stripes. So don't act like you've outed a racist, what you've done is ignore a fellow American's sincere reasoning and ended up outing your racism.

I earlier today read a news item that said Americans feel that race relations have gotten worse since the election of our half-black half-white president. Worse.

Racism is a part of the human condition. It will not change until the Lathe of Heaven.

That will not happen in our life time.

Hooah Officer Pat! I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you!

Yes dear soldier, this Mexican-Indian-Irish blooded and thoroughly American woman is deeply appreciative of you. BTW, you are not a racist. At all.

Ahh, Sox win and for one night, all is right in the world. Have an awesome evening, Alexa. :)

YAY!!!!! Hooah!!! Congrats Pat, you have sweet dreams.

Pete Kotz said:

I'm not really against welfare and food stamps and the like, Pat. Statistically speaking, the majority who use them are suffering from short term hardship and are on them for six months or less. And the longterm recipients are generally worthless mothers, but you only hurt their kids when you cut them off. Besides, traditional manliness dictates we gotta look out for the women and children. I wish there was a better solution, but I don't know what that is.

I'm kinda mixed on affirmative action. I like it for college admission, because it's about opportunity, and generally speaking black kids are at a disadvantage because more come from urban schools, which blow. They're generally disadvantaged in this case through no fault of their own, other than being poor.

But I don't like them for occupational tests, like the police and fire exams. It seems weirdly racist to have lower expectations of certain people, as if they're incapable of reaching regular standards. And we don't do this for electrician or doctor tests, because they're designed as a benchmark of knowledge for the job.

So I guess I'm pretty much in favor of looking after women and children. But if it doesn't involve kids, it's time to rise up.

But you're right on another thing: I have zero respect for the office. I think most of our elected officials, especially in Congress, are moralless, self-absorbed candy-asses. I'm gonna automatically distrust the office, because it's usually occupied by a whore. Respect has always gotta be earned, as the Great Spirit intended.

Pete Kotz said:

I don't think Pat's a racist, Janice. He's just more conservative on these things, and a lot of people don't like welfare programs for fiscal reasons, because they think someone's getting over on their dime. And it seems to me the only people getting unearned rights are the rich folks. Everyone who can't afford a lobbyist and four-figure campaign donations is pretty much on their own.

Maybe it's just the difference between white and black, but it seems that white guys feel that we've already talked about race too much, and black guys feel we haven't had the conversation yet. I don't like talking about it much, just because Alexa's right: it's part of the human condition. My own grandfather didn't want me to marry a German woman because they are inferior. It just goes on and on.

So it's best to accept conditions as they are and quietly plot the best you can to beat them. Not because it's the ideal move; it's just the only move at our disposal.

Right on Pete. Though I agree with most of what Pat says, when it comes to helping the less fortunate who have no way of pulling themselves out of their misfortune, I also have no problem helping them. Poor health can derail the most principled of us and it can be completely demoralizing. And vicious cycle ensues that only the personal intervention of a caring person can break.

I'm pretty sure Pat would agree with us but didn't have an opportunity to spell that out during the above exchange.

Isn't it way past your bedtime? Dude, it's past my bedtime LOL!!!

Officer Pat,

Keep your chin up. Stay safe and may God Bless.

Pete,

I did not call Pat a racist. I did not call any names. I can handle people with differnt points of view. I started this conversation in the hopes that maybe I would learn something new from perhaps a white person's point of view. Or maybe someone would learn something from me. Pat and I agreeded on severl issues. But he seemed not to respond to any thing we had in common. Instead all I got was name calling and the same old reasonings. I did not bring up welfare, I did not bring up the subject of unearned privledges. But it seems that for white people these subjects are one and the same with racism.

Pete I am sorry that your Grandfather does not want you to marry a girl from Germany, this is exactly to me why racism must be addressed. Alexa Kim said that she read an article that said race relations have gotten worse since President Obama has taken Office. Why is that?? the only reason that I can think of is because he is Black. The man has done nothiong to insight race, but non the less race is an issue. We can no longer pertend that it isn't. I mentioned earlier that I have two biracial grandchildren. My grandson is three and he wants to know what color his hand is?? I place my hand next to his hand and let him determine what color his hand is!!

I want all of my grandchildren to live in an America that is much kinder to them then America was to me.

That only comes with understanding and respect for each other regardless of one's color, or nationality, heritage etc. We can no longer act as if race does not matter. President Obama is doing this to keep the peace in America, but it is not working. The President is truly tring to be a President for all people. Glen Beck called the man a racist. That is absurd the man's Mother was white. How could anyone began to think this man is a racist. He took himself from a church that he had attented for 20 years because most of White America did not understand the pain that Rev. Wright felt and then preached about it.

Did you not know that the civil rights movement started in the church...DR. King preached sermons all the time about the injustices in America. Was he a racist or was he un-American??

Janice, just to respond to one point and then I'm done, but it is my opinion that race relations have worsened because people appear to feel more free to accuse another of being a racist, not necessarily because there is more racism.

There will be no meeting of the minds on this issue, and certainly not here.

Goodnight.

I am not sure if this was already posted on here, (I got sick of the racist back and forth, so I just panned on down to the bottom). It was reported on MSNBC that the 3yr old girl suffered lacerations to her vaginal wall, when asked what happened she acted out "a humping motion", when asked what her reaction was, she said she cried because it hurt. It sounds like he did rape her. I'm not sure how I feel about what happened... on one hand, I just have anger and disgust at the young man, and part of me wonders if what the father done maybe wasn't so bad...did he stop a serial child rapist-in-the-making? On the other hand, 15 is so young, could this teen have been rehabilitated? Idk, I can't take a firm stance on either view, the whole situation is sad. I pray for peace and comfort for his mother, and strength and comfort for the baby girl.

The same old reasoning? That's really sad, Janice. That you could look at facts and analogies and reason in response to every argument you had, and yet, you could ignore it outright and then write it off as the "same old reasoning". If it is the same old reasoning, it's because it's true. It's not our fault that you will never learn.

As for Obama being racially divisive, well, first off, take note of the people who voted for him based on his race. If someone had come out of the voting booths on that fateful day and said, "I voted for Obama because I believe spreading the wealth around is the best way to heal the economy", I would have disagreed but I would have respected their actions for being based in ideology. But for the people who came out and celebrated what they believed was the righteousness of voting for a black person, I find that morally repugnant. To have one of the most critical elections in American history and people go out there voting based on a predetermined biological trait, that's insulting the democratic process. And on the same token, find me a white man who voted against Obama because of his race, and I'll rebuke him too. Does his skin color make him better at healing the economy? Defeating terrorism? Fixing healthcare? No, it doesn't. So those voters who did consider his black skin in ANY FASHION are disgustingly ignorant.

And then there is the automatic rebuttal to any criticism of Obama that the critic is racist. I saw a guy after the election, a white guy, who said that a black friend of his who voted for McCain should be ashamed of himself. So now we're not just voting based on skin color, we're bashing those who don't! And it's continued ever since. The Tea Party shows up and stands in complete opposition to Obama's big government, and they are hassled endlessly with accusations of racism. If that's not racially divisive, I don't know what is.

As for Obama himself, he constantly made reference to his race and tried to accuse sections of the American public of discrediting purely based on race. Take the "clinging to guns and religion" speech for instance. First he suggests that some of us are skeptical of his big government crap because it's coming from a "46 year old black man named Barack Obama" (no, Barry, it's because big government blows). And then he says we cling to "guns and religion and antipathy" out of our cynicism. So if we don't support him and his socialist shit, we're simply gun-toting (uh, ever hear of the 2nd Amendment?) religious nuts who don't care about the current problems. And he expects to use these words to gain our support? Either he's still doing cocaine, or he's an idiot.

Again, Janice, I reiterate that there are black men whom I would vote for to an elected office. Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell and war hero Allan West come to mind. And my vote for them has everything to do with the fact that they stand in support of limited government, and nothing to do with the fact that they are black. Additionally, I respect the fact that I believe any of those three could run without EVER using their race. That would do more to inspire racial harmony and unity than Barry's constant mention of historical racial injustice ever will.

And we can no longer act as though race doesn't matter? What exactly have we been doing for 400 years? Has it cured anything? Making race relevant by continuing to put it in the political and social spotlight is the LAST thing our society needs.

Go watch the Morgan Freeman video again. I don't think it got through to you.

are you guys still on this? wow...

Well Officer Pat, I am stunned that you are still willing to talk about racism. Let me address your last issue first. For Morgan Freeman to say not to talk about racism in my opinion is simply evading the issue. How ironic for you send me a video that implies that I should not talk about my history or my past. I say it is ironic because yesterday in a blog to me you had to let everyone know your personal history about your grandfather being a hero in your eyes because he stepped ashore on the beaches of Normandy. I get that, just like YOU think your past is important, then SO DO I about my past. It might not be as heroic in your eyes, but it is to me. Also remember, just as I do not speak for all Black people neither does Morgan Freeman. Like the Black man who voted for McCain I have my on thoughts. I know that you will agree that I have a RIGHT to disagree with Morgan Freeman. Maybe that is the way that Morgan Freeman fills, but by not talking about racism has not done anything to solve this problem.

Again today you noted that you have made anologies that I seemed to ignore. Just what anologies were those. You talked about the Holocaust, and how well Jews have survived after it. Well I agree the Jews did well after Holocaust, here are some of the reasons why. They were given reprarations for the genocide that occured. They were given back most if not all of the wealth that they lost in the Holocaust. Germany returned their valuable art work, the jewels, etc. They they were given Isreal. And have oppressed the Palestians ever since. I know that you will say that I am Anti-Jewish but I am not. I am only saying what is true. Check out your favorite source Wikipedia. But I do not take you to be ill-informed, and somehow I think you already know this fact. I also know that White America thinks that the Gaza strip and the rest of Isreal was given to the Jews in the Bible. I am not going to disprute this one way or the other. I do identify with the Palestians because I have lived with oppression. I do not understand why the Jews and the Palestians can not live in harmony in Isreal. You mentioned Helen Thomas last night, I think she told the truth. I have watched this reporter for years, I hate she lost her job for telling the truth.

I am not Anti-Jewish, matter of fact I do not HATE anyone, I do not know what hate fills like. I however understand that when a people is oppressed long enought then they will retaliate with any means neccessary. I do not agree with the blood shed of any people. But I reconize that people will fight to survive. When your children are hungry, your people are killed, you live day to day with you basic needs being denied, this will trigger your need to survive. So I know that it does not sretch your imagination when I say I see myslf on the side of the Palestians.

Then please consider how many people were tried in courts around the world for the war crimes that was done to the Jews. How I wish some one whould have felt the same about the wealthy plantation owners of the deep south. Instead all African-Americans got was that "retarted" (your word, not mind) apology for slavery hundreds of years later. I whished Clinton would have kept his "retarted" apology and would have given me a valuable oil painting,or jewels or something I could have taken to Bank of America. I know that you would have seen that as an unearned privledge but what did you call it when the Jews recovered.

Your next point, you talked about criticism about President Obama I get that you are a Republican, I know that you do not support President Obama, that Officer Pat is your right. I have NO PROBLEM with that. I am a Democratic and would probably NEVER vote for a Republican. That is my right. Here is where I differ from you. Not all Republicans are bad people. Matter of fact I have high regards for John McCain. He was a war hero, he use to be fair in his views on many issues (yes I know he voted against Dr King's Hoilday). But I agree with his "old" view on immigration. I respect Colin Powell, but if he ran for President I would not vote for him (even though he believes in affirmative action) I believe that he is a good man, a good person, but I disagree with his idealogy.

As For President Obama talking about his race, I watched the the debates, I watched the campaign stump, I watched interviews, I do not recall him making race an issue. If tuth be told I was angry that he did not address race until the video of Rev. Wright came out on Fox News. I thought here was a Black Man that White America understood. He would be or so I thought, the best person to explain race. What fool I was!!! White America is not trying to understand race!!!!. Maybe it is too painful for them just like it is painful us....

I know what the person meant by telling the other person he shoud be ashammed for not voting for Obama. I don't know if I have the words or the wisdon to explain those types of feelings to you. I am not saying that I totally agree with that sentiment but I UNDERSTAND it. The Bible says and my Father always stressed that in all your getting get understanding. I think understanding a thing or a person makes like better.

Janice, it's official, and I'm actually saying this as gently but forthrightly as possible: you're delusional.

And, your poor grammar and spelling, very poor knowledge of history and defective reasoning are actually hurting you.

It is my earnest advice to everyone to walk away.

So very, very unfortunate.

Again, I heartily suggest we leave it at agreeing to disagree. I think that is an honorable place to rest.

Buena suerte.

@ Alexa....very gently well said.

I was going to say " Girl, you are off your rocker!"

But your way was alot ...well...gentler.

*walking away*

Nice try, Janice, but I don't think you're anti-Jewish. I think you're a blithering idiot.

A quick aside, I have $100,000 for the first person who can tell me what hate "fills" like. For empirical evidence, I'd advise you to shit in one hand, put hate in the other. See which one fills up first.

I'm done here.

well done Officer Pat-you're nicer than I would have been and I commend you on that.

How bout we all just say a little prayer for this little angel and his sister (who will no doubt struggle with this her whole life:

"The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

-Amen

Officer Pat,

I wished you were done!!! But somehow I think you will continue sticking you head in the sand, and not facing the truth. Notice you resulted to profanity, name calling and just plain rudeness just like people do when they have noting worth saying. Young Black kids say "you flipped the script",

Pat stay well, Be safe, you fought a good fight. Maybe when you get a little more age on you, and a little more life experiences maybe something I've said here will take root. I am sure you will not forget this conversation.

Good-bye

LouLOU,

Well said, I totally agree that this entire family need prayer. And I for one will always remember them in my prayers. I can not imagine what Ms. Chery, Ms. Ivie or Mr Pikney Sr. must be going through.

*rolls my eyes at Janice*

LouLou, very sweet gesture and I joined you in reciting the prayer for the little girl, this boy, and, actually, for the father too.

Officer Pat if you do happen by here again, please know that your last comment was price perfect. Come join us at the Tonia Franklin post where we can abuse the subject freaks with gusto!

*walks away*

Janice said good bye.....she is leaving??

Oh thank God....I didn't realize that reading "dribble" could give me the same migrain as actually hearing it. So I guess Janice did actually help someone learn SOMETHING today.

Sharon, I think we need to rename Janice Bob -- because she keeps bobbing back up from the stew. Chaysus Mairee und Choseff!!

Seriously, no, really, I am really walking away now because I don't want to be an alkyhawlick. No.

Oh and Janice, Pat did indeed fight a good fight and he kicked your ass like a red headed child molester ALL over this thread.

So now I ask this...In a land where slavery no longer exist...how does it feel to be OWNED..(as the young black kids that you love to quote say)?

Haha, thanks guys. Kicking her ass like a red headed child molester, I like that one, Sharon. Think I'll use it in other situations if ya don't mind.

And I don't mean to be a Bob like Janice, but did anyone else notice that she even misspelt words that she quoted from me? "Retarded" becomes "retarted" when quoted by the retarded. *facepalm*

Pat..use and enjoy..no copy write yet...LOL

ok. I guess i can wade in here. Seeing as i come from a very long line of southern men who choose centuries ago, to actually own black people. I do not approve of any type of salvery. then or any that happens now. and yes, we still have salvery now. We only see or hear of it when a murder takes place or a kidnapping ect.

Over three hundred years later, and still i am living this. As some southerns are idiots and stupid (Rednecks?) and still think the south is going to raise again (I like that saying BTW....!) The truth of the matter, is most southern's are ashamed as to how our forefathers (Greats and greats and ect) choose to live. And even though we (southerns) don't care for certain actions, other are less likely to speak up for what is actually believed, so that others think they are as stupid as they are. 85% of all southern's ARE NOT happy with a lot of things going on in the news right now. Just like the rest of the nation. and i'm only saying 85% because, as we see in the news reports, the other 15% think their shit don't stink.

I personally have lived through : KKK picnics, i have lived through going to schools that did not allow blacks. I have lived through riots. ect ect. I heard (but couldn't learn) MLK's speach. I know it now. And i find it is very true for the time that it was spoken. But this isn't the past 250 yrs! This is NOW. As America is a melting pot of different people, and everyone of us have different nationalities in our blood, not one person in the USA can honestly say.... THEY ARE 100% WHITE,BLACK,BROWN,YELLOW

So everyone needs to get off the race train and actually be a PERSON! We are all the same color inside and we all bleed the same color. Everyone is much aware there are Bad Apples in all bunches. And when people make statement towards a full nationalities due to one person (and i'm guilty of that as others are) Then we are foolish and it's unfair.

Everyone has opinions. Please stop trying to force your opinions down other's throats. It isn't tasty and just causes more then heartburn. it causes wars!

At Officer Pat: RED SOX RULE!!!!!!!!! PARTY AT MY HOUSE THIS WEEKEND!!!!!!!

AKA Bob,

OK kids I do admit I am not the best speller in the room neither would I get an award for typing, but I must say I am better at debating then any of you. Maybe that is what maturity and wisdom do for you. I was respectful, truthful, kind, and knowledgeable about the subject matter. which is more than I can say for any of you. Officer Pat, I must say I did find you informed. Sharon are you the same Sharon who apologized for your rantings about the frontal lobes of African Americans.

Oh, and if I mispelled any words this time, just simply make the corrections.

Anybody can father a child. This guy was not a true Dad. There is no excuse for murder. Period.

(I can't believe that there is not a moderator monitoring what is posted. Justin Igger???? REally???? I would say his real name should be Ignor Ant.)

@ Janice...just couldn't stay away huh? you just HAD to know what others MIGHT be saying.

And to answer your question..no, this Sharon (me) is not the same from way up top from a year ago. I do not rant about anything.

And it is nice to know that after saying Pat was basically an idiot and he didn't know what he was talking about, you finally acknowledge that he is informed.

Angry grandma,

Thank you for a voice of reason. It has been a while since I've heard some one say something other than insults..I too believe that opinions that lacks understanding lead to wars.

"but I must say I am better at debating then any of you."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You're the dumbest dipshit I've ever met. I destroyed your emotional arguments with logic and facts. You ignored them entirely, so I've decided it's much more fun for me to just make fun of you.

You're not good at shit. You're a fatass old hag who thinks she knows stuff. But the only thing you've proven to us is that you're uneducated and delusional, and like the old adage goes, you can't argue with crazy.

So I'm not arguing anymore. I'm just going to insult you until you don't feel like playing anymore. Feel free to keep trying me. I can be a dickhead all day long.

And Angry Grandma, sorry to break it to you, but I'm a White Sox fan. The REAL Sox! :)

Sharon, can you believe she still thinks she's better at debating than the rest of us? Isn't that precious? I'm really shocked that they have this much computer time at the institution.

Yes Pat..she is just so precious and special...hope she remembers her pink helmet when she gets on the special bus.

*slap* white sox my butt!! Reds all the way...maybe it won't take them another 90+ years to win Series. *sigh* But it was freaking great!!!!

I believe Janice has a family full of trouble and wants to blame it on anything but where the blame lies

Agreed, at both of you (Sharon and CW). Except for the baseball stuff. The Reds? Pfft...

@martha, LOL! No, don't want to be an Ignor Ant, noooo. Sometimes Pete just misses some of the trollishness and outright racist comments but he's usually pretty good about keeping it under control.

@Officer Pat, LOL!!! Sharon, you're such an instigator. Pat might have to thumb wrestle you for that gauntlet you done thrown down.

Very cordially lurking,
"Bobbette" *stifles ggls*

ok before ANYONE comes at me: I am not on any sides on this debate. I just made my opinions known. and i have not opened myself up to be attacked.

I try very hard to live by one rule: PROTECT MYSELF!

and to also say: Officer pat, your service is a undeclared act of kindness. What you have done in and out of the USA is honorable. I too, do not believe any action from any nationality towards anyother person is "better or worst" then stuff from history. (quick question: u MP? My dad was for 24 yrs!. U in or out of USA?)

But that's the key word here everyone: HISTORY

We as Human beings, we are suppose to learn from past mistakes. And our History of the USA has had some major mistakes happen in it. Starting when the Europeans stole land from the Indians. Up until yesterday. it's all history and we shouldn't be drawing on events in our history that shaped our country, such as it is. We (meaning 2010) have more then our share of events now that need attention. and with all the different colors and different languages that we encounter on a day to day basis, Not one group should scream: RACE!!!!!!!

Janice, you may seem to be a smart woman. And i would also be bold and say you are a black american woman. (you are not in africa) But white people now should not be held responisble for what our forefathers did. that is saying, we pay for the sins of our fathers.
Just as i, as a white person, would not talk smack about you as a black woman just because somewhere in my blood/past a black person did harm to someone in my family. And i'm sorry, that's how i was taking your comments. I told them personally as a white person. That you were making my race pay for the sins of our forefathers.
Now you may not have meant that. But whenever a person declares the race card, for whatever fricking reason. That's exactly what they are doing.

I honestly believe all colors need to really put this race card away. And in response to this comment and this story: the male person had NO RIGHT to do what he did. I give 2 shits as to color. He decided his will is greater then GOD and our laws. he was and is wrong. and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. he could be skyblue pink with white polka dots and i would still say the same fricking thing.

Janice, you need to step back and breath. Be greatful to be alive no matter your skin color. We are all children of God, Allah, Jehova, whatever your God's name is. No one is here today, that choose to be here. We were put here to achieve what ever higher grace we can. and my achievements are to educate my children and grandchildren as to what type of people they come from. and to educate them that no one wants to be friends with someone who thinks they are "holier then thou". Sorry, off the soap box preaching!

Lord i need a nice drink about now.

Can we stop the debate? Even someone who doesn't understand or compehend another views, just agree to disagree. Give and take. Compermise! OK SPELLING NAZI'S COME AND GET ME. I'm fired up and can't remember how to spell again!!!!! Bring it on!!!!

I knew you couldn't stay away, Alexa. It's like a bad trainwreck. You just can't help but look.

I know you can't argue with crazy people, but if they're willing gluttons for punishment, I'm more than happy to make them "fill" like shit. Hey, why not?

ok that is war officer Pat!!!! Weither the Red or the White. Soxs are Soxs. Mine might not be as great as yours, and i don't follow them actually. Better half and my dad and 99% of the people in New England do. I'm a Atlanta Braves fan!!!!! :) south all the way!!!

Kudos Sharon on the Red's!!!! My dad lived long enought to see them win. I got him tickets and brought him to MA from maine just for that game! he was dying of renal failure. He arrived in style! Limo and all! I was even able to get some autographs for him that night! He died the following january.

So i will rote for them in his memory!!! Still party at my house this weekend. After i send out my 5 care packages to our soldiers over seas, Send them every other week! i will be hitting the packy for refreshments!!!!

Nope, Angry, I'm an infantryman. I've got friends who are MPs though. It's legit. :)

Oh cool. Atlanta's not too far from me, and given my love for baseball, I've been to a few games up there. Beautiful ballpark.

It was especially awesome when I got to see Ubaldo Jimenez throw his no-hitter there earlier this year. From the front row, no less. That is something I'll remember the rest of my life.

if you got anyone over there that needs some Home comfort. I can give my email address to you. I have 5 troops there that i send care packages to every other week. Little letters and notes, tooth paste, personal hygiene stuff, phone cards. Just little things to make them feel that they are loved. I don't seen any food that is homemade. Only stuff that want. Like i got old Soldier who loves devil dogs! So i send him a box once a month. I also send little toys and they hand them to the small children. I tried belonging to an organization, but that got to be to much when they started begging me for money. I am trying to support our troops, not the organization.

Anyways. Didn't know if you were there or here.

*standing BEHIND Grandma*
Get him Granny...let him know which Soxs are the boss..I got your back

neener neener neener Pat.....lol

Condolences on your Dad Grandma...Glad to hear that he was able to see history made for the Sox...

Hard for me to stay up with Atlanta. My old man refuses to let me watch anything but the soxs. so i sneak and check them out online!!!! But my whole family in North and South Carolina are mad crazy for them. And when i go home they tease me about the red soxs!!!

LOL! Yeah, I suck at covert ops (well, here anyway). Exactly so Pat, I wanna' turn away, yet, like a moth to a flame, here I is, getting my wings singed. LOL!!

Yeah, I'm here to get my "feel" of the smack down, I'll admit it. I may have to pop a top and some popcorn.

So, how you "filling" about your team's chances tonight?

aw now i'm going to sit here and cry. Thanks Sharon!

Been 5 1/2 yrs and i still cry. Then again, moms been gone 22 yrs and i cry over here alot to.

The memories of growing up. Well major memories. Dad was a northerner. Mom a southerner. Different backgrounds and different upbringings. so i got both!!!! And got the Army thrown in as well. Yes Sir i did!!!!

So i grew up mostly in the south. But now live in the north. Makes it hard to decide on vacations!! so i go north in the summer and the south in the winter. Or vis versa! Depends on a bunch of factors!!!!

Nah, not going to get officer Pat. he's a good guy even if he roots for the wrong team!!!!

Sharon, red sox fan: where you haling from? I'm in MA

Alexa you so silly!!!!!

Angry Grandma, currently there is no one whom I'm in close contact with who is down range (in the war zones). However I do want you to know that I appreciate what you're doing. That shows a genuine and active love for the people who are fighting for this country, and that's very respectable. Keep up the good work!

As for tonight, Alexa, I'm "filling" good! We're facing Liriano and he's a tough son-of-a-bitch. But we're in our home park where we are quite dominant, and our boy Floyd has probably been the best pitcher in baseball the last two months. He's had 12 starts in that time and allowed 11 earned runs. Absolutely incredible.

Now Alexa, you do realize (God i hope so) that if you keep up this daily intake of adult refreshments without food or sleep, that we might see you in a story on here? You might be the one pissed off that you can't get your chalupa at the bell or something. so please guzzel responisbly. Eat real food (bread sucks up the alchol) and sleep atleast 4-5 hours (and passed out doesn't count!)

Now enjoy!!!

I am originally southern born and raised. Was in Brockton Ma from 1986 to 1999. Both boys were born there. Funny thing is...it was AFTER I left that the teams stated winning Super Bowl. Man was I mad!!! LOL

I love the Sox...they use to spring train here in Winter Haven Fl and I would watch them as a little girl.

Angry grandma,

Yes I am black woman. I agree 100% with your views. But I am afraid that something I have said was lost in translation. As the kids pointed out I am not the best speller in the room, so maybe I mis-stated something that I meant to say. This is the story in a nut shell. I was watching IN Session last week where a child was killed by his father. I missed a session of the program and thought that I would update the news by thw internet. I found this sight and I began to read the comments.

I was appalled about what I read. I found that some people did not care about this family because they were a Black family. I could not believe that today in the year 2010 that such foolishness could be so blantly displayed. In thought nothing has really changed since 1960. So I posted a comment. I was foolishness enough to believe that I could make people see just how bad these comments were.

I assumed (you know what they say about assuming) that only if people understood that this family was in pain just as any family would be regardless of their color that kindness wouldl pervail. And that opened a can of worms. I must say that I felt rightly or wrongly that these comments had their origin in racism. To I got on a soap box and all hell broke out.

Grandma, like you I too am a Grandma, so I am no spring chicken. I thought that I must be reading the comments of mostly young people who had not had life experiences enough to sway their opinions. MY BIG MISTAKE. Now I am not going to go through this long blog history. But I do not now or have ever thought that this Nation or any other Nation owes me or any other Black person nothing but to UNDERSTAND race from a black person's point of view. I did make statements concerning pay back that the Jews recieved after the Holocaust. I did say that it would have been good if things like that would have happen for the slaves. But I have never given this much meanful thought. So Grandma this is were we were when you came in.

I must say that it seems that maybe you and I are from the same generation, and maybe we mitght can have a mature and honest conversation about race. Please do not take that as an invition to discuss race. I am almost afraid to talk about it any more. It seemed to stir such emotins in Officer Pat, whom I found to be sincere in his beliefs. But somewhat imature and mean spirited. If you have some time on your hands and will read the blogs I will discuss any thing that you find in my comments. That's only if it strikes your fancy.

Thanks Angry Grandma, I will follow your advice... soon... I hope... LOL!! ... probably... yeah... soonish... I will... yeah....

Pat, eggsulend, then I will continue to root for your beloved White Sox, while Angee Ganma and Sharonsky root for the eveeeeel Red Sox. Oh, that guy who attacked me years ago that I mentioned at a different thread? He was a Red Sox fan. So, needless to say, THEY SUCK!

Bring it ladies, it's ON like Donkey Kong!!!!

Only, could we move this over to the Tonia Franklin thread? Cos I just feel kinda' funny discussing baseball here. Ok?

No appreciation needed. I'm not there. so i honestly can't think what my life would be like without what all soldiers are doing. I have 2 young navy boys (young nephews) who are there. And i received my addresses from word of mouth. All the groups out there are honorable. But when they forget and beg for money from their volanteers, well it takes away from what we can send.

I understand that there are some young soldiers (and older ones) who are there and have none or limited family/friends in the states. So i make them mine. I don't email that much, cuz i know that the internet links are shaky. Besides an actually written letter/note means more. And as all on here, TCR, knows. I can write. And i can talk about pretty much anything. and if something comes up i have no clue on, i goggle it.

I have been volunteering since Desert Storm. I live on the flight path to Westover AFB and we are the 1st stop coming in from Middle east. and we are the last stop before going out. Not to many people know the emotion of seeing soldiers who haven't been in the states for a while react. breaks my heart. I have made some great friends over the past 10 yrs.

If you are over there and not war zone, you are still there and not home and stay safe. If you are stateside, God love ya! And keep up the good work.

Hey Janice, there's a difference between you and Angry Grandma. She's intelligent, reasonable and educated. You're not.

And fuck your reparations. I'm not the guilty party here, and as such, my taxes aren't going to pay for other people's mistakes. Like it or not, that's where your fancied reparations will come from. Out of my paycheck, and out of Alexa's paycheck. And it is no way right that we will pay because you felt like holding a grudge for 150 years.

That's no more than thievery, and you are nothing more than a petty thief. You won't get a damn thing if I have anything to do with it.

So go live in Liberia, you festering turd. Like the world did with Israel, we did give you a country. You guys just made that country suck. Not our problem.

So go live there, or if you choose to stay here, drop the grudge already. By the way, you never answered my very reasonable question on when we can expect you to stop relying on the race card for benefits. So when is it? It's been 150 years, and 40 since Jim Crow ended. When are you gonna knock it off and just earn your living the same way everybody else does? How much more do you think we owe you?

Janice,
I appreciate anyone honest opinions. And i have no problem discussing any subject. There are certain subjects (hint hint Alexa :) ) That boils my blood. But i believe that whatever was said at the very beginning of this thread (which was in NOV 2009) those people are not on here.

Officer pat has made some careful observations as to your comments. He (and i'm not talking for him or anyone else) in my opinion took what you were trying to say as you were we(everyone on TCR) are racists. No one on here makes racial comments unless they are attacked (yeah i know!)

But you confused me. You didn't say exactly what you were trying to say? I understand the writing/spelling thing. I joke about it. But if you were not accusing people on here as racists, then you shouldn't have hinted at it.

I have reread everything that was commented on between you, Officer Pat, pete and so forth. No one was expressing vile evil thoughts at you. Pat is not immature or mean spirited. Nor is anyone else on here. Except maybe Alexa ( gotch back peep!j/k :) And i do understand that myself, and possible you are from different generations then others on here. But i listen to what is being written/said. I actually learn some on here. You know, fresh minds fresh ideas? No one is telling you to forget who you came from. Just like i have no embarrassment as to whom i come from. I might not be proud of some of my forefathers (or my grandfather!) but i'm not them. They lived their lives. I am living mine. And the same for you. Don't be ashamed as to being a black woman. Be proud of where you are when others are tearing down what others have taking so long to build. You can't change what happened. None of us can. We can only move forward and hope that we build a different world then what was before. We both know that nothing is going to change the fact of salvary. Nor can we change anything about the Jewish horror that happened. or any other events that have happened.

But honestly, sit back and breath. This family has been torn apart. all by the actions of one MAN. he wasn't given the right by God or the law, to be judge, jury or excutioner. but he did. Now his entire families are in turmol for his actions. Unfortunately, this is a black man. But i can tell you, everyone would be slamming him if he was any other color as well. I haven't seen to many colored blind people on here as you think.

Hope this makes sense to you.

Wow. do i want to start? I don't know.

I believe janice is, such as i, from a totally different time/generation. And from where i come, there was a lot of race thrown in everyones faces. Black or white. And the past generations have been paying for the crap for 50 yrs now.

alot of the "laws" (Jim crowe, ect) were put in place to placet (spelled wrong) the black people. But those didn't work any well them any of the others.

Quick little southern story:

As a young child, i had mammy. Yes a older black woman (actually the same one who took care of my mom in the 30's) who raised me for 2 years. And they lived "other side of the tracks". When ever i was with her (i was 6-8 yrs old), everyone knew who i was. I wasn't XXXXXX, I was _____ R____'s granddaughter. When i was at school, no black child was allowed on our playground, they had their own. But, we could go there, they couldn't come to ours. If we were caught playing together, we got a paddling at school.

So yes, i can see where some thougths come in. But what the "younger" crowds are putting out over the past 30 yrs is way over the top. and people my age, sit back and "remember" when and how things were. it's scary.

But we need to all be a little more thoughtful of how someone grew up. Exspecialy if we are older.

I'm not as smart as some think. When a 7 yr old can teach me something about other people, then i think i might be pretty dumb!!! (another story about AIDs and the panic in the 80's) But the new 7 yr old can run me in circles as Well!!!!!!

Pete Kotz said:

Saw Liriano last Friday in Cleveland, Pat. He was ugly. Walked six and got rocked by the lowly Tribe. Would love to see the game tonight, but scab ESPN only believes people want to see the Yankees. (Yes, I'm not only a heretic Democrat, but as lifelong Twinkies fan.)

Pete Kotz said:

Sorry, Not Alexa, but we're up to about 400 comments a day now, so it's hard to keep abreast of them and still get any work done.

Ouch, Pete. So not cool. I HATE the Twins. As I suspect you do the White Sox...

ESPN sucks, dude. If I were you, I'd get MLB.TV. I don't know if they pro-rate that shit as the year progresses, but two months ago, at $60 for the year, it was a damn fine deal. Hell, I'm such a fan I'd still pay $60 for live White Sox baseball every night.

But I have to recommend that you don't purchase it. You're not gonna want to watch the immense ass-kicking that my Sox are about to perform. :)

Them's fightin' words A'Grandma! ROARRRRRRR!!!!! @#$%^&^%$#!!!

Yeah, I'm believable. LOL!!

I hope your words reach their goal but I'm not holding my breath.

Thanks Pete for playing along with my flimsy alter-ego, lol. Wow, 400 a day. That's some rough ram rodding - wish I could help. Of course I could shut my yappy fingers for a bit but... I dunno', that doesn't sound really all that helpful. Be nice! ;)

Wow 400? Alexa Kim - how do you manage? That's a shitload of alter egos...

Hey, if anyone likes my words great if not, whatever. That's how i roll!!! That's what gansta's say it right? lol

I just get so tired of people of all siz, shape, color, nationality slamming each other. That's why we are in a never ending war. Here and in the middle East. I read some of what was posted in the beginning. And i got really angry. Just like i think janice did. But i backed off. I didn't post anything, then. Granted when i read this stuff was like a couple of weeks ago. But still. Some of what was being posted was unbelieviable. and yes, i got a lot of Race out of the comments. so i can somewhat see what janice was referring to. But she was making the comments to the wrong set of people. No one that i regularly read, said anything that could be misunderstood as racist. And i think that she was just (now wait, i'm not saying i know what she was saying. Nor am i speaking for her or anyone else. just what i assumed --goodness i hate that word) wanted all know how it feels to be a black AMERICAN woman and living with the past. Unfortunately, she wasn't communicating clearly what she was trying to say. As i could see what she was saying, but not what she was trying to put forward.

Officer Pat, you unfortunately got caught in the cross fire. As did Pete, Sharon and I think Alexia?

Alexia, you come up with somethings that make me sit back and think. As well as to make me go and look for the answers to the questions in my head.

The same with Sharon. Officer Pat, you come up with smart stuff as well. But you seem to be a jokester as well. Kudos soldier!!!

So, i may not know all. I'm not a mind reader nor do i proclaim to be one. And sometimes i dont agree with what everyone is saying. I've had my share of butt kicking and i've learned from it. I don't believe in name calling (little childish really). But i can have an honest adult conversation (or one with a child!) and get my point across. If you dont agree. Fine. Not going to fight about it. And i have had a few debates that turned ugly. I'm not proud of any of those.

All i hope will be that Janice will come to realize that we are not degrading her or her history nor are we taking pot shots at this scumsucker just because he is black. personally, i want someone to photoshop him sky blue pink with white polka dots, like i said earlier. But wait, then the rainbow group will get us right?

Bottomline, the old adgage: opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one" really plays here. Express your opinion, and if someone doesn't like it. Oh fricking well. it's there. in black and white (oops, sorry). comment if you will or not. I don't attempt to know everything. But what i have seen, known or experienced in my 50 yrs, may be a little more then most people on here. Maybe not. So lets talk and not accuse or force opinions anyone.

I hope that Janice and Officer Pat, sees thinks different. if not, i'm not their mommy. I can't make them play nice together. I welcome any talk anyone wants. And for janice, If you are interested, i can give you my email or facebook and we can continue speaking off TCR. But if you are a blue person from another planet, i'm sorry i won't be able to allow you on my facebook! :) Smile and the world will smile with you!!!!!

angry grandma,

I did not quite understand what you were saying, but I did get the tone of what your are saying and I totally agree with your tone. However at the risk of sounding redundant I DO NOT WANT ANY ONE TO PAY FOR THE SINS OF THEIR FATHER, GRANDFATHER, FOUNDING FATHERS etc.. You have already done what I started out looking for is for someone (a white someone) to UNDERSTAND. In the course of this I have been called all kinds of names. It seems that nothing I have said has been heard. Grandma, I am not racist, I am not predjuices or the likes. Beleive I'VE GOT MY FAULTS, and I work hard every day to adjust mean tthoughts that experience. I am old enough to know that if I harbor hate then it will destroy me. Or more yet my children and grandchildren. I am very proud of who I am. Maybe I should go back and re-read my posts. I wanted to keep the conversation civil. I don not think calling any one names amounts to being civil hence the imaturity of Pat. I told my children that profanity is a small mind tring to express itself.

Surly we can talk about things that happened 50 years ago with calmness or can we. What this conversation proves to me is that race is still a very hot explosive topic, hence making it a powder keg for America. Everyone keeps saying I want someone to pay for slavery. Exactly what would the price be?? I simply want people to understand, UNDERSTAND I do not want people to suffer, I don't want money form Pat, from you, or any one else.

In the discussion Officer Pat bought up the Holocaust, I just simply went with HIS argument , and stated some facts.I want to thank you for pointing out that some of the blogs were old. I did notice the dates, but since the site was still open for comments, I assumed that the same people who posted the original blogs were still on. In case that it is not obvious I am not a cahmpion blogger. I just wanted sympathy for a family who needed it. nomore no less.

@CT, LOL! Yeah *whew wipes brow and keyboard* man, and it's thirsty work to come up with so many unique nicks and keep them all straight, and creating an entirely different personality for each one!

But my favorite? Creating the fake haters who hurl slurs at me!! Oh, that right there... some kind of fun-o-matic!

::::

@A'Grandma, every time I hear "let's roll" or a variation thereof, I think of Todd Beamer. Today makes exactly one month til the 10th anniversary of 9/11/01.

I can't believe it either....

@Janice
I understand what you were trying to do. You were trying to explain some of your feelings from a black woman's perspective. Why that makes some people so angry I have no idea. But Angry Grandma is cool-and I hope you and her have some nice conversations,and I'm here-I like hearing other peoples thoughts and experiences.

Enough said Janice. I am not here to dress you down or anyone else. I just thought you were getting a little to hot and heavy regarding your opinions.

and yes i understand that you come on here and see the earlier posts and just assumed the idiots who wrote them are still here. Prefectly understandable.

In all fairness to Pat and everyone else, You did come on very heavy with a race card. And we all agree that this family should be prayed for due to the actions of this person who called himself a dad. It was a sad event. But if everyone just see's colors, then we as human's dont continue.

As far as talking about the past. I have no problem with it. Some do, but i don't. I have memories, good and bad. And if it makes it easier for someone else to come to terms about their own memories, hey great. Sometimes it is very theraputick (oops there i go again). At least for me it is.

You have to be honest with yourself: whenever a story of someone shows up here, most figure (not going to say assume) they are drug addicts, welfare addicts, street walkers ect. We don't get a lot of stories where the parents are in the income level of over $250K yearly. Who live in a beautiful home in a very nice section of town and have 2.5 kids and pets. These are degenerates who live off welfare. They are druggies. They are scums. And 95% are black. And i give that high but it could be lower. We don't pick the crimes, the criminal does. I really dont know what causes most crimes to be done by a black person over a white. I have a few friends who are black. and they live better then me. Hard workers and one is a cop. But this isn't an easy answer. You may be a hard working person. Worked for everything you have. These people in most of these stories dont. Please be honest with yourself. You have eyes. You see what is going on. Compassion is one thing. But compassion for a person who chooses to lays around, collects welfare, housing, popping out kids just to continue benefits ect. That's not fair to all tax payers. Including you. And believe me i have personal knowledge of white people who do the same damn thing. And i hate it.

it's different if the family has fell on hard times, another to expect to get benefits just because you don't want to work? Nah not going to happen.

So now, let this go. it's over and shouldn't be brought up again. No hit no fail. But if you want to email me sometimes as i'm only on here during the day (from work tehe) riadragonfly@yahoo.net

That goes to everyone. I will talk with everyone off here if anyone wants to talk or debate!

Wow so I read all these comments and garbage that was spewed out. As a corrections major and a white male, i think people are getting their facts twisted, there are more crimes committed by white people than any other race, there are in fact more white people in prison numbers wise, but percentage wise there are more blacks per capita. I think you all should look at the UCR on the FBI's website. You might be able to inform yourself and learn something so you dont sound like a complete dumbass, such as Sharon, who gives white people bad names and makes people who arent white such as Malik, think of us as ignorant.. anyways this is the hate crime report from 2008(most updated information)which gives information on violent crimes. There are tables you can also look at which shows numbers of people who were anti-white, anti-black, anti-semetic, etc. Read them over and I think you will be enlightened a little more.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/offenders.html

yeah i know Alexia. We are planning out our memorial now for my brother. Seems that we are going to have it at 8:15 moment of Silence and then the service will start at 9:22 time of call from my brother. And it will be on 9/11

Got tons of family going to be here. except his 2 boys who were deployed 3 months ago to Gulf. Someone from his company sent me a package (haven't opened it because it is addressed to all of his brothers and sisters) so we will open at the memorial.

Angry grandma,

thanks for the offer of your e-mail address. I would like to tralk further with you. I do not do facebook or twitter. I am a little past the age of technology and I only have a laptop to keep up with the times. I don't enjoy computers at all!!! I have had this computer for at least three years and mostly my grands watch streaming TV, or at least I think that is the term.

Thanks again for your understanding of what I was attempting to say. You have made my day!!!!KUDOS TO YOU

Chief Vice,

Those people are no longer on here. But you are correct. Their statements are and were stupid. And they themself are idiots. I think some people say dumb shit to make themself look like they are lot better then anyone else.

thanks for the link. I will check it out tonight. Much appreciated.

*hugs* Angry Grandma, I'll be thinking of you too on that day, along with all the others and all our wonderful men and women in the military.

Diamondgirl9,

Thanks for your support. I am glad to see that someone had the ability to see my point of view, even if you make not totally agree with all of them. I thought that I was only responding to the blogs that was directed at me. Thank you for not holding me accountable for my spelling and typing inabilities.

@Janice
No problem.BTW I am not a spelling or grammar Nazi. :-D

Angry grandma,

I did not understand you last post. Help me out here. I know that the term is used freely and widely but what is playing the race card. Please explain that meaning to me and when exactly in my blogs did I play it.

Diamondgirl9,

School me what does BTW stand for? I am not savvy with the terms of text messages. I don't know what all the abbrivations are. I use my cell phone only to make calls.

@Janice
BTW means by the way. LOL means laugh out loud. I think ROTFL means roll on the floor laughing. I don't know many myself-I have seen IDK-I have no idea what that means. I don't do a lot of texting myself-but if I can think of anymore I'll let you know.

Diamond....you almost had it.. IDK = I don't know.

I just thought of a 2 more. IMO =in my opinion and IMHO=in my humble opinion.

@Sharon
Thank you! LOL!

Diamondgirl9

Thanks, I am armed and ready. Now I can show my kids and grandkids what I have learned.

See what having good grammar and speaking articulate does to you Diamond?
If you would have said "I don't know what that means"..you would have been "huh...OHHHH DUHHHHHH".

LOL

Oh Janice, since you claim you don't want reparations, let me remind you what YOU said when I mentioned Congress' apology (which, if you're looking for some sign that we understand, I think an apology from the nation's highest legislature would suffice):

"I whished Clinton would have kept his "retarted" apology and would have given me a valuable oil painting,or jewels or something I could have taken to Bank of America."

Hmm, sounds like reparations to me!

How much more would you like me to embarass you? I mean, if I keep this up, I'm going to start feeling bad...

NOT!

You're a disgrace to humanity, and now you're a liar too.

Please, I'm excited to see how foolish you look trying to talk your way out of this one. Make my day.

Office Pat,

Oh Pat, Oh Pat, say it isn't so!!! You're back. Did you have to take a breather. Or did your fans encourage you to step back into the ring?? You know that you are taking that statement out of context.

The conversation was how well the Jews faired after the Holocaust I was simply pointing out to you the Jews were given back the wealth that they lost during the Holocaust.
By the way I have no problem with that. Anytime a wrong has been done then I think that society should take whatever measures it can to right that wrong. YOU said that the apology that congress gave to African Americans was a "retarded" (if I mispelled it this time, fix it in your head) waste of time (what an anti-racist statement!!!).

Your were attempting to compare the success of the Jews to the failure (as you see it) of African Americans. I said it would have been nice to get an oil painting, jewels or something to take to Bank of America. I was contrasting the understanding that the world gave to the Jews after the Holocaust with the inability for Americans to show UNDERSTANDIND to fellow Americans concerning slavery. At no time did I ask or say that this country owes repartions to African-Americans. However since you bought up the idea, it may warrant looking into.

Let me try this once again. You have shown imaturity, angry, and hate thoughtout the conversation. But I don't think you are a true racist, I don't think you are unreasonable, I think you are well informed, and very passionate about your views. Just am I am, and those are qualities that I respect. You and I have AGREEDED that slavery was horrible. You and I have AGREEDED that is was in the past. The only point that I think that we disagree on is rather or not I could possibly feel any pain from it.

Let me put in in terms that you may understand. African Americans have wounds that are not visible to the eye(especially the White eye). I just ask for people to simply acknowkledge that fact.

Then maybe just maybe the races in the country will began to truly get along and become color-blind.

Blog back or insult me when you are ready!!! By the way don't ask me for unearned privledges..MAKE YOUR OWN DAY.

I didn't take anything out of context. You said that all you got was a measley apology and you would have liked something that you could have taken to the bank. You said it, dopey.

And now, you want ME to acknowledge that YOU are hurt deep down inside, so that YOU can get over your own insecurities about race? Yeahhhh, that's logical.

I admitted that slavery was terrible and frankly that's all I need to do. I'm not going to apologize since I didn't do anything wrong, and I'm not going to give you anything to take to the bank. Lastly, I'm not going to allow you the excuse that slavery is still terrible and its still affecting members of your community when they make dumbass mistakes.

I believe in personal responsibility. You screw up, you better own up to it. There are no excuses anymore.

Maybe just maybe....we should give all these "wronged and wounded" black americans some land and let them build their own casinos?

Hey, it worked with the indians, who the white people really truely f*cked over.

Can any one say Co-op city? Puuuulleeeeeze.
That place is a hell hole and it isn't because of white people. And that is just one example. Outskirts of Chicago...freaking place is so broke down and vandalized/tagged. Who lives there? Blacks and wiggers. Go through any project at anytime of the day and you will see grown ass abled bodied men sitting on broke down lawn chairs drinking out of bottles wrapped in brown paper playing spades/dominoes/dice . What, because your great great granddaddies had to pick cotton, that gives their offspring the right to do nothing? Cause that is the way it seems. Most black people have no respect for their own property, much less other peoples. For crying outloud...during any riot...they burn down their OWN neighborhoods and steal from their own people. Blacks cried Rodney King...what about the white man Reginald Oliver Denny that black men ripped out of his rig and beat almost to death. They drive around in pimp mobiles with spinners and wonder why others think they might be. They flash guns like they are extended to their arms or belts and then wonder why whites think of them as gangsta. You don't get respect if you don't earn it.
For God's sake...quit trying to blame the problems that blacks have today on somethng that happened in another era. Not all white people back in the day even owned slaves. My family didn't. Why should i have to hear "what you did to us" whenever I didn't do anything. How about all the white boys that went to war to help free the slaves? How about all the whites abolitionist that DID go to the mat for blacks. NOOOOOO..we get it rubbed into our faces constantly that we treated blacks badly cause they were slaves. FYI..slaves that were sold by their own freaking people also.
THat is what Angry Grandma means when she says "stop playing the race card". It means that whites are tired of being blamed for shit that happened many years ago. Yeah the whole KKK thing was wrong, but you are talking about a very small group of narrow minded individuels that wanted to live in the past.

We whites have our own F*cked up people in our race. God, half the times I am embarrassed to be the same freaking color as these slimeballs. But when ever whites kill someone, they blame it on their own white mother/father, not on the black people.

I agree. my man had a aunt in St Paul here who was part of the Underground Railroad. she gave up her rep as a good lady to run a high class "gentlemen's club". she used it as a "end station" here. and due to who her clientele were. she could get the paperwork to give to the runaways. even though slavery was illegal here. it was not illegal for bounty hunters to take any blacks not having their papers.
.
plus alot of blacks forget that not only were the slave owners in Africa were black. but there were many here that were black as well.
.
i'm also sick and tired for being blamed for something my side of the family did not do. we did NOT get to America till well after the Civil War was over with. but becuase I'm white. my family must have owned blacks supposedly. no, we were dirt poor coal miners over in germany. we ate what most blacks call soul food. I've had blacks tell me that they did not know that whites ate soul food. when you are poor. you ate what you could afford. even if it was liver n onions.
as for welfare. my man while working for camp snoopy at the mall of america. a dishwasher there was glad that his sister had FOUR fricking welfare accounts. each one in a different state. when the guy was told that what his sister was doing was stealing. the dude responded back that "it's a black thing, you don't understand because you aint black".
.
.
Bill Cosby had it correct about many aspects of today's blacks. also I bet that if MLK was alive today. he would be ASHAMED of how many blacks are acting today. to the point he might do a 'Cosby' and tell them off.
also General Larry Platt has a good message with how today's black youth are being. fools. in - Pants on the Ground.

Sangelia,

I missed the point or if you are responding to my blog then you missed my point. I do not BLAME slavery on any living person today. I do not Blame slavery on any person that is not living today. I do wonder how any person could have owned or sold any person regardless of the color of their skin. Even the people in Africa who sold slaves to the slave traders. I have come to deal with slavery on these terms: I think the reason that slavery was so profitable for so long is beacuse the slave owners did not UNDERSTAND that the slave had all of the feelings and emotins that the slaveowner had. In my own simple way I think that if a slave owner had come to UNDERSTAND that this slave was indeed a person just like he was, slavery would have ended earlier. I am not totally stupid I know that free labor was apealing. But I think that even people who owned slaves had some good in them. I just think that the human element was over looked. The lack of compassion and UNDERSTANDING played a huge role. I hope that I am making sense by saying this.

I agree with you and Sharon there is a lot of things wrong in my community. let me scream that again. THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS WRONG IN MY COMMUNITY. I agree and am ashamed at the tarnished legacy of Dr. King. Just ask mu children, I am always reminding them of the price that was paid for the things that they take for granted. They are all parents now and I intend to do the same with my grandchildren.

I am in total agreement with Bill Cosby. I simply asked for UNDERSTANDING. I am a law abiding, drug free, working class, non-violent, church going, neighbor friendly, civic minded, tax paying black woman.

I have worked all of my life, I have never commited a crime, I am a mother of college educated children, I am a grandmother, I own a house, I drive a pretty nice car, I live in a good neighborhood. I am not racist, matter of fact I am generally like by Blacks and Whites alike. HOWEVER
I feel the effects of slavery. If I can feel the effects of slavery what do you think the people you steal welfare checks, drink while sitting in broken down lawn chairs feel. Mind you slavery is not the blame. But maybe the long term effects of slavery just might play a role.

I don't know if you can UNDERSTAND that or not. But it is no less the truth. So please white people stop going postal on me. I don't want to be insenstive. Perhaps race is as hard for white people to discuss as it is for me. Let me screm this: GUILT IS A USELESS EMOTION, so I am not looking for anyone to feel guilty.

When you say you were "dirt poor" I can identify with that. I think I am looking for white people to "Identify with the balck experience. Maybe I am looking for too much, or maybe just to admit that any black child growing up in America experienced different things than any white child growning up in American, and that this difference was based on race. If we can agree on that then maybe we will be at a starting place.

Was there an actual point in there? A thesis, perhaps? Whoa.

*headdesk*

PEOPLE OF TRUE CRIME REPORT, LISTEN TO ME! GO BACK! IT'S A TRICK!

Janice is delusional. She has a poor grasp of reality.

Stop being props in her psycho diorama. She is not listening. Your words are only bouncing off in random order.

All she does is look down at their growing pile, picks what words are the shiniest and longest and starts gluing them to her dashboard in a visually pleasing manner according to shape and color.

Angry Grandma, I fear for your soul!

Fair Warning! She is as toxic as Chernobyl and will be for hundreds of years to come. There is no cure. There is no antidote.

I stopped reading at "I'm better at debating than you" much earlier.

Just thinking that it's borderline unwarranted self-importance.

Oh, I know, Alexa. Trust me, I know.

I'm just having fun now. Crazy people are VERY entertaining.

@Janice
I don't believe slavery has anything to do with the way some black people behave. Black people had pulled out of that slavery hole a long time ago. What is happening now is a failure to work hard and get an education. Black people can succeed, and do. If you don't work hard and get the best education you will not succeed I don't care what color you are.

Holy shit! Someone sees the light. Hallelujah!

Now Janice, you really are just talking out of your big old veiled Sunday hat.

Tell me first off..how do you feel the effects of slavery. Do you get imaginary welts strips on your back. Does your back ache from all that imaginary pickin'. You feel the effects cause you cannot let go of something . you being a church going God fearing woman and all should know that you are haboring grudges from past sins of people you didn't even know. You are following the footsteps of your people who were racist towards whites. Who do you think started the whole honky/cracker etc.
And the welfare beer drinking people only feel the effects of the mad dog 20 20. Them being leeches on the butt of society has got nothing to do with slavery. They just don't want to work. Period.
I am so freaking tired of black saying "we should have lots of perks in life because we are the minority." Screw that....white people have been the minority for 10+ years now and you don't hear us crying in our beers about it. Yes we have welfare people too. We are not all that great of a race... but you don't hear us saying "those damn indians raided our wagon train and stole our horses".

Diamondgirl9

That argument is totally valid. Hard work, determination, motivation, education etc. plays a huge roll in a person's success. I totally agree. The lack of these traits plays a huge part in rather or not a person is a failure. I get that I am asking some one to understand something that they have just not experienced.

I have already conceded that maybe the people that I am corresponding with is from another generation and maybe just don't understand where I am coming from.

@Janet
My mother told me a story when I was a little girl I never forgot. I don't remember many of the details but the moral of the story was burned in my brain. She told me there was a beach where Jewish people were not allowed. It seemed no one liked the Jews and thought they were inferior people.

Well the Jews worked very hard and saved their money and they bought the beach.

I know there is racism in the world and there will always be. Black people are treated more harshly by law enforcement,but so are a lot of minorities. People will put rock blocks in your way. But you brush your shoulders off and keep working,keep learning,keep your eyes on the prize.

The best revenge is living well.

Sharon,

I have not responded to your blogs because frankly I thought your comments did not warrant it. (Remember that I an not a great speller), but this blog got my attention. I can finally say that you asked a question that is worth answeing. No I do not feel welts on by back, no my back does not hurt from picking cotton. Mater of fact I do not know what a cotton plant looks like. I have only seen them as I ride by in my car from a distance. But the pain comes when I see the difference in schools in the Black neighborhood vs the white neighborhoods.

let me tell you a story, I have said that I hav a son, My son is 27 years old. I suspect that may be the ages of some of you. I have always made it a point to send to children to good schools (code for white schools). My son was in the 7th grade and began to fail. I tried everything I knew to get him to study. So one morning without him knowing I went to his school. Whe he arrived I was sitting in his class. I stayed with him all day long. I went to every class that he had. This child was never called on to partcipate in class, even with me his Mother in the class.
I thought that the teachers would call on him to at least show me he was not prepared for class.

After school, I went to the pricipal's office to complain that my child was not given a chance to partcipate in class. The principal told me that it was sad but because my son was Black he was not expected to excel. Now don't get me wrong he did not use those exact words. But that is the gest of what he said. I suspect that these attitudes were left over from this country's past.

Even now that story bring tears to my eyes. I know that is not the case for all young black kids. But had my son not had me as a Mother, a person who could take time off from work to go to school with him he would have perished. I just happen to have WORKED HARD enough to be in this position. I know that I am not a great speller, but I am no dummie. I had the know how to bring this to the School Boards attention. And because I can present well I was takes seriously.

So you do the math. I believe this was in 1996 and I was stunned that white teachers and a princpal had the gall to tell me my son was not worth their time.

Now I know that might not sound like a lot to you. But I thought times like that was only meant for me not my children. I have other stories but when I tell them it seems to bring sad memories. This was in the city of Norcross Georgia. Imagine if you will how many other pants on the ground youngest was treat the same way.

Diamondgirl9

Very well said. I agree with the moral of your Mother's story. As a matter of fact it parelles (I know mispelled) with my life.

@Sharon
Girl I don't wear hats.

@Janice
You are handling your business. I know it's hard.and what happened to your son shouldn't happen to anyone's child,but you took care of it. Every time someone tries to push you,tries to turn you around,you push back even harder. Life is hard. For some people your skin is your sin. But what good does it do to worry about them? Black people used to be strong. Be strong again. Buy the beach.

That was funny about the hat!

Janice ..I feel your pain about your son and school..but in 2007 I had the same prob with my son and he is white. and he was in 3rd grade..

next excuse

Janice I could care a less if you think my comments don't warrant your return comments. You make comments that make not a bit of sense..like above you said...

"The principal told me that it was sad but because my son was Black he was not expected to excel. Now don't get me wrong he did not use those exact words."

Just because you THINK that was the jest doesn't mean it WAS.

You make things worse for yourself in your "feeling the effect of slavery" by maybe always reading/hearing things the way they fit into your mindset about white people treating black people unfairly.

Could really care or less if you comment on my post or not. You can have no arguement with the truth.

Sharon, sone one told you your son was not expected to excel because he was black, like they told me. I thought you said your son was white. Again you missed the point. The principal did not say my son was not smart, he did not say that he simply can not excel he said he was not EXPECTED to EXCEL BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK. None other REASON except Black boys/men were not expected to be a success.

Something similar might have happened to your son but not because he was BLACK. And another thing he thought that I would simply except that.. He never thought I would take it any further. I guess in his mind Black parents did not care about their children. He had NO PROBLEM in showing the comtept for this child. I can't say anymore than that.

Ok. Thought i would check in on everyone tonight. It looks like i never left 5 1/2 hrs ago.

I dont intend to be here very long. But will comment because i seem to have caused some of this. Sorry everyone

Janice, if you are still online... I think maybe you misunderstood my intent with you.

I was offering support and someone to talk to. But i see that there is other things you feel you need to force on others.

I didn't think i was talking down to you. Nor do i think i was being condencing (sorry people). But now i'm at a different stage of my thought process.
I am now getting the feeling, after reading you recent posts (BTW, not blogs, here they are posts or comments), That you are a posier.

1) You are not as stupid as you try to make out to be.
2) Yes, you have been using the race card (yes exactley what Sahron said it meant)all day.
3) For whatever reason or thought, you have came on here not to offer thoughts for the suffering family. But to use this forum as a soap box to preach "BLACKS ARE REPRESSED AND THE WHITES DID THIS TO US"

Janice, i;m sorry if you feel that whatever you feel is due to the slavery ( why didnt anyone tell me i was spelling that wrong? Butt holes!!! lol) and repression. But no one did this to you or anyone else. If you are having an issue regarding 300 yrs ago and and say you nneed white people to understand the feelings you are feeling, well im very sorry. These are your issues and maybe, you need to seek some concelling (oh well, you know what i mean) quickly. There is an issue deeply wrong if you are wanting all white people to feel your feelings?
What about our feelings. You see things from a blacks view. What about the white views? In my town in Massachusett, i am a minority. I do not qualify for any benefits at all. As a research project, a friend (who's black) and i went to welfare, housing, food stamps ect about 3 yrs ago. this was for a college course she was taking. The results?

I dont qualify for welfare (we both put we were unemployed students with health issues)
She was offered cash benefits of a couple hundred dollars a month.

We both applied for city housing. I was told that there was no single apt's avaible for at least 1 yr.

She recieved a offer of a single apt a week later. At Zero dollar a month

I recieved $35 in food stamps for emergency food stamps and the $30 a month after that.
She recieved $125 for emergency stamps and then $75 a month afterwards.

I did not quaify for discount on gas, lights. phone. She did. I actually have disablities which could retire me. I choose not to. As i will need to live on retire soon and i am trying to put as much into it as possible.

So who was discrimanated against ? Not her. But because this was a school project, i did turn in the results to the state of mass discrimanation. And i did not accept any crap i was offered. Nor did she.

So i still dont understand the the point you are trying to make.

So think about that. I am tired and your comments are giving me a headache. Sorry i tried to be understanding. You have an agenda i just dont know what yet.

Karen, you seem to like saying the word nigger! Did one rock your world and you would like another one but can't get one, and now you're mad!

Janice, with 14 years having past and you being delusional as it is, I have serious doubts about your story. Also considering the way you really read into things, I'd like to know the principal's exact words. Because no professional educator could write off a child based on his race and reasonably expect to keep his job. So please tell me exactly what the guy said, because I think your "gist" is likely bullshit that has been exaggerated even more over the years.

And with your linguistic and logical skills, or lack thereof, I have a hard time seeing you as some sort of brilliant presenter/public speaker. Not that you've had difficulty making outrageous boastful comments about your non-existent abilities in the past.

thats it for me. night all!

Again you changed your story...and I quote you...

After school, I went to the pricipal's office to complain that my child was not given a chance to partcipate in class. ****The principal told me that it was sad but because my son was Black he was not expected to excel. Now don't get me wrong he did not use those exact words.**** But that is the gest of what he said. I suspect that these attitudes were left over from this country's past.

He either used those exact words or he did not..which is it because you say "NOW DON"T GET ME WRONG HE DID NOT USE THOSE EXACT WORDS". Which is it???

I am not the dimwitted blonde I sometimes act like.

Lookit Janice, you want everyone to think you are intelligent black woman. And that is all good. But you switching around to make things come out to your point of view makes you look non intelligent. And I am not talking about spelling, grammar...I am talking about you making statements such as " I FEEL THE EFFECTS OF SLAVERY"...When asked how..you bring up example that happens everyday in schools everywhere white black, mexican.

And pray tell me when schools were segratated again that you SEE the difference between white schools and black schools? Huh? Did I miss a memo somewhere? AS far as I know..and I live in the deep south....white kids and black kids go to same school....in fact, my son went to predominatley black school because that was his zone. So don't play that card either.

THe fact is this and only this.....white and black people do crazy shit....there is no color creed in crime...it is what it is. But again, if you are saying that black people commit these crimes because they were repressed an era ago, you are sadly mistaken.

Amen, Sharon!

@ Pat...

I seen the light , just couldn't find the freaking switch!

Dyed my blonde hair brown today..got me some artificial intelligence..will last 4-6 weeks..

Good Morning Sharon and Officer Pat,

Sharon I have honestly tried to remember the princpal's exact words. I can't. But I was just as dumb founded as Officer Pat so to make sure I understood his meaning I paraphrased his words. I asked the princpal if he meant that "my son is not expected to be a good student in the school because he is BLACK?" the princpal say "It is sad Mrs. --------, but that is the way that it is.

Now I don't expect any of you to believe this, I did not either. I think the princpal was just as sad about this as I was. He took no joy in telling me this!!! Don't get it wrong. I did not mean to say that the princpal did not care. I do feel that he was letting me know that the teachers did not care. I felt he may have been powerless to chang things. It took me a long time to get the problem addressed. Notice I did not say solved. Because I am sure that other kids experienced the same things in that school after my son left. Oh and by the way, my daughter has some scary tales to tell about the school system in the black community because she had taught on the high school level.
And Sharon please don't live in a vaccum. There are tons of all black schools.

Sharon and Officer Pat, I have one more story, I am sure it will only get you all even madder at me. But here goes.

When my daughters were small I shopped in a high end little girl's dress boutique. On my lunch hour one day I went in to buy a peach bow (hair ribbon). The bows were displayed behind the counter on the wall. There were two clerks behind the counter. One being the manager. There were several peach color bows there. I pointed to one and asked to see it. The clerk knew which bow I meant, and passed it to me. The manager stopped, and said (exact words) "She does not want that bow, her little girl would not have enough hair. (now I smile as I remember this).

This statement mad me angry. I talked about her, her mother and her mother's mother
(thank God I am not that same person anymore). I went back to my office and could not work. I went home early.

I thought what about that statement hurt and angred me so.
and this is what I came away with:

First she could not look at me and determine what my daughters looked like!!! She just assumed that little black girls could not have long hair. (translate to me, beauty) Even though I had shoulder length hair!! This as before hair extensions.

Secondly, I had shopped in that store many times before, with my children in tow, She could not remember me!!!

Thridly, she did not not have the manners to keep her negative thoughts to herself.

But then God stepped in, and this is what I came away with,
she meant me NO HARM she thought she was giving me good customeer service.

I did her a dis-service by leaving her as clueless as I found her. I could have told her that was a hurting thing to say. I could have called her to remember me and my daughters because she had waited on me when I purchased the dresses that I was buying the bows for.

Then I went further, I understood it from what I thought must have been her view point. Maybe she had never really been around many little black girls. Sometimes the images we see or not the true images of any one person or any group of people. I realized it was NOT here fault that all of the feeling of inferiority came to the surface.

It was NOt her fault that I felt inferior due to a long history of being treated inferior (George Wallace in the school door, etc). But maybe just maybe if she had had some UNDERSTANDING of my past. She would have realized not to say such a thing. Not to mention simply good maners. I wonder how many white mother she had said the same thing to.

Now did that scar me for life. Of course not. As a matter of fact it helped me to see things from some one else's point of view. She did not mean to hurt me. As a matter of fact I did more damage to her then she to me. I doubt if she gave it another thought, she was glad to get that psycho black woman out of her store. I responded foolishly in her eyes for no reason at all. I missed a "teachablel moment" A incident that tore me up for hours meant nothing to her. Because of our life experiences.

Attack when ready!!!

Pete Kotz said:

I think you have to move away from wherever you live, Janice. It sounds like you're surrounded by goobers. But there are places in America where everyone pretty much lives and lets live. I would be astounded if these kinds of things happened where I live, and I think black and white would agree.

I don't get it. Decades ago, a stranger makes a snide remark and your point is?

When I was younger, I was a lifeguard. We had a rule that if you were under 5 years old, you needed immediate supervision from someone 16 or older. I enforced this rule consistently. But one day, there were two 12 year old black girls (both of whom were incredible little cunts) and their 4 year old brother. Upon finding out that he was four, I told his sisters someone of acceptable age was going to have to be there with him. This little brat looked me in the eyes and said, "If it was a little cracka, I bet you'd let him swim!"

I won, though. I personally walked them out the front door that day, and then I gathered up evidence to show my boss what little shits they were, and their membership was revoked. No refunds, bitches!

What's my point here? Well, I'm not sure. You told a story about a white person making a rude comment to you, so here's one of a black person making one to me. Or, how about the black slut I knew in college who bragged to people that she would be admitted to law school because she was black and possessed a vagina. See? Lots of people make dumbass comments based on race.

Now, Janice, I seriously want you to consider something. Class vs race. Along what lines do you believe society is more divided: class lines or race lines?

For example, if you were an impoverished black, would you have more in common with rich blacks or impoverished whites?

I grew up in a moderately wealthy family. In my upscale neighborhood, there were some blacks families with similar amounts of wealth. Now, just outside my neighborhood, there was a predominantly white neighborhood of cemented-down mobile homes. Just poor white trash.

I was friends with the children of those black families in my neighborhood. We had the same interests, we had nice things, we lived in nice houses, our parents were respected professionals in the community. But I had never had a friend in that neighborhood on the other side of the tracks even though most of them shared my race. We simply had no bonds. We lived in separate worlds.

Charles Barkley, famous black basketball player and staunch Republican, has often talked about his relationship with his mother. She would scorn him, saying the Republicans were for the rich people. And he would simply respond, "But Mom, I'm rich."

Are you seeing the point here? Class is the dividing factor. Not race.

Well, my last words on this thread that has gone on for way to long....

I am white woman raised in deep south during the 60-80's!
As a 9 yr old, i picked cotton for .25 cent an hour.
At 11, i worked part time as a helper in the Springs Cotton Mill with my mom and other family members. I had a mammy when i was a little younger. I went to a school that had NO BLACKS ALLOWED.

People knew who i was related to even if they didn't know my name. and i mean blacks and whites.

I got out of the insane area as soon as i could.

I go to visit back in 1987, my mom was in hospital there, and a older woman walked up to me in the hospital, (i have NO fricking clue who she was) but she said: "You're Charles R___'s yankee granddaughter. Take your white trash momma and get the hell out of here. We don't need no garbage like your kind here spoiling his good name." Now this was a BLACK woman who said this to me. I was freaked out. My mom didn't know who she was either. But when i told my Aunt, she had an idea who it was.

a little later on that week, my cousin gave a fellow employee (black) a ride home from work. That day while she was in her house, the mailperson, drove up onto her lawn and purposily ran over her dog. Not once by 3 times. and then drove to the street and parked. She took my cousin's mail and threw it all over the dead dog. My cousin called the cops and all. You know what happened? NOTHING! she gave a man a ride home, and that was against what our grandfather stood for. Now our grandpa been dead 7-8 yrs by this point.

Bottomline.... I am so tired of any race bull shit. I have more then my share up here in MASS. I am tired of black people blaming whites, whites blaming blacks, or mexicans. or hispanics, or arabs, or any other person i might have forgotten to included.

And just for the record.... I DIDN'T VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE'S BLACK! I didn't vote for him because i think he is full of shit! Say as everyone else. promises the world, then can't deliver.

GLOVES OFF. THE END!

The measure of pain and suffering is oft done by a gauge owned only by the sufferer.

Modern technology... the scratchy, jumpy films, the millions of still photos... the pen and paper journaling the events... and years of historians, humans of contributing politics and personal histories, examining and analyzing what it all means. Years of trying to grasp the farthest threads of the events' impacts so as to fashion a smooth fabric of our time thus far.

Wanton greed on a massive level that would demand payment in blood no matter how much.

The young and naive, along with the young and afraid, would each pledge to fight the injustices and pay with their lives, whether or not they knew what that really meant at the moment of the hour of the day it would come to pass.

And for many, many more still, these tender warriors would come too late. Had they known heroes were on the way, would perhaps a note of hope had kissed their face as their spirit lept to join God?

Standing at the edge of Dachau,
standing at the edge of the Stalin Russia,
standing at the edge of Mao Cultural Revolution,
at the edge of the Killing Fields,
at the edge of Ethiopia,
at the edge of Armenia,
the edge of Rwanda,
the edge of Wounded Knee,
the edge of the Yaqui Indian Sinaloa,
of Gallipoli,
of Jerusalem,
of Halabja,
of Tora Bora,
of Operation Redwing,
of Comintern School, Beslan, Russia,
of New York, NY,
of Arlington Cty, VA,
of Shanksville, PA,
and Palmito Ranch, TX....

The only way to send the pain away is to be grateful.

Good morning to you too Janice..

First off I don't live in a vaccuum. You tell me where there is ONE..just one school that doesn't ALLOW white children in its halls. If one white child lives in the projects and lets just say one Elementary School is zoned for that area that is where the kid will go..IF the parent doesn't want to drive the child to a different school themselves. But there are not any "black or white" schools.
This is not the 50s-60s. There are school zonings and some schools are built near predominalty Black neighborhoods but that doesn't mean there is segragation involved..

Also..it seems that with all the "issues" you have had with white teachers/priciples/clerks you have become jaded in your way of thinking. Sad but I can see how it happens.

you say you want white peole to identify with blacks feelings.. Flip the switch and put yourself in our shoes. White people no longer oppress the blacks.. Black people do that mighty fine on their own. White people also do it to themselves. White people are only racist in the eyes of ignorant blacks (most times).

That being said...I am not going to try to beat a dead horse over the head all day long with you. You do play the race card continuosly and it does not suit you. And as far as this country was born on the backs of slaves. Well that might be true, but now it is carried on the backs of people like Pat who fight for your and my freedom and our "unearned" privilges.

ps...at least black men are continuing on one part of their heritage. Populating the USA with all the children from "studding". Now if most would just get a job to support their broods and brood mares.

diamondgirl, I beleive it was, said it best..."buy the beach"

Kudos to pete, officer Pat and Alexia.

Tired of reading same thing over and over again. It's over. it's history. if you repeat history. You choose to make your life unlivable.

Move on and forget what mean people do. if you lower yourself to their level then you are just as bad or evil as they are. Espirer (this right?) to be a better human being. Do what's right for your world and family and the hell with everyone else who wants to live in the past and make people around them misable.

sorry for all typos last night folks. I was pissed (and a little buzzed) and my notebook has a small keyboard! Which pissed me off more!

this story has had way to much traffic then it needed. I will not be coming back to this story. Unless Pete has any other updates. I missed out on a lot of fun on other stories because i choose to be a better person and had it slammed back into my face.

So on to what i missed yesterday. Sorry if i'm now catching up.

I really hate beating the dead horse with a stick so I am taking Alexa's advice..of course day late and dollar short and walking the F away. * going to go back and sit in my Hoover Vaccuum*

Officer Pat...I must say this though... Janice replied that this country was built on the backs of slaves. And whilst that might be true ,it is on the backs of you and the rest of military personal that it is continuosly carried. I thank you profoundly for defending me and my "unearned" privilges.

Also..last post was one of the best I have read about class vs race. Well said my friend..well said.

Pete Kotz said:

Actually, Sharon, I think it's really hard to make the argument that the country was built on the backs of slaves. At the time, the south was a very backward, agrarian economy compared to the industrializing north. (One of the reasons they got their ass kicked in the war.)

And it would seem to me that slavery only benefited the very few who could afford slaves, which would have been a small percentage of land owners per capita. Though other southern whites may have supported slavery, they were morons to do so, since free labor would suppress the wages of everyone. I guess the argument would be akin to saying that the modern economy is built on the backs of states like Nebraska, Kansas and Iowa, which use cheap Mexican labor.

If we used the early 1800s as the threshold for the construction of our economy, we'd probably have to give the credit to poor, ethnic whites from Europe who did all the shit jobs along the northeastern seaboard.

So, if you're out tonight, please buy a beer and a shot for an Irishman whose people were here before 1860. His ancestors built the country.

Glad to see you back Pete,
I missed your "calm voice of reasoning on yesterday," Pete that happened in Mobile I no longer live there. So I have moved, but I find that things happen like this no matter where you are. A few nights ago someone said that racism is a condition of life. Maybe that is true I hadn't thought of it like that. I always think things will get better. not just on the surface but truly better. deep down better. Maybe I am a fool at heart. I want people to get along. I don't know about being color-blind, the color of a person's skin is a large part of who that person is. It denotes culture and othe important thigs about people. It is who God made him or her to be. And there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think that a color of a person's skin should be his or her sin.

@Alexa Kim,

The measure of pain and suffering is oft done by a gauge owned only by the sufferer. Thank you for that, it fit the subject matter very well. It is a phrase that I have often time heard, and maybe I need to apply it now.

What I started out tring to say was that maybe others through compassion others could also understand how high the meter on the suffer's gauge measured. But it doesn't seem that this will happen through this thread(I learned that term through "posting" with you all), or perhaps not even in my life time.

@Pat,
You should really find better words to express youself, it really doesn't take all of that to get your point across to use the c word in bad.

But to address your point on class, it is a very strong arguement and it does have some weight. It does apply in some cases. Until the issue becomes between two people of the same calss but perhaps different races. Pat I will have to give that argument a little more thought. My daughter and I have discussed the economic difference between wealthy whites and poor whites and wealty blacks and poor blacks.

BTW (did I use that right?) I don't think that every disagreement that I have had or snid remark made to me by a white person was due to my race. I reconize that some people just might not like me. Just like I don't like everyone I meet. However I don't use snid remarks to make that known. Pat I suspect that is what happened to you and the girls on the beach. You have showed a nasty/disrepectful attitude on this site. I can not began to think of what you are like in person.

Pete, slainte!

Hey Pete! Great information. But a little off the top: My ancestors hit NC and SC in the 1700's Yours may have had the English and the Potatoe famin. Mine had percutions (sorry folks) for being Hugenots in France. and if anyone knows about Hugenots, we are not a group who had a lot of published shite like irish, jewish ect. Being southern, i have had many questions as to "how does it feel to be cajun"? I'm not!!!!! I'm Parisian French and Scilian!
In the south, they ask me how i like being a canuke? See, most French people are canadain up here. so i always tell it this way. if i say i'm Hugenot French, I get stupid looks. Seems not to many people know what that is. Granted most Hugenots came thru New Oleans. hence the Cajun remarks. but my people came thru Switzerland instead. Straight to Orange County NC! Sorry, i got a 500 page family tree on my mom's people. Hobby of mine!!! Same with my northern father's family!!!

BTW, I really loved Far And Away. Would love to go to Ireland before i die. But can't see that happening.
Just to be able to stand in a large green grass overlooking a loch. Well that is my greatest wish! Besides Peace and no wars.

Ok, where 's my tiara and flowers? Oh i didn't win Mrs Granny of America? Sorry.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/naacp-urges-hallmark-pull-racist-card-shelves/

I just wanted to share this link, since we're talking about race and all. Seriously, what kind of idiots comprise the NAACP these days? That's one group that's seriously overstayed its welcome. Just...go away.

Janice, you noticed the wrong end of my comment. And, you're a fraud.

*hums Phil Collins' "In the Air Tonight"*

WELL I PUT IT AND GOD HAND KNOW BODY NO BUT HIM AND GOD,HE LOOK LOW AND LOOK HIGHT,HE GOT TO ANSWER TO GOD NOT ANY ONE ELES. MY HEART GO OUT TO THE FAMILY THAT ARE AND MY PRAY, LOOK UP TO THE HILL WERE YOUR HELP COME FROM GOD. GOD LOVE U AND I DO TO.

WELL I PUT IT AND GOD HAND KNOW BODY NO BUT HIM AND GOD,HE LOOK LOW AND LOOK HIGHT,HE GOT TO ANSWER TO GOD NOT ANY ONE ELES. MY HEART GO OUT TO THE FAMILY THAT ARE AND MY PRAY, LOOK UP TO THE HILL WERE YOUR HELP COME FROM GOD. GOD LOVE U AND I DO TO.

Pete

Thanks for the "history" lesson (no sarcasm)

And IMHO..the south will NEVER rise again because we are still ass backwards.

Was trying to give benifit of doubt to Janice. Really glad I said " and whilst that might be true".
I don't feel like such a big idiot, just a small one bacause I truely wasn't thinking about another race besides black people.

going to drink a pint of Guinness and head back to Katherine Olsen pic to see if she got any better looking.

WELL I PUT IT AND GOD HAND KNOW BODY NO BUT HIM AND GOD,HE LOOK LOW AND LOOK HIGHT,HE GOT TO ANSWER TO GOD NOT ANY ONE ELES. MY HEART GO OUT TO THE FAMILY THAT ARE AND MY PRAY, LOOK UP TO THE HILL WERE YOUR HELP COME FROM GOD. GOD LOVE U AND I DO TO.

has anyone thought about our Soldiers? Over in the middle east. There are no Blacks, whites, puerto ricians, mexicans, orientals. they are all ONE color! RED WHITE AND BLUE. With a few other colors thrown in for good measure.

And yes, before it comes to this: yes, we had blacks in the civil wars. Yes we had full black troops in WWI, And also in WW2 ect. Yes in Korea they were being intergrated with the white troops. And in Vietnam, there were major amounts of blacks as well. No one has every claimed that Black people were not used or abused. But again, that was years ago. Centuries ago. And for stupid people to still think that way, is just that Stupid.

our children, black white whatever color they are, are products of their raising. products of thier enviroment. if there is race issue swihtin the families, the kids will aclime themselves to act and say the same crap that is being taught. So you teach you kid to have compassion. Have manners. To look at another person for who they are not the color of them. But there will always be someone who "rocks the boat". no matter the color. Blaming each other for the other's faults. Stupid people do stupid things. Grow up and learn to live as a honest human being and stop putting your ill thought out thoughts on to others.

and Officer Pat, i have had issues as well when i have taken my grandchildren to the state pool. and i'm talking recently in the pass month! And i refuse to allow anyone, but less a kid, make derogotory statements to or about my babies based on their skin color. example: oh you to white to be in OUR water! or, 3 black boys pull my grandsons suit off in the water, and throw it outside! I almost went to jail! lucky i knew the cops who were there. and the boys were removed. But not before a 11 yr old boy was embarrassed and made to feel like shit!

So bring it on. Tired of the crap and i'm not going to back down anymore.

Pete Kotz said:

You gotta move to the north, Janice. We have plenty of our own problems up here, but any teacher or principal who said something like that up here would have got his ass whacked within the hour. They speak some 30 languages in the school district my kids attend. (My son thinks Mohammad is the most common name in America.) There are just too many kinds of people for any one group to be dickheads about it.

So come to Cleveland, Janice. We have no jobs, but we lead the league in friendliness and merriment. I will buy you your first shot.

Pete Kotz said:

By the way, Alexa, I loved that line about dogs and unconditional love. Beautiful sentiment. If only I had the heart of a dog.

Pete, you might already know this little "prayer": Lord please help me be the person my dog thinks I am.

I don't have a dog right now but I wish I did....

[I suspect you are well-aware of the comments function misbehaving for the past 14 hours or so.]

Thanks for the invite Pete, I don't drink ( I might start after this), but I think I want to see that unity in the south. I want to see the names Mohammad, Jesus, Abdula, Kohen, etc become just as respected and common placed here in the good 'ole south. I've work to do. I want to see the Tea Party gather without sign depicting President Obama as a witch doctor. I want to have a conversation about race that stay on point, that does not contain profanity and name calling, not laced with sarcasm, insults and hurtful remarks. But maybe I will come to visit some time. lol

First:

"Justin" and Karen, I pray you two don't breed. With each other, or anyone else. The commenter who said race is not even applicable as molestation happens across the board was right on.

CMM, you hit the nail on the head.

Oh my god, this story is so tragic on so many counts. I want to weep. Children learn what they are taught. And who knows how the boy's actions (if ANY) were interpreted/misinterpreted?

Go to professionals, people -- not exes who may have created the problem in the first place. If there WAS a problem.

Signing off to have a good cry now. God/Goddess/Allah/Whomever help us all....

The Industrial Revolution built this country, the Civil War had NOTHING to do with slavery, in fact both South AND North wanted to end Slavery and the South knew well enough to know that an Industrial Society wasn't the best move(and has it been, honestly) so as far as Slavery ending because of white people, I disagree, I hold Heros' like Martin Luther King and Malcom X(Whom I personally do not like given his policies towards violece) in the highest esteem.

Now, before you get pissy remember this, Martin Luther King wasn't talking about Blacks per se, it was about racial equality, as a whole, not just for any one race but for the impoverished and for those whom have been victims of oppression, it was Oppression he was against, not necessarily racism as a whole.

There is a sense of imbalance however and to blame it on either whites or blacks is inherently ignorant in nature, it is both sides coming to an impasse and rather than seeking the answer together bumping heads and knuckles.

It is that stubborn unwillingness to "let go" and that further disbelief in "not accepting responsibility" that drives both sides to so much madness and lunacy. No "white" wants to admit to slavery and it is that acting of "annoyance" that causes such an appearance.

And it is just as well no black wants to "let go" as in doing so leaves so much to be vulnerable, there is still so much wrong with 12% of our population, so many more hurdles to overcome not just against the "system" but against their own self-interests, the whole of "rising up" is all apolitical bs, it doesn't mean anything in the face of poverty.

And thus it is not race but poverty and yes, while statistics show that minorities(note, not blacks) are more prone to poverish living this applies more(now a days) to those of Mexican(I.E. from Mexico) origin, whether legal or illegal.

This is no doubt a social quagmire as it stands to say that those in poverty are more prone to more violent behaviors, however, if you watch the economy and the crime rates therein it is even further proven, no money =more violence.

You can dispute that fact(I.E. Socioeconomical Truth) all you want but there have been studies after studies proving that in poorer economic straits the crime rates(especially domestic/violent/sexual) increase exponentially, it could be said that since it is not the "rich" or "Upper Middle Class" who get hit the hardest but the Lower Middle to Poor class that DO get hit hard that there are rising rates of such crimes in such areas.

Moving on, it is easy to quote statistics, easy to speak of the discrepency and easy to blame it is not so easy to provide solutions.

I do not believe in equality in the way in which it is presented, I do not believe in "holding hands" and coming together, such tactics do not do to better the racial/economical discrepencies, it furthers them in the delusion that "well "I" feel like we're equal so "I'M" ok", it does nothing to 'fight the man' and it cheapens the fight all the same.

I am a firm believer that there will always be those with power and those without but the nature of that power can change so easily and so rapidly that it is no wonder such things as "greed" so easily come into play.

If you speak to any truly educated revolutionist(I.E. not the racists who spur out slavery and ignorance) they will tell you that the "fight" is not a front to any particular race but to inequality as a whole, one that has rung true in every era, the idea of racism is a wholly new thing in nature but only just a different name for the same problem that no one wants to face.

So, what IS the solution? Think, look, see, understand and be willing to accept the truth when you face it.

As for Maliks' comments, did not Nigerians own slaves? In Fact do not South African Estates have slaves(of ANY race), or to be more historical, did not Egyptians(who many black cultures ARE in fact descended from) own MANY slaves, barring Jewish religious beliefs' there has been proof in the pudding, to say that "Blacks" do not commit such atrocities is to say they are somehow "different" than white people and defeats your economy.

Look, Listen and don't turn away in disgust just because you don't want to "associate". We humans, as a whole, should bear responsibility for ALL crimes and atrocities committed, we can not put blame on "race" or "gender" but on "humanity" and how we have treated crime.

What has happened to this boy was not just sad, it was an atrocity, the boy sought refuge in his family, to say the Mother had no idea how badly the Father would behave is a lie, she is her EX for a reason and I would be willing to bet that part of that reason is domestic abuse(whether filed or not) to assume she somehow believed he wouldn't be drastic(mayhap believing he would only "beat" his child senseless) is naive, at best, such is a crime in and of itself, she knew his reactions would be drastic, period.

A little boy is dead, whatever you believe about race or gender or a specific type of crime a life has been taken, this boy was given no chance to redeem himself which is so heart-breaking considering how lax the police try for sexual offenders, how lax our own Police Officers(as in Policy Officers) treat criminals of Sexual Behaviors and how harshly the justice system treats certain impoverished behaviors.

And yet, it is still not a question of race(though during Jim Crow I would DEFINITELY agree with you) but of what criminal behavior the public is currently detesting(drugs are usually the status quo) if you don't believe me, watch, when Rape is put in the limelight those who committ it get harsher sentences THEN than at other times, same with murder.

And, further, this is even more prominent with those in lower middle-poor class(see above) due to the fact that the Judicial system likely sees' that it costs less(for the government/state/police force) to simply lock repeat offenders(of these class systems) than allow them to continue on State/Federal aid.

But I digress, a little boy is dead, a boy who could have been given help(though unlikely given I doubt his parents would know about the state aid available for trouble youths') at any given YMCA area(of which there are enough that there HAD to be a center nearby) or some kind of Youth program, and yes, despite what so many think these programs DO work and splendidly well(as opposed to simply locking and throwing away the key).

As for Obama, I didn't vote though I commend his hard work and his dedication to the cause, even if I feel its' more of too little too late.

God help us all.

Pete Kotz said:

They were doing maintenance last night, Alexa, and that sometimes causes the comments thing to turn weird. Hopefully that's fixed now, but let me know if the weirdness emerges again.

I was raised that the only "Colors" are the ones in the box on the shelf in the den.
My dad is black, my mom asian.
I married a white man, my sister married a hispanic, my brother married a greek, and the baby is engaged to an irishman. We were also taught before placing blame to look hard in the mirror.

You go Sandi! perfectly worded!!! Colors are for crayons!!!

thank you. Finally see something worth commenting on on this thread.

Janice, I generally have a nasty attitude towards all people as stupid and delusional as yourself. Show some basic intelligence, and I'll stop being a prick. Deal?

And shut the fuck up about the Tea Party already. You don't know jack shit about them; you're just the type of racist bitch who likes to make baseless accusations of racism in order to keep the Tea Party away from the actual argument. And you do this because you know they'll fuck you up.

Janice, I know I've already beaten your ass senseless in this thread, but I feel like adding to the pain with this article I just found.

From one Tom Adkins:

"Look at my fellow conservatives! There they go, glumly shuffling along, depressed by the election aftermath. Not me. I’m virtually euphoric. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not thrilled with America ’s flirtation with neo socialism. But there’s a massive silver lining in those magical clouds that lofted Barak Obama to the Presidency. For today, without a shred of intellectually legitimate opposition, I can loudly proclaim to America : The Era of White Guilt is over.

This seemingly impossible event occurred because the vast majority of white Americans didn’t give a fluff about skin color, and enthusiastically pulled the voting lever for a black man. Not just any black man. A very liberal black man who spent his early career race-hustling banks, praying in a racist church for 20 years, and actively worked with America-hating domestic terrorists. Wow! Some resume! Yet they made Barak Obama their leader. Therefore, as of Nov 4th, 2008, white guilt is dead.

For over a century, the millstone of white guilt hung around our necks, retribution for slave-owning predecessors. In the 60s, American liberals began yanking that millstone while sticking a fork in the eye of black Americans, exacerbating the racial divide to extort a socialist solution. But if a black man can become President, exactly what significant barrier is left? The election of Barak Obama absolutely destroys the entire validation of liberal white guilt. The dragon is hereby slain.

So today, I’m feeling a little “uppity,” if you will. From this day forward, my tolerance level for having my skin color hustled is now exactly ZERO. It’s time to clean house. No more Reverend Wright’s “God Damn America ,” Al Sharpton’s Church of Perpetual Victimization , or Jesse Jackson’s rainbow racism. Cornell West? You’re a fraud. Go home. All those “black studies” programs that taught kids to hate whitey? You must now thank Whitey. And I want that on the final.

Congressional Black Caucus? Irrelevant. Maxine Waters? Shut up. ACORN? Outlawed. Black Panthers? Go home and pet your kitty. Black separatists? Find another nation that offers better dreams. Go ahead. I’m waiting.

Gangsta rappers? Start praising America . Begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. Please, no more ebonics. Speak English, & who knows where you might end up? Oh, yeah…pull up your pants. Your underwear is showing. You look stupid.
To those Eurosnots who forged entire careers hating America ? I’m still waiting for the first black French President.

Let me offer an equal opportunity whupping. I’ve always despised lazy white people. Now, I can talk smack about lazy black people. You’re poor because you quit school, did drugs, had 3 kids with 3 different fathers, & refuse to work. So when you plop your Colt 45-swilling, Oprah watchin’ butt on the couch & complain “Da Man is keepin’ me down,” allow me to inform you: Da Man is now black. You have no excuses.

No more quotas. No more handouts. No more stealing my money because someone’s great-great-great-great grandparents suffered actual pain and misery at the hands of people I have no relation to, and personally revile.

It’s time to toss that massive, obsolete race-hustle machine upon the heap of the other stupid 60s ideas. Drag it over there, by wife swapping, next to dope-smoking. Plenty of room right between free love and cop-killing. Careful…don’t trip on streaking. There ya go, don’t be gentle. Just dump it. Wash your hands. It’s filthy.
In fact, Obama’s ascension created a gargantuan irony. How can you sell class envy & American unfairness when you & your black wife went to Ivy League schools, got high-paying jobs, became millionaires, bought a mansion, and got elected President? How unfair is that??? Now, Like a delicious O'Henry tale, Obama’s spread-the-wealth campaign rendered itself moot by it's own victory! America is officially a meritocracy. Obama’s election has validated American conservatism!

So, listen carefully…Wham!!!

That’s the sound of my foot kicking the door shut on the era of white guilt. The rites have been muttered, the carcass lowered, dirt shoveled, and tombstone erected. White guilt is dead and buried.

However, despite my glee, there’s apparently one small, rabid bastion of American racism remaining. Black Americans voted 96% for Barak Obama. Hmmm. In a color-blind world, shouldn’t that be 50-50? Tonight, every black person should ask forgiveness for their apparent racism and prejudice towards white people. Maybe it’s time to start spreading the guilt around."

Officer Pat, well done and bravo. Goodnight dear soldier, sleep well.

I just have to add my humblest opinion on this thread. Usually I am full of sarcasm and a S.F.W. attitude but in this case I am not siding or agreeing with anyone particular poster. I am in agreement with a little bit of all of you. First of all diamondgirl I think you are cool as hell because I as well as you was not offended by Janice's thread (posts).I see something in them a little more sincere than she is getting credit for.
I can also see how some of it can be misinterpreted. As well as the fact Janice seems to be admitting to making an assumption about every white person she meets based on some deep rooted suspicion about white people.But accusing of the same. It has gone on forever. Between simple miscommunication in this thread and a few attempts to degrade things are not being resolved. Mud is just bieng slung.
This saddens me becauseI am white but my child is bi-racial. Black and white. Her step dad is white but her biological father was black. I have always been and still am middle class, average income. I don't live in a double wide, I don't get welfare. I am educated but a pothead THAT is the reasons for my poor (long forgotten grammar skills).Before my daughter (who is 10) was born I was told that she wouldn't know where to fit in growing up in school. Where the blacks nor whites would "accept" her.I had doomed her future, I heard this from blacks AND whites. In some ways I bought into that. Later. But when she started school there were just as many biracial children (though still a minority) far more than when I was in school.I was told a white man would never date me after she was born and all kindsof crap.Truth is It hasn't been as bad as I feared. But obviously the issue has come up. She told me once when she was four she wished she were "white like you mama". I will NEVER forget that. I told her she was beautiful BECAUSE of who she was not in spite of it. As she has more understanding what that means now more than then. Still. I hate having to protect her from those who would make assumptions about her or me because of race.
It is true that the past holds us down. Though slavery DID happen it is but one thing,history. Angry grandma said it best in pointing out black men and women have died for this country as well.Matter of fact when 9/11 happened our unity was stronger for a while. But as with most things old habits die hard.
I agree class plays its own role in the grand scheme of things too. But it always depends who you are up against.Race or not people are also individuals. I want to be able to tell my daughter that it is a perfect world and no one can hate her for how she was born after all, it isn't her fault. But there will sadly always be someone somewhere that will.

I won't make any assumptions about you or your daughter based on race. Not at all. But I will make assumptions about you based on the fact that you're a mother who admittedly uses drugs. Lead by example...NOT!

Hiring a Black President means not, the fight, is over.

Pat THIS is true. But were I to have said I smoke drugs in FRONT of or even with my child that would be another thing. I didn't ommit the fact because it is a fact.I just wanted to fit it in before MY grammar was attacked. BUT, my child has no knowledge or idea of this. Parents do have a right to things private. A life seperate from what is within plain sight. Does it make me a monster no. I didn't say I was a crackhead.
Nor do I like alcohol. We won't argue which is worse because it is a mute point. I would never encourage or expose my young child to this circumstance, nor do I drive high, or walk around all day everyday high. It is no different than if you are a father who occasionally goes out on the town and has a beer.

Actually, there is a difference. It's legal to go out on the town and have a beer. It's not legal to smoke pot, no matter where you smoke it. You're breaking the law. Stop trying to justify it.

I don't have to justify it but I am not ashamed by it if thats what you hoped. I am far from these so called women you read about on here and there idea (or lack of) parenting. I don't have to justify myself to you.Anyone who has smoked it knows the effects are less than that of alcohol. Legalities are simply that the "goverments" opinion or control of something. Once we thought the earth was flat too.

@Illusions
I read your post above-thank you. I think you are cool too.I think your daughter is lucky to have such a kind thoughtful mother. I agree with you about alcohol versus pot. There are countless stories about people getting drunk and murdering people,drinking drunk and killing people,and domestic violence from mean drunks. Countless families have been destroyed because of alcohol. If anything alcohol should be illegal.

I believe it's only a matter of time before pot is legalized.

Diamondgirl I think you are alot like me. There is so many "cliques" that like to get out here and gang up on someone, even if their opinion has been completley misconstrued throughout this whole thread. I am not part of any clique on here. I agree with some sometime and not others. But once you disagree and have your own opinion people tend to want to single you out or go for things unrelated to any subject matter at hand.
I too think it is a huge reality that pot will be legalized. Its not if but when. Maybe not another ten years down the road, but I digress.
If I did drink beer I wouldn't offer my daughter any nor expose her to an alcohol party, or any other of the things one may try to imply out here.I would never encourage my daughter to smoke cigarettes let alone pot.When she hits teen years no doubt questions and curiousity will arise, but I like to think I will maintain a healthy enouph relationship with her that if she needs to talk or ask questions of me she will.
Lumping pot into a catagory with things like Meth, cocaine, or herion is just the result of not knowing.

@Illusions
We are a lot alike Illusions,and you are dead right about the cliques. A group of cyber bullies who get off on hurting and humiliating people who deviate from their narrow and intolerate agenda.

I'm not sure if all these keyboard cowards are real posters. It's funny how magically they appear to add their childish input when the main bully has chased someone all over the thread name calling and insulting them. And they all sound the same.LOL!

Illusions you do not have to explain yourself to anyone. I'm sure your daughter will grow up to be a kind and intelligent woman just like you.

I'M SO HURT ABOUT WHAT THE FATHER DONE TO HIS SON .I WISH THE MOTHER WOULD HAVE CALLED THE POLICE SOONER MAYBE HE WOULD BE A LIVE TODAY BUT IT SEEM LIKE SHE COULD HAVE RAN WITH HER SON SOMEWHERE AND GOT SOME HELP I FEEL LIKE THE MOTHER IS GUILT AS THE FATHER BECAUSE SHE STOOD THEIR AND LET THAT HAPPEN TO HER SON.I BEEN CRYING EVERDAY BECAUSE I'M A GRANDMOTHER MYSELF.THE CHILD DID NOT RAPE HIS SISTER A LOT OF TIME PARENT MAKE THERE BOYS BABYSIT FOR THEM SO THEY CAN GO OUT WITH THEIR MAN. LET BOYS GO TO THE BOYS CLUB MEET OTHER CHILDREN THEIR AGE SPEND WITH YOUR CHILDREN I KNOW HE IS IN A BETTER PLACE WITH GOD!!!!!!!!HE TRIED TO TELL HIS HE WAS SORRY AND WANTED HELP AND WANTED HER LOVED AND FORGIVNESS SO HE COULD BE HAPPY MOST CHILDREN WOULD HAVE TOLD THEIR PARENT ANYTHING.I KNOW IT WRONG BUT I HATE HE TOLD HIS MOTHER SHE TOOK IT THE WRONG WAYS .IF YOU HAD GOD IN YOUR LIFE YOU WOULD HAVE DONE THIS PROBLEM IN A BETTER WAY.MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU THE HARM YOU CAUSED YOUR SON!I HOPE HIS FATHER ROTTEN IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Illusions and diamondgirl9, watching this thread evolve had convinced me to be done with this site and its hatefulness. I am so glad I popped on this morning anyway. You two have just restored a bit of my faith in us all. Thanks

@mousepovna
I understand how you feel- I have felt the same way. The hatred directed towards people who simply disagree with their point of view is amazing. You and I have disagreed on some occassions but that doesn't bother me,and I'm sure it doesn't bother you.

I guess that's what happens when you have no power and importance in your real life-you have to jump bad behind the safety of your computer screen. It's pathetic really.

I'm glad you popped in too. Well,I'm going to visit my sisters and grill a few hamburgers-hope to see you soon on the board.

It still blows my mind how obviously ignorant some people can be as far as race is concerned. Both sides tend to be overprotective and tend to stupidly justify whatever actions they may take to defend or attack based on such presumptions.

However, it is wrong to "baby" this idea of racism and wrong to protect so fervantly against it. Your child, biracial or no, should never be distinguished between either, it should never be glorified nor downplayed on WHAT a child is, just that each child is different.

In focusing on defending culture we attack it and glorify said attacks, we perpetuate the wheel of "self-victimization" if a child or another is attacked based on race the person who attacked should be counted as the ignorant person they are but should not in turn be attacked because of their belief system.

To truly combat ignorance we must ACCEPT that ignorance and allow it to flower however it will. The Majority do not think in the strictest thoughts of "color" and thus it is only the "minority" who believe that "race" is a factor in whatever ideal or action or belief is upheld.

It is not that it needs to be ignored but rather accepted, and, even acknowledged, people will believe as they will no matter how stupid any belief is and to truly fight it is to continue to pursue that race doesn't matter.

I guess it sounds like a big circle, let me sum it up:

Its' not the fact that that person was "wrong" and you are "right" but that yours is to make more sense, no?

We've fought this battle on "well he/she is wrong and I am right." instead of "well, he/she is allowed their own opinion but I'm not going to interpret it into my own basis of truth".

Focus not in forcing others to listen but upon introspection, only when we accept the ignorance within can we combat the ignorance without.

Or so I have been taught.

@ Diamondgirl and Mousepovna. First of all mousepovna I happen to have enjoyed your insight on quite a few of these threads, so I truly hope you stick around.
Also to both of you I have thought on a couple different occasions that I didn't know if I wanted to come back to TCR. Though I have been coming and keep returning for quite some time.
Its mainly because of Pete and also because of a few posters like saint who really have something to say and do so with a great deal of dignity and respect even in the face of disrespect. I have also lost my cool here before. But you can't unsent whats been posted.
I like reading different opinions, ideas, aspects on the threads but I am sick of the same old on and on "look at me and how much BS I can type in one post to show you how nanny nanny boo boo smart I am." And they turn on you at the drop of a dime if you try to show them another point they take it as a threat to their all knowing facade.
Unless another poster addressed me or was WAY out of line, I try to have tolerance for another view. We all learn something new everyday.So for another day I am hanging in ;)
@ Dylan. Sorta along the same lines we have to allow humans to error. I really liked your post. I do realize that all I can control is myself and MY beliefs, so point taken.

And before they catch me it was *unsend.

Tolerance for other's opinions is the enduring struggle of mankind.

Refusing to tolerate the intolerable is actually more difficult. There are too many among us who think we must tolerate everything to avoid being considered a hypocrite or intolerant.

No human alive over the age of two can hope to escape life free of hypocrisy. It is not the end of the world, nor the end of your credibility. Humans are nothing if not a study in paradox. So what.

Fighting the intolerable is much more difficult for there are those who belong to the camps that engage in the intolerable and simply to do not see themselves as violating any standard. They may in fact revel in flouting the current standards of modesty, sensibilities, morality or even the extremely loose standard of what constitutes criminal behaviour.

And so, the struggle is real and large to keep our society as a whole from degenerating to such low standards that nearly not even anarchy can attempt to govern it.

While a return to Puritanism is hardly desirable, this direction of travel, downwards to the loss of all standards, is not either.

I will tolerate other people's opinions only as long as those opinions do not negatively affect me.

I won't attack someone for quietly believing in some religion, no matter what that religion is. But I will attack someone's religion when it becomes a stated goal of their to make me a part of that religion and to kill me if I refuse.

I won't attack someone for believing that black people are unjustly treated in society. But I will attack them if they think the proper response is to steal my money for reparations and install affirmative action policies that negatively affect me.

I won't attack someone for thinking guns are unnecessary. But I will attack them when they decide that their view overrides my view that guns ARE necessary and that the best course of action is to stop me from buying and owning such things.

In the reverse situation, I don't believe in gay marriage. You know what my solution is? I'm not gonna get a gay marriage. You want one? Go get one. Just leave me out of it.

I won't encroach on you and you don't encroach on me. That's how my version of tolerance works. And that's why I fully believe in small government. It is the most agreeable system to allow as many people as possible to live exactly as they please.

@NellyMae
OmG U must be the most ignorant SOB in the world...havent u ever played doctor WOW...Im shocked!!! Since it is crystal clear that no one actually followed the case on in session, allow me to set the record straight!! That sicc ass little boy not only molested his sister...HE RAPED HER!!! Thats what made the dad snap! And what can I say the sick son of a bit*h deserved it...after all if he would still be alive that would be one more sicc child molester plotting on innocent children. For the rest of that little gurls life she will think all men want from her is sex, after all thats what her own brother wanted. He plotted on her and he is sick!!!
ALL CHILD MOLESTERS SHOULD BE SHOT EXECUTION STYLE SICC BASTARDS

To the people talking about crime stats, you have to admit it's delicious Karma isn't it?

Years of eugenics, executing slaves that showed signs of intelligence, and going as far to make it illegal to even educate a slave? Well it not that that wasn't going to come bite you in the arse...

Sure if you force poor people to become middle class their children will probably be middle class but lets face it, you're talking generational plans here, and you buggers have only been really trying for like twenty years. It's going to be like another fifty before it really bares fruit.

As for touching the kid, that's bad. When you're a teenager you're curious, but hell you should be cuddling three year old children not molesting them.