Talk about an excellent ad for more biker gangs, gangstas, gang bangers to relocate to the fine state of Wisconsin: it hasn't had a death penalty for over 150 years.

If I were a tourist and I wanted to be sure that whoever killed me would enjoy the same fate, I'd make sure to avoid Wisconsin. They apparently like to supply victims, free of charge, to whoever needs one.

The prick was in illegal possession of a gun. I'm sure Wisconsin has gun laws, like all states. Obviously, the only persons obeying the law were the law-abiding citizens.

So prohibiting the tool does not overcome the will and resourcefulness of the human.

We are producing too many poor quality humans who think very little of our laws, and give no thought whatsoever to their citizenship, the betterment of our civilization or of healthy lifestyle values.

I realize there some here who think I'm a "conservative" (bad human), "Christian" (I'm not; bad bad human), "patriotic" (ugh! really bad human), "neo-con" (stinky bad human), "Republican" (again, I'm not; the utter worst human), and lately I've been "accused" of being a member of the NRA (OMG! how is it I am allowed to live?!?). All groups hated by those who want to stop the hate.

Right.

All those cloth stars are meant to discount my humanity, my citizenship and my intelligence, with special venom in this current political climate. (Can I say climate without being called a racist?)

When I defend an amendment of the Constitution and campaign for its more liberal enjoyment and protection, more like that vigorously applied to another amendment of the Constitution, I should be applauded and encouraged.

Especially by those who disagree.

My heart mourns the loss of the police officer and her beloved. I hope their families will achieve peace and justice sooner than later.

Sure the death of these two is sad. But in fact, they started this. The two killed were in love with themselves and couldn't fathom someone rejecting them as in "Wirth was weirding out."

Then "As he tells it, Peters then came up to him and asked him to step outside. Wirth was game. "If he wanted to (expletive) with me, that's life," he told police."

Asking someone to step outside is stupid like bringing a knife to a gun fight. All three went outside all three were in the altercation, all made bad choices. Fricken sad!

Oh, the double standards are so rich.

So here we have a 'female' cop who spends her nights getting liquored up in bars and grabbing asses of men she does not know. Apparently her boyfriend also gets a kick out of watching this behavior.

Now turn the tables: Rudy Redneck, a 275 lb. male deputy who also likes to get drunk in bars and grab butts of random women when he's 'off duty', (BTW, as any cop or former cop worth his or her salt knows, there is no such thing as 'being off duty') finds himself with one pissed off female patron who, until he grabbed her butt, had no knowledge of Rudy and was perfectly happy to have kept it that way. Think Rudy would be portrayed as 'playful'? That he 'grabbed butts as a joke'?

Booze is the most dangerous drug known to man. All who use it eventually succumb to stupidity. This 'cop' was probably just being stupid - a laughing, obnoxious, playful flirtatious drunk. Now introduce that person to another user of alcohol. This one a dark, brooding, dullard who finds any excuse to be angry. Now introduce the flirt's boyfriend (she's a cop but can't take care of herself - needs a boyfriend to clean up after her) who tells the dullard: "Let's step outside...".

Is it any wonder this turned out bad?

The real wonder is that this does not happen in and around bars a lot more often.

I totally agree with you, Beach, 1st of all they didnt deserve to die, however, did Jennifer think she was untouchable, because she is a cop and she can do whatever she wants to, especailly touching people unpropperly, just because she is a women and a cop doesnt mean she cant just go to anyone and start touching, and putter her hands on anyone, if a man touches a women on the butt, that would be called sexual assult, and so in my eyes she did sexual assult Andrew, and i feel bad for Andrew no matter where he came from or what his back ground was, he wasnt there for trouble, the trouble, Jennifer and Gregg, came to him and to me Andrew was just protecting himself. what did Gregg think that he was also able to whatever he wanted, and the law would protect him, just because he was dating a cop? again im not saying they should of died for this, however, Jennifer and her bad behavior, at some point was going to touch the wrong butt, and that is what she did?

Pete Kotz said:

You guys are right that she shouldn't have been pinching people's butts. And her boyfriend shouldn't have asked the guy outside, if only for the sake of her job. But don't you think the double-standard is valid here?

If a woman gets pinched, she's seeing it through a history of violence, rape and harassment. She has the legitimate fear that she has a stalker creep on her hands. But a men has no such fear. He doesn't see himself as prey in the face of a predator. It's so much easier to let it slide.

Wirth should have known that these are the weird things that happen in bars, he's gotta be a gentleman regardless of circumstance, and stupid beefs are always a lock to go bad.

It was dumb all around, but he's the one who raised a minor incident to murder.

I agree with you, Pete, to some extent. I agree that double standards should only be considered when all outside sources are equal. Women do at times fear men. It is very rare that a man fears a woman. However, I do feel that there is a chance that the two had a little more confidence when approaching matters because she was a cop. The bf probably felt that if it turned into a fight, there would be no chance of trouble. She also probably felt safer due to her profession. I feel that they looked at her status as a cop in the same way that we look at seatbelts in an airplane. They both can give a false sense of security.

Pete, totally agree.

No one deserves to be shot for being stupid. That being said Gregg Peters in not lilly white. His backround seems to have a history of poor judgement and a hot temper.

A sworn officer of the law should have more common sence than to let this escalate to the level this did. Everything must seem so clear through a beer glass at 1am.

My last comment seemed a little cold hearted. I do not for one second believe anyone deserves death because of drunken behavior as silly as this. I do feel though that the two may have been a little more confident than necessary. There are bad people in this world no matter your credentials.

Pete Kotz said:

Naah, you didn't come off as harsh, Concerned. Your point was well-made and probably accurate.

There needs to be a loser in every fight. No drunk guy is going to call it a draw. Peters called this guy out expecting to win. In the city of Jefferson that may be a very safe bet. Not anymore. This type of violence is no longer a big city crime.

Meh, they are all idiots. When you "ask someone to step outside" (over someone rejecting your cop girlfriends butt grab) you take the risk of not knowing who you are pulling macho bullshit on. I'd say he was acting in self defense, I know if someone was obviously going to beat me, i'd defend myself in any way possible, although i don't carry guns. By the way, grabbing peoples butts is sexual assault, weather male or female. Not to mention fine upstanding cop probably not even trying to stop boyfriend from beating someone "she was weirded out by". Cop or no cop, their are now three less violent idiots off the streets.

This doesn't make anysense... why would a girls boyfriend, want to fight a guy, who was mad that said girlfriend pinched his buttocks... to me, the BF should be pissed at his GF, and not this random dude...

it's going to turn out that it was this guy, who grabbed the officers butt... and the BF called this guy out for doing that....

guns are for pussies anyways.... but hey, supirsed to see that a Biker fought his own battle. Most bikers need to call all 15 of their buddies to fight their battles since they can't do it alone.

Are all you people that stupid? A steroid head like andy wirth really needs a gun to defend himself,come on. And to feel so inadequate he shoots a woman. You are all as nut as he is!!

If the tables had been turned, and a male cop was having drinks, listening to a band and grabbing or smacking unsuspecting females on the backside, he'd be taken outside. He would then hide behind his badge. Women would then take the opportunity to sue for sexual assault. Now, turn the tables and look at Andrew, a man with poorly choiced and place tattos on his neck. He'd never be taken seriously in that scenario. So he spurned the fun of the off duty cop and her boyfriend. They oviously were weirded out by this. I guess it isn't fun being called out of line...especially when you are...So they decided to call Andrew outside. Anyone worth their salt knows things are going south when that happens.

For someone who chooses to carry a gun, like chapstick, you know you're carrying because you intend to use it.
It doesn't shoot bubbles...you have already made the decision to one day shoot and possibly kill someone, whether in self defense or cold blood. The issue here was Andrew should have never been carrying as I dont think he retained the mental wherewithall to reason with that choice or make it for someone else. Andrew is not a big guy, this boyfriend did look bigger. And as they say, once outside, life got real, real quick.

Next, it's Diablo Lobos. The news keeps getting it wrong, like calling another biker club we all know the "No Laws" so hello? Please report it correctly. Next, having met some of the DLMC, I can say they are not raving map cop killers and should not have even been brought into this or made quilty by association. The news is obviously making it more sensational.

It is a senseless tragedy. An immature man's ego was bruised and in return he unloaded on an off duty cop and her boyfriend, who were defending drunk and stupid behaviour. Hopefully everyone can learn from this. And make changes accordingly, either in their own personal dealings, or the law.

I am truly sorry for Ms Lucik and her boyfried and their friends and family. I am also sorry for Andrew...all three had misguided planets line up and this is what happened after invovling alcohol and weapons.

Just because women are much less likely to rape men does not change the fact that women can sexually harrass men. Happens in workplaces all the time. Women can also physically abuse men, particularly men who have it engrained in them never to raise their hand to a woman.

So no, the double standard is absolutely, positively not warranted. It is not ok for women to touch or invade the space of men who don't want to be touched.

I'm sure the writer would be singing a different tune if this was one of those teacher and student cases with a 30-something teacher and a 15 year old boy.

For crying in the night - there is no way that ANYBODY in law enforcement should go around pinching ANYBODY'S ass that hasn't preauthorized said ass-grab.

Whatever happened to personal space?

I tell ya what happened. It was settled outside, per Gregg Peter's request.

All I can say to you crazy obama loving liberals is DEATH PEANALTY!

Check Gregg Petersons history on ccap. I think it explians itself. He just found someone who would fight back.

I am from the TOWN OF OCONOMOWOC, TO ALL WHO SAY IT WAS OUR OFFICERS FAULT--GET A CLUE! When I was younger I remember going to bars and doing really stupid stuff-no one ever shot me. I think this evil peice of skin, deserves the same fate he gave to those two people who were having fun--you know she never said to that idiot hey I am a police officer-she did not deserve this--and because of this evil S.O.B. we are now without the nicest police officer this small town has had in awhile! WHY DID HE HAVE A GUN THERE TO BEGIN WITH? HE WAS LOOKING FOR TROUBLE AND UNFORTUNATELY--JENNI AND GREGG--WERE TWO VICTIMS OF A CLASS A EVIL MORON! So next time a woman is fooling around at a bar-is this what will happen? He deserves the death penalty!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, That's Gregg Peters

I hope they fry this piece of garbage! Typical coward! Rot in hell you maggot!

The Truth You sound like a true coward that needs a gun to defend himself against a woman!, I'm not sorry, Your an asshole thats the truth!

He has a neck tattoo, the international signal for "Since It's Not Self-Evident, You Should Know That I Am a Very Bad and Dangerous Man."

Excuse me? I have a neck tattoo. Many members of bands I enjoy have neck tattoos. Several people I know have neck tattoos.
And for myself, as well as those I know personally, we're good people who abide laws, pay taxes and have decency for other people regardless to whether they're assholes to us.

So dude, lay off on your stereotyping. Tattoos on specific areas of the body do not make for a person's actions.

This guy, however, is a dick. I'm sorry for the families who have lost someone, and the family of his for having a total loser in their gene pool.

This Andrew Wirth seems like a pretty bad fellow. His throat tattoo proclaiming "Nothing Left to Lose" should have been seen as a screaming clue to both Mr. Peters and Officer Luick.

The life lesson here is threefold. 1) Don't hang out in bars where people like Mr. Wirth tend to frequent, 2) Don't pinch the backsides or otherwise unnecessarily taunt men like Mr. Wirth, and finally, 3) Don't ask people like Mr. Wirth to step outside in a provocative manner unless you have every intention (and the means) to kill him once he complies with your wishes.

I confess that I am adamantly against the death penalty. Nevertheless, I also appreciate the fact that there are men in this world who need killing. Mr. Wirth seems like one of those people. The tragedy is that neither Peters nor Luick seemed to recognize Mr. Wirth needs until it was too late for either one of them.

And so it goes...

This is a perfect example of how America has become. All is taken too often for granted. Tempers flaring at all the wrong times if not too soon. People getting personally hurt where they can still live, and yet they live like they died. This happening is only a mere example of what America has evolved into. It is never too late to change it. We all can learn from this and incorporate the lesson learned into each our own lives. If not a benefit for these 3 poor souls in relativity, then at least a lesson for ourselves, in a more positive understanding. Every person is different, but we can all still be as one.

He was just protecting himself?! Are you insane?! So she pinched his ass, her boyfriend asked him to step outside, and he shot them, because he was protecting himself. How stupid does that sound? Whatever happened to the old fashioned fist fight? Or an ass whoopin? And he made the statement he "didn't think the guy got hit enough times to die." How many times were they hit? And how many times did he think he needed to shoot them? To me, after the first shot, that's just cold blooded murder.

I have been to my fair share of bars. People drink and get stupid. I have had my ass pinched and have pinched my fair share of asses. Its usually meant to be taken as a joke. Yes sexual harrasment is real, but come on people. Where do we draw the line between sexual harrasment and just messing around?

All 3 were at fault, but that doesn't give this creep the right to take someone elses life, much less 2 lives. I don't feel sorry for him at all. Jennifer and Greg may have made a mistake, but this guy made the biggest one when he pointed a gun at two people and killed them in cold blood.

So an Officer of the Law commits a Felony (Gross Sexual Imposition) and the Victim uses lethal force to defend himself from the Felon's apparent accomplice, yet now the Victim is being again Victimized? Sounds strangely familiar when presented in a different light...

Lets be clear no one said anyone should die or be shot for this. I just call it as I see it. I read in her obituary that "her 12 year old son was her priority". Priority? I ask why a 37 year old mother and police officer she was in a bar at 1 am grabbing strangers ass's. That sounds like the activity of a drunk. Now she goes and tells her meat headed boyfiend she's upset. He now calls the guy out. Poor Judgement at it's alcohol fueled finest. She should be held to a higher conduct standard as a police officer.

I agree that the piece of trash that killed then should suffer the same fate but he won't. Thanks to the spineless feel good democrats that run this state he will rot for a while but not die..

As for Gregg Peters he simply got more than he barganed for. Intimidation may have worked in the past on others but not this time. Jenni Luick was the innocent bystander in the line of fire. No one will learn. Until we start respecting each other it will happen again and again in every larger city. It's only a big deal beacause she was a "off duty" female cop shot in a small quiet town.

I am a friend of Andrews. Grew up together in Pa. Though he is no longer the same Andrew that was a friend, I still prey for his soul finds peice. For everyone jumping at wanting a death penalty for Andrew, well you may have your opinion, but when it comes down to it, your not God, therefore you do not have that power to decide someones fate. Andrew will have whats coming to him, even if its not that immediate fixation of death as some feel should accure, he defiantly will be delt with in time. To those souls who passed on during those last moments I prey for them too, as it is very sad for the victims and families alike. No matter what the events that transpired to the sad situation, it on a higher level no longer matters wether someones ass was pinched, male or female, wether a guy was feeling like acting macho for an outside altercation, or a female cop just having fun, no matter any of those circumstances, non of them should be dead, or have died for it and thats final. I wish peace to the families and friends of the victims and Andrew, including all of the readers out their.

The behavior of police officers, both on AND off duty is a reflection on the department the officers work for. Running around assaulting people is absolutely unacceptable behavior for any officer, male or female. The Oconomowoc police department needs to do a better job of screening its applicants before hiring them. I think all three involved deserve Darwin awards.

Greg should of thought about the invitation to going outside. Obviously Andrew let it go after telling luick that he's on a date and to go away. RETARDS LOOK AT HIS NECK "NOTHING TO LOSE" U DON'T FU€K WITH PEOPLE LIKE THAT. and no Andrew did not move from Pennsylvania to get closer with the bike CLUB NOT GANG IT'S A CLUB he came to Wisconsin for other reasons....

Andrew is a close friend of mine like a brother he has my support ! Love u brother ! ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ! STAY STRONG ! IF ANYONE IN HIS FAMILY OR FRIENDS READ THIS LET HIM KNOW WHAT I SAID ! HE WILL KNOW WHO I AM ! WE WORKED TOGETHER AND TOOK YOU FOR YOUR DISK O GRAM FOR YOUR BACK ! I WILL TRY TO SEE U SOON ! GOOD LUCK ! BROTHER !

All 3 are at fault, all 3 made some pretty stupid decision.

1.Jennifer Luick - If it wasn’t for her ‘butt pinching spree’ she and her bf will have still been alive. She ought to know that, fun or no fun, she SHOULD not be touching people’s private parts without their PERMISION. When she realized the guy didn’t appreciate her touching him she could have simply said ‘Well, ok..fine, no need to get mad’ and walked away WITHOUT ANY FURTHER ACTIONS. If the guy didn’t want his butt pinched, it is he’s right to express it. She should have respected that and walked away. As a cop she should know better than anyone that the GUYS RIGHT HAS BE RESPECTED
2. Gregg Peters- I can’t seem to understand how a guy will get mad at another guy because the latter didn’t appreciate his girlfriend touching his butt . That is just plain weird and ridiculous. Why will a guy want to get in a fight for THAT reason. It’s a complete waste of energy to fight with this motive in mind. If Andrew had sexually harassed Jennifer, that will have been an ok reason to fight but the other way round? O_O
Gregg had caused the incident to escalate by having Andrew ‘step outside’. Why couldn’t he have stayed out of it or simply talked to the man.
3. Andrew Wirth- The ultimate mistake was to take a firearm and kill these two. The crime of sexual harassment doesn’t equal the crime of murder. Many people say that some crimes should be punished by making that perpetrator suffer the equivalent of what he/she did. In this case, murder should not have been used to teach these two a lesson. There could have been other alternatives without resorting to murder. Why couldn’t he fist fight like someone mentioned above? If he felt threatened by Gregg, there was always the option of swallowing his pride and walking away. That would have saved lives.

Jennifer should not have pinched his butt and on top of that run around and tell her boyfriend , Gregg should not have asked Andrew to ‘step outside’ ; that is provocation(he paid dearly for it) and Andrew should not had acted so aggressively. It doesn’t make sense to kill people over such an insignificant accident.

In conclusion, all 3 of them played a part in fueling this incident and it’s very sad that people lost their lives because of these childish decision making and conducts

First lets look at who this hurts most ... Jennifer Luicks son and partents. How incredibly hard will this be for her son to tell other why his mom is dead. She did not deserve to die ... but I have known Jennifer from grade school to high school and she took fun and games to a whole new level. Your a mom, raising a child, at 37 its funny to pinch butts while you are out with your boyfriend? Jenny should have grown up a bit by 37. Plus you are a police offier, you are held to a higher standard, and you think it is ok to do violate others. Jenny made may bad choices to hang with rough crowds. Her parents sent her to great private schools, she knew better. And to take it to a level of getting mad since this 24 year old did not appreciate you pinching him ... that is nuts. Come on officers out there seeing Jennys actions as saintly ... they were not. This behavior that she has come to know as normal for her cost her life, a son with out a mother, and parents who will now have to raise their grandson and feel deep pain forever. And yes, Andrew Wirth should pay for what he did ... a terrible choice was made that night. It is just all so sad all the way around. My heart and prayers go out to the parents of both Jenny and Gregg and to the sons of Jenny and Gregg. May something good come out of this for their children. Let there be angels amoung us who step up to the plate to be a good role model for their children. Prayers for their families.

I cannot believe some of you people are trying to justify this. It's pretty straightforward: a guy went and killed two people with a brittle provocation that amounts to 'she annoyed me.' He shouldn't have even been carrying a gun where alcohol was, he didn't have to 'take it outside', and he sure as hell didn't have to open fire on anyone. Wirth = At Fault. End of story.

I've known Jenni for a long time, as well as her family. Yes, she did make a mistake by pinching Wirth's butt. However, if you knew Jenni, you would know that she was only joking around and was not trying to harrass or "assault" Wirth. Based on what Wirth told the police, and also based on his behavior in court on Monday, it's easy to figure out what his reaction was in the bar when he was "assaulted". I'm certain that he got in her face, and that extremely vulgar and profane behavior followed. This was why Gregg confronted him and told him to step outside. Gregg was no angel and was a guy who didn't back down from a fight. It's too bad that he didn't handle this differently. However, the mistakes by both Jenni and Gregg being pointed out, Wirth's subsequent actions were wrong and unforgiveable. There is no excuse, no rationalizing, that makes his actions ok. Jenni never broadcasted what she did for a living and Wirth even said that he didn't know she was a police officer. As for Gregg, the last thing he needed was the "security" of knowing that he was with a cop. Gregg didn't care about that and certainly thought he could handle Wirth himself. And had Wirth fought like a man, instead of pulling out a gun and killing Gregg, the outcome could have been very different. He then killed Jenni after shooting Gregg. How necessary was that? Do you think that Wirth, the tough-guy biker-gang-wanna-be, actually felt "threatened" by her? He is 24 and is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, as he absolutely deserves to do. Two people are dead, one of whom was a great police officer, loved not only by her co-workers but also by the people she served in the Town of Oconomowoc. This is tragic all the way around. But don't make excuses for Wirth, trying to make him out like an innocent victim. He is a piece of garbage, as his behavior in court aptly demonstrated (lunging towards the family of the victims, screaming profanities, necessitating the use of a tazer and 5 deputies to subdue him). Hopefully everyone can learn something from this mess.

I can't believe what I am reading. Those of you who defend this killer, and speak about how the police officer was wrong here....how can you sleep at night with such a cold heart? Honestly, I am speechless. This police officer was a mother. She was a young healthy woman, out having a good time with her friends. So what if she pinched his butt? So what? It was all in good fun. Nothing she could have done deserved this. Her young son will now have to grow up without a mother, and I can tell you....no way does he deserve this. He should be charged with 3 murders, both people who were murdered in cold blood....and for the life her son has lost because of this terrible tragedy. All of you who defend this monster....you need to find peace somewhere in those empty souls of yours before it's too late.

whats wrong with this world? In Seattle, we already lost 5 police officer already. These people are sick and need help. To my opnion, if you kill someone, you should be killed and put to sleep.

HERE IT IS WED. MORNING AND I GO ON GOOGLE TO FIND OUT FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR JENNIFER LUICK ONLY TO FIND A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT SUOORTING ANDREW WIRTH. HE WAS A PIECE OF DOG SHIT AND THAT IS ALL THERE IS. OF COURSE HE WILL BE A HERO IN PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE BECAUSE HE KILLED A COP. I HOPE HE MEETS THE SAME FATE AS ANOTHER PIECE OF SHIT WHO DIED IN PRISON AT THE HANDS OF A FELLOW PIECE OF GARBAGE. THE INFAMOUS JEFFREY DAHMER

THE FALCON

I'm overwhelmed with what I am reading; I was not expecting to see so many comments against J. Luick. She is no less a great cop because she pinched someone’s butt. Women or Man it is a small misstep of influence of alcohol and we ALL make a lot bigger mistakes then to pinch someone’s butt. None of us were there to understand the context of " Let's Step Out Side" this is a senseless horrible crime. If your sister/cousin/mother/friend pinched someone’s butt and they were shoot and killed would you all make the same comments that you have posted here? I DON'T THINK SO! Show some support for the family of the victims.

Well, after reading everyones comments, I have decided you all need a little insight as to whom you are talking about. I know Andrew, I used to work with him until he was put on medical for a back injury. When I first met Andrew he was as sane as they come. He moved here , not to meet with his biker gang buddies, like the papers say, but to work. He received a good job, and was doing very well. His friends were people he worked with and he was fun to be around. After his back injury he was no longer able to go to work due to various antibiotics and pain medicine. The medication almost made him goofy. But he was still responsible with it. We would go out as groups of friends and he would drink water so not to lessen his ability to function. I personally remember getting into an argument with him at a bar over him using the womens bathroom and not putting the seat down. He got very defensive then and we hardly knew eachother. But the next time I saw him we were fine and we both apologized because it was so stupid. Just as this ass grabbing is. He completely changed from the next time I saw him. He didnt have his fellow employees to hang out with all the time and came off as a loner. He started to act, for lack of better words "thuggish" and like a hard ass. That soon changed after he had gotten beaten by his "so called" new friends. About a month later, he was now residing with this biker gang and moved out to Jefferson. I remember seeing that gun, when he first bought it. It wasn't for the gang...many people own guns. However after he moved to Jefferson no one knew what would happen to him. This is the first I've heard of him since. Apparently he tried to come back to work last month because he was released from medical but within that time we had a layoff and he was still out of work. He felt as if he had no choice to go back to his biker gang.

I guess my point is, he was never a terrible person and didnt act out on violence like this, he just had a temper like the rest of us. I don't know why this happened.

I do however think it is very disappointing that some of you are almost accusing the victims. Do I think they should be aloud to do anything they want because she's a cop? HELL NO! And I do think they started this whole situation but there was no excuse whatsoever for Andrew to pull out a gun and shoot them.

As an acquaintance of Andrew's, I personally think he got messed up with the wrong people.

It's so tragic that something like this had to happen, no matter what it was over. The bottome line is 3 people lost their lives out of pure stupidity.

I think the operative statement here is "pinched his butt."

How many comments are there that say "So what if she pinched his butt?"

Well, that, to me, was clearly the trigger to this terrible tragedy. Had this police officer kept her hands to herself, there would have been nothing at all to escalate.

Had Gregg kept his mouth to himself, there would have been nothing to escalate.

Mr. Wirth would have remained at his area of the bar, and Jennifer and Gregg could have continued their partying in their end of the bar. So, while it is terrible that Jennifer and Gregg got shot (outside the bar, where it was Gregg himself who invited the escalating situation) it is clear where and when the problem started.

Is Mr. Wirth a terrible person? Of course! Should he have shot Gregg and Jennifer? Of course not! But he would not have been outside, with his gun, had Jennifer kept her hands to herself and had Gregg not escalated the situation by calling Mr. Wirth outside.

What a waste. And so it goes...

It's a shame that 2 lives were taken and one (possibly) wasted. having said that, i will continue saying.... Being in a bar, having had a few drinks, and joking around was no reason or excuse to touch any one! I'm sure the 2 people that died were "great" to those close to them...just as i'm sure the shooter was great to some close to him (even if it were just biker dudes). I think Michelle summed it up best... all 3 were in the wrong.

but then again, we weren't there. after having been invited outside, who knows the conversation that ensued? The point is, no one knows what was going through their heads...but their actions spoke loudly that night... they were all to blame for the actions. this tragedy has no innocent bystanders, only willing participants. It's a sad situation... and a sorry society.

I dont know about this, the more I read the more I get the sense that it was the victims own doing. Was it right to shoot them, hell no but that is life. You dont go around pinching people in ther ass if you dont know them, you never know who your gonna piss off.

For all the people who are saying that it is Writh's fault, I would disagree, not to be mean or cold hearted but it is Jenny who pinched his butt, then she went back to her group and told her boyfriend Wirth was acting weird. Gregg then managed to enrage this guy, who you should stay away from, to take this outside. Those are 2 things that should not have happened, why even escalate this?? You kow the guy is bad news dont mess with him!!!

If you see a dangerous looking man do you keep on provoking him? hell no!!

And for people who say he is a monster and how can he do this......WAKE UP people, he is a fucking psycho, of course he can do this stuff, he probably likes it!!!

people are silly

What are the chances that if someone would have pinched her butt, being a police officer, that the individual would have been arrested, convicted of felony gross sexual imposition, and been a registered sex offender for life?

Did her actions merit the response? HELL NO!!! But the fact remains; The Cop was a Criminal (Sex Offender) on this one evening.

Regardless of who did what pinching of what body parts, it doesn't give anyone the right to kill another person. I'm disturbed to even see the irrational discussion that has ensued here. It seems as though there are many people who really need to rethink their moral standing. So, if I get annoyed with someone touching me, I can just kill them now and people will support me? Feel sorry for me? Wow! What does that tell society?

Here's my take: The butt pinching is really not the issue here because Andrew, from my understanding, went about his business once he made it known that he was on a date. The matter should have been squashed at that point. The problem here is Greg Peters. Greg should have never ask Andrew to come outside, especially if he didn't know him. I keep reading from the victims friends how Jenny didn't mean any harm and how it's a small town. Well, guess what everyone outside that small town don't think like small town people. Jenny should have pinched only those she knew. I don't condone the killing not one bit, but Greg, being the small town guy had something to prove and he got more than he bargained for. As for what was said or what happened once outside doesn't matter. Greg should not have asked Andrew to come outside. Don't agitate people you don't know.

Let me get this right..the guys who are siding Andrew..are you suggesting that during your drinking stupors you never messed with anyone - we are just looking at the butt pinching angle..I know guys forcing themselves on women and what not..but the cure is not bullets..it is insane for people to take up for Andrew. Today its the cops and if he comes out of this clear, tomorrow it could be you for maybe just spilling his drink while he is at a bar near you.

Hey S.A. your town cop and her dumb ass boyfriend got what they deserved. Playing stupid games in a bar late at night with characters you don't know IS A REAL BAD IDEA!!! Like may of the others that commented, if the tables were turned and a guy was pinching womens' asses SEXUAL HARRASEMENT!!!!!!!would be shouted from the rooftops. When you call someone out late at night in a bar you better expect the worse because that's REAL LIFE !!

im sorry, but some of you get way to emotional. i didnt read any comments that said those people deserved to die. regardless of a persons stance on the behavior of the chick, no one said she DESERVED to die, or that it was right for wirth to handle the situation in that manner. HOWEVER, it does once again bring forth another double standard that our society needs to eliminate if we are to truly strive for equality. had the roles been reversed, where a male was touching females, even if completely innocent, he would have been in a fight real quick.

im reminded of a story that made national news recently where a guy who just woke up, walked to his kitchen naked, and a woman on the street who was looking into his house decided to call the cops and act as if the guy was flashing her daughter, he was not. but because he is a male he was brought up on charges that could ruin his life. now lets reverse roles, had it been a woman walking naked through her house and a man looking in, he would be instantly labeled a pervert and be fucked for the rest of his life.

i guess the point of my post is that some of you need to learn to put emotion aside. people arent being assholes, they are looking at the situation objectively. which, as a person totally on the outside of it, they should. most of you didnt know the people involved, you arent doing anything to help society, or the victims families or anyone else by being emotional over some one you dont know. while human life, or death should be respected, you cant ignore the realities of the situation. nor can you ignore the societal impact that such an event has.

Tom Z, are you for real? Nobody deserved to get shot like this. Come down off your bad assed attitude and come back to reality, no one deserves to die over anything like this.

I hope you never get yourself into trouble like this, you never know if a loser like Andrew will cap your lame ass.

What a dumb ass.

Well, I don't know that anybody is siding with Andrew, it's just that if not for Jennifer's behavior, and Gregg's escalation of the situation, there would have been no tragedy.

Honest to God, it is horrible.

But, you have to rewind the tape to the beginning, not just to the part that suits you. So, the beginning of the situation was obviously Jennifer's pinching of the butt. And, Jennifer happened to be a police officer, who, I've been told, is an officer of the law 24-7 and should have held herself to a higher standard as it pertains to personal space and the touching of others.

The middle of the story is Gregg inviting Andrew outside (and for what? Certainly not to kiss and make up...)

The story ends in gunfire, which of course is not justified. I certainly don't think it was the right ending. But, Andrew didn't set the events in motion.

Darby, you said if Jenni hadn't...if Gregg hadn't...but what about if Wirth hadn't been carrying a gun, which by the way is illegal in the state of Wisconsin, then no one would have been shot. How in the world can anyone blame the two individuals who are dead at the reckless hands of this man? These two may not have been acting in a manner that is popular among everyone, but there's a big difference between doing something offensive and taking the life of another human being.

As for the "Well, if the tables were turned..." argument. When the tables are turned, very few women shoot the man that touches them in a bothersome or offensive way. Should they start? I don't even see how someone could defend the behavior of this guy. He has the right to get mad or, hey, press charges if he's that offended...

Andrew Wirth had that gun for a reason. He wasn't one bit scared to use it on someone, obviously. If he didn't use it on them, it was only a matter of time before he used it on someone else who ticked him off. He clearly has a short fuse if he can shoot people in cold blood for something as silly as this. Thank God it wasn't someone you loved.

SLP - I do agree with you in that if Wirth hadn't been carrying the gun, Jennifer and Gregg wouldn't have been shot.

I just wanted to point out what *started* the whole eventual decline into the shooting of the two, which, I hate to say it, is what it is.

No, of course they shouldn't have been shot. Absolutely not. There was no reason for it to have ended that way.

But, and I should say butt, the situation started with an ass grab, plain and simple, and veered off into an invited outside confrontation that was ended by Andrew. All I am saying is that you wouldn't have had one without the other. You just wouldn't.

Was Andrew justified? Absolutely not. And he will be punished. But it won't bring Jennifer or Gregg back, who I am sure would also take back their actions of they could (I would if I were any one of the three, trust me) since again, Andrew seemed to be minding his own business until Jennifer did what she did. And that unfortunately invited the mayhem that followed.

Hey JL THE IGNORANT, you sound like you're a game dude. Let's see how many bars you can go to, late at night, and threaten strange men (who look like trouble) with physical harm. We'll keep tract of how many times you get your LAME ass busted up and YES, EVEN SHOT TO DEATH!! The bottom line to this event is if you stupid enough to stick your hand in fire sometimes it's going to get burned off. Rarely do accidents just happen. They are the results of a number of stupid acts. Sometimes the results are deadly!

That's life?!?! Man, how jacked up is your thinking?

So by your thinking, if I'm at a bar, or anywhere for that matter, and a guy or girl touches me, and I get offended, I can just blow them away and you won't think there is anything wrong with that? Geez remind me if I ever do something horrible to make sure your on the jury. That way you can convince them that its just life.

Like I said before, yes jennifer shouldn't have pinched his butt. Some are right, you never really know who might take offense to it. Yes, greg shouldn't have told him to go outside, but who hasn't done that before? But that does not give this creep the right to kill two people in COlD BLOOD.

Now if they also had guns, I could maybe see him needing to feel he was threatened. But they didn't. He was the only one with a gun. And while on that subject, who in the hell takes a gun into a bar, unless they are lookin for trouble?

Now, we have no idea what happened once they were all outside. All we really have to go on is Andrew's word, and no offense, I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt. I don't trust murderers (is that right?!) all that much. But he never said they had guns, so its pretty safe to say once he pulled the gun, he no longer was the victm, he was the aggressor.

This is such a sad story. Better judgement could have and should have been used by eveyryone involved. But no matter what happened in that bar, it didn't give him the right to take two lives. The true victims of this are jennifer, greg, and their families and friends. The second Andrew decided to pull out his gun at a fist fight, he wasn't the victim anymore.

I hope justice is swift with this one. He clearly has some issuses, and so do those of you who defend his actions. Your just as sick as he is if you think this is right or justifiable.

My heart and prayers go out to jennifer and greg's family, especially jennifer's son. This idiot took away something that can never be replaced.

Oh, it's marie heck, another know it all. You still don't get it. It's not about what's fair or nice! When your at a place and a time where most of the people around are under the influence of a potentially deadly drug, common sense is often in short supply. The two deceased are not that way for ass slapping. That happened because they thought they could physically beat up a smaller man that didn't want to play their game. Alcohol made them think they were invincible and that Andrew was not going to defend himself with all possible means. marie heck, if you were about to get you ass beat, how far would you go to prevent that? Don't bullshit me, how far and what's this Cold Blood bullshit. If someone is going to physically hurt all bets are off.

Tom z,

I think its pretty safe to say, the majority of the people think your an idiot. And I'm a know it all because I have voiced my opinion? That's what this site is for.

And for the record, I have been in fights before. Whether I have won or lost, I have NEVER pulled any kind of weapon on someone else. Gun, knife, bat, broken glass, nothing.

Cold blood comes from the two VICTIMS who had no way to protect themselves from this idiot. He had a gun and they had........nothing. And no where does it state that they were even going to fight. Yes, that's what people generally have in mind when they say "step outside" but we don't know what happened once they were outside. Well, unless you want to take the word of a killer and you seem to be the kind of person who would.

Nobody has the right to go around pinching anyone else's butts. I think sometimes that women (well, who do this kind of thing) think that because they are women, they can. Guaranteed, if a guy did this to HER, he would have gotten his butt kicked AND arrested.

She was out of line to touch anyone, even if she WAS joking.

The fact of the matter is, you never know what someone else is thinking or what they will do. There's no excuse to shoot somebody, but like I said, you never know someone else's frame of mind. So keep your hands to yourself. If this woman did, she would still be with her poor little boy. He is the REAL victim in this. Common sense.. come on.

deepblueocean -- I'm going to help you out here, buddy, because some day you might actually want to make a good impression on somebody. You meant:

Andrew's -- not "Andrews
pray -- not "prey"
peace -- not "peice"
you're -- not "your"
someone's -- not "someones"
what's -- not "whats"
it's -- not "its"
occure -- not "accure"
definitely -- not "defiantly"
dealt -- not "delt"
pray (again) -- not "prey"
it's -- not "it"
whether -- not "wether"
someone's -- not "someones"
whether -- not "wether"
none -- not "non"
that's -- not "thats"
there -- not "their"

Free of charge, dude.

You all have to be kidding right? They started this and deserved this are you all crazy like this Andrew animal? So what if she was a cop she has every right to live her life on her off time as do we all with a so called normal job. She was an exceptional police officer and will be sadly missed by all of us in the community she patroled and God bless her and greg and Her son Colin as he is now without a mother. I hope Andrew gets killed or raped in prison.

JENNIFER LUICK WILL HAVE HER FUNERAL ON TUESDAY AT KRAUSES FUNERAL HOME IN NEW BERLIN, WIS. ALL OF YOU SUPPORTERS OF ANDREW WIRTH SHOULD GO TO THE FUNERAL AND SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE LOVED JENNIFER. WHEN ANDREW WIRTH MEETS HIS MAKER WHILE SERVING LIFE IN PRISON COUNT HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL CARE ABOUT THIS PIECE OF SHIT

Thanks to all that wish the family well. To everyone else I just want to say no matter what Jenny and Greggs actions were that night NO ONE has the right to kill someone else. I am truely disgusted by your reaction to this horrible event that has taken a mother away from her son. Mabey before you judge others you should look at your own actions to see if you have ever done something silly. Also you are only listening to his side of the story mabey someone who just killed two people isn't the most reliable source.

One sexually harassed him and the other provoked a fight, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

Well, when Colin asks his new caregiver why his mommy isn't there, and the caregiver tells him, well, it's because mommy and Gregg got shot...don't you think that Colin will ask why?

And when he is told, well, your mommy pinched some crazy guy's butt, and then Gregg invited the crazy guy outside for no good reason...don't you think that Colin will think, dang, why did mommy pinch that guy's butt?

Colin is without a mother and that is a tragedy but I believe that had she kept her hands to herself, none of this would have happened. Barring that, had Gregg not invited the crazy guy outside, none of this would have happened.

As to the people who question Andrew's version of events, well, Jennifer's friend is also the one who gave the same version.

It doesn't matter who is the "better" person here. None of it should have happened.

I feel bad for Jenni's son. His mother made a bad choice under the influence of alcohol, and her boyfriend made an even worse choice to call Andrew outside for a fight. Of course Andrew made the worst choice of all. But, my first question is why would a cop allow her boyfriend to be involved in a bar fight anyway? It's a crime to fight physically. So I think she was hiding behind her cop status. I also happen to know that her boyfriend Gregg is an extreme hot head and has been permanently kicked out of at least two Oconomowoc bars. Hmmmmmm!!!! Please don't get me wrong. These killings were not justified. No killing is. I just want to point out that the victims made a deadly mistake. Andrew for obvious reasons should not have had a gun at a bar. Alcohol and weapons don't mix. Everyone involved had a part in this sensless crime. Who I feel bad for is her motherless son.

I hope that none of you heartless jerks ever have a family event that gets plastered all over the news. We are sickened and saddened by this event. If the table was reversed I would't try to make you feel worse by putting my 2 cents in. Instead of focusing on the event mabey you could feel for the other people involved.

Tom Z and Jim H. Both morons.

Both of you will probably end up in jail anyway with crap attitudes like this. You guys are clueless.

It bet your lives are going great right now?

Jailtime, drop outs, what else?

You guys have jobs? Live in a trailer park?

Both are dirt bags.

For all you people who think we are defending Andrew's actions, you need to re-read these postings. No One (well except for that one person) said that Wirth was justified in what he did. We are simply saying that the events were started by Jenni and her boyfriend. You must agree that touching a strangers butt is risky behavior. Especially someone that looks as bad ass as Wirth. He has that tattoo on his neck for a reason. It tells the world that he's a scary, dark, troubled person who doesn't want to be f'ed with. Stay away from people like that. Plain and simple!!!!! And then for Gregg to ask this dark and scary person outside was even dumber. Wirth is obviously the biggest idiot in this situation to bring a bar to a gun in the first place. All involved were wrong. That's the reality of it.

Family Member, I do feel for Jenni and Gregg's families. I have in fact had a death in my family that was in the news. So I know your pain. I guess I'm just angry that Colton has to be raised without his mother. I think it's a situation that could have been avoided. That's all I'm saying. Sorry.

There are levels of wrong in life.

Nothing like this rises to the level of killing 2 people.

The dirt bag brought a gun to a bar. He obviously had his reasons to do so right??? To defend against a slap on the butt.

The guy should've been thrilled that someone payed some attention to him. But his mental defect got the best of him and 2 people are dead now.

He choose to like a loser and proved that he is a loser.

FYI Gregg Peters and Andrew Wirth are BOTH men with anger problems. Peters has been charged TWICE with domestic abuse and restraining orders against women. One was in 2005 against his last girlfriend and one with Jennifer in 2008. In my eyes, both of these men are dark, troubled and evil! Now I don't feel bad for Gregg anymore after reading his criminal record. I don't feel bad for Wirth either. The ONLY ones I feel bad for are all three of their families and children.

THIS WHOLE INCIDENT WAS STUPID JENNI MADE A BAD CHOICE TO GO AROUND PINCHING MEN IN THE ASS. BUT HELL NO 2 PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MURDERD. ITS A FACT THIS LOOSE CANNON CARYING A CONCEALED FIREARM WOULD EVENTALLY KILL SOMEONE AT SOME POINT IN HIS LIFE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A RUDE BARTENDER, A SMART ASS DRUNK, AN ASSHOLE CAB DRIVER,OR AN UNEMPLOYED BUM, IN THIS CASE IT WAS AN OFF DUTY COP AND HER BOY FREIND WHO PROVOKED HIM FIRST. AND GREGG AT 40 SHOULD NO BETTER THAN TO BE INVOLVED IN BAR FIGHTS. SO BAD CHOICES BY ALL INVOLVED, AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS SHOULD MONITOR ALL BEHAVIOR OUT SIDE THE DEPARTMENT AS WELL BECAUSE TO MANY COPS GET AWAY WITH TO MUCH BULLSHIT AND THINK THERE ABOVE THE LAW.

ONE MORE THING JUST TO THINK ABOUT JENNI WAS INTOXICATED GREGG WHO ALL THAT NO HIM LIKES TO DRINK BOTH WERE INTOXICATED. THIS INCIDENT HAPPENED AT 130 AM BAR TIME 2.00AM WHO WAS GOING TO DRIVE HOME TO OCONOMOWOC JENNI OR GREGG???? both over the leagal limit if they would have hit and killed someone drunk driving we would have a very different story involving an off duty cop. ONCE AGAIN DEPARTMENTS HAVE YOUR OFFICERS STOP THE BULLSHIT THEY WONT GET AWAY WITH IT FOREVER.

Boomer,

You were in the bar so you know for a fact they were both intoxicated?

If you were not there then you shouldn't assume anything.

We do know as a fact that two people were killed that evening.

I don't care what the circumstances are, I just know that the nut job killed the woman and her boyfriend because he was touched on the ass by her, the stupidest thing I have ever heard. "Hey man, I killed my ex wife. What are you in for?" "Killing someone who pinched my ass at a bar" "Oh, was it a dude?" "No, a woman" "Oh, must have been one ugly bitch" "No, she was very gorgeous. But I am wierd like that." "Ok....(run a hit on this dude, please).

What an idiot. Throw his freedom away just to make a point. What is wrong with people today? And if you are going to get pissed at a police officer, get pissed at the guy who tasered the little girl! There are plenty others. Why is it that people are widely jealous of some people, and they only voice it when they know they will never suffer retaliation. Pathetic, folks. Real pathetic.

The only one to blame for Colin being raised without a mother is the killer. He killed a mommy and her boyfriend for doing something silly. I mean, that's like saying "I was kind of drunk so I danced in the cage at the club and when I fell out, I landed on this girl and she killed me!" and then all of you would say "What was this woman thinking going to a club, drinking, and dancing in the cage! She deserved to get killed because she was drunk when she fell on that other drunk girl and the other drunk girl has problems. She shouldn't have messed with her!" He should have just talked or fought but the gun thing is where he messed up. The idiot brings a gun to a bar, and uses it! Because his coward ass probably can't fight. He hides behind his gun, which is his false power. Sick and pathetic...

Well, we all know what they do to cop killers in prison...her comrades will serve justice, the way it should be served. I know, I know, if it were one of my family members or friends, etc. or even myself, how would I feel if these cops took justice out for a former cop when I am already being punished and humiliated, etc. My response: What else can I say?? If I killed a cop, who was in her plain clothes, regular every day form, hanging out, and I didn't even know she was a cop, and I killed her for doing something stupid, then I would know that everyday, I would probably suffer at the hands of those who will be in charge of me for the rest of my life and I wouldn't expect anything different. Own up to your mistakes and expect the punishment! Suck it up and keep moving.

@Usagizero

the truth of the matter is, you CANNOT use deadly force to defend yourself unless you reasonably believe your life is in imminent danger. Even then, you are required to retreat before you use such force

She disrespected him.
He told her off.
She went running to her boyfriend.
Boyfriend said lets take it outside.
He agreed.
He was faster on the drawer than boyfriend.
She tried to interfere, so he shot her too and if thats not what she wanted then she shouldn't have been there.
So where's the crime? He is the victim.
It was the cops who didn't want to behave.

To the Fool - it doesn't matter if the cop behaved or not, he still committed a murder. You don't murder someone because they are annoying you. You don't murder someone for disrespecting you. And if you do, then you are willingly giving up all of your freedom and signing your ass over to the government, who will in turn hand your piece of ass over to the prison, which is full of mayhem and it won't be pretty for him. He will suffer abuse by police officers, guards, other inmates, and probably go through a phase where he is someone else's bitch. We will probably see a LifeTime movie depicting his character and it will end with his begging for mercy OR being buried in the prison walls. And Fool, this is not an old Western movie lol your comment cracks me up. "faster on the drawer" don't you mean "faster on the draw?" Faster on the drawer would implicate that Greggs pulled a gun first but Wirth was faster on that drawer! But we all know only the ignorant one brought the gun.

These messages show what is wrong with America. These same people who are defending this bar fly cop and her meat head boyfriend are the same people who will defend soldiers who rape and murder for kicks.

ANDREW DIDN'T KILL THEM BECAUSE SHE PINCHED HIS BUTT. She pinched his butt, an argument ensued, Jennifer goes and gets her boyfriend to play tough guy. Tough guy boyfriend and bar fly cop invite bad ass biker guy outside to teach him a lesson. Biker guy shoots them both.....

Andrew Wirth... Another victim of the worlds largest street gang. The police.

Say what you will but that is how everyone will remember this shit-hole: HE MURDERED BECAUSE SOMEONE PINCHED HIS BUTT

Like it or not, that is what he perserved for himself. Rather than looking out for himself and thinking about what was best for him, he decided to take action and in the harshest way. May his ass be pinched in a different way in prison...

Like it or not, this is what Jennifer and Gregg preserved(strange usage) for themselves. Rather than looking out for themselves and thinking about what was best for themselves and their families, they decided to take action and in the harshest way they suffered the consequences. May their drunken violent ways rot in the ground...

ftfy

Blair - stop fooling yourself that Wirth shot them both because Jennifer pinched his but. NOT TRUE!!!!!! Wirth shot them in a heated argument. Are you forgetting what meat head boyfriend Gregg has done? He's a woman abuser. Look it up on ccap. So Gregg had just as bad of a tember as Wirth. He just didn't have a gun on him. I'm not saying they deserved to be shot, but I AM saying that all three had a part in this sensless crime. NOT ONE, ALL THREE!!!!!!!! The only true victims in this case are the family of Luick, Peters and Wirth.

I know andy! He's a good kid that went the wrong way. People should know what really happened before they judge someone... Its a horrible thing what happened to those two, god bless their families. God bless andys family as well. They lost a son too.

Res Ipsa,

Speak yourself.

/tongueincheek [*S*]

Crikey. Just when I think a subject is as discussed as it can be, along come a whole sub-strata of commenterati who can't leave well enough alone.

I watched the vid several more times and, to me, it looks like he's disgusted with what the prosecutor was saying, got up, turned around and was looking in the direction of the gallery and as the nearest bailiff was beginning to restrain him, the defendant flipped out. Thank goodness he was shackled and the bailiff was well-prepared.

He brought a gun to a fist fight. That is not allowed. This human shaped cancer has lousy impulse control and situation awareness. He is a clear and unpredictable danger to the public.

Soon he will be in prison for, in fact, the rest of his life, never able to receive a governor's clemency.

(Now do you see why I like the death penalty? No chance of a foolish governor coming along later who'll not fully understand the matter and proceed to un-do justice flattering himself into thinking that he's merciful where all the jury meanies weren't.)

AND: What level of force you can use in self-defense depends on your state. Generally, if you are being threatened, then you are free to use whatever you can to defend yourself. You are not the police, who have been slowly, little by little, defanged by the ACLU and arrogantly litigious ungrateful public. If you are in your own house, in Texas, you don't have to retreat first (the Castle Doctrine).

So, the better morale of the story is: don't attack someone for then you force them to defend themselves. Challenging someone to "step outside" is very well understood to mean you and the challenger, duelers, will duke it out, and that's all.

Next.

Sorry, it should be "moral", not "morale."

Oh for crying out loud. It should be: "Res Ipsa, Speak for yourself."

I'm beating the proofer now.

I knew Andy in high school, we had a few classes together. He was a good guy, protective of his friends, never left his guard down and would stand up for himself if needed! He liked to joke around and make people laugh and cheer people up. He was well known at our school, a popular guy, who was friends with almost everyone! So, before you all judge Andy, I thought you should know more about him.

I am currently going to school for Criminal Justice to become an a cop, then one day hopefully an FBI agent and I would not want to see my fellow officers die for something ridiculous! I feel sorry for Jen and her family, esp her son. Being I have a daughter of my own, I could not imagine her without a mother. However, Jen being a police officer should have known even "pinching someone's butt" is considered sexual harassment. Should she have died for that, of course not!

I feel everyone is to blame, not just Jen, Greg, and/or Andy. But for the other people in the bar as well, who knew what was going on. If Jen was my friend I would have told her to stop or pulled her to the dance floor so she would stop. And, if someone knew Greg was going to ask Andy to step outside, they should have tried to stop that as well! This was a horrible situation that could have been prevented!!!!!

I do believe in the death penalty. As for Andy, in high school he would have never done such a horrible thing if he hadn't felt threatened and if he didn't feel like he was going to lose his life. No one knows what truly went on outside except for the 3 invovled. As for Gregg, if my girlfriend was going around touching other guys, esp ones we didn't know, I would be extremely upset with and not at the guy she touched. Who wants to be on a date and have another person come up and touch them. I know I wouldn't want it and I would have gotten "weirded out", as it was put!

Once again, everyone invovled and their loved ones will be in my prayers!

MAMA ALWAYS SAID WHEN YOU CALL OUT A RAT YOU BEST BE READY WITH THE CHEESE. IN THIS CASE 9MM SEMI AUTO

Drunken tramp grabs man's ass.
Boyfriend is angry because drunken tramp gets no respect.
Boyfriend is going teach the biker to show his tramp a little respect. What an idiot. It appears they were looking for trouble. Mission accomplished.

andy was a lousy piece of shit that abused the people he claimed to love. Nothing meant anything to andy and he displayed that in many ways. The things that andy took pride in were hitting women, beating 2 year old children for having potty training mistakes, waving that very gun at an amazingly happy beautiful little girl and causing mental anguish to those so called "dates". Andy wasnt weirded out by an assgrab, he was pissed off that it didnt happen on a night when he was alone. Andy liked to make the impresssion that he was "more bad asser" he was an idiot. anyone that gave him an opportunity was an idiot as well. he knew that, and he went on a downward spiral when his retarded ass began to comprehend what he had become in the eyes of others. "nothing left to lose" yup guess so you fuckin loser

I am from Holland also known as The Netherlands, above Belgium and next to Germany. Maybe some of you know where it is located. From the other side of the world i found out about this horrible killing just by searching on the internet to look up some stuff. Then i saw the video of the courtroom and next thing i knew i was into this murdercase. What a loss for her child and her parents, where ever something takes place like this that always comes first. My mind goes out to them. THESE kind of killings are so far away here in Europe, read Holland. Why? Because guns are forbidden!!!!!
End of dicussion! I am convinced that if we were allowed to carry them down here we would face the same problems overhere. That's for sure. Now we have a situation here with a result of two people dead and more left behind with pain for the rest of their life! Don't get me wrong, i love America, i see it as haven on earth but at the same time you always need to watch your back overthere. That is so crazy! Never really relaxed because you never know what the outcome will be. And before everyone will start about weed and other drugs, free to get overhere, i would like you to know that we let everybody choose for themself because weed does not kill people, everybody is responsible for themselfs. Guns on the other hand always have the intention to kill. Owning guns is real freedom. Yeah right, but do not forget it is responsible for a lot of trouble as well. I would love to own a gun but it is forbidden and i know it is an evil object. On the other hand i want to protect myself...so it will always be a dicussion. This young man responsible for their dead will probably be in jail for the rest of his life. As i am writing this i know there are other people being killed at this very moment somewhere around the globe. It makes me a sead person. What kind of christmas is that.?? Anyway, i hope her parents and family will overcome and her son will be brought up with love and care. You Americans take care....it could be such a perfect place, and i know it allready is but there is so much more work to do.

Sad story,Thank God, Islam forbids alcohol!

Adam, you are a complete idiot! How can you make a blanket statement about Andrew and make claims against him unless you knew him. Jennifer's boyfriend Gregg was the woman beater. Check his name on ccap. He's been charged twice with domestic abuse. Jenni was one of the victims. She knew when she told her abusive boyfriend about Andrew "weirding out" on her, that Gregg wanted to take him out to kick his ass. Which is a crime in Wisconsin. Jenni should have stopped it, especially being a cop. All THREE were stupid and had a part in the tragedy. Stop being a pig headed idiot Adam and look at the facts.

Fact remains that this was a sheer and utter case of idiots behaving behaving like idiots, and all I see or hear is the typical scapegoating that blames alcohol, guns, and for some godfarsaken reason tattoos. Three individuals, all with issues of accepting responsibility, ended up at the wrong place/wrong time and the perfect storm was unleashed.

1st) Millions of responsible Americans enjoy consuming alcohol in a social setting, the overwhelming majority will never have any sort of violent encounter while doing so.

2nd) Millions of Americans own guns, yet the actual ratio of gun ownership to violence is so astronomical that besides leftist media promoting gun control it is of little to no consequence.

3rd) You had three individuals all break the law in an out-of-control manner that culminated in murder.

Be honest with yourself people, reverse the genders and you have gross sexual imposition by a pervert that would result in another registered sex-offender that you would despise because society says you can. A crime committed by a woman is still a crime, and one committed by a cop should be held to a higher standard.

Please show some respect to the families that are suffering through their loses. Not a single person posting on this blog was at the bar that night. No one really knows what happened. The story has been sensationalized by the media and different eye witness who may or may not have seen the entire situation unfold. Too many assumptions are being made with out the facts. I am sure you have all heard the expression if you assume you make an ass out of you and me. Well, guess what...... People on the otherside of the world are sitting back and watching us do just that.

The bottom line is three lives were lost on Sunday. Please let their families morn in peace. Everyone deserves that respect no matter what their political or religious beliefs are.

Friend of the Luick Family.

Turns out Gregg Peters has beaten up Jennifer Luick before. Then she is at bars with him a year later starting fights with people. Shows you how corrupt and thuggish those police really are. Considering how it takes 8 cops to restrain a shackled man and subsequently taser him multiple times. The boys in blue got their vigilante revenge on him this day.

This system is disgusting.

Ok, man grabs women's butt at bar. Women gets offended. The man who did the butt grabbing tells his girlfriend that a girl got offended when he grabbed her butt. The man and the women tell the women to go outside so they can beat her up. The women shoots both of them. It would be a pretty clear case of self defense, however IF the man who did the butt grabbing is a cop. Then all of a sudden he is a hero and the women is a terrible murderer.

SO EVERYONE KNOWS, BEING PART OF A MOTORCYCLE CLUB HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. IT WAS A ALTERCATION THAT WENT BAD. SO DO NOT PUNISH BIKERS, WE DO ALOT MORE FOR THIS COMMUNITY THAN MOST OF YOU RELIZE. AND SO YOU ALL KNOW......... THEY ARE NOT ""MOTORCYLE GANGS"" THEY ARE """ MOTORCYCLE CLUBS """( MC )..... YOU WOULDNT CALL THE ELKS CLUBS ELK GANGS, OR MOOSE LODGES, MOOSE GANGS. I WONDER IF MR. WIRTH WAS WEARING A MOOSE LODGE JACKET, THEY WOULD BE GETTING AS MUCH ATTENTION AS THE DIOBLO LOBOS ARE. BEING A BIKER HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH UNFORTUNATE INSIDENT.

Its amazing..... You are condeming the death of two people because someone's but was pinched. Does that mean the people in the Twin Tours deserved to die as well? I am sure someone there grabbed someone else's butt, or at one point in time said some kind of raciest comment, or maybe they shoplifted. Does that condem them to death?

I don't think anyones actions that night, should have condemed them to death. You don't carry a gun if you aren't planning on using it at some point. I was taught as a child you don't point a gun at a person unless you are prepared to the pull the trigger and live with the consequences. Wirth made that choice. He had plenty of oppurtunity to walk away. He chose to let his anger control him. He chose to point the gun and pull the trigger. It doesn't matter what else was said or done that night. He could have walked away. He could have left the gun where it belonged at home. It had no business being taken to a bar. I don't believe a single person would say this death was justifible if it was there daughter and son or sister or brother that had been killed.

As a parent, I can't imagine the unsurmountable amount of pain these families are suffering. Please let them morn in peace.

What is a cop doing playing grab ass anyway? Youre still a police officer off duty. She shouldve never grabbed his ass, or let her boyfriend challenge him to a fight "Disturbing the peace" to begin with. Its stupidity all around. The cop acted like a dumb bar slut and got shot. Sucks to be her.

Whatever happened in that bar, one thing is for certain. We have a coward that like most cowards like to shoot off their mouth and cover themselves with signs of insecurity.
Then, when he gets called out, has to pull a gun because of the fact that he cant back up his chicken**** mouth.
So what, some woman grabbed your ass, it doesnt mean you go off and shoot 2 people over it.
That little fairy with the super tough guy tattoo should have just took his beating like a man or negotiated his way out of the deal, but no. Like so many of todays mtv gang oriented retards, he couldnt cash the checks his moth wrote so he killed some strangers for absolutely nothing.

Dear Mr. Pete Kotz,

Please delete the picture of Jenni and her alleged son. This is NOT Jenni's son Colton, it is MY son in a picture with Jenni doing her job....

Did you get permission to post this? I want the picture deleted IMMEDIATELY.

I own 2 bars in Baltimore, unfortunately, the second bar when we purchased it, we inherited, unknowingly, its customers, not the greatest of people. To make a long story short, a 32 year old man was shot and murdered on the dance floor over what I found out later from police, he owed the suspect $100. A mess, 7 years later, may he still R.I.P. and my bar is cleaned up with no more incidents like this, unfortunately when alcohol is involved, stupid and dangerous people just become worse than their normal selves. I want to tell this story to just to let people know this is not an uncommon thing that happens, just be on your best behavior or don't get drunk and stupid when your at a bar.

These types of stories are why I don't go to bars anymore. What a waste. A collection of bad descisions leading to this tragedy, all fueled by alcohol. I hate to use this as a podium for personal views but if marijuana was legal there would be less dui's and less people killed on the roadways. Plus pot mellows out people in general whereas alcohol causes agressive behavior and lack of inhibitions leading to behaviors and actions that one would not normally attempt while sober. If all 3 of them were stoned on grass there probably would have never been any alleged butt pinching and therefore they probably would not have gone outside to fight. I blame it on the alcohol...

This person came to the bar with a loaded weapon. HE WAS LOOKING FOR A FIGHT OR SOME SORT OF TROUBLE. Whether someone pinched his butt or not he was looking for someone to shoot or otherwise he would not have a concealed weapon.Now Gregg Peters and Jenni Luick had every right to be in that bar-listening to the band--NO ONE KNOWS IF HE OR SHE WAS INTOXICATED. This piece of shit never gave our police officer or her boyfriend a chance--before a punch was even thrown this no-good evil scum bag shot them. This person took someones mother, daughter,and sister away from them and same goes for Gregg, he was a father, a son friend etc.Jenni Luick always was kind to everyone, especially when she saw people of this town walkinf their dogs, she would stop and talk to us for a few minutes. She was very friendly. NEITHER ONE DESERVED TO DIE THAT NITE AND IF THIS PERSON DID NOT HAVE A GUN THAT NIGHT-WELL WE WOULD STILL HAVE JENNI AS OUR TON POLICE OFFICER AND GREE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. SO THIS IS JUST ONE PERSONS FAULT ANDREW WIRTH'S.

They both deserved it. They played a game they finally lost at. The woman knew she'd not get into any trouble, even if there was only a fist fight. She's the useless kind of cop who would've yanked out her badge the second she saw she and her boyfriend were losing an brawl. She was a drunk cop on a power trip and she had an azzhat for a boyfriend she used to take up her strongarm tactics.

Andrews apparently may still have had a bad back, and since I'm disabled with a back that gives me pain 265/24/7 and takes only the minutest wrong movement to put me on the ground screaming in pain, I understand if he wasn't about to let anyone start to physically whoop on him.

It's you morons who're screaming for Andrews' blood who are the jerkoffs who need to STFU. You, who thinks their shith don't stink, who think their moral high horses are so much better than anyone elses, you who probably go to church every sunday so you can feel good about the rest of the week that you're drinking, cussing, having affairs, and wishing the death upon persons whom you've not heard testimony from yet.

There's no one who knows what went on outside the door but Andrews and the other two idiots. Those two idiots who are now being defended on this forum by cops with the same type of power trips who are the worst kind of scum there is. You people who are screaming for the blood of someone you haven't heard any kind of information from, are the pathetic losers. You should be ashamed, but I'm sure most of you are too stupid to know what that is.

PS,

Hey, Jamal...were you born a retard or do you just work real hard at pretending to be one?

Also, the whiny little prick of a so-called 'reporter' who wrote this article, should be bitch-slapped into next week for forgetting how to write neutrally and objectively and without showing pathetic signs of an anal fear of tattoos on anyone.

Gregg Peters is a thug who made the mistake of challenging another thug to a fight. If he doesn't approach Andrew Wirth and challenge him to go outside NOTHING HAPPENS.

http://www.wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=87BEC44A5B5C9D57A633711ACC5FBCBB.render6?caseNo=2008CV000366&countyNo=28&cacheId=75A6E6546C3DBCBC201EE2D0755281C8&recordCount=15&offset=2&mode=details&submit=View+Case+Details

Copy and paste this link ---- it shows just one of the many cases against Gregg Peters -- this one was for domestic abuse against (drumroll) Jenni Luick!! He was just as much a thug as Wirth. He just chose the wrong thug to pull the macho act on.

Sandy, I'm sure Jennifer was a great person. But the fact remains that after pinching a strange mans butt, then telling her abusive hot headed boyfriend that Mr Wirth responded poorly to her butt pinching she allowed her abusive, hot headed boyfriend to call him outside for a fight. I'm sorry, but physical altercations is a crime in WI. Jenni being a cop knew that. Nice or not, she screwed up and so did Gregg as well as Andrew Wirth. She knew Gregg's temper. She even filed a restraininig order against him in 2008 for domestic abuse. She was a cop. She should be held to higher standards. Gregg was a macho idiot and she knew it. Yet allowed him to fight a stranger. Killing is not the answer, but I have to say that ALL THREE ARE AT FAULT. It's the reality of the situation. Sad but true!!!

OK, people from both sides of this argument, lets put emotions aside and look at the facts:

Regardless of what a nice person Jennifer was; she did commit a crime. It does not matter if it was mindless, drunken fun…this fact still remains. Most, if not all, college sexual assaults are fueled by alcohol; where do you draw the line? The fact remains; if a man can’t do it…than neither can a woman. She “chose” to be a police officer therefore she “chose” the higher standard that comes with the job. Most, if not ALL, police officers are PROUD of that higher standard. Officers, correct me if I’m wrong.

Greg was not a goodie-tushes kind of guy. He had his run-in’s with the law and Jennifer even filed suit against him one time. He was not the type to back down from a fight or turn the other cheek to avoid one. He was quite the opposite and would engage in fights regardless of how needless the event was.

Now, this idiot psycho biker is sitting at the bar minding his own business. Amazingly enough he actually found a girl who would go on a date with him even though he has a tattoo that says “Nothing To Lose” on his neck. While tending to his date; a girl interrupts him, grabs his ass and starts laughing at him. He yells at her, say’s “I’m on a date here so get the “F _ _ _ out of here” and goes on about his business.

OK, so with that being said, this should have been the end of the story. She being a police officer and a human being should have realized at that point that “maybe the whole grab-ass thing isn’t that cool and maybe not good for a police officer to being doing”. Not to mention that other woman can get very territorial over there men and might want to fight her as well????

But instead, knowing her boyfriends past, she tells him that psycho biker got in her face about the ass-grab and is being weird. Well, now that’s two times Jennifer is messing with bikers guys night. She knows how her boyfriend is going to react… she has seen it 100 times. So, now Greg walks up to biker-on-a-date guy and calls him outside because he wouldn’t let his girlfriend grab his ass. I really can’t believe I just typed that. I know; I feel the same way, this is pretty much high school drama here.

So, if biker boy had gone to a different bar where cops were not running around crabbing asses with there overzealous macho boyfriends; all would have been good.

Of course no one deserved to die over this but like many of the other posts here read. Be an adult and do not invade people’s sexual space. And, like one person posted “if you’re going to call someone outside, you better be ready to finish the job”.

Bottom line:

* Jennifer was a cop and should not have grabbed anyone’s ass or sexual parts.
* Jennifer should have stopped once she got push back from anyone on her butt grabbing.
* Jennifer should have never told her boyfriend because she knew he would fight.
* Jennifer should have never let her BF go outside or escalate this.
* Jennifer should have never gone outside.

And yes….and abortion by biker boy’s mama could have saved them all.

marie heck you are an idiot:

You state they had to protect themselves from this idiot???? Are you stupid?? They called "HIM" outside??? Who was protecting who??

Yes, it was wrong, he should not have shot them. BUT, THEY put THEMSELVES in that SITUATION by CALLING him OUTSIDE.

Had they not grabbed his ass, got in his face and CALLED him outside. Nothing would have EVER happened?

Disclaimer: Biker guy is still an idiot for shooting them. They were also idiots for calling out a biker with "Nothing To Lose" tatoo'd on his neck.

"Disguisted" you are the biggest idiot on here.

You actually brought the twin towers deaths in to this. The newest version of War Craft just came out...go get it, play it and let the big people keep talking. Go on...run along now!

Hope they can try out the new one drug injection when they strap him down.

What a pussy. She pinced by butt. So what. He's lucky to get any attention at all. So far, who even saw this besides this looser. He's going to spend the rest of his life hoping he never drops the soap in the prison shower.

WELL NOW THE UP SIDE FOR JEFERSON, ONE LESS BIKER BOY WANABE,ONE LESS TOUGH GUY BAR FLY AND ONE LESS ASS GRABIN OFF DUTY COP. THE TOWN IS GETTIN SAFER EVERYDAY.

O YEA ONE MORE THING ALL THREE SHOULD HAVE HAD (NOTHING TO LOOSE)TATTOOED ON THEM BECAUSE THATS WHAT ALL 3 HAVE RIGHT NOW NOTHING TO LOOSE.....???????

my only problem with all of this is he need to be jailed at taxpayer expense-execute him along with about 50,000 others in the the penal system

Very sad situation for the family members, community, and shooter.

Asking someone at a bar to "step outside" is a really dumb idea nowadays. Even if that someone looks not like a scary biker, but someone whos only fighting experience is against video game characters, never know what their packing and maybe today was the last straw for them (lost their job and lost their house) and *BLAP*. Concealed carry license holders are permitted to carry in bars in PA not sure about WI. Best for everyone to just let it go in response to someone acting stupid. Have to expect that bars have a % of patrons there with serious issues and are also drunk and just respect everybodys space.

We all agree this is a bad situation for everyone involved, two dead one is going to die in prison if convicted. She was a police officer "Protect and Serve" I feel bad that she was taken from this world and her child has to grow up without a mother, but being a father not a cop I know when to analyze a situation. She was trained to observe obviously alcohol played a role but she knew better she was taught better. Her boyfriend being who he was, he knew you never know who your calling out we all know you never know who is carrying a weapon or who knows what. We need to be smarter and think situations through where did fighting get them, again two dead one going to prison if convicted. The Diablo Lobos can be and may have been not so good people but just because they are affiliated with him does not give anyone the right to tear them down some of them are good people, work hard, like riding, have families and don't kill people. Whens the last time anyone around jefferson county has seen them cause trouble, for me atleast four years ago but that was the same kinda crap someone said lets step outside business was handle and tempers flew, but noone was shot that night. If your going to call some one out be prepared for what might happen now a days you just don't know. For them man that pulled the gun he is the only one that knows what he was thinking was it self defense, did he mean to pull the trigger never the less he did now he has to pay for his actions. For ever action there is a reaction let this be a leason to all of us.

The Guy in handcuffs seemed very dangerous before they taser'ed him *sarcasm* lol I mean come on! Of course anybody would get mad if court doesn't go their way.. They were going after that man like the kids on the lord of the flies movie did when they killed Piggy with the big rock.

Wisconsin self-defense jury instruction:

There is no duty to retreat. However, in determining
whether the defendant reasonably believed the amount
of force used was necessary to prevent or terminate
the interference, you may consider whether the
defendant had the opportunity to retreat with safety,
whether such retreat was feasible, and whether the
defendant knew of the opportunity to retreat.

I don't know if Wirth had a fair chance to retreat, but he had no duty to do so. Wirth may not have wanted to take the chance that he was a faster runner than Peters. If Wirth had stayed in the bar and called 911, I am not sure that they would have helped him because of Luick's involvement.

I worked with this guy here in Allentown, Pa..
he was unstable here. He pulled a gun an a guy just for waking him up. Myself and others knew it was only amatter of time before something like this would happen we are just suprised it took this long.

i knew jennifer she was a good friend of my best buddys mom. she used to live in eagle wi and rent a house on a farm that i worked on as a teenager. she was always a very nice person and SHE DID NOT DESERVE THIS. ANYONE THAT THINKS BECAUSE SHE GRABBED THAT LOSERS ASS THAT SHE DESERVED TO BE SHOT AND KILLED IS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY AND SHOULD BE SHARING A JAIL CELL WITH THE COWARD THAT SHOT HER. BECAUSE OF THAT PIECE OF SH*T HER 11 YEAR OLD SON NO LONGER HAS A MOM. I HOPE HE GETS WHAT HE DESERVES AND THAT IS A BULLET RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES. THIS WHOLE SITUATION MAKES ME SICK AND TO THE PEOPLE THAT THINK IT WAS ALL JEN'S FAULT BECAUSE SHE TOUCHED HIS ASS U DISGUST ME!!! R.I.P. JENNIFER LUICK AND GREGG PETERS

I wish there was a test for common sense (when you buy a gun, there should be someone kind of lifestyle test) for these people before someone gets hurt. This is so much like that weird looking radio producer that got finally caught for murder after 15 years. He was like a huge druggie. Please, if you are into getting so high or intoxicated that you don't know what you are doing, or have some kind of uncontrollable temper, don't own a gun!

Dear Dave Rockman,
The amount of sheer ignorance, moral hypocrisy, and capital letters in your post is outstanding. I wish there was a way to magically make you think logically; instead of the narrow minded, moth attracted to a bright light way you do now. You responded to emotional sensationalism that distorts the facts to fit your own agenda.

Without further embarrassment. I will simply state that no one on this comment section is stating that Jennifer and Gregg should of been shot for grabbing Andrew's bottom. So your threats and rage can have their little nap time for now.

Just because you knew Jennifer doesn't change the fact that she put herself in this position by harassing and taunting a man enough to make him feel threatened. Gregg Peters was a large man with a history of violence, Jennifer Luick was a trained police officer. How do you know that they wouldn't of killed Andrew if he had not shot them? Would that have been ok, because they was jus sum good ole' boys? It is clear that they intended to harm him. Two against one is a bad situation.

Note: The only "Victim" in this story is a child left abandoned by a selfish "Mother" whose actions at the bar this fateful evening, her unwed mother status, and apparent poor taste in men she "dated" (all speaks volumes about the character of this "Police Officer") resulted in three lives shattered by two deaths.

No, I am not nor will I attempt to condone something this asinine, because it is obvious that with the exceptions of (1) being paranoid-schizophrenic and delusional and thus truly insane (2) coming to the realization that You truly are worthless and hence an utter coward and the quintessential poster-child FOR abortion, or (3) being a ruthless, vicious, borderline sociopath with a propensity to kill in cold blood simply because You find the majority of Society cretins undeserving and unappreciative of the truly wonderful thing life is (which would place You in a category with Men the stature of Stalin and Hitler), this act was an unfortunate situation that had a cast of actors including; the "little punk with a gun", the "billy bad-ass bully at the bar" who picks on smaller and weaker people, and the "ditzy blonde single mom who left her kid home to go to the bar" (the fact that this woman was an "honorable member of the law enforcement profession" not only brings light to the truth that cops are not only human, but also usually have far more issues than the mainstream, adds just a bit of ironic humor to this otherwise sad story) this was a sad sad story with some disturbingly humorous elements. But as I wrote in an ealier post, below is not opinion but a factual statement based on a social psyche en masse.

Original Post: 12/09/2009 at 01:48:05 PM

What are the chances that if someone would have pinched her butt, being a police officer, that the individual would have been arrested, convicted of felony gross sexual imposition, and been a registered sex offender for life?

Did her actions merit the response? HELL NO!!! But the fact remains; The Cop was a Criminal (Sex Offender) on this one evening.

Really, this subject was over a long time ago people. The victims are not responsible in any way for their murder. Not in any way.

Considering how Wirth acted in court, chances are very good that someone would have died wrongfully at his hand eventually.

The one good that can possibly be derived from this tragedy is that he was stopped sooner than later. Too bad he won't be executed, which would guarantee that no one else, not even another convict, would be killed by him.

alexa said:
The victims are not responsible in any way for their murder. Not in any way.

The victims MOST definately are responsible. Stupid woman started this, SHAME on her SHE is ULTIMATELY responsible.
Maybe Wirth's attitude is wrong BUT he in no way instigated this matter. Absolutely reckless the way the woman and her boyfriend carried on.
If it had off been a fist fight and Wirth won he would have still been hunted down when she was sober.
Same how some people think THEY are the law, and not just enforce the law.

YESTERDAY WAS SUNDAY, I SPENT MY SUNDAY AFTERNOON AT THE WAKE FOR JENNIFER LUICK. THE OUTPOURING OF LOVE FOR JENNIFER AND HER FAMILY WAS INCDREIBLE IT IS TOO BAD THAT ALL OF YOU ASSHOLES WHO ARE SUPPORTING THIS PIECE OF SHIT ANDREW WIRTH DID NOT GET OFF YOUR FAT ASSES AND SEE ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO RESPECTED JENNIFER LUICK AND HER FAMILY. I HAVE WORKED FOR FIFTEEN YEARS WITH HER MOTHER KAREN LUICK AND MY HEART GOES OUT TO HER. JENNIFER IS IN A BETTER PLACE NOW. MAY SHE REST IN PEACE

To The Falcon, You sound like a hot head just like Gregg Peters and Andrew Wirth. Calling us fat asses and assholes is real mature. If you can't handle the truth, then stay off this site. Simple enough.

All three were to blame, poor judgment all around.

I don't think anybody on here has said Andrew was in the right for killing theses two people. I have read all entries like most of us have,and for the friends of Jenny and Gregg no they did not deserve to die but the matter of the fact is, it was her actions little as it was a butt pinch and then telling Greg about what Andrew said to her because he was Offended but it was her actions that lead to this outcome. Like I said and almost everyone elese has said they did not deserve to be shot but as I have stated for EVERY ACTION THERE IS A REACTION. We just need to take this sad outcome of life as an example either if you are the Macho Man that likes to fight, or the playful Woman having fun, or the Bystander that just happen to be there all must think things through and think of what outcomes may come out because of all of our actions.

This whole story makes me cry for humanity. Is this how far we have come as a civilized nation. These people did NOT deserve to die. Maybe they had a few drinks. Perhaps, this guy was a little annoyed. I can understand being annoyed. Maybe the guy had a rough childhood and we should give him a break. Let him walk the streets. Let's make some more excuses for criminals in general. Let's blame the victims again. Let's blame the President.
I think its time we as Americans start taking responsibility for our decisions and actions. Do we want America to work? Are we happy with the way things are? I think this crime highlights how far America has fallen. This is not the old West anymore. We're approaching 2010. If we're to have a brighter future we need to pull together and work hard. Maybe I'm being emotional, but I love America. When I see Americans killing each other over absolutely nothing, my stomach turns. The whole thing is an absolute tragedy.

It is tragic for all involved. However, you are only hearing one side of the story at this point. If what Wirth is saying is true, was it worth the lives of two people?
Better to have turned the other cheek than to have taken there lives. Anyone can pull a trigger, but to walk a way from a fight takes a bigger person. So before you all go shooting off your mouths, get all the facts.

No matter what this is a tragedy however you look at it. However people are so quick to judge people without looking fully into the complete case. Look back in the history of Law in America and you'll see a trial in Boston in which John Adams Defended the British Navy (the enemy) for killing colonists becasue no matter the sides justice should be equal to figure out the truth. In that trial the soldiers where found not guilty because the colonists provoked the attack. Definently different circumstances here but people on both sides must not forget what this country stands for and what all of us want if we get into some trouble. A Fair trial to determine what actually happened and throwing out all bias and looking at the facts not just emototions!!!

THIS IS FOR CHRISTMASTIME. FIND A JOB, THEN YOU WON'T HAVE ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO WASTE LOOKING UP CRIMINAL RECORDS AND SUPPORTING ASSHOLES LIKE WIRTH.

If she would have left when her friends left, instead of her and her boyfriend going back in the bar to confront Wirth, everybody would be still here.(sworn testimony from her friend) What the hell was she thinking? Did she not think of her son? Her Job? How she SHOULD be conducting herself? And why was she still dating an abuser? She locks up people who do that! I don't think her or Gregg where the brightest bulbs. Wirth is only 24 years old. I feel bad for him. His life is over because two people didn't know when to go go home!

Taken from the daily newspaper:
Blasier said she saw Luick touch Wirth's behind and he seemed to take offense. Blasier said she saw Luick and Wirth talking back and forth, and after the music was over she, Luick and their friends walked outside to leave. As they were walking outside, Blasier said she could hear Luick saying that Wirth had been “a jerk.” At that point, Luick and Peters turned around and went back into the bar while Blasier left with a friend.

Wirth was in court again today. Testimony from witnesses make it sound like self defense against Peters. "The man with the gun told him (Peters) to quit being so stupid," witness Brian Trader said. One of the officers on the stand today testified that Wirth cried when he found out that he shot Jenni and that she died. Sad, sad situation. 3 lives ruined over stupidity and bad tempers.

Don't cops usually frequent "cop bars"? My father was a policeman and they just such a place they went to.

Anyway, it sounds like Peters was a violent guy and you have to wonder why a policewoman would be mixed up with him.

I was beaten by cops in Minneapolis because I looked like someone they were after and did not have my wallet on me for I.D. purposes. Cops can be very forceful and intimidating especially when your in cuffs and they are kicking the crap out of you. Quite personally, had I a gun at that time I am not sure how far I would have gone to protect myself!
Sounds to me like "Ye shall reap what 'ye have sown".

Why did this scum-bag have a weapon on him? None of you Andrew Wirth supporters have an answer for this! You speak of Greg Peters as an abuser, did you personally know him? I admit that I did not personally know Greg Peters, but he did not deserve to be shot--and if Mr. Scum Bag, Andrew Wirth, did not know that Jenni Luick was a police officer, was he that big of a coward that he shot her point blank, into her chest. THIS MAN IS A COWARD--I BET THE DEVIL HIMSELF, DOSEN'T WANT HIM IN HELL-THATS HOW EVIL HE IS!! HE had no right to carry a gun and now because he did-two people are dead. NO GUN--NO DEAD-- PEOPLE IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

I am amazed at how ignorant as a nation we are coming across. No one here has all of the details of the events that lead up to this tragedy, but yet we can all make an unbiased opinion as to who is to blame......... Give me a break.

Andrew Wirth was a walking time bomb. He pulled a gun on a guy for waking him up. How ridiculious!!! You do not carry a gun unless you have some intention of using it at some point. It wouldn't have mattered whether Jenni pinched his butt or spilled a drink on him. He was destined ot prove he was a man that night. It didn't matter who the target was.

One of the earlier posts stated, Jenni was a bad mother because she went out to the bar instead of staying home with her son. As info! Her son was safe with her ex husband. She had every right to go out and relieve stress just like everyone else does. That makes her no less of a mother than anyone else. She didn't go out that night looking for trouble. She had no idea she would encounter a ticking time bomb.

to amazed: Stop living in denial! Had she gone home when her friends went home (like she and Gregg should have) she would not have had to confront the "walking time bomb." But NO, "robo cop" and her loser boyfriend had to egg Wirth on. Remember, WIRTH DID NOT GO AFTER THEM-THEY WENT AFTER HIM!

Amazed - actually, we DO have all of the details of the events leading up to this tragedy.

Sworn testimony from Jennifer's FRIEND WHO WAS THERE says that AFTER Jennifer inappropriately touched Wirth's butt, Wirth had words with her. That's right. Words. And it could have ended at that, with Wirth going back to minding his own business and Jennifer and Gregg leaving the bar, but no.

Jennifer had to tell Gregg that Wirth was being a jerk (yeah, right, HE was the jerk?? Who pinched who's ass!)
and even though Jennifer and Gregg were actually leaving the bar, it was GREGG who decided to go back and confront Wirth. And Gregg decided to invite Wirth outside.

So, obviously, Gregg was looking for a fight, and Wirth ended it.

If Darby's account of the events is correct, then I'm buying the self-defense angle. Peters was a very large, muscular and intoxicated man announcing to Wirth that he was going to violently assault him. What should Wirth have done, take the beating and hope it stopped before there was mortal damage? Nonsense.

If those details are true, Peters got what was coming to a violent thug woman beater such as he.

Ok, Christopher, I can buy the self defense approach as well. However, where is the explanation of why he shot Jennifer? Was she being aggressive too? If it was simple self defense, then Wirth would have no need to kill any people that were just standing by. He would only need to shoot his attacker(s). If it were as simple as him being a "ticking time bomb" then he very well could have shot both of them simply out of being a "thug." I still don't think we have all of the facts just because a couple of eyewitnesses have corroborated a story.

A couple things. First is, I have only seen one person reference the fact that his neck tattoo appears to actually say "Nothing to Lost." If I am reading that right - what kind of illiterate moron lets someone mispell something they are permanently marking their body with? Secondly, sure, the cop probably didn't show the decorum befitting of or expected of law enforcement, but it sounds like it was innocent joking. He could just as easily have taken it as a compliment, especially if he fancies himself some badass gangster stud. Why are you even packing heat to go have a beer at the local pub, is a rival gang after you or something? Who would take it seriously enough to kill two people over it? If anything, I would have found it cute a woman was doing that. She was with a guy, so it's not like she was threatening to his woman. The girlfriend is the only one who should have been moderately annoyed.

What is his exuse, that he was defending her honor? maybe this guy having steroid rage or something. It never ceases to amaze me how willing people willing are to go to prison over such stupid confrontations. That's why the rest of society has to be protected from this type of senseless violence, as will as that degree of outright stupidity and impulsiveness.

Lastly, as for his "brother from Miltown, this is the second time this week I saw an acquaintance of a defendent written about here saying "Only god can judge." I love it that people suddenly get religious when their homie is gonna go to prison. It's hard for me to relate to standing behind any friend who kills 2 strangers in cold blood, though. I don't know how you rationalize that. I think I would be like, "Do the crim/do the time, pay your dues, buddy."

...pardon all my typos & mispellings! Need to review better before I click "post."

Oh my god, I just watched the video of him making an ass of himself in court. Who did he think he was lunging at? So melodramatic. He looks like a 10 year old child with ADD during a standardized test or something. Tasered like the little bitch he is. I have a theory that a lot of people in gangs take the fast track to prison deliberately. Crime is so organized between the streets and our prisons, it's the only thing that seems to explain someone brazenly committing crimes they obviously know they are going to be caught and convicted for. Otherwise, could anyone honestly be THAT stupid?

I can't believe people here are over-analyzing whether they "deserved" what they got or any double-standard about sexual harassment! They are dead! There will be no sexual harassment charges filed, and it's a moot point, because there is zero defense for killing both the supposed aggressor AND his nonviolent girlfriend. WTF? You can't even say this was at all in self-defense. When a tough guy asks another tough guy if he wants to step outside, he's not challenging him to a fucking dual! He means let's roll up our sleeves and throw a couple punches until one of us gets a bloody nose and gives up. For god's sake, there's no issue whatsoever about what the victims were doing wrong.

The woman was a bloody idiot to pinch a stranger's butt. But give her that. But then to involve her so-called boy friend who asked the guy to take it outside. When in Australia or Finland (no longer in Denmark, because even in small little Denmark, people do (OR DID) carry a weapon to defend themselves. So a gun or a knife. The Foreigner Minister in Sweden, Anne Lindth was stabbed by a crazed Serbian in Stockholm. So it is NOT surprising that the guy was carrying a weapon, be it a gun, knife, mace if a woman. Noone has said whether the lady police officer was carrying a weapon and whether she attempt to pull it on the guy to protect her so-called boy friend, who was a Blood Idiot to ask the guy to step outside. Have the fight inside the bar, and pay for the damages. To save a few bucks, or to be able to fight outside, the guy made a very very bad gamble, and paid with his life. In Iraq, Afghanistan, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, and even now in Washington, officers die in the line of duty all the time. This officer may have been a good Mum, bust as an officer of the LAW, which she is being paid to UP HOLD, she is, I am sad to say, a disgrace. I hope the young child's grandparents tell the child the truth. You Mum contributed to not only her own demise, but hat of her so-called boy friend, and also the poor guy who was asked to step outside by the boy friend of the local police officer. If they guy had hit the officer's boyfriend, and was winning the fight, what do you think would have happened to him. Probably be arrested for assault. Would be interesting to know how many unsuspecting patrons have been arrested. Not saying that any were. But sounds like a pretty good scam and way for the small little town to make some money or get some guys for the chain gang. And we thought such procedures only happened in the Deep South and in Arizona, where the the local Sheriff has BLOOD on his hands. And the blood is that of a Mum, who was left to die and given her insulin. So do we feel sorry for Corrupt American police officers in Europe or in Australia. Absolutely. They give police officers in the whole world a bad name. The department should have fired her if they were aware of such behavior. They are partly responsible, as is the bar for not checking everyone for weapons on entry, like they now do in many European and Australian cities. What the heck, even some schools in the States have metal/weapon detectors. Not your local hangouts?

Blood on Sheriff Arpaio's Hands!! What should be done with him? He and his deputies and the nurses all DESERVE the Death Penalty, which we do not have in the EU and Australia. But what the sheriff, his deputies and nurses did is something that NOT EVEN the NAZI's would have done. They are PURE EVIL!! Absolute PURE EVIL, Sheriff Apario and his GANG of Deputies. Clean up your Corrupt Police Departments.

Forty-six-year-old Deborah Braillard passed away January 25th, 2005, after being arrested for alleged probation violations. In 2003, she had been placed on three years probation after being convicted of drug offenses and credit-card violations. When she was booked into jail on January 2nd, Deborah and her family were concerned for her safety. Because she was a diabetic, she required frequent insulin injections. However, because of her prior conviction and jail stay, jail medical personnel knew about her condition. Nurses were present in her cell on January 3rd and on the 4th, but they did not examine her or administer insulin.

On January 5th, a security report notes that Braillard had begun "kicking… groaning (and) yelling." She was moved to another room where her wails wouldn't disturb officers and awaken other inmates. A few hours later, a nurse entered the pod, but again, did not treat Braillard or give her an insulin injection. As soon as the switchboard opened at seven a.m., Jennifer Braillard, Deborah's daughter, called and notified officials that her mother was diabetic, and she told them what kind of insulin her mother needed.

Hours later, Braillard fell into a diabetic coma. On January 5th, she entered the hospital, where she drifted in and out of consciousness, where she passed away in the hospital on January 23rd. If jailers would have bothered to look at Braillard's records, they would have noticed that during an earlier incarceration, she was given insulin every day.

In Australia the Sheriff Arpaio, his deputies and the nurses would all have been indicted, convicted and served long prison sentences. And they would never be allowed to work in the public sector. And in the States, they are ALL STILL on the JOB. So we understand why so-called INNOCENT American citizens need to carry weapons. It is to protect them from Corrupt Cops, Cop impersonators, and even the FBI. What the FBI did at Waco Texas was a massacre. And when it was covered up, whitewashed, ... Then it took a decorated Gulf 1 Veteran who saw similar atrocities on the ground in Iraq, to recognize JUST what had happened. And now in Gulf 2, finally they are prosecuting corrupt and crazed police officers. A gang of them raped a young 13 year old girl, yes 13 years old. Then to cover their crime, they murdered her sister and parents, killed her, and burned them all. Fortunately for the young girl, her brothers were not there. When they found out what they did, what do you think they did!! Unfortunately the soldiers who they took their revenge on were NOT those who were the criminals. So we lost soldiers in Iraq due to unpunished crimes by our own soldiers. Australia also has soldiers in Iraq. Certainly the crimes by this officer, were not as bad, but abuse of power by any soldier and/or officer of the law brings society down. How do you know that this guy had not previous bad experiences. This time he was going to be prepared. So next time you think to play a joke on somebody, be careful. You do not know if he/she is a ticking time bomb. As were and are many of OUR SOLDIERS in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and now in many American Cities and State. Especially in Washington State where four officers were shot down in a restaurant, and again, not the ones who supposedly committed the crimes, for which retribution was made.

Stupid whore and her meathead boyfriend got what they deserved. They could have left well enough alone, but no, she had to go get her alpha male boyfriend involved. Real tough guy. She was a lousy cop and this was self defense against two drunk confrontational people if you ask me.

Like what happened in Columbine after the mobbing of students went unatteded to. Same at Virgina Tech, in Afghanistan, Waco Texas, in Vietnam and in Iraq. When abuses by the authorities go unpunished, ... The worst case is the abuses which continue to go on in Arizona. The murder of the woman by the Sheriff, his deputies and the nurses is a CRIME Against Man/Womankind. If you cannot try him in the States under either a Federal or State crime, then the daughter should appeal to Hague for Crimes Against Womenkind by Sheriff Arpaio and his Gang of Corrupt Deputies and even nurses. And we THOUGHT the Nazis were bad. Appears the Sheriff in Arizona is EVEN worse. There were no reported cases of refusing insulin to Mums in Germany. What a sick way to kill someone. She was screaming for her life and having an insulin induced fit, and the officers throw in another cell while she is dying. Some sick MF in the law enforcement agencies in your country. And you wonder why your civilians carry weapons. They would be bloody stupid NOT TO!!

You fool! What was he "defending himself against by shooting a woman who wasn't in the midst of attacking him?! You clearly don't understand the concept of self-defense. People want to be so purist about "sexual harassment" because the have some macho chip on their shoulder about how they can't get away with being sexist 24-7 and grabbing a woman's ass, but get over it and be real. There's no comparison between a woman, who in most cases does not pose a threat, doing something like she did as a lark and a guy, who can actually physically prey on a woman and physically overtake her. You can split hairs about it all day long, and it still won't justify murder. She wasn't assaulting him, and wasn't even touching him when he shot her. If you want to be totally equitable, I will play devil's advocate and say Wirth could have handled it like a civilized adult, called the police and reported her. She might have actually ended up losing her job or put on some sort of probation and he could have felt vindicated.

I swear, sometimes I wish America could section off a small penal colony for dangerous-thinkers like Jim so they could be monitored, and leave the rest to all the sane ones among us who know better than to think people should die for being pranksters. Can anyone really be that ingnorant of a sense of right vs. wrong, and what are equivalent repercussions to bad judgment? All the ass-backwards rednecks, uneducated trailer trash and wannabe gangster kids, I wish they would disappear.

And if we all remember correctly, the USA Constitution says everyone has a RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. And if I remember correctly, one of your most famous actors, Charleston Heston, defends the right to do so. If corrupt cops and criminals can and do carry them, why not the Average Joe who just stopped at the local watering hole after a long hard days work in the Oil and Gas Fields, like they do in Australia. And no such problems like this one. But then Aussie policewomen keep their hands to themselves. And their blokes certainly would not ask a Mate to step outside because his "so-called" lady friend was doing what this one was doing. Leave the poor guy along and let him drink his beer. How do you know if he was having a bad day or not. He was a shot fuse, and the fuse was light twice, once by the lady and the second time outside. Since none of you were outside, how can you judge whether it was self defense or not. Anyone who fears for his life and limb has a right to defend himself. And if the police officers shoot guys who are running from them, who do not threaten their life or limb, then I think this guy had justification to defend themselves. And as I have recently LEARNED POLICE ONLY LEARN TO SHOOT TO KILL. So this guy was trained like the American Military and the Police, not to maim or stop, but to KILL. Maybe the Police Departments should change their policies also. When the video of a Gulf Veteran being shot by a police officer who had asked him to get up showed on the Internet, we were all very very surprised. What are the credentials to become a police officer or soldier in the States. Is there any? Any psych exam? If so, the scores allowed to be an officer and/or soldier must be pretty low. And they should by psych tested every 6 months to both help them, and to weed out the bad ones. Hopefully something good comes out of this tragedy. Psych testing for all officers and weapons checks at the entrance to the bar. Leave your weapons, guns, knives, ... the doorman!! like they do their rucksacks, backpacks here in Australia and in Europe!! It still is the Wild West, were when you step outside you have it out with either guns, knives, steel bars, brass knuckles, ... Amazing. Really amazing!!

J, You are an idiot and obviously not armed with all of the facts. It came out in court yesterday (testimony from the officer who arrested Wirth) that Wirth didn't know he shot Jenni. He even cried when he found out that she was shot. He thought he shot meat headed, angry Peters in self defense. Jenni was in the cross fire is all. Wirth only had words with Jenni after she pinched his behind (which is a form of sexual assault). She's the one that had to tell her angry abusive boyfriend that Wirth upset her. Sorry, stupid boyfriend got her killed by calling Wirth outside. And stupid Jenni should have known better than that. She was a cop for God's Sake. And she knew Peter's temper. He was charged with domestic abuse against her last year. I feel bad that Wirth had to be harrassed by both of these drunk idiots to the point of self defense.

Darby said: "But, you have to rewind the tape to the beginning, not just to the part that suits you.

The story ends in gunfire, which of course is not justified. I certainly don't think it was the right ending. But, Andrew didn't set the events in motion.

endquote

Actually, you are wrong. To use your own example against you, he set the events in motion............by bringing the gun.

Rich, what you said doesn't make sense. You said that Wirth "set the events in motion by bringing a gun"? When I hear the words "set in motion" that means what STARTED the situation. Ummmmmmm.....didn't Jennifer start the events by bothering Wirth, then telling her hot headed boyfriend about it? Yep, those are the facts. So who "set the events in motion"? Jennifer and Gregg.

Man this is sad all the way around. Everyone involved mad bad choices. Woman shouldnt have been pinching asses especially if she is a cop. Boyfriend should have let it go that Wirth was pissed off. Wirth is a piece of shit for carrying a loaded firearm to a bar and killing two people. They were acting like idiots but didnt deserve to die. Hopefully Wirth goes away for life, looks like a piece of shit anyway.

Christmastime,

Ok we get it already! Greg had a rap sheet! Get over it! It still does not give this creep the excuse to kill two people! He was the idiot who had a gun......IN A BAR! Who in the hell does that unless they are looking for a fight?!?! And he was on a DATE. Again, who in the hell takes a gun on a date? Unless of course this ticking time bomb was planning on using it against his date if she refused him. Of course, I'm only speculating on that one, but it doesn't seem to far of a stretch for this idiot.

And to all of those people who say there aren't any comments where people are "defending" Andrew Wirth.......can you not read? Or am I just the only one who has those comments on my screen? "The bitch deserved what she got" "if they hadn't have called him outside" "if they has just left". Those are all people who are defending this piece of trash.

Also, to the person who said she should have stayed at home with her son and commented on her "unwed" mother status. For one, my daughter is my number one priority, but that does not mean I am not entitled to go out and have some fun with friends every once in awhile. It makes me no less of a mother. For two, who cares if she was an unwed mother. Does it even mention where this boys father is? Or if they were married? No, so that is a complete male sexist comment. You probably think all women should stay in the house unless they are going grocery shopping.

There were horrible mistakes made by everyone, but that still doesn't make what this idiot did justifiable. Andrew supporters are saying "if she hadn't" "if greg hadn't", well what if Andrew had stayed in the bar? What if Andrew didn't have a gun? What if Andrew hadn't brought a damn gun to a freakin fist fight? He is the one who caused the deaths, not Jennifer and Greg. Andrew was the only one with a gun and he chose to pull the trigger, no one held a gun up to his head and forced him to do it.

Lets play jury for just today..the first 12 votes count..So each one take a shot and vote - GUILTY or NOT GUILTY.

NOT Guilty!

Who was driving the drunk cop home? Her drunken boyfriend? Their friends already left!!! Cops who don't live by the rules they enforce, make me sick!

Woodman says - Not Guilty

Thatz 1 for Not Guilty

Not Guilty - Self Defense

My vote is guilty of reckless manslaughter.

Wirth did bring and use a gun, but he didn't bring it with the intention of killing anybody that night AND the gun would have been tucked away had Gregg not escalated and invited the incident.

Just my opinion!

He is so GUILTY, and the real judge and jury are going to sentence him to at least 25 years. He's going to prison. He only improved his chances of that by his court room freak-out.

Christmastime, your last post seriously made me laugh out loud. Aww, the poor little baby cried? He must really have a shred of empathy left. Based on his ironclad honesty, I guess we just have to take his word for it that he "accidentally" shot the woman too while he was opening fire near a crowded building. He just happened to catch the one person in the crossfire he was mad at. It's already confirmed that she was not the only one outside when the fight ensued.

Oh, that's right, he "didn't think he shot him enough to kill him," right? How many times does a moron like him think someone needs to be shot before they are dead? I'm pretty sure he was crying because he is nuts. Look at him reacting like a rat in a cage in court. Those are the same emotions I imagine when a guy like that cries. Utter frustration with his own stupidity. Not empathy. Incidentally, you must have repeated all of those facts of the case at least 3 times here already, as if I didn't read them in the news coverage, genius.

"He thought he shot...Peters in self defense."

Yes, he would be the only person ignorant enough to buy this as self-defense against someone who challenged him to a fistfight that he accepted. He went outside and felt like a big man because he was the only one who knew he was concealing a gun. Then he impulsively shot two people who were not physically threatening his life in cold bold. End of story.

I say NOT GUILTY of murder in any degree. I would agree with Darby that manslaughter is a much better ruling.

Manslaughter makes sense when someone accidentally sideswipes another with your car, or there is some negligence that leads to death. Not when you deliberately aim a gun at people and open fire on them. It is so retarded that people think that way.

So the count as of now is:

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty

So that takes the score to

Not Guilty - 3
Guilty - 2

J, You're not a very smart person are you? Sorry for that. It was self defense, plain and simple. Did you ever hear of beating someone to death? How did Wirth know that Gregg wasn't going to beat him to death? I'm sure Wirth felt threatened at some point. For God's sake Wirth asked Gregg to stop. But when Gregg didn't, Wirth had to protect himself. And Wirth did shoot Jennifer on accident. Even the arresting officer said he believed Wirth was truly surprised that she got shot. You say that you have been reading the news articles. Doesn't seem like it. I hope Wirth has a good attorney!!! Self Defense baby!

Not Guilty

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty

So that takes the score to

Not Guilty - 4
Guilty - 2

Not guilty. I feel sorry for the kid! Just out on a date and some asshole has to start a fight. They should have went home. And I agree with "brenden"---would that wonderful cop be driving under the influence or allowing her boyfriend to do the same. I don't think too many people like cops because they think they are so self rightous...a title they earned. There are so many corrupt cops out there!

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty

So that takes the score to

Not Guilty - 4
Guilty - 2

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty
slynky - Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty

So that takes the score to

Not Guilty - 5
Guilty - 2

Fair chance of Andrew walking free atleast in this forum

Ranji,
What is your vote?

I am playin judge for now :-) so my vote dont count...Jokes apart..I m waiting for the 12th vote and I obviously gonna express my vote

Pete Kotz said:

Cool idea, Ranji. Thanks for doing it.

Pete - so whats your vote?

Ranji, before we make any more votes, I would like to know what the "TCR charges" are. For example, how many charges are against him and are they murder of jenni, murder of gregg, and illegal posession of a firearm or are they manslaughter charges? We need to fully understand the charges before we can vote. I'm not trying to be technical, but some people may be voting on different options and your results may be skewed.

1)she grabs his but he tells her to stop 2)She does it agian and he tells her agian in not so nice words. 3)Here and greg leave with another couple and walk out side and she tells greg what happen with andrew but not what started it. 4)He goes back into the bar and tells him to step out side. 5)Him and andrew get into aruging and wrestling out side and andrew told him to stop **** around 2 times by witnesses out side. 6)He shoots 3 bullets into greg as they fought to the ground.One bullet goes thru greg and hits her.He never pointed or ment to shoot her at all and never knew he did till that morning.7)The police officer that pulled him over said he told me where the gun was and also he was on his way to turn himself in.Also that he hoped THE MAN HE SHOT WAS OK THAT HE TOLD HIM TO STOP. What i'm trying to say is if it weren't for her hot headed boyfrind andrew wouldn't be were he is and they would both still be here also.Andrew pulled the trigger in self defense but the truth is if anyone took jenifers life that morning it was greg they were outside and should have just left.Those are the facts trust me I know.I was there tues.

Concerned Citizen,

At the moment the charges against Wirth are two counts of 1st Degree Intentional Homicide.

Then my decision stands....Not Guilty.

NOT GULITY

Pete Kotz said:

I'm kind of a hard-ass about these things, Ranji. So I'm voting for second-degree murder. Wasn't premeditated, but he willingly went outside, severely violated Northern Man Law by pulling a gun in a bar fight, then didn't just kill the guy he was supposed to fight, but shot a woman too.

I agree with the other readers that a lot of stupidness led up to this. But he's the one who raised all that stupidness to murder. So I'm voting guilty on the violations of Man Law alone. The two dead people have already overpaid for their sins.

pLEASE EVERYBODY READ WHAT I WROTE KNOW THE FACTS THE TRUE FACTS AND ALSO KNOW THE JUDGE ALSO TOLD THE PROSICUTER AT THE END "SHE HAD 30 DAYS TO RETHINK THE CHARGES BROUGHT AGIANST MR WORTH"

Concerned Citizen, Your point is valid but I am looking at it as a vote which comes in after reading through almost 14 days after this thread started.

Initial report for some find Andrew responsible, updated versions from witnesses depict otherwise and so on.

As you mentioned, if we go too technical as to the counts of murder and so on I am sure half of them dont even know where to place it. Atleast I dont.

Let's get a fair idea to get this discussion a step further

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty
slynky - Not Guilty
Pretty boy- Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty
Pete Kotz - Guilty - Second Degree murder

So that takes the score to

Not Guilty - 6
Guilty - 3

NOT GUILTY!!

Self defense? Are you kidding me?! She pinched his butt, so he needs a gun to defend himself? Or is it because the boyfriend confronted him? Either way, theres a thing called don't go outside when he asked do you wanna step outside if your not wanting a confrontation. Either way, theres a thing called FIST fighting. A gun was not needed in this case. No one should have been shot in this case. From his own confession he didnt even mean to kill him, SO WHY SHOOT A GUN AT THEM?!

I find it a little outrageous that her boyfriend would go confront a guy for giving her a look. He may have been in the wrong for wanting to fight about it, but he didnt deserve to die.

My vote pete- GUILTY AS HELL!

Guilty. No matter what lead up to the shooting, he still killed two people and he should serve his time. I would believe the self-defense crap if greg also had a gun and he pulled it on andrew. But andrew was the only one with the gun. If he believed his life was in that much danger, he should have stayed in the bar or just left and went home.

But hey, that's only my opinion.

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty
slynky - Not Guilty
Pretty boy- Not Guilty
Anonymous - Not Guilty (pending jury perm to accept this vote) :-)

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty
Pete Kotz - Guilty - Second Degree murder

So the final verdict

Not Guilty - 7
Guilty - 3

As of now if taken the last vote into consideration - it's

NOT GUILTY - Andrew walks free!!!

If we dont take the last vote into consideration as it is anonymous -

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty
slynky - Not Guilty
Pretty boy- Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty
Pete Kotz - Guilty - Second Degree murder
Gina - Guilty
Marie Heck - Guilty

Not Guilty - 6
Guilty - 5

I dont want to drag this any further - the next post with a name and vote we shall call this case CLOSED!!

As unfortunate that this event is, I can't belive it happened in Jefferson. I have on occasions at the bars met Andrew and he seemed like a genuine guy not capable of anything like this. Alcohol like said before either brings out the worst in you or the best in you and this is defintly the worst. Murder is murder and nothing can change that, it doesn't matter if she was a cop or what her story is, she was murdered and her killer should go to jail, but I think he feels regret and wishes he could take it back. My throat is still in my stomach after seeing him on trial for this. How sad.

So Nell is it guilty or not guilty?

Guilty as sin. He was the idiot who had a gun and pulled it on 2 defenseless people. Rot in prison.

Undecided. Like I said, murder is murder, but I don't think he should get 1st degree murder for being a drunked idiot.. Not guilty on 1st degree murder but defintly guilty for killing them... Did they say any of their blood alcohol levels?

so we're tied? Hope the jury isnt lol.

GUILTY!!!!

Woodman - Not Guilty
Christmastime - Not Guilty - Self Defense
Concerned Citizen - Not Guilty
Brenden - Not Guilty
slynky - Not Guilty
Pretty boy- Not Guilty

Darby - Guilty - Reckless manslaughter
J - Guilty
Pete Kotz - Guilty - Second Degree murder
Gina - Guilty
Marie Heck - Guilty
Bobby - Guilty
Ranji - Guilty

Not Guilty - 6
Guilty - 7

Well since we had tied, and I have been posting results like a lame ass :-) Had to bring an end to this... I think its time I expressed my opinion.

I understand most of you are gonna bay for my blood but my vote goes as GUILTY, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I have mine too, yes agreed the last update we got in this case from the witness is that Andrew was reluctant for a fight but still went out, gave and took his share but in the end could not hold his anger back and fired.

Correct me if i am wrong, a gun is made to wound/immobilize and finally kill. Andrew opted for the latter. No matter how piss drunk you are, back of your mind tells you this is "NOT YOUR BEST FRIEND". Yet he used it.

I am not justifying either Jenni's or Peters actions, but if we do not convict Andrew we are gonna set a bad precedent for the next gun crimes waiting to happen

Now tell me, for all those people who think he is not guilty, are you guys suggesting he should not do time at all, If so, what is the punishment you think Andrew deserves!

Not guilty

Ranji,

You are truely sick yourself. 2 people were shot and killed point blank. He is responsible for his actions. Andrew went to a bar with a gun and shot and killed 2 people. If he was afraid for his life (self defense) then he should have ran back into the bar and called the cops, not pulled out a gun and shoot them. They didnt have a gun. It truely doesnt matter how everything went down that night, Gregg and Jenni did not deserve to be shot dead. Can you stop to think how you feel if one of your family members was shot for pinching someones butt in a bar? Would you want the shooter to go free? Probably everyone on here doesnt even know anyone involved. I knew Gregg and Jenni, and my heart breaks for thier family. I am also a Lawyer and Andrew will go to prison for a long time.

Lets rest the fact that Jenni and Peter were cops, I am sure this crime would have gained the same attention even if they were not cops.

(with the cop scenario in mind) Lets leave the thoughts as to what would have happened if Jenny cried foul and Peters shot him, they could not have coz they werent carrying guns. Yes, maybe they would have accused him of a lot of violations but not killed him though ( this is debatable)

Guys who voted NOT GUILTY, I understand you are no way related to this but are yet concerned about this young guy's future because he is going to be in jail for a long time. On the other hand, think about what he has snatched from their parents, friends, and finally their son.

So Sad, if you did read properly - I stand for GUILTY

Im sorry, I got you confused with someone else.
I just cant believe people are ranting and raving about someone they dont even know. Its very heartbreaking to see someone call Jenni a whore. What is that? Two human beings were shot and killed over something so pety. There were over 1000 people at Jenni's wake and hundreds at the burial. It was very very sad. Many people were effected by this tragity. Even Andrews family.

Ranji,

Yea I don't think so sad read your post! I agree with what you have said. Yes, jennifer and greg shouldn't have done what they did, but why does that justify what this guy did? If he thought his life was in so much danger as to pull a gun on not just one but TWO defensless people, he should have stayed in the bar and called the cops, or just let it go and leave.

Now some of you might say, well she was a cop, she could have lied and he would have been charged with something stupid. That may be true, but we will never know. Why? Because this idiot thought he was billy bad ass or something and shot two people in cold blood. He had the weapon, they didn't. He pulled the trigger, they didn't. If he wouldn't have pulled the trigger, he wouldn't be in this mess.

Try to justify this as you will, but he is guilty and should, no NEEDS to serve his time. I don't care if he cried when he found out jennifer was dead. That's one split second of emotion. What about her family and greg's family? How many days and nights will they cry?

I agree 100% with Marie Heck.
I have cried many days and Im sure there will be many more. Anyone who has a heart...please pray for all families involved.

Ranji, the reason that I asked what the charge was is because of this: I have always understood that murder basicially implies intent. I feel that intent can be argued here because yes, he brought a gun to a bar (I understand it is illegal), but there isn't much proof that he had the intent to use it on Jenni and Gregg. I don't feel he should be charged with first degree murder. I do, however, feel that he should be charged with something. Manslaughter, illegal possession of a firearm, something. It is highly likely that he will either plea bargain and be brought down to manslaughter or that he will be charged with murder and plea not guilty so that he can fight the full charge of murder in the first.

So Sad, I'm not sure what kind of lawyer you are, but I imagine that you do not practice criminal law since you can only say that he is going away for a long time. We have seen murderers get out of prison after only a few years of doing time. We can probably all agree that this wasn't premeditated. Therefore, he will likely not receive the harsh sentence you imply.

to "So Sad". I can't stress enough that Jenn & Gregg should have went home and not started a fight by going back into the bar. They would still be alive today if they hadn't. What part of that don't you get??? Yes, they should not have been killed, but come on, the families of Gregg and Jenn have to take responsibility here and they have to see how their loved ones brougt this on themselves. They asked for the fight not Wirth!!!! Quit blaming everyone else!

The scariest thing is some of you ignorant people will be jurors someday. The reason he is being charged with 1st is that there was never an actual fight and Wirth essentially fired on them prior to being acosted, since he was not under threat his firing on both persons intentionally to due bodily harm becomes the "felony" or "Special circumstance", using firearm (lethal force)is what allows it to be elevated. Had he stabbed them and ran it would be 2nd. It was Worth's "intent" to fire on them before they got outside, thus premeditated. No matter what this douche won't see freedom ever again, just that neck tat alone will get him the max even at 2nd and he can forget about parole.

There was no actual fight people. He just shot them, the idea of a fight was his justification (which won't work), but there was no actual fight. It's not a duel if shoot the guy in the back.

jakester, have you read the papers, watched the news?!!! Sworn tesimony says there was fight and Wirth told Peters to "not be stupid and Wirth didn't want to fight.

Thank You Jakester!!!!

Concerned Citizen, as a matter of fact I put away Murderers. He will go to jail for a long time. Im not going to go into all the lawful reasons. Just watch the trail and you will see.

Woodman, Im not blaming everyone else. Just have some freaking compassion to the loved ones left behind. You will have your opinion and I will have mine.

Ranji, you asked us that voted not guilty to state what we think Andrew's sentence should be. I really do believe that this is a case of self defense. That being said, I think the DA should charge Wirth with 2nd Degree Reckless Homicide (Class D Felony) rather than 1st Degree Intentional Homicide (Class A Felony). Wirth was reckless with his gun and his actions but did not intentionaly try to kill Luick and Peters. A Class D Felony in Wisconsin calls for up to 25 years in prison. I think Wirth should serve 5-10.

Jakester, I agree with Woodman. Have you not been following this case? If not, you shouldn't be commenting. There may not have been punches thrown (who knows), but the witnesses said that Wirth and Peters were entangled with each other. Wirth pleaded with Peters to "stop being so f-ing stupid". So it wasn't just the three of them going out to "talk about things". There was a fight. And if you weren't there in the parking lot then you don't know what the extent of the FIGHT was.

Christmastime - ditto!!

(To both my punishment phase sentencing AND to your comments to Jakester - geebus, BOTH JENNIFER AND GREG'S FRIENDS HAVE TESTIFIED THAT GREGG INVITED WIRTH OUTSIDE AND THAT A FIGHT STARTED!!)

Andrew may have "pleaded" with greg, but he also stated that he didn't think he shot the guy enough times to kill him. How many times did he think it would take?

No offense, but you people who are defending his actions are demented. How can you sit there and justify what he did? I have stated several times before, yes jennifer and greg made stupid mistakes. You all have said that as well. But yet, it was ok for him to take two lives? Are we even on the same planet anymore?!

Jennifer and greg, no matter what happened at the bar, paid dearly for their actions. Why shouldn't andrew?

Marie Heck,
Does it make you feel better about yourself to call us "demented" for expressing our God given right to our opinions?

i was there when both gregg and jenni got shot. and i also have met wirth weeks b4. i've never met gregg or jenni. im not here to do the blame game but this is what i would say to each of them......
1. i believe carrying a gun in jefferson is stupid and not needed.
2. jenni, being a cop and yes (off duty) she should of been more professional. when you were leaving you should of just left. just leave walk away and get over the fact that he called you a bitch. you should of not pinched people in the first place.
3. gregg, finding out wirth called jenni a bitch ya like any boyfriend who has been drinking for hours of course your gonna defend your girlfriend. asking to take it outside understandable.
4. wirth, carring a gun to rock bottom is plain stupid! and also like know one else knows getting in a bar fight previously that night at a different bar and then getting kicked out of there...(throwing an older man up against the wall by his neck cuz he shook your hand to tight.) man you just plain crazy and where on a rampage from the start. according to the jefferson daily union you are trained in Martial arts. so what would make you think pulling a gun and placing it to a guys head would be a right choice. you would think someone trained with those techniques would chose 2 fight. and a man of your size id hardly think u would be threatend. if you think that pulling a gun would impress anyone Not in this town. OR you biker club "Diablo Lobos" their not about that either.

I do believe he should be charged with 2 accounts of intentinal homicide. no one told him to carry a gun or to shoot it and that is the consiquence. but i also do believe it could of well been avoided if jenni would of never grabbed a complete strangers butt and if they would of just left with there friends instead of turning back around and comming in the bar to start a conflict.

Christmastime, you have to be kidding here.

"Wirth was reckless with his gun and his actions but did not intentionaly try to kill Luick and Peters."

So, you're taking it on this scumbag's word since he claims he didn't think he shot Peters enought times to kill him that it was unintentional? He was just trying to maim him?!

Unless you're a great shot and you aim for someone's thigh, when you shoot a person, you expect a high likelihood that they DIE as a result of it. If you get shot anywhere in the torso, the chances of you dying from the complications around that are so high. Some people by a stroke of luck have the bullet miss all the major organs and pass through them, but it's a fluke when that happens. I think it also depends on the caliber, but get real! if it's true that he only aimed at Peters and Luick was caught in the crossfire (which I haven't seen much good reporting to corroborate), he should be sentenced on at least one first-degree murder

COUNT 1 MAN SLAUTER FOR KILLING PETERS WITH ENHANCER POSSESION OF A FIREARM WHILE INTOXICATED,COUNT 2 HOMICIDE BY RECKLESS USE OF A FIREARM WTH ENHANCER WITH ENHANCER POSSESION OF FIRE ARM WHILE INTOXICATED, ALSO IF OTHER PATRONS WERE IN VICINITY WHILE SHOOTING HAPPEND COULD BE CHARGED WITH COUNT 3 RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, IF HE PLEADS GUILTY THELL DROP THE PETTY CHARGES GET FOUND GUILTY OF HOMICIDE AND MAN SLAUTER GET SENTENCED TO 40 YEARS IF HES A GOOD BOY IN THE JOINT AND GOES THROUGH SOME PROGRAMS IN THE JOINT WE COULD SEE HIM BACK AT THE ROCK BOTTOM SALOON IN ABOUT 30 YEARS.

Gina,
You know we don't always see eye to eye, but for the most part I agree with the way you think. Pinching butts, not good. If a man did that, it would be sexual harassment. What was she thinking? But two people dying for it, he's guilty.

I especially love how one witness saying Wirth told Peters "to quit being so fucking stupid" while they were wrestling is spun by people like Christmastime as him "pleading," as if he was the clearer head prevailing until all of a sudden the lightbulb went on in his head..."Wait a minute, I have this concealed gun. I know how to get him to quit trying to beat me up - I'll just slow him down a little with a bulllet!" Is Wirth really that big of a pussy that when he's just being wrestled, rather than pummeled, apparently, he suddenly decides he's not up to the challenge and that his life is in danger because he's possibly in for a little ass-kicking?

You should also take into consideration that that language of the witness could be directly from the police report, when the witness identified Wirth as "the man with the gun." For all we know, he could have just as easily recognized him from the neighborhood or had mutual friends, but he was asked to state what he saw in that objective manner. At least one news report (http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/79355702.html), incidentally, had this to say, more specifically:

'Witnesses say Wirth shot Peters first, then Luick, point blank.

Peters was still alive when paramedics arrived.

"He said, 'He shot me three times. I begged him not to, but he shot me three times,' " said paramedic Robert DeWolfe.

Police arrested Wirth a short time later, and said that he confessed to the murder.

"He said the male subject came after him and he shot him," said Fort Atkinson Police Sergeant Thomas Stewart.'

Came after him! So, Peters lunges, or maybe grabs him, hence the "wrestling," and that's his excuse for shooting him to supposedly defend his life. In short, there are a lot of people (i.e. Christmastime) who are representing themselves as having all the facts, when anyone can google the story and easily find they are in fact embellishing them. Luick wasn't "caught in the crossfire of one bullet that passed through Peters" as one person suggested, if you are to believe the reporting at the link I just shared. Furthermore, if the coroner/EMTs can verify Peters was shot three times, that calls a lot of what has been said above into question.

Gotta love it when the locals chime in and offer peripheral info we wouldn't otherwise have. Thanks jtown res! Wirth is a hotheaded douchebag and a danger to society. People so impulsive/quick to pull the trigger don't belong walking free like the rest of us.

P.S. if you look at the other story on this incident here, the photo of Wirth clearly shows his tattoo DOES say "nothing to lost." My god, what an idiot.

J - you weren't there that night. So maybe you shouldn't act like you know everything. Just saying.

J, YOU seem like the idiot. Were you there that night? Do you know all the facts or what really happened. If not, then shut your pie hole.

1)she grabs his but he tells her to stop 2)She does it agian and he tells her agian in not so nice words. 3)Here and greg leave with another couple and walk out side and she tells greg what happen with andrew but not what started it. 4)He goes back into the bar and tells him to step out side. 5)Him and andrew get into aruging and wrestling out side and andrew told him to stop **** around 2 times by witnesses out side. 6)He shoots 3 bullets into greg as they fought to the ground.One bullet goes thru greg and hits her.He never pointed or ment to shoot her at all and never knew he did till that morning.7)The police officer that pulled him over said he told me where the gun was and also he was on his way to turn himself in.Also that he hoped THE MAN HE SHOT WAS OK THAT HE TOLD HIM TO STOP. What i'm trying to say is if it weren't for her hot headed boyfrind andrew wouldn't be were he is and they would both still be here also.Andrew pulled the trigger in self defense but the truth is if anyone took jenifers life that morning it was greg they were outside and should have just left.Those are the facts trust me I know.I was there tues.PLEASE READ THESE FACTS FROM TUES BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR OPINION.i BELEVE EVERYBODY HAS THE WRITE TO STATE WHAT THEY WANT BUT KNOW THE FACTS THE TRUE FACTS.This shit he shot jenny point blank know your facts.It's funny how some of u report this is what the meadia said.Read my statement and see what the media along with me heard but just didn;t pit all the facts cause what kind of story would it be.NEWS NEVER SAID THAT AT THE END OF THE HEARING THE JUDGE TOLD THE PROSICUTER" SHE HAS 30 DAYS TO RETHINK THE CHARGES BROUGHT AGIANST WIRTH"

i live in okauchee and knew jenni, she was a good cop and a good person, i cant believe some of the stuff im reading on this site, have some compasion for her 12 year old boy and their families

People telling me to shut up for applying deductive logic to the obvious facts just makes me want to share my opinions more. Sounds like the people repeating the exact same type of messages maybe WERE there and are butt hurt that their friend is totally fucked for the rest of his life. Boo hoo. I laugh at you and your friend's predicament, because he is clearly a douchebag, and because that's all there is left to do when faced with tragedy, cheer on the downfall of the people who caused it. Anyone who would allow a tattoo artist to mispell something on his neck is too stupid to do much with his life anyway.

Why would an off duty police officer think it was a good idea to play grab ass with people she did not know? She had to be wasted or wreckless.

"Christmastime",

*huge sigh*

No, I doesn't make me feel better about myself for callin you demented. It does however give me a slight piece of mind. Your sittin there defending this "mans" actions, what else should I call it?

Andrew "defended" himself? Against what?! Greg didn't have a gun. Jennifer didn't have a gun. He was the only one who had one and he is the only one who pulled the trigger. You stated above that greg could have beat andrew to death. Well, I guess we will never know what could have happened, now will we? And why? Cause that idiot killed two people!

If a actual fight, not wrestling to the ground, had happened and greg was bashing andrews head in and jennifer was kicking him repeatedly, then yea, I could see self-defense. But I'm just not buying it with what poor little andrew has told the cops (who believes a murderer?!). Was there defenseive wound on andrew? I have read several stories and have watched the TV news, and I don't think I ever caught that part. So it stands to reason if he didn't have any defensive wounds, he wasn't really injured and he was an idiot and killed two people for no reason.

But you sit there and defend the criminal (does that make you feel better about yourself?). I, myself, feel for the victims, having been a victim of a violent crime. And I will hope that nothing like this happens to someone you love. You want to defend him? Go start a website and do it there. Its pretty obvious that jennifer and greg's family and friends are reading these comments, so show a little respect and compassion.

P.s. You do have the God given right to give your opinion, as do I. But I will never see your side of it.

Sounds to me like "christmastime" has a thing for andrew, the way she defends him. I bet if that was her sister/cousin/friend he did that to, she wouldn't be defending him.

Wirth isn't worth the time or the effort to defend him. He is as useless as dog shit on the bottom of my shoe. I hope he rots.

J-actually his tattoo says "nothing to lose" seen it personally, but in reality he lost!

Ok...for all the PIG supporters out there I have one question for ya. How long can I hit you in the face, punch you in the stomach, or kick you in the head before you can defend yourself? From what Im reading here, it is not ok to defend yourself from the threat of assault and battery. You people are brainwashed idiots to think because she was a cop, that she was an angel.

but the "e" doesn't make any sense. You can see that it's the same height as the "t" in nothing in the photo on the other story here. It doesn't resemble an "e" at all.

Chong, I think the obvious answer to that is until your life is actually in danger. Being wrestled to the ground doesn't qualify, though, and doesn't compare to what you described. But stop making it about being pro or anti law enforcement. If you are against all police, then you are obviously just ignorant and foolish. Who would you call when your car is stolen or your sister is raped? I imagine you would fear getting the police involved and just take vigilante justice into your own hands?

This country may have a lot of problems with police corruption, but every town isn't equally as bad as others, and every cop isn't corrupt. Plenty of of them are good people who take their oath to protect and serve seriously. If some are jaded and do questionable things, it's probably in part because of the pressure of their jobs and having to contend with guys like you who see every one of them as "pigs" because they are trying to feed their families and have a job. It's only criminals and people having constant run-ins with the law who have persecution complexes about LE. Those who aren't prepared to denounce every cop aren't necessarily advocates of seeing every arrested individual get a beat down, etc. etc. etc.

Regardless of what the 'media' says or what 'people who say they were there' said, we will never really know what happened outside. There were two parties out there that night: Luick&Peters on one party and Wirth in the other. One party is dead. The living party gets to tell his story. Don't ever believe what 'they' say. I feel like the point of these sites is to create more animosity between humanity. If not, then that is exactly what it does...

This world has become chaotic where citizens believe that it is ok to kill someone who gets on your nerves or who you perceive to be stupid or annoying. Really? This is what the world has come to?

What about that one man who shot his neighbor in 'self defense' because he thought the neighbor was coming to kill his elderly parents. WTF???? He was coming over to kill his pigs because he had warned him to keep them locked and they killed his daughters dog. Then this idiot of a man kills him because he was a dick, protecting his lying fking parents who lied on stand and got caught in that lie and admitted to it. He still gets off with nothing! As soon as the judge tells him to leave, he says "When can I get my gun back?" How heartless to want something that killed a little girls father...

Murderers are getting away with it everyday and its ok in our society. Its like you all want to root for the stronger party, who in reality is the coward party, who uses objects to kill people...

Yet drug users and abusers are getting life because they got caught up in harming themselves, not others. No wonder all other countries hate us. Our morals are twisted as hell. You can molest a child, kill an animal, or kill a human and you will get parole buddy, or better yet, nothing at all! If you do drugs, kill someone by accident (i.e. car accident, or anything else unintentional) then you are gone for life.

Ignorant system....ignorant government...ignorant laws..ignorant country.

Blair, If you think our Country is ignorant then move to another one and stop your complaining!!!!!!

pete i have no respect for you i see that you are taking off blogs! What is your problem? you don't like people to bicker back and forth? Please use courtesy? Your kidding right? Man dude you controling. This is not news, it's kiddie Land. The people that made this site interesting are gone. Some of the ASSHOLES were RIGHT ABOUT YOU.

Does anyone want to talk about the fact that Gregg was a severe hot head? For God's sake, he is a woman beater. Look him up on ccap. He used to beat Jennifer. She even filed a restraining order against him in 2008. Maybe Andrew really did feel threatened by Peters that night. None of us know. It will come out in court. I never once said that killing is justified. What I have always said is that this sounds like a case of self defense. Andrew took it too far by having a gun at a bar, but he shouldn't be charged with 1st degree intentional homicide. Because he didn't intend to kill either one of them. I'm thinking 2nd degree reckless homicide.

During the arrest, Wirth told the officer Peters had come after him because he had offended Luick. He said he shot Peters because Peters was going to attack him and that the night was “messed up.”

During later interviews, Wirth told investigators he had been on a date and Luick had been bothering him. He said Peters asked him to go outside and the trouble escalated from there. He said, from his perspective, Peters had started the trouble. He told investigators, “If he wanted to (expletive) with me, that's life.” Wirth also said he did not know how many times he fired the gun because it had happened so quickly. He said how much he regretted the situation had resulted in death, that he didn't think Peters had been hit that severely, and he didn't mean to shoot Luick at all. According to the Jefferson County District Attorney's Office during Monday's hearing, Wirth told investigators that, had he known he killed a police officer, he would have committed suicide.

So many idiots on this board! The guy had a gun in a state that does not allow it and KILLED two people! Get that thru your thick craniums. Wirth should have taken his beating like a man.Any goof that has a tattoo of nothing to lose on his neck..you got to wonder.

Christmastime, I don't want to talk about Peters being a hothead or abusive because it shouldn't even come up in the trial. I think it's irrelevant to disproving Wirth deliberately killed these two people. I would not be applicable to whether Wirth intended to kill him or whether he truly thought his life was in danger. If they allow any of Peters past record as evidence, I'm sure it would be objected to and that objection probably sustained by the judge.

the goodlife, you're repeating facts of the case that have been beat to death already. You're basically paraphrasing a news report in your last post. Your object should be to illuminate something that was overlooked. Please offer something new or let's all just agree to disagree and put this one to rest. I don't think there's anything novel being added here at this point.

I amend what I said to exclude the legal stuff you offered on the other post, the goodlife. I find it confusing that multiple threads are created on the same story, makes me forget which ones I posted where. Anyway...I commented over there I'm done commenting on this one.

Christmastime- I on the other hand found it interesting to know that. Thank you. My vote still stands as guilty, anger problems or not, no one should have been killed. If Gregg was holding a weapon other than two fists, I might think differently.

Christmastimes comment was insightful even though it didnt effect my judgement. As well was Rasia's comment above, she knew the killer once upon a time. He too had anger issues. (it was really insightful, it gave a small window into the killers mind if anyone skipped past it.)

If gregg was a woman beater, that was wrong, but that doesnt give Wirth the right to play executioner. You said she had a restraining order on him, and if thats the case, she knew he was abusive and stayed with him which was a mistake. But regardless, neither of them deserved to die this way.

Why is Greggs past even being brought up?? He went outside to fight fair and was murdered by this thug. Gregg had no weapons on him.Does anyone know when the actual trial starts?

Im sure if its leaked out to the media you can find that by searching Wirths name. If not Pete's pretty good at getting updates posted.

I knew Jenny. Gregg wasn't the first boyfriend that she goaded into a bar brawl on her behalf, he was merely the unlucky one. I wouldn't wish the pain her family must feel on anyone, but the fact of the matter is that she wasn't the most law abiding citizen either. Had the incident not happened, she and Gregg had every intention of driving home that night....and had they hit and killed another driver due to their intoxication????.....

How do you know that they were even intoxicated? You don't know that so don't try to go there. It's tragic that Gregg and Jenni just didn't leave when they were going to. The real problem is Wirth carrying a gun in Jefferson..That should tell you something right there. Wirth is done and will be going away for the rest of his life.. Thank God..one less scumbag in our society.

The toxicology reports will be made public during the trial. My money is on the fact that they were both well over .08. Again, I feel for her family, but the fact of the matter is that now that she has passed, and under the circumstances that she did, people would rather praise her as an outstanding person, and amazing officer of the law. She was neither.

And you would drag her down into the mud just because she patted someone on the butt and had a few drinks..GET A LIFE..LOSER. No one else seemed to take issue with her playful butt slapping..she did it to more than just Wirth. The problem is Wirth is a hotheaded thug that has a chip on his shoulder and is angry with the world. The SOB should have stayed home if he didn't want to have a good time.

Wow Fathead! I don't appreciate the character attack for expressing my opinion. I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours. You don't see me attacking you for it. And for your information I am certainly not a loser. I raised a great child, have a great job and am college educated, also helping those in need. If you think that Wirth should have stayed home if he didn't want to have a good time, then so should the victims. I'm sorry, if some stranger (man or woman) pinched my butt when I was on a date, I wouldn't consider it a "good time". Wirth didn't shoot them over a butt pinching anyway. Look at the testimony!!!!

My post was directed towards northwoods. You also seem to be tryin to justify Wirths actions as well. What was the reason for Wirth shooting them then? There is NONE! The guy took it to extremes and shot two people. The only fool in this tragedy is Wirth.

Fathead, I'm not trying to justify what Wirth did. I agree that he took a fight to deadly extremes. My only stance is that he should not be charged with 1st Degree Intentional Homicide. The law says that 1st Degree Intentional Homicide calls for pre-meditation. There was none. More like 2nd degree wreckless homicide. I'm sure you will disagree with me (and that's ok), but I do think that this situation (as sad as it is) involved the actions of all three. Wirth's actions were by far the worst (killing is NEVER justified, unless you feel like your life is truly in danger), but they all had a part in how the night transpired. Not how it ended, but how it transpired. I feel bad for the family members of all involved. They now have to go through hell because of their own family members actions. No one deserved to die that night. AND no one deserved to be harrassed either. Both are wrong. Not equally wrong, Wirth was by far the most wrong.

Wirth took it to a level that most would never even consider.

Fathead, yes I agree....Wirth took it to a level that most wouldn't even consider. Also, most people wouldn't have a gun at a bar. I wasn't there, therefore I don't know what happened in the parking lot. But from witness testimony, it sounds like Wirth yelled twice for Gregg to "stop being so f'ing stupid" as they wreslted outside. Gregg really was a hot head, as I'm sure Wirth is. Wirth knew he had a gun on him when Gregg called him outside. So, Wirth should never have gone outside, but Gregg should never have called him outside either. Especially over something so stupid as Jenni grabbing Wirth's ass and Wirth responding poorly to her ass grabbing. The bottom line, is that they should not have been fighting in the parking lot in the first place and obviously Wirth shouldn't have been packing a gun. Sad all around.

Northwoods, you hit it right on the head!!!! Luick and Peters started the whole chain of events. And yes, who would have driven their drunk asses home? Hmmmmm.....she is a cop right?! Yet she allowed her abusive boyfriend to call another outside for a bar fight. I believe physical violence is a crime as well as pinching another's ass. Doesn't seem like the actions of an upstanding police officer!!!!!! Wirth was wrong too, but I'm sick of hearing people stick up for Luick and especially Peters. They started this whole mess. Wirth didn't go out to that bar looking for trouble, it found him and insisted on "taking it outside" Stupid, stupid, stupid.

My husband is a captain for the local Sheriff's Dept where we live. I asked him to talk to his friend a local judge here. Even though these two off duty Officers were drinking, Jennifer was pinching Butt's and Gregg told Andrew to go out side. You can't kill another human like that. If Andrew went outside and had the gun on him it is Man-Slaughter, if Andrew went and got a gun than went outside to meet Gregg it's murder. Andrew will proably get two counts of Man-slaughter back to back and a misdemeanor for the gun charge. And two people are dead, regardless is these two cops started the fight or not. That's why we have laws. Andrew should have called the Police and made a report about Jeniffer pinching his Butt, Sexual Harrassment. He had witnesses, she had been drinking it would not have looked good for her or her job.

I wish who ever is posting as me (sandy) would stop. Your sentances do not make sence. I have never gotten up at 5:48 a.m.
attorney boomer, I was just woundering why are you YELLING? For an Attorney you can't spell. Attorney??

I do agree that Jenni pinching butts of strangers is a little weird given that she is an officer of the law HOWEVER..it in no way justifies the extreme action that Wirth took..MURDERING two people. Wirth is a complete weirdo and has some serious issues.

Sandy- I actually completely agree. Though I wouldnt cry if this guy got charged with murder and not manslaughter, it wasnt premeditated and, from what I've read, he didnt go to get a gun. Either way, he should be charged with something.

Christmastime and Northwood- Luick and Peters may have begun the chain of events that lead to this tragedy, but if Wirth wouldnt have shot anyone he wouldnt be in this mess. He made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. Its as simple as that. People are defending Luick and Peters because they didnt deserve to die. No one said its okay to pinch peoples butts, or drive drunk, or even ask a person to step outside with intentions to fight, but that is irrelevant because all of that still isnt a reason for these 2 people to be dead.

Sandy, it could have just been another Sandy. Ive seen another Gina on here before.

Wirth is guilty.........

Gina, I know a few people have been possing as someone else. This site is turning into a war zone. I do agree with you and some of the others. What is up with making an excuse for killing someone because of a pinched butt. The drinking and driving, where is that coming from they never left the parking lote.

here's some FACT'S!!andrew is in a bar with his girlfriend.jennie is in a bar with her boyfriend.jennie is walking around this bar grabbing asses.now...andrew might not usually take offense to this kind of thing,but after all he is with his girlfriend.andrew tells jennie to back off and she gets offended and tells her meathead boyfriend.now why this meathead didnt say "well wtf are u doing grabbibg other men's asses for" to jennie confuses me.here's where the story get's questionable.in other forums here,ppl are saying that greg and jennie left the bar and came back after alrdy getting into altercation with andrew.did they go and go a gun?did they go down the street for a pack of smokes?who knows.what we do know is that now there back at the bar and at it again with andrew who alrdy told them once to piss off.this greg guy was clearly looking for a fight with andrew.mabe he thought he was superior and could eaasily kick his ass.mabe andrew was not in the mood to fight at all and was scared to get his ass handed to him.the question is here....if this was u in a bar and a very intimidating man was trying to get u outside to fight what would u do?would u fight this guy and potenionally get your jaw broke or skull fractured?i would have done the same thing to greg if i was andrew personally.any fighter knows that you have to be in a good frame of mind before fighting or u are going to lose.mabe andrew wasnt able to find that adrenaline to woop gregs ass bare nuckles.bottom line is this...greg got what he deserved.according to his rap sheet its been a long time coming too. the man is 40+.now jennie...i feel some remorse for.but here's where fact's come into play.did jenie try to stop andrew when he puuled a gun and got caught in the cross fire?was she screaming at andrew liek her meathead Bfriend kinda of ganging up on andrew?i wish there were forums posted from the ppl that were at that bar or outside close up to here and tell us what was going on exactly.and for ppl still saying that he was trying to jump over the family in court...u ppl are worse then the dam press.the man just got told by a judge that he was sitting in jail unless he comes up with a million dollars.wtf would u do?and cops tazering a man when its 6 on 1?u ppl are are screwed up.i believe jennie shouldnt have died that night and andrew should have to pay for her life at least.im only saying this because of the small portion of facts that we have.

sandy i love the way you spell parking lot.and ask your cop husband if sexual asulting people in public is a crime. also ask him is it kool for a cop to drive drunk or ride along with a drunk cause one of them was going to drive and bac will come out at trial and will be above .08 for both jenni and gregg were no angels either cop's need to live by a higher standerd.

Well the charges for killing the boyfriend will be dropped, manslaughter at most for the woman who started this whole mess. As far as self defense, i believe it will be pretty easy to prove that a larger drunker gregg was the aggressor. Im sure the d.a. will rethink the charges given the criminal history for domestic violence Mr. Peters had, because if that gets to a jury, along with the fact the woman new of his past because she filed for a protective order approx one year ago against him, Wirth will walk. Carrying a concealed firearm in wi is illegal but using it to defend yourself is not. For those who dont believe that a shooting might be justified i ask this question, How many times can i hit you in the face before you will try to defend yourself by any means you can. If im choking you to death is it justifiable then? If a rapist attacks a woman by hitting and punching her, she cant use a firearm to protect herself from a larger stronger attacker?

I am shocked at what I am reading. I did not know any of these people or have ties to them what so ever but my god what are you all thinking. Self defense are you CRAZY...first fo all Wisconsin is not a conceal and carry state under no terms are you allowed to carry a concealed weapon.For that I say if you are carrying a weapon you are looking for no good this is a community where you don't have to lock your door you can leave your car running to run into the store!!! Andy was not forced to come outside he very well could have stayed inside or just could have left. But he CHOSE to go outside!!! Jenni & Greg barley had 2 feet out the door and he was shooting...Now does that sound like self defense..Noone really knows exactly what happened but Jenni, Greg and Andy...2 of the are dead. I would like to know would he still be not guilty in your eyes if this was your sister or mother lying there dead becuase she piched the wrong guy in the BUTT!! Lets face it we are going by hear say ...Noone saw the actual shooting..Just Andy waving the gun...Then the rest is history. Andy knew what he was doing "Nothing to lose" I guess you can say those words are coming back to haunt him. I hope none of you have to go thruogh something like this and people are point fingers at your family saying that they prevoked someone to kill them!!!

Cops are humans too. They need a relief value especially after a weeks worth of idiots(like the idoits who have commented her about these people deserving it cause they started a fight) The biggest idiot is Andrew for not knowing the rules for where he has traveled too. In Wisconsin, the normal reaction to this situation would be to fight back, go back inside have a drink, and laugh it off. This idiot thought it would be cool to shot people. Then make comments like I didn't mean to kill them.

Jenni and Gregg were wonderful people who went out and made decision clouded by alcohol. For people to make comments about her being a cop and shouldn't off even went there is ignorant. Cops drink too and yet the same effects happen to them when they drink. Gregg didn't pull a gun out Andrew did. Andrew was the one who took it to the next level. The level he should have to pay for the rest of his life. It's life, it happens.

Spectulars, did you know Gregg and Jenni personally? If so, then how can you call a woman beater a good person? Gregg was charged with it TWICE!!!!! So obviously, he had a terrible temper, therefore, I'm sure he was provoking Andrew. Unless you were in the parking lot that fatefull night, you can't say that it wasn't a form of self defense. Should Andrew have had a gun in the first place? NO. He will go to jail for killing two people no matter what. I don't think he should serve very much time.

every body likes to say the ass grabbing was just a playfull joke. what would people say if me a 40 year old adult male went out on a dance floor grabbing womens asses id be beat up and arrested for sexual assult.get a record and probably jail time no playfull joke is it. one other thing to keep in mind andy had major back problems and gregg beating him up could have seriously fucked up his back worse andy did fear for his safety in this reguard. also gregs past violent behavior also goes in andys favor he may have had a stupid tattoo but so do alot of other people andys record reflects only a few traffic tickets

Boomer63 -- I can tell you what Officer Jenni would have done to a 40 year old going around a bar grabbing women on the ass.....She would have strongly encouraged them to file a report for sexual assult, insisted that the suspected individual follow her outside to get his side of the story, then arrested him for public intoxication in addition to the sexual assult charge. The band wasn't the reason Jenni and Gregg were over in Jefferson that night. She never drank in bars in the Oconomowoc area. I bartended at several, and it was well known that the chief actively encouraged the officers to drink outside of Waukesha county in general. Jenni knew better than anyone what Gregg's temper was and his propensity tword violence. She had no problem unleashing him on a complete stranger for the violation of not being enamored of her unwanted advances. Again, like I stated before, the toxicology reports that will come out in trial will undoubtedly show that both she and Gregg were well above the legal limit. They had been in the bar for hours, and were seen drinking all night. Even for someone who can "hold their liquor" 4-5 hours of drinking is going to result in a drunk!!

boomer63, Thank you for liking the way I spelled parking lot (LOTE). I like the way you spell Kool, cause and bac. "Cause you is real kool, I bet bac in school you are real learned to." As for Jennifer and sexual asult, she's dead. So nothing going to happen there. And Yes, carring a concealed gun is a misterminer. Andrew carried the gun with the intent to commit bodily harm. And that's what the the State will try and PROVE> You don't know if Jennifer or Greg were going to drive that night, they never got the chance to." Your what if's are silly." Andrew is a killer and what makes it even twice as bad for him, he's a COP killer.

NOT GUILTY.

sandy who cares that she was a cop they were 2 people. all i keep hearing is off duty cop killed they never state what gregg did for a living or does the media give a shit. she was a cop that made bad choices and went back to a woman beater. in my eyes she should have been a waitress

boomer63, thank you. I am very glad you asked actually, I've been wanting someone to ask. What would I do if you, a 40 year old man pinched my butt at the bar? I tell you one thing, I wouldnt shoot you. I would call you a dirty old pervert and tell you you're way over your limit if you thought you had a chance. (Not to be a complete bitch, but Id have been offended and thats 19 years older than me so it would gross me out). I wouldnt shoot you. I wouldn't even call the cops. I have a nice butt, I have had my butt slapped, grabbed, you name it. I'd possibly kick you. Possibly in the balls too. But not shoot you. Thats the thing. I know Jenni was wrong, and she shouldn't have escalated it by bringing her boyfriend in to it. All of this could have been avoided by her just walking away. I understand that Andrew has back problems, and that could very well have been in his thought process, but now I ask you: If you were him, would you rather look like a pussy and tell him no your not going to go outside with him, get your ass kicked, or shoot him?

gina i agree he should not have went outside it could have all been avoided. bad choices by all 3 involved andy made the biggest mistake by firing a wepon. but i will have to say jenni and gregg both played a role in what was to become this tragedy for all 3 partys involved. ps i wont be grabin your ass i like my balls.

The Wirth defenders can think what they want..he's going away for the rest of his life like he SHOULD.

Wirth murdering two people will get him life..add to that his his stupid tattoo and acting up in court.

Fathead,

boomer63,kaylee Think the same. Pinch on the Butt, KIll THEM. I know, Andrew's dog had FLEA's that night.

boomer63,
I was reading one of your blogs above from days ago. You stated that, Jennifer pinched Andrew (in the ASS.)LOL You also keep pointing out that some of the public veiws state the victums were COPS. You state that they are just people. True. But that's not how it's going to go down. Once he is in Prison, guaranty you that. As far as your opinion that Jennifer should be a waitress means nothing. You are one of those people when you are in any trouble, the first phone call you make is to the POLICE.

boomer63,
You stated," Posted 12/21/2009 at 08:33:19 PM
boomer63 said:
sandy who cares that she was a cop they were 2 people. all i keep hearing is off duty cop killed they never state what gregg did for a living or does the media give a shit."
Are you DRUNK? Because you can't even get the NAMES and facts straight, even when they are printed above all of our comments. The KILLER'S NAME IS ANDREW WIRTH !!!!

Fathead,
I bet Andrew doesn't go to jail for the rest of his life. He'll get some time, but not life. The DA will most likely reduce the 1st degree intentional homicide to something less severe. There is no jury that would convict him of 1st degree intentional homicide. That charge calls for pre-meditation. There is none here.

Sandy, you said: You don't know if Jennifer or Greg were going to drive that night, they never got the chance to." Your what if's are silly."
Hmmm let me think a minute, 1)Their friends left earlier-when they should have, and 2)they lived in the Oconomowoc area. Were they walking back to Oconomowoc??? It's pretty darn safe to assume they wee driving back.

woodman you hit it right on the head sandy talks out of her ass i geuess she thinks a genie may apear and give them a ride home on a magic carpet or maybe jenni was going to call her cheif to come pick up her and meat head. face the facts sandy this COP was always breaking the laws that she arrested otters for

Christmastime, woodman,
I am glad that you are a mind reader, no one knows how they were getting home pretty darn safe to assume or not. Their dead so that is not even going to be an issue.
Christmastime if Andrew went an got the gun before he went outside, or if the state's Attorney can prove Andrew came into that bar that night to kill someone anyone regardless it is pre-meditation.

boomer63,
When you can't prove a point do you always resort to dirty language? Know one knows how anyone was getting home that night, what difference does it make? People go to a bar to drink that is what a bar is for. To sell Alcohol. Everyone was drinking? Andrew dumb ass had a gun. He killed two people. The question here is why did Andrew have a gun in the first place? Everyone knows he is a boy-scout.
Get real

boomer63, I definitely agree all 3 made bad decisions and all 3 of them put in to play what happened. And I respect that you can see where I'm coming from, and I see where you are coming from too. Your whole basis is that this was all brought upon by the victims, which is completely true. I just think no one had to die. And I dont think he meant to kill anyone, if only he would have left his gun at home that day. The booze and bad reactions Im sure was what made him make the stupid decision in pulling the trigger. But if it was me, I know I'd have to pay for taking two lives.

Sandy, how on earth do you think the State's Attorney will prove that Andrew intended to kill someone that night?

Christmastime,
His intention that night was to cause great bodily harm as soon as he pulled the illegally concealed weapon out of his jacket and pulled the trigger and killed two people. That is how the states attorney will prove their case.
9 out of 10 they will win.

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success.
In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder.

It's NOT 1st Degree Intentional Homicide. To prove that there must be pre-meditation. There was none!!! So no they won't win unless the DA reduces the current charges against him. Plain and simple.

christmastime,
You are right, pre-meditation was going to be harder to prove with less prison time. So the DA went after the next best thing just as good or better.
During the confrontation that followed, Wirth, 24, pulled out a .380 semiautomatic handgun and fatally shot Peters and Luick, an off-duty Town of Oconomowoc police officer, according to the criminal complaint charging Wirth with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide
(Wisconsin Statute 940.01 defines first-degree intentional homicide as an act committed by any person causing the death of another person with the intent to kill that person or another person)
If the DA had gone after Pre-Meditation that's second degree murder.
So you see Christmastime it is all working out for everyone, Jennifer's killer is going to pay for a long time. Andrew will not be going to any more BARS.
Happy Holidays

I actually am really starting to like this discussion, people are actually discussing it like rational human beings instead of name calling and insults. No racism or religion involved.

And I think both sides have a valid point. I dont think it was premeditated, not many do, but he still killed two human beings. We'll all be sitting waiting for trial. Speaking of which, does anyone know when the trial will be?

well i hate to disagree, but the having the concealed weapon doesn't prove intent, just an illegal weapon, its not against the law to use that weapon in self defense. With the victims criminal background, history of violence in bars in the area, the da will be lucky to get manslaughter in regards to mr peters. If the autospy report shows a rounds traveling through mr peters into the other female victim, theirs no premeditation. One can also argue that because of her intimate knowledge of mr peters background, and her encouraging the assault by peters on wirth, that she too in fact was an assailant (we know she at the very least was grabbing his ass) rather than an innocent victim that was hit by a stray round. The victims actions throughout the night do nothing but lead credibility to the claim of self defense. The weapons charges as far as carrying concealed will stick no problem, but to make the families have to listen to the prosecutions own witnesses testify that the victims instigated a confrontation not once but twice, will be very hard im afraid. If this also goes to trial the police dept will have to answer what training it gives its officers as far as behavior off duty, sexual harassment etc. It will open a hole can of worms because at no time did the female victim that night identify herself to mr wirth as an officer of the law to stop a confrontation.

Gina,
I thought I heard his next trial will be January 14, 2010.
Some dude, If both sides use credibility and they will. They will bring up Andrew's past history of crime. Why was he carring a gun? He had no reason other than looking for troable(that's what the DA will try and prove) that night?
I hope that Andrew gets first-degree intentional homicide it carries a longer prison sentence. Where did you hear that Andrew shot Gregg and a stray round hit Jennifer? Gregg had three shots in him and Jennifer had on in her chest. They have not released anything on how many shots were fired from Andrew's gun?

Will someone please cite a source for the idea that Luick was hit by a straight bullet vs. shot point blank? I challenge you to find a credible one.

J, What in hell are you trying to say. Do you want information about if Jennifer was hit by a stray shot or Andrew intended to shot her after he shot Gregg?

Sandy, the media reported that the police found 3 empty rounds in the parking lot. And that Gregg was shot 3 times. IF those facts are true, then it would make sense that Jennifer was unfortunately shot by a stray bullet. Since the judge told the DA that she has 30 days to re-think her charges against Wirth, it will be interesting to see what Wirth ends up being charged with. Maybe 1st or 2nd Degree Reckless Homicide? "Second-degree reckless homicide is the reckless causing of the death of another human being or unborn child, and carries a penalty of a Class D felony".

We'll see. Happy Holidays!

Bottom line guns and alcohol do not mix! All the people involved in this drama where wrong to some point;but to kill two people,because the female victim pinched your butt!Talk about payback,wow! What a pussy.He should have took it like a man.Now when he goes to jail;for the rest of his life;he'll be taking it like a woman!

neo have you actually read any of the testimony by the witnesses? Im not sure where it says when confronted by two or more assailants you must only fist fight in the law. The reckless may not stick because it will be shown that the two victims instigated the entire incident. At no time during the night according to witnesses did wirth approach either victim to start an altercation. In fact witness testimony shows the exact opposite occurred. You seem to think that mr wirth was under a legal obligation to be perhaps be beaten to death by a larger man and his instigating girlfriend. If a rapist tries to choke your mom to death, is she within her rights to shoot him? Under your theory your mom could only fight bak with her fists and " take it like a man". Your reasoning doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

christmastime, if you're facts are accurate, that they only found 3 shells, that would go a long way in proving that Luick was killed accidentally. I finally found a source that suggested 3 casings were found, and it took awhile. But here's at least one news report that doesn't concur with what the idea she was shot by a stray bullet:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34439268/ns/local_news-milwaukee_wi/

In reality, we can't say for sure that the third time Peters was shot was not him caught in the crossfire of Luick being shot point blank. Maybe she rushed to Peters's aid and the two of them were shot with that third bullet while she leaned over him. It's impossible to say from the contradictory information that made it to the media. It sounds to me like there weren't first-hand witnesses. Most of what is reported to have been seen is the aftermath, people stumbling in after being shot.

Your turn.

J, I'm sure you also understand that eyewitness testimony can sometimes be left out of a case completely because it isn't always credible. You and I can watch the same five minute round of an MMA fight and we will see two completely different things. Due to this, the media will of course be reporting different stories. Even investigative evidence that is "leaked" can't always be trusted.

The truth is that no one knows what exactly happened. The only thing that I know is that I find it hard to believe that he should get charged with murder in the first degree simply because I don't believe he intentionally went there to kill those two poor souls. Maybe it was bad judgment, maybe it was bad timing, but that doesn't exactly equal murder in the first degree.

This is a terrible tragedy! Two people are dead, and another is headed off to prison for the rest of his life. These two did not deserve to die! But c'mon.....Jennifer was a COP! She was 37, not exactly a teenager anymore. From years of training to be a police officer, wouldn't she know that her actions were actually a misdemeanor....she should NOT have been drinking to the point where she wasn't aware of her actions.....she should be an example to the public......and her boyfriend has been charged with several domestic abuse fines.....that makes him a bully in my book. He was out to prove that he was untouchable. Yes, what Andrew did was cowardly and now he faces a lifetime of prison to think about it. But at the same time, let this be a lesson to everyone that there can be tragic consequences for your actions.

christmastime,
Your assumptions are great as of today 12/23/09 Andrew is being charged with 1st degree intentional homicide. The judge may have suggested that the DA re-think the charges( I tried to find that statement and could not)there is to much stack against this guy. Regardless he needs to be taken off the streets.
However, several witnesses told police they saw Wirth threatening Peters with a gun, and one saw Wirth shoot Peters and Luick, according to the complaint.
Peters was shot in the left side of the torso and died at Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa.

Luick, was shot near her right breast and died
I did not read anything about a stray shot, did you? These statement are according to eye witnesses???

Yes, concernedcitizen, I can agree with everything you said. Like Sandy, I just want the guy to do some time. I'm not that emtionally invested in seeing it be his whole life (although I think philosophically, it wouldn't matter to me if it was), or whether it's reduced to 2nd degree homicide or whatever the legal distinction is. My main objections all along were a) calling it self-defense, b) blaming the victims for angering him to the point that he shot a gun at anyone, be it Peters or both of them, and lastly c) the rhetoric of saying shooting someone is not deliberate (i.e. intentional - which I realize better now in the strict definition of that word is the nuance that the court needs to examine). My issue was more the theoretical issue of laypeople calling it unintentional, because I still attest that when you shoot someone, your expectation is less that they are likely to live than that they will probably die.

I mean, of course, shooting to kill. I think when you deliberately shoot someone, you are generally trying to kill them, with the exceptions I already gave - aiming for their leg or maybe their foot (gruesome thought in and of itself) and maybe only firing off a single round. The way I feel about it is probably obvious by now, so pardon me for beating this to death. Three bullets, to me = intentional homicide of at least Peters, not saying I grasp all the legal subtleties of that, just my own personal interpretations of that verbage itself. Sorry if that clouds the issue, but at first I thought that's all we were talking about, his intent to kill them, because of what he said, "I didn't think I shot him enough to kill him," being concerned about whether they lived (of course that would worry him whether he genuinely cared about their well-being or not!), his crying, saying "I didn't mean to kill, "etc.

some dude knows what he is talking about.

Pretty Boy you are a fucking RETARD! Know the facts? You sure as Fuck don't. I was there. There weren't any true wittnesses. Noone was right there, a few saw from a distance. There was no wrestling, he was standing with a gun pointed at them, and he shot before any potential altercation started. He is a piece of shit murderer, and his word as to what happened doesn't mean shit!!!!!!!!!!!!

H J, You're forgetting the part of witness testimony where they said that Andrew yelled for Gregg to "stop being so f'ing stupid". The same witness also said that Gregg and Andrew were entangled with each other. You say you were there that night which means nothing unless you were one of the witnesses that were called to testify in court. Were you? If not, you apparantly did'nt see or hear anything.

Based on the multiple news reports and the fact that HJ's explanation apparently wasn't referred to in police reports, plus the fact that he contradicts himself (saying there were no witnesses, yes some saw if from a distance), I'm not sure how he could make his claim. It still would have been secondhand information, even if he was inside to hear the details afterward. If you look at the pictures of the bar, you would have to be outside to witness this or understand the fighting leading up to it i.e. wrestling or just standing there being shot point blank. Peters and Luick are both described as stumbling in after the incident. I'm not sure who he is calling Pretty Boy, but he wasn't addressing anything I said, because I already indicated there seemed to be no eyewitnesses in my previous post. Maybe he knows one of the other posters by another nickname?

Hey fathead I was at the bar that night and they were jrunk as hell! so let northwoods1 call it as it is.. Oh and fathead your wrong thats 3 scumbags less in our society not 1!!!!

I know that none of us have all the facts yet (they will come out in trial), but from what we do know so far, it's interesting that we are split in our opinions. Men and women just like us will make up the jury pool. Which brings up and interesting question....Could Andrew get a hung jury? It's possible.

I have a news flash for all of you. Wisconsin is on OPEN CARRY state, which means if the firearm is visible it is legal! Had Mr Wirth been carrying his firearm in a holster visible to the public, I very much doubt that Mr. Peters would have been so intent on asking him to step outside over his girlfriend's "indiscretion". As long as you are not convicted of a felony, you may possess a firearm in WI. Hell, you can even have one in a vehicle as long as it is unloaded and properly cased while in transport! It continues to be a gray area in regard to entering public establishments exposing a weapon. The business owner has the right to refuse service if they wish.

As far as Mr. Wirth's affiliation with the Diablo Lobos, that is irrelevant. There are 2 or 3 generations of this motorcycle CLUB (not gang), so obviously they have been around a long time. He was only a probationary member. I wasn't even aware you got a jacket until you were a full member....and no, murder is not initiation!

As far as Mr. Peters past record of abusive behavior and lack of respect for the hunting laws of WI you can bet your boots that will be introduced at trial. There may be a motion to supress from the prosecuton, but i doubt it will be granted.

I have been a resident of this area all my life. While there is not as much violence as seen in Madison or Milwaukee, there still is crime. The difference is that most murders are domestic in nature, not as random and blatant as this one. Jefferson County is up to it's eyeballs in cold cases, unsolved murders and disapearances, not to mention numberous drunk driving homicide/manslaughter cases. Just like every other jurisdiction in the State and Country. It just catches you off guard when it is so close to home!

WOW.........nice, real nice. Show a little respect for the deceased. Yes, she was a good looking woman, not a piece of meat for you jackass! Probably a little too classy for you though, considering your vulgar post. Don't flatter yourself, you probably wouldn't even have gotten the time of day!

Local Lady, well said!!! You seem very educated about the law. I hope the prosecution can't supress Gregg's history. I strongly feel that it is relevant to this case because it will show the mentality and threat of a hot head such as Gregg. Just because Andrew had a gun on him that night doesn't mean that he intended to use it that night. I'm sure he had it for protection. After all it is legal to bare arms. He shouldn't have had it on him at a bar while drinking though. All three were wrong. I don't think Andrew should spend life in prison since he didn't provoke this situation...he only reacted to it the only way he knew how. Smart? No, but he was only 24 years old.

Local Lady, Christmastime,
At first I thought the same about the gun. The state is not going after Pre-Meditation.
according to the criminal complaint: charging Wirth with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide. These charges are easier to prove. Was Wirth a Felon? If he was then, what was he doing with the gun? If he is not a Felon he should not of had a gun? Okay Gregg was a hothead? Wirth has a rap sheet? Jennifer was a mother and a cop? Their dead and Wirth shot and killed them. But you two know the law because GREGG broke a hunting law and was a hothead.

Wirth had no previous rap sheet other than a traffic ticket. This was reported on Fox network news. Also, look up his history on http://wcca.wicourts.gov/simpleCaseSearch.xsl;jsessionid=C445DD526C85D9EEEFF1E572EE8365E2.render5?
(he is the only one with the date of birth May 1985.) There are several others Andrew J Wirths listed but with a different date of birth and address. Make sure ur looking at the right one!!

woodman,
Fox news is entertainment. The guy is still being charged with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide.

Hey guys! have been involved in this discussion as a participant and as well as an observer! You guys rock!!!

Wishing all you guys a very happy new year!..

to "Correction", my point is that Mr. Wirth had no previous criminal record unlike Mr. Peters. Nuf said!

woodman,
Wirth's rap sheet is not clear as of yet. But okay. Gregg is dead and Wirth is going to prison with a trafic ticket and two counts of first-degree intentional homicide.

"jokingly grabbed his butt"

uh

that's battery

and plenty of people have been killed for less

Of all people, a cop should have known better. And her boyfriend was trying to be a tough guy. Why?

If Wirth is such a victim in all of this how do you explain the paramedics testimony that Peters repeated to him that he BEGGED Wirth not to shoot him THREE times?? Wirth is done.

And plenty have been killed for less..LOL! The mentality of some of you on this board is absurd. And those same people who have killed for less are probably serving life sentences just like this piece of Sh*t Wirth should.

People are getting confused..Peters was shot twice, that is confirmed. He begged Wirth THREE times not to shoot him according to the testimony of the paramedic that treated Peters. Where people are getting the idea that Peters was shot three times and one went thru him and into Luick I have no idea.

Correction..Peters thought he was shot three times but it turns out that he was actually shot twice. And he also said that he begged Wirth not to shoot him. That's all he said according to testimony that he begged him not to shoot him. So I stand corrected on the begging of three times..I got that confused with Peters saying he was shot three times.

Hmm...I'm finding it hard to imagine erroneous reports of the number of bullet wounds making it this far to the news. maybe the same bullet somehow struck him twice, like went through his arm and into his side or something. Who knows. One of the most unnerving things to me about this is the reminder of how fleeting life is, though. Like, the fact that Peters could be lucid enough to give the details to the EMTs and then within 24 hours be dead from the wounds. It's uncanny to me. When you hear about 2 people being shot and managing to stumble back in and tell other to call for help...man, it's chilling. I guess I just don't expect people to get up at all after being shot. That's why killing someone with a gun being unintentional is so hard for me to believe.

what i dont understand is why nobody is talking about what she did was fourth degree sexual assault. she also fueled the fight they had left and returned that shows premeditated actions. so because of wisconsins finest another man will spend the rest of his life in prison. she had a restraining order on peters and she was breaking the law by not following the no contact order. maybe the police need to screen their officers a little better.

Ben, come on! We have beaten that topic to death, read the whole thread. If he felt assaulted, he should have called the police and filed a report or some disciplinary action. She probably would have lost her job. It's irrelevant. Nothing that happened that night justifies killing two people.

Also read the other "timebomb" thread on this case. There's enough people saying that on there to satisfy your desire to blame the victims.

Ben, Well said! I, as do many others agree 100%

Maybe I missing something here premedition to do what pitch his butt or ask Wirth to go outside. And yes in any state if you murder two people you to to prison. Jenni may have had a restraining order against Gregg what did that have to do with Wirth? Sorry Christmastime and Jason you should check out your information first you are both wrong.

4th Degree Criminal Sexual Conduct
A. 4th degree CSC requires proof of "sexual contact" with elements the same as 3rd degree. Other elements are:

1. Victim is 13, 14, or 15, and

a. defendant is 4 years older

3rd degree Criminal Sexual Conduct
A. 3rd degree CSC requires proof of "sexual penetration" and one or more of the following elements:

1. Victim is under 13, and defendant is less than 3 years older.

2. Victim is 13, 14, or 15, and
a. defendant is 2 years older

3. Victim is 16 or 17, and

Correction,
What the hell are you talking about? I need to be corrected about what? I never said anything about 4th degree sexual assault. Have you lost your mind?

Also, to answer your question about what Jenni's restraining order against Gregg has to do with anything: If Wirth's defense attorney is able to bring it up in court, it will show that Gregg is a known abuser therefore violent and quick to temper. Which will show a jury that Wirth may in fact have felt that his life was in danger of this abuser.

j the facts are she caused the whole problem by acting in like a criminal she was touching people who didnt want to be touched and told her boyfriend that she had a restraing order on at least at one time to go and confront andrew two things a cop or citizen should never do. your right nobody deserves to lose their life over this stupid action and that includes andrew jenny or gregg. i think her title of officer went to her head and it ruined three families all because of some innocent butt grabing

All of you people who say that Gregg and Jenni had NOTHING to do with the events of that night and the tragic outcome are the same people who probably don't take responsibility for your own actions either! Always blaming others for your actions and not accepting the consequences of said actions. True isn't it? Gregg and Jenni started the events, then called a scarry looking guy outside for a fight. How did their actions NOT contribute to the end result?

my other problem is the news agencies are to blame for the innaccuracies andrew moved from pensylvania to work for bucyrus he was here a year before he even knew about the club. he moved from milwaukee to jefferson for cheaper living since he was on medical from bucyrus. if you look at ccap andrew was pulled over numerous times for traffic infractions if he was a loose cannon always carrying a gun and a menace to society why didnt the local police find a gun on him or arrest him for anything else. he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and looking up mr peters record it seemed to be just a matter of time before he found someone who wouldnt take his crap and there was a witness incourt that said peters was chocking andrew and saying he was going to kill him if you want right info goi to court unless your scared

Ben, You bring up another excellent point! The media has always been known to print half-truths and what they think their readers want to read about.

I am eager to hear the FACTS about this case. Unfortunately, I can't be in court to hear them due to my work schedule. Will you be in the courtroom so that we can get the real facts?

Ben I totally agree with what you are saying...but to set the record straight when you go to CCAP there are other Andrew Wirths listed. This Andrew Wirth has A May 5, 1985 date of birth and there is only one traffic violation and no other violations prior to this incident. So for those who say he is a loose cannon, I would think he would also have a lengthy record which he does not.

Christmastime

Christmastime, you agreed with Jason in he's above comment. He said, “ Jenni committed a 4th degree assault.” If your going to agree with his statement than I take it as agreeing to all of it. Some of you that justify Wirth killing two people over a pinch on the Butt, and the hot headed boyfriend telling Wirth to go outside is ridiculous. If Wirth was so scarred why didn't he just call the police? So he shoots them not once but several times. That solved the Butt pinching. I can't believe you said this, "How did their actions NOT contribute to the end result?"So your saying the end result is justified and two people are dead. It is their OWN FAULT.
If you hit my car and my kid gets hurt. you contributed to the accident I should be able to kick your ASS.

woodman: how many times are you going paste and copy that same comment?

to correction: UNTIL YOU GET IT!!! Nothing was copied and pasted, by the way! You seem to have personal connection with Jenni and Gregg. You keep repeating the same thing over and over in their defense. It's about time you face the facts, honey, they brought it on. No, they should not have been killed over it, but they brought it upon themselves. Those of us who have no personal connection to ANY of the three, get that! Why can't you! Wake up!

To Correction: get off this website! I think we're all sick of your crap!

he is guilty of two counts of first degree murder and needs to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. I agree at times a police officer (off-duty) may do something wrong or maybe dating the wrong man--I did not know either personally---but when she was patrolling the streets of TOWN OF OCONOMOWOC--she was a very pleasant and friendly cop--and let me tell you we don't have many like her--there are a few. She would help you out in a heartbeat. So please stop talking like she did this god awful thing and she deserved what she got or GREG PETERS-neither one deserved to die and neither one of their children deserves not to have their mom or dad.

Amen to that brennan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not sure of the laws of the state; but it is not illegal to carry a gun in some places. My 60 year old mom carries a gun; legally. Obviously Wirth was in the wrong... Yes he was provoked.. Jennifer shouldn't have put her hands on him... but it was a MISTAKE.. we all don't know the whole story; but its seems Gregg provoked a fight; which he shouldn't have done. Wirth would have been in trouble either way. Even "sexually assaulted" and provoked into a fight; if he would have fought "fair" and whooped Greggs ass then he would have gone to jail and the other two would get nothing! Because shes a cop! Sometimes cops think they are above the law; not saying thats the case here.. but sometimes people do stupid things b/c they think they won't get into trouble b/c of there status.. whatever it may be.
It was a terrible thing that happened.. it should never have gone so far. My prayers go out to the families of everyone involved!

Leave Correction alone. This is a site for people to voice there opinions. Whats the old elementary school rule; "If you don't like what someone is saying.. IGNORE THEM". You feel so strongly about your opinion and you have no problem voicing it... let it be.

for those of you who are interested wisconsin does not have a concealed weapon permit but you can carry a firearm on your person as long as its in full view and not concealled. jules said it the best if wirth would have beat them up hed still be in trouble, makes you think about the judicial system giving people like peters a chance to continue to break the law with no penaltys. what should be done about cops and others working in the government that think they are above law. again my heart goes out to all the families involved. none of this should of happened. but i think im going into the rock bottom this weekend to grab all the girls butts i can a nd it should be fine as long as itis in a playful manner

TO MANDY, "CORRECTION" should do the same and stop badgering those that think differently than she/he does on this website. If she/he can't do that, then she/he should get off!

Brennan,
I didn't feel he was badgering. He just seemed to be stating some facts.. I know its hard to discern peoples attitudes when it comes to writing; but you seemed to have a little more of it; thats all.

Okay woodman I'm a dude, go find yourself another honey. I don't know what you want me to Get. What are you not understanding here. You and Brennan have bad attitudes because WE don't care what you think. NO matter how hard you try to convince YOURSELVES WIRTH WAS WRONG. IN EVERYTHING HE DID THAT NIGHT TWO PEOPLE ARE DEAD AND HE'S GOING TO PRISON.
UNDERSTAND THAT, THE COURTS ALL DUE, WIRTH DOES. THE ONLY ONES THAT DON'T ARE YOU TWO SILLY BOYS.

CAN YOU TWO UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mandy, thank you, some of these guys get nasty.

Whoa,
Pinching a person's ass is 4th degree assault? OMG, they'd have to arrest half the population on a daily basis. I didn't even know assault had that many degrees. I read the story again and of course he needs to be locked up for good, because he obviously has no self-control whatsoever. But it looks like the boyfriend was actually still trying to get Wirth to fight even when he was pointing the gun at him and Wirth was trying to get him to leave. He was probably shit-faced drunk. A good reason not to live dangerously.

Correction,
Hey no problem.. I feel like I keep sticking up for you on alot of these stories :-) Great minds think alike. Lets just call it intelligence.. that oughta piss em off! I know everyone wants to be right; I do too, but you don't have to get hostile when someone disagrees! Oh well. Silly boys!

You cannot shoot someone for grabbing your ass or physically fighting you! If Gregg had a weapon you guys might have a point but he DIDN"T so your arguements are null and VOID.I'd like to think that most people in our society have common sense unlike many on this board. Thank GOD that you people are the small minority and probably live in trailer parks with your ignorant mentality's.

That is ridiculous to think that someone would shoot you for pinching their ass or trying to fight them. Wirth could have walked away. He's not even supposed to have a gun. But Greg was totally dumb to continue to badger him after he saw the gun. Greg didn't know he had a gun until they got outside.

Ben Woodmen I do believe you are out numbered here. So who do you think should shut up and go away. YOU SHOULD. BYE

REMINDER to anyone that carrys a gun..you better be damn sure of when to use it and be ready to pay the consequences if the shooting is not justified. I used to work uniformed security and I chose NOT to carry a firearm for that reason..I was content with a baton and pepper spray. Pepper spray hurts like a sob but at least you live to see the next day.

Rocki..you can't go by what people say on this board..alot of people are spewing nonsense and are making things up. If Peters was supposedly badgering Wirth why did the paramedic testify that Peters told him that he begged Wirth not to shoot him? Was the paramedic lying? Nobody knows what happened that night but I know for a FACT you cannot shoot someone for pinching your ass or fighting you..It's common sense. But yet we have some on here that are somehow trying to justify Wirth's actions.

fathead,
Oh thanks but I realize there is no way you can justify shooting someone for pinching your ass. The story makes it look like Peters was still egging him on even after he pulled out the gun. Possibly he begged him not to shoot him because he shot Jennifer first and Peters saw it? Doesn't say. But Peters was totally stupid to continue to try to fight him after he pulled out the gun, but....he was probably extremely drunk. But no one should be even taking a gun to a bar and to use it on un-armed people? That's just horrible. I'm sure he's getting lock up for good anyhow. It's still no excuse to shoot someone.

rocki your pounding sand just stop. Why would Peters continue trying to fight after the gun was pulled on him? He was shot twice. Read the story the paramedic and one other eye witness testified that Wirth shot Peters while he begged for his life.

rocki...where are you getting that from that Peters continued to fight Wirth even after he saw the gun? You are stating that like it is a fact and that has not been proven. Does anyone even have proof that Peters got physical with Wirth ..NO! it's all hearsay on this board and people need to stop saying things as if they are facts.

Here it is, you guys are smarter than the news. But for what it's worth.
1) Peter's did not come back alone. The GROUP DID.
2) Wirth PULLED the GUN FIRST
3)Wirth told Peter's stop being STUPID.
4)Wirth was holding the gun on Peter's while telling Peter's that.
5)Wirth shoots Peter's first.
6)After shooting Peter's taking down his only threat, he goes and shoots Jenni POINT BLANK IN THE CHEST.
7)Wirth was not happy with shooting both of the victims. He shoots Peter's three times while Peter's is begging for him not to shoot him again.
That's what happened.

Witnesses took the stand, saying Luick had playfully grabbed Wirth's rear end in a bar.

"He turned and really glared at her," said Carol M. Blasier. "Jenni could tell that he was upset."

Witnesses say that Luick and Peters left the bar, but returned. Tensions escalated, and the group went outside.

That's when, one witness said, Wirth pulled out a gun.

"The man with the gun said, 'stop being so f'ing stupid,' " said witness Brian Trader.

Witnesses say Wirth shot Peters first, then Luick, point blank.

Peters was still alive when paramedics arrived.

"He said, 'He shot me three times. I begged him not to, but he shot me three times,' " said paramedic

This is why I said that, from the story above:

"Witnesses say they saw Peters and Wirth struggling and Wirth pointing a gun at him. Wirth seemed reluctant to fight. "The man with the gun told him to quit being so stupid," witness Brian Trader said."

Makes it look like Peters was still trying to fight him even after the gun was pulled out.

I don't care what happened anyhow, you still can't just shoot people are friggin' standing in front of you bothering you or pinching your ass. And the stupid thing is he shot Peters 3 times and was surprised that he was dead. Wirth's head must be completely empty.

Rocki I did not read anything that said Peter's and Wirth were struggling. "Tensions escalated" May look like, that was never said. I just have to ask, does your name have a J in it?

saywhat,

This is a statement I copied directly from the story above, just scroll up.:

"Witnesses say they saw Peters and Wirth struggling and Wirth pointing a gun at him. Wirth seemed reluctant to fight. "The man with the gun told him to quit being so stupid," witness Brian Trader said."

No I'm not Justin. I just am trying to make the point that guns an alcohol do not mix. Look at all the professional athletes that have gone down this way. They need to start having metal detectors in bars, they are already in schools, should have been in bars first. Normally, I would never argue with a guy who was pointing a gun at me. If I was drunk I might.

wirth didnt shoot her point blank in the chest the buulet went through peters and struck her in the chest because she was in the middle of the fight which is right were she didnt need to be seems she brought all of this on by a night of poor judgements. its sad that the stupidity of one typical weak woman has ruined the three families including her child. wirth has no record from pennsylvania or wisconsin except traffic infractions. peters record speaks for itself, and she was out with a guy she was so afraid of she used the law to keep him away. if it would have been the other way aound they would have said that with go exactly what he deserved. but her being a cop and him a informant oh ya thats what i said now everything they did that night is justified. why didnt she use her weapon cops r supposed to carry at all timesw to protect the public noy cause shootings

Ben,
Hey man, come on! :-) You can't lump all women together like that. Not all of us women are typically weak!

Oh, I didn't know all that about Peters & her. All three are about lame and this would have eventually happened anyhow when you get people like that together. It was just a matter of time but there's no shortage of totally stupid people just like the three of them. Maybe them meeting up saved other innocent people, sounds like the three of them were meant for each other.

"correction" let it go, JEEZ!. We all have a right to our opinions and yours is not necessarily correct.

mandy yes most women are weak that is why they bail out,see again,love,or flat out make stupid decisions about the men who hurt them. if a man hits u beats you or mentally abuses you he dont love you. men should not abuse women but if the women stopped going back to the men maybe the men would learn not to hit a woman because they would get sick of being alone. and to the abusive men you need to stop the stupid act. and to the women who think its cute when your man protects you especially over a stupid action that you the women caused bad shit can happpen. i think im done responding to u citezens. we will hear all the truths about that night in the trial. so if you bleeding hearts have the guts to be there you will see me i will be the biggest person there waiting for justice. wirth should be punished for his actions but not in prison for the rest of his life. what ever the sentence it should be cut down by a third because all three were to blame maybe jenny more than the other two it was her stupidity that caused the problem. let this be a lesson to everyone who cant take responsibility for there actions DONT MESS WITH A CLUBBER THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU AND YOU SHOULDNT CARE ABOUT THEM. THEY LEAD A DIFFERENT LIFE AND FOR PEOPLE WHO DONT UNDERSTAND THAT SHOULD STAY AWAY WITH IS NOT THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS AS IS THE CASE WITH 99PERCENT OF CLUB MEMBER AND CITEZEN PROBLEMS I BOUNCED IN A BAR WERE DIABLO LOBOS VISIT OFTEN AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THEM EVEN WHEN I HAD TO REMOVE THEM FROM THE BAR. THEY ARE VETS AND ALL AROUND GOOD GUYS. THAT IS WHAT THEY EXPECT FROM ALL MEMBERS. I ALSO FOUND OUT WIRTH WAS NOT A FULL MEMBER OF THE CLUB JUST ANOTHER LIE FROM THE NEWS AGENCIES

Ben, just because a few women are in abusive relationships does not mean that women, especially all, are weak. I've seen plenty of men go back to relationships that weren't necessarily physically abusive, but emotionally. Can I sit back and call all men weak? No. It just means that some people can't step away from the relationship for whatever reasons. This story doesn't necessarily mean that Jenni was weak either. You obviously have some woman issues that you need to address and this is not the place. Go see a therapist, or get out more. I assure you that one day, you will come across a woman that is mentally stronger than you.

Ben,

Ok now its becoming irritating... Yeah some women ARE weak; and they allow men to abuse them.. But you are making an assumption about "Most" women.. and I'm just saying, you shouldn't. Growing up, I lived with my mother and her many abusive boyfriends/husbands; and I think when you grow up and start a life of your own, you have basically two choices.. 1. Accept that women are weak and should be treated in the same fashion, and continue the pattern; or 2. Understand that its not right. and believe just b/c you are a woman doesn't mean you have to be weak and succumb to that lifestyle. Sounds like to me maybe some women in your life have been weak.. and you've made the assumption that thats how it is. I don't know you, though.. just sayin'.

ben,
I am a woman. I am the oldest of 6 children. We were so poor, I had only 2 outfits to wear for half of 4th grade and switched them each day. My father killed himself when I was 13 years old. I have worked part time and gone to school since I was 15. I had 2 jobs sometimes in college and after. I bought my mother a car when she didn't have one. I have a wonderful husband, we share everything 50/50. Please keep saying most women are weak, it makes me chuckle.

concerned citizen i have been happily married for almost 20 years my wife is a strong beautiful women who was in a abusive relationship and left her first husband. my mom was also abused by my father back in the early 70s and she left so i dont think all women are weak but the ones who continue to go back to the abuse are the ones who need a therapist not me. and here u go again talking about things you know nothing about just like the vile you speak about the case at hand. if you were a coincerned citizen you would educatpe people like luick on how to act in publuc remember it wasnt the big bad biker putting his hands on girls butts. a witness also said in court that she was touching men on the front side also but that is ok as long as it is in a playful manner. luick was the problem that night and now others than her have to live with her poor actions. how would you feel if someone touched you when you didnt want to bo touched. she also said to wirth to calm down because they were in jefferson and her actions were alright. now a law enforcement officer thinks the town of jefferson allows sexual assault as long as it is in a playful manner. you cant justify her actions she was wrong and that is all there is. and now wirth has to live with the fact he took two lives wich is not a memory i would wish upon anyone no matter what the circumstances. she over stepped her bounds as a police officer and a human living among society.

Ben..People should go into bars to have fun..not have warning signs all over them that says "don't you dare mess with me". If you don't like to socialize and just want to be a bad ass 24-7 stay home or stay at the clubhouse or whatever.

Ben,

I'm pretty sure no one here is arguing your point about this specific situation.. For the most part everyone agrees that she was in the wrong.. hell yes she was! BUT, you rub people the wrong way (especially women) when you make such broad assumptions.

Wow. Still talking about this? Ben, I asked the question whether Luick was caught in the crossfire, but there was nothing reported. It is just as likely she WAS shot point blank, from the descriptions/eyewitness accounts. It sounds like some witnesses came forward.

Ben, if you would go back and read what I had said before, I completely agree she was in the wrong. I have sort of been arguing in Wirth's defense this whole time. I still don't think that you can judge whether she was emotionally weak or strong just by this incident.

ben, you have the right to you opinion. So do we. My opinion is Jennifer pinched his Butt, thats a NO NO. Wirth had a gun. That looking for trouble.Jennifer was not hit in crossfire, she was shot point blank in the chest. If I bump you in the grocery store with my basket, does mean you can hit me with a can of peas? Mrs.M "Please don't single out people just to put them down. That's not what we are doing here?"

I wouldn't want a girlfriend who ran around grabbing strange guy's asses in the first place. So, the boyfriend wasn't right to begin with, which is further evidenced by his wanting to pick a fight with the one guy who didn't appreciate having his ass grabbed by a strange woman.

It's unfortunate that the guy he picked a fight with happened to be a gun-toting sociopath.

You know, I was pretty much done commenting on this story, until I saw Ben's comment. Who are you to judge anyone? Do you know what goes thru the minds of women or men that are in any type of abusive relationship? Have you ever been in one? They are not weak, as you say. Most are afraid that if they do leave, they will be killed, which actually happens more often than not. The abuser not only detroys their body, but their minds as well. That is what abusers do, they break down people so they can control them, in whatever fashion they can. That does not mean the person is weak or weak-minded. It could happen to anyone, no matter how "strong" they think they are or how many times they say it won't or can't. In a lot of those relationships, there are children involved. Now, you stated that you are married, do you have children? What if the abuser threatened to kill your children if you left? What then? Oh you can say you would leave, go to the cops or perhaps even a shelter. But you have no idea what you would really do until you yourself are put in that situation. I was abused as a child by my biological father as was my older sister. He beat us both with his army issued belt, his fist, and even kicked us. My mom tried to interfer and got knocked almost completely out for her actions. Soon after she left him. But that didn't stop him. We had to spend summers with him and he did it a few more times. We told out mom who told the courts, but they didn't do anything. On top of the physical abuse, we suffered mental and emotional abuse by him and our step-mother. Still, we were forced to spend summers with him. It finally stopped when my mom went against the court order and didn't force us to go back the summer I turned 10. When I was older, I was in a physical, emotional, and mentally abusive relationship. Did it start out that way? Hell no or else I would have been out of there. It started a couple of years later and wasn't very noticable at first. Just kinda joking that I looked "fat" in something or I shouldn't hang out with that person or this person. Then the beatings started. At first, I was completely shocked. I had known him for 10 years or so and none of his previous girlfriends said anything. Even after I asked them, they always said he didn't abuse them. I later found out that they were too scared of him to tell me then truth. This went on for about a year. He had broken me down so much that I started to believe him when he said I was fat, ugly, worthless, and no other guy in his right mind would ever want me and I was afraid if I left him, he would kill me that time as he had tried several times before. What finally made me get up the courage to leave him was the day I thought I might be pregnant from the rapings (no it wasn't sex at this point because he took whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and the more I put up a fight, the more he would hurt me). I knew I couldn't have a child in that. Thank God I found out later that I wasn't. I didn't go back to him, no matter how much he tried. I had to eventually move away, change my cell number and my email and was constanly on guard. Now, I have a 4 year old little girl and am married to the man of my dreams. Do I think I was weak? No actually I think I was strong. Strong because I endured that for so long, but never gave up the hope that I would get out alive and God would protect me. My faith kept me strong enough to wait for the perfect oppurtunity to leave.

Now, if you want to sit there and judge me, that's fine, your entitled to your opinion. I really don't care what you think of me or my past. But to sit there and say "most women are weak" when, I'm sorry you don't know "most" women and you have no idea what they have lived thru, that just pisses me off. And what if your wife had weent back? What if your mom had went back? Even just once or twice? Does that make them weak? Would you say that to their faces? Love and fear can make people do crazy things that most people don't understand, don't want to understand, have no idea what its like, and sit there and say "oh I wouldn't do that." But the fact is, until you have lived thru a hell like that, do not sit in judgement on others. If I were to do that, I would say your an alcoholic or steriod freak or violence lover because that's my experience with "some" bouncers/ former bouncers that I have known. Are they all that way? No, but some of them were.

Sorry to get off subject and my little rant, but that just really pissed me off.

MARIE I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR PAST RELATIONSHIPS YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT ABOUT ABUSED WOMEN. IF YOU WOUD SATAND UP TO THE MEN THAT TREAT U LIKE CRAP LIKE YOU STOOD UP TO ME YOU WOULDNT HAVE TAKEN OFFENSE TO THE WEAK WOMAN COMMENT. LIKE I SAID I GREW UP WITH THE ABUSE AND I MARRIED A WOMAN WHO WAS ABUSED BY HER FIRST HUSBAND SO I GUESS I MIGHT KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT THE SUBJECT. YOU CAN TRY TO PUSH BUTTONS WITH ME ABOUT STEROIDS BUT IF YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU WOULD KNOW IM A GUY WHO HAS NEVER LIFTED WEIGHTS IN MY LIFE. BUT THAT IS JUST LIKE A ABUSED WOMAN TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE BUT WILL MAKE EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE FOR THEIR ABUSERS. SO DO ME A FAVOR AND DONT RESPOND ANYMORE UNTIL THE TRIAL WHEN WE CAN ALL HERE THE TRUTH. I WAS JUST THINKING THAT JENNYS FUNERAL WAS ALL OVER THE NEWS BUT NOT ONE THING ABOUT GREGG PETERS COULD THAT BE BECAUSE THE POLICE ARE EMBARRASED ABOUT HER DEALINGS WITH GREGG PETERS

fathead why should wirth have to stay out of public places? he wasnt the one causing the problem, luick was, wirth lived near that bar and never had a issue, until the happy handed luick and her abusive boyfriend with a huge criminal record thought it would be fun to mess with the public and a person with tats and a biker vest, which should have been their first sign that he would not take any crap. but maybe that is what she wanted maybe she started with wirth to get peters beat up. in that case she broke three or more laws that night. and luicks friend said all four were out that night drinking and having fun but nobody said anything about a disignated driver maybe she and her friends broke the drunk driving laws also she and her friends seem to have as little regard for the law as it seems wirth did. but nobdy will say any of that for fear of reprocussions from the law. just because luick and peters got the short end of the stick that night doesnt mean thatt they were right by any extent of normal thinking. so for all u bleeding heart weaklings i hope you all show up in court to see the truth about this case then we can all speak a little more knowledgeable about what happened LOOK FORWRAD TO SEEING ALL OF YOU THERE

Ben ..all of that does not matter. Peters past does not matter at all. The fact is Gregg went outside to fight Wirth fair and square and Wirth pulled out a gun and killed him..YOU CAN"T DO THAT! So what if Peters was abusive..Wirth didn't know that. He would have shot Peters if he was record free or was a felon or whatever. Peters had no weapon on him and for that Wirth will go away for life.

My question to you Ben is why did Wirth pull his weapon? If you think he could have handled Peters..why didn't he?? If that would have happened Gregg Peters would still be alive today..Peters was willing to fight fair..why not Wirth???

Ben,

If you knew anything about abuse, you would know that "standing" up to the abuser only makes them more mad which therefor makes them abuse even more. And where in my comment did you ever hear me make an excuse for the bastard that did that to me? I never once said anything remotely close to that. What I said was I was afraid he was going to kill me, which he almost did more than once. So I guess you would say, and I'm sure you will with your line of thinking, that that was just an excuse I made for him. I didn't keep going back to him, he never really let me out of his sight. He had a tracking device in my car, which I didn't know about til after I left him. He called me whenever he was at work and if I didn't answer right away, I "got it" when he got home. I was fearful for my life, as are many abused people. Your wife got out, I'm glad for her. Your mom got out, I'm glad for her too. But some can't and to sit there and call them weak is just sick. As for the steriod comment, I wasn't tryin to push your buttons, but obviously it did. I just did the same thing you did. You made a judgement against "most women" being weak, is it not fair for someone to say that "SOME" of the bouncers they know are steriod freaks? I didn't say all, so that didn't nessecarily apply to you, now did it? I don't know you and from the way you talk, I'm damn glad I don't. And while on the subject of not knowing you, you said "if you knew what you were talking about you would know I'm a guy who has never lifted weights in my life." How in the heck would I know that? Oh, that's right, because I don't know you. Just like you don't know "most" women. So for you to sit there and try to judge most women, well that would be like me saying most bouncers are on steriods, which I didn't. I said some of the ones I know, not most or all. And yea, I do agree, you do know a little about the subject. But it should have said "I know LITTLE on the subject." Knowing one or two or even five people who were abused doesn't make you an expert. Try talkin to hundreds and then tell me you know a little on the subject. But that's just like a man, who thinks most women are weak, to think he knows more than he actually does.

Oh, and by the way, typing in all capitols doesn't do anything but make you look like an ass. But I will do you one small favor, this will be the last comment I make to you, unless of course your going to attack me again. So practice what you preach and don't reply back. You don't care about my past? Then it shouldn't be a big problem not to respond back.

If most women are weak, then why does it take one well placed kick to bring a man to his knees? And how many men could give birth? Abused or not, women aren't weak!

And that's coming from a guy! Sorry, just thought that comment was extremely sexist and judgemental. Ladies, not all guys think like ben! Most of us know your stronger than us, we are just too insecure to admit we are weaker!

Can people please stay on topic and talk about things that relate to this case. I don't care if you were abused or whatever.

fathead you dont know that peters was willing to fight fair they said 5 shots fired wirth only fired 3 like i said wait till the trial and then talk about what happened

Ben, are you actually trying to tell me that you think Peters might have had a gun?? LOL!LOL! what are you smoking? The only person that had a gun that night was Wirth..that has been verified. Luick didn't have a weapon on her either even though she could have being an officer. WOW..you have lost all credibility with that statement.

Ben if I may ask, did you personally know Wirth? For what reason is he carrying a gun in Jefferson/Mayberry Wisconsin??

Ben,
I agree with your postings. Don't let the others on here get to you. That Marie Heck woman sounds like she's got some mental issues. Will you be able to go to court so that those of us that can't will get the straight facts? If you can, will you post what happens in court on here? We all know the media won't report everything that happens. There's no way that Wirth is going to get life in prison. I'm guessing 25 years and actually serving 10-15. What do you think?

reading all these posts makes me angry. in my opinion i dont think gregg or jenni deserved to die. no one deserves to die. jenni has a life so therefore has the right to go out with her boyfriend for the night if she wishes. on the other hand, people do some pretty stupid things but the consequences for jennis action was compeletly delt with the wrong way. as for gregg peters and jenni, they were both nice people. i dont understand how people on here can be so judge mental when it comes to others they probably never met in their lives..let alone talked too. Granted, andrew probably was a very respectable child..times have changed..he proved that to us. maybe things went wrong in his life but still its hard to believe what he did. in my opinion, i feel that people should maybe stop being so hypocrittical and think what could've went so wrong in someone's life that they had to committ these acts of violence. and another thing..something i learned back in kindergarten..treat others the way you want to be treated..so trash talking gregg, jenni and even andrew in my perspective is showing a low self confidence..i think we should take into account the families and friends are the ones that really lost something here.

I honestly cannot believe the same people are repeating the SAME opinions they already put forth enough times to let it rest. What is it about this particular story that encouraged 400+ comments? It isn't that exciting, and justice appears to be properly being served. Seriously though, I really doubt Peter's record is going to withstand all the obvious objections in court. It's irrelevant. You're suggesting that Wirth could somehow intuitively sense how dangerous Peters supposedly was. If Luick had overlooked the restraining order, that's between them anyway. It has nothing to do with this case.

Christmastime Ben
with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide WHEN
he's convicted and sentenced, thats two counts of life in prison. That Sucks!

Christmastime Said:
I'm guessing 25 years and actually serving 10-15. What do you think?
Wirth will be leaving prison in a body bag.

Christmastime,

I may have "mental issues" but at least I don't think killing two people is justifiable or that wirth did this in self-defense. This is my last comment on this story. Its over and done with. Wirth is going to prison and hopefully won't ever leave unless in a body bag, like Crazy said.

My final comments as well..Rest in peace Gregg Peters and Jennifer Luick.

marie heck,
I wouldn't bother replying to that with a straight comment. This christmastime is highly suspect as well. Notice how he says you have mental problems. Then he asks ben to go to court, I believe he is actually taking a jab at ben, accusing him of being a know-it-all and finally he takes a jab at Pete, stating that the media doesn't report the whole truth. A very sneaky way to insult 3 people at one time without their knowledge and then sit back and laugh.

As a family member of Andy's, I have been monitoring this site since I gathered the strength to view things about the terrible tragedy. I will only post once and not respond to comments only b/c the tragedy is so close to me. This post will not comment on the particular case, as the trial will allow for the details. Furthermore, I am impressed with the ability that some of you have to be truely objective by realizing the events of that night do not correlate with intentional homicide. Knowing what I know about Andrew, his statement, and the evidence (including witnesses), I am at peace knowing that time will allow for the events to be known. Anyway, until events can be known to the public thru the trial, I feel the need to comment on Andrew (as most comments on here about his character are speculations).

I have had the wonderful experience of growing up with Andrew and seeing him grow thru life experiences and challenges. Andrew is an amazing son, brother, uncle, friend, and person. As with most individuals, Andrew has made mistakes in his life. Mistakes that make him who he is, as it is a reality that life experiences mold people. Andrew's biggest strength happens to also be his biggest weakness at times, which is his honesty. Andrew has always surprised people with his honesty, as he will always let you know what he thinks or how he feels. Some people cannot handle the truth and become offended by Andrew. I, however, have embraced his honesty. It is refreshing to have a support that is strong enough to challenge you as an individual. He has and continues to give others in his life strength.

This post regarding Andrew's character may offend some, as it may appear that this post is "excusing" events of that evening. I feel the need to make everyone aware of these character traits of Andrew, as it surprises me that there have not been discussions about Andrew's honesty with the case. Andrew's emotional response and cooperation following the tragedy speak for Andrew's character. Andrew and my family realize that there are two lives lost due to events of that evening. Since no one can change what happened, it is our hope that people can learn from the facts of the tragedy.

I thank everyone for reading this post with an open mind. I know that some might think that me not responding anymore on this post may appear cowardly, but I know too much about Andrew and the case to be posting about the case until after the trial.

Time Will Tell,

Thanks for sharing on this site. I hope the best for your family.

Well so much has been said already. I read a little about this case and found it interesting how many different opinions there are about this story. I was always told growing up everyone has some good in them no matter who they are or what they have done. Mr. Wirth may have some good in him, we all do. In my opinion there is no excuse for killing a person.2 When a person is defending themselves, he should have used a cell phone, not a gun. Jennifer should have know better not because she was an off duty police officer, but because you just don't get into another person's space. Again, Wirth should have used a cell phone not a gun. Thanks for letting me share

http://vodpod.com/watch/2706564-pervert-fail-man-arrested-for-pinching-female-cops-butt-inside-store

Help me understand what your point is Truthiness? I truly believe that Jennifer should have never pinched Wirth or anyone on the Butt. Showing us this video are you “telling us that Jennifer deserves to be shot and murdered?”Or should she have been arrest for sexual assault like the man in the video? Strange don't you thank he wasn't shot to death? He was arrested! If that's the case for pinching a Butt, I sure wish that Jennifer had been arrested, don't you?

Sorry everyone I just wanted to see if I could copy the webaddress for my Uncle.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2706564-pervert-fail-man-arrested-for-pinching-female-cops-butt-inside-store

What if, after the man pinched the woman's butt, his large boyfriend took the woman outside so they could beat her up? That would be more similar to Jennifer Luick did.

its sad everyone is so full of hate.

Unless you were there you don't know, the truth will come out.

It has nothing to do with a weak woman or not weak.

It was those three personalities and three sad decisions.

Please stop posting/speculating until all the information on the case in brought forth.

truthiness what if the sky was falling? Sad the truth will come out,just wish Jennifer and Gragg were alive to tell it.

this is all becoming quite crazy. If you were not there you do not know what happened. If you do not know the people you don't know how they are. It is sad the 2 lives were lost because of something so stupid, but there is nothing that ANYONE can do now. I know andy and I can not believe he would do something like this, but hey everyday brings something new and maybe for some reason he thought he had to use a gun,, personally I think all guns should be taken and disposed of but I can not do anything about that.
It is a shame that a young kid has to spend possibly the rest of his life behind bars because a woman pinching him in the but and then telling her boyfriend about the incident and then the bf wanting to fight the guy.. that is not right.. the bf should have yelled at the gf and went on there merry way. But that did not happen. So I am sorry for the lives lost here but Andy is not a bad boy!!! And I am sure that the bf and gf were nice ppl too but this is alll sooooooooooooo sad.

May god be with the bf and gf and andy too.

yes and Andy did come from Pa at one time!!

Thank goodness someone gave that skank and her bully boyfriend exactly what they deserved.

But Greg won't be asking anyone "to step outside" anymore, and that dirty lawbreaking coppette won't be sexually assaulting anyone anymore either.

The only thing that would have made this turn out perfect, would have been if the murderer would have finished by shooting himself. There would have been three useless pieces of garbage gone, instead of just two.

God Bless You All

before you all continue to make assumptions... do your homework on the two initiating the problem. One a female cop sexually assulting mutiple people that night(unacceptable for anyone). then the other person going after a fight one(greg) who already had a restaining order on him by his dear friend Jenny (someone with an anger problem) why arent we addressing that? Do any of you know if peters and luick had weapons??? Andrew had a speeding ticket ... what I am saying is... before making ugly statements get all the facts..

fathead why wouldnt peters or luick have a gun she was a cop and supposed to hold up the law. the first reports of the incident on the news was they believed she pulled her weapon and never announced she was a cop.And that was a early sunday morning report the news said that info came from a cop that responded. maybe a little coverup because a drunk,happy handed,police officer pulled her weapon. peters had a record a mile long for battery and related charges. and there has been nothing verified about that night it is still all speculation. yes i did now wirth i said earlier that i worked with him at bucyrus, so pay attention so you can respond with some intelligence. i was in a local harley dealership last weekend and over heard two occonomowoc officers talking about the case and they said they knew that peters would be luicks downfall, and that they never shoiuld let that 911 operator becomne a cop because she didnt respect the job.again the facts are if she followed the restraing order, kept her hands to herself,and kept walking instead of telling peters to beat up wirth over a name calling and a bad look,which she d3eserved, none of this would have happened. she was irresponsible in her actions and now three families will suffer for the rest of their lives. two are dead and one young man will spend the rest of his life in jail. over a public servants actions. what if wirth didnt have a gun maybe peters would have killed him, with the record peters has that is a possibility. the cover up so far just proves that the cops are the biggest gang in the country and have nobody to police them. they will protect their own at all costs just like a bike club.

Does anyone know any updates about this case or the trial? I was told the trial was supposed to be Jan 14.

Gina. Arraignment was Jan 14. Pretrial conference is Feb 17

I'm praying that Wirth has a good attorney. I don't think that he should have to spend the rest of his life in jail. I have said it many times before that i believe this is a case of self defense. Please pray for Wirth, his family and the children of the deceased.

the parmedic that treated peters was fired over what he did that night and now i here he committed suicide

Ben, what exactly did that paramedic do? I don't remember any details on this.

The "keep your hands to yourself rule" applies across the sex line. Now, murder is a little overboard yes. But if Officer wasnt being a slut and boyfriend didnt want to make a big deal of it, everyone would be alive and happy. TAZER TAZER, OUT OUT OUT!

If you believe that pinching someone’s butt is punishable by death… if you think it’s right for a bunch of morons to then write complete crap about it… if it seems right to call her names and write slanderous things about her… then you’re mistake is far greater than hers and YOU’RE AN IDIOT! Perhaps you deserve a ridiculous punishment as well??? I’m so disappointed that so many assholes live around here and they’re not afraid to proclaim their stupidity publicly. Shame on all of you for your negative comments!

I’ve been so disgusted that we lost Officer Jenni over something so stupid. I still get SO ANGRY every time I see a police car because it reminds me of this senseless loss of life.
One thing makes me angrier--the stupid comments from this site! The only thing that makes less sense is how so many people could be so ill-mannered and cold hearted with terrible comments. I feel sorry for you that you don’t know any better! I feel sorry for everyone subject to your idiocy. Shame!

If Wirth didn't have a gun on him none of this would have happened! I love how people are somehow trying to justify wirth having a weapon..it's ILLEGAL in wisconsin. Wirth is guilty of more than a speeding ticket..he's also guilty of illegally possesing a firearm. I'm sure Peters was willing to go home with just bruises..not gunshots. Peters incidents with the law were mainly with the DNR..the guy got tickets for hunting violations. People are trying to make him into some sort of thug or something.

Heres the irony in all of this. Wirth killed two people because he got his a$s grabbed..now he's going somewhere where that as% is gonna get grabbed and pounded.

To Your an Idiot:

You have every right to feel pain for the loss of Officer Jenni "over something so stupid". You are completly right when you say that people should not being talking negatively about her. Negative comments can be defined by judgemental statements, prejudice statements, or comments that involve name calling. It is also fair to say that some of the FACTS of the evening do not demonstrate that Officer Jenni was abiding my the law in multiple ways, thus contributing to the sad tragedy.

On the other side of the tragedy, it is not fair to hold the same fair approach for Mr. Wirth. Mr. Wirth has cooperated with the legal system since this terrible tragedy (turned around with intent to turn himself in; notified police of the weapon; spoke with detective and was unable to focus on anything but the status of the "kid"; requested to speak to the detective again once it sunk in that there was a second victim; questioned status again of first victim and then of second victim), he continues to cooperate with the legal system (and openly apologized to deputies involved in restraint due to "emotional outburst" and expressed his difficulty was hearing the charges made him breakdown) and has expressed and demonstrated EXTREME REMORSE during the course of this tragedy.

Reality is that two people are dead due to the terrible events, on both sides, of that night. Reality is also that Mr. Wirth is struggling with the emotional difficulty that two people lost their lives because he was pushed until he felt so threatened that he shot to save himself. He is okay with himself only b/c he knows he reacted due to the level of aggression that was demonstrated by Mr. Peters that evening.

Time will definately tell, but you should stop reading these comments as you are having apparent grieving difficulties. Don't feel so much anger about the people on this site that state truly mean and irrevalant things about Officer Jenni. That approach is not only wrong, but hurtful. But also remember, the truth must be accepted for healthy grieving. If you continue to view the tragedy as an officer losing her life over a pinched butt, your grief will continue to be anger (but also deep pain). This tragedy occurred b/c Mr. Peters and Officer Jenni did not stop pushing an already bad situation that Officer Jenni initiated and also b/c Mr. Peters made Mr. Wirth feel his life was threatened. Mr. Wirth attempted to end it with words.

Think about how many people you know that will not walk away from an offer to "step outside" due to pride. I know Mr. Wirth and am related to him. I speak with him regularly since this has happended and I know for a fact that Mr. Wirth did not intend for anyone to have lost their lives. I can also tell you that time will allow for the facts to be known, and that should help with your pain and anger.

Correction to previous entry.

second paragraph: I meant to say that "It IS only fair to hold the same fair approach" for Mr. Wirth.

FATHEAD - You can read right? NO, Gregg did not just have hunting violations on his record. Did you overlook the TWO Domestic Abuse charges on two different women? Maybe you should go back and read the thug Gregg's criminal history again. Read very carefully this time!!!!

Time will tell..how do you justify Wirth shooting Peters? Did peters have a gun..NO! Was Wirth so scared of taking a punch that he thought he might be killed. How many bar fights are there around this country on a nightly basis and nobody gets shot..thousands. Peters wanted to fight wirth..not kill him. How do you justify Wirth carrying a gun? What is he carrying a gun for? You want to paint him as some victim but the facts are the facts..Wirth took it to an extreme level and will pay the price for it. Why does he have a tattoo of nothing to lose on his neck? Normal people don't put stuff like that on themselves.

Does anyone know why the paramedic was fired and any details of the suicide. His name was Jeffrey Seinke and he was 46 yrs old.

Waht does Peters past relationships have to do with that night? I gaurantee that will not be brought up in court because it has nothing to do with this case. I will some up this case for you..Peters=no gun,knife,pipe,bottle. Wirth=gets challenged to a fight,pulls out gun and starts shooting. Two people dead because of his dumb decision.

Time Will Tell,

Thanks for sharing some information about Andrew with us. I could tell right from the begining that he is an honest person and that he felt horrible about the accidental killing of two people in self defense. Myself and many others on this site feel that he should not be charged with 1st Degree Intentional Homicide. I feel bad for the victims family members, and also Andrew and his family members. Three lives were ruined that night. Hopefully, Andrew will have a chance to get his back. I hope that Andrew has a great attorney that will point out some necessary things about that night to a jury. I also hope that there is a way to prove how violent Gregg Peters was by pulling his criminal record into trial.

When you talk to Mr. Wirth next, please tell him to hang in there. And let him know that there are a lot of people pulling for him and praying for him.

Please keep us updated (when you can) about the trial.

Fathead, why wouldn't Peters' past be brought up in trial? It's not like a person's history doesn't paint a picture of who they are, at least in the eyes of the law and a jury. It makes complete sense that his past would be brought to court to show what kind of person he was and how he might have been acting that night. A judge may dismiss it and not allow it, but I don't think that is likely.

Also, summing up the case isn't really fair when all you say is that Peters didn't have a gun and Wirth did. There is obviously a lot more to the story, including the beginning of it all when Jenni sexually assaulted a bar patron. Yet, you want to dismiss that becuase it's more complicated than just the butt grab? Your theory doesn't make sense to me. I understand that you have a personal interest in this case. I apologize, but the person above is right, for you to be able to heal, you will have to drop your anger. You might even want to seek some counseling. Maybe an outside perspective can help you understand that blame doesn't help your situation.

Fathead,

I have truly avoided commenting to you due to the biased,negative approach you have taken with your comments. You appear to be a person that has difficulty objectively looking at situations that elicit strong emotions, so I do not take my time to address individuals with similar approaches to your approach.

BUT, I have had enough. You have not only demonstrated a irrational thought process when commenting, but you are demonstrating you have your own issues with displaced anger.

So, here is your problem. You continue to think that an individual can feel threatened by individuals that only have weapons. Not true. Furthermore, it is only speculation that Peters and Officer "MAY NOT HAVE had WEAPONS" (I say "may not" b/c the trial has not occured yet to actually show the multiple factors that made Mr. Wirth feel threatened). Also, correct me if I am wrong...individuals feel threatened by different things. What may threaten another individual may not threaten a different individual. As others have already commented, Peters aggressive history and size as an individual is revelent to the case b/c that will demonstrate the level of aggression Peters has potential to display. Lets say what reality is...Peters record already shows that he is aggressive enough to physically hurt women. We all know that Peters was a big individual, thus his anger and aggression issues show that he cannot control his aggression enough not to hurt women. Says A LOT about his character and aggression issues.

Why I have wasted my energyj on addressing your negative comments is due to the comment you made that "what normal person has a tatoo that says Nothing to Lose". Let me elaborate, being Mr. Wirth's older sister, I also embrace the belief "Everyone has nothing to lose", MEANING, life can be taken from you in a second, thus embrace and life for everyday. SO DO NOT ASSUME that Andrew is not normal. Again, speculation.

Fathead,

I thought I was done addressing your negative and inaccurate perception of the tragedy, but I have one more issue to address so that hopefully you feel that your concerns have been adequately addressed.

What type of person carries a gun.
1) A person who believes in the American constitional right to bear arms
2) The type of person who is ready and willing to protect themselves with deadly force as needed
3) A person that believes that a gun is needed in today's society (especially when you have aggressive people who prey on weaker people, such as men huring women)
4) A person that has a history of witnessing aggressive situations (such as domestic violence) or a person who has a history of abuse/assault
5) A person who is authorized to carry a gun

Now, as I have been honest with from the beginning, I cannot jeopordize my brother's life by speaking too much about the case. So, from my above remarks, put together any profile you want about "why" my brother was carrying a gun. No one is arguing that if he broke the "carrying laws" within the state, that he should not be charged with the correct charges for what he violated. But since Andrew is my brother, I know that he would not argue with accurate charges. He has been open and honest about the gun. Furthermore, look into the number of fights that have resulted in death from physical aggression and no weapon. My brother has a rod in his back and has been unable to self protect for a long time since his injury leaves him disabled, despite his size. So, it is fair to say that the tragedy could have resulted in Andrew dying by the hands of Peters.

And for my last clarifying remark, which happens to be my own personal belief about the "right to bear arms". It would be fair to conclude that any individual who "LEGALLY" purchases a gun for personal protection, as many Americans so proudly believe is a constitutional right, is a type of individual that will use it for protection. I used to disagree with the right to bear arms, until this tragedy brought light to the fact that my brother could have been beaten to death.

Christmastime and Concerned,

I so obviously wasted my limited energy on Fathead, since the energy was too negative for me to avoid any longer.

Thus, I am proud to comment to the both of you. Your abilities to objectively look at this tragedy has truly given me and my family hope that my brother will get a fair trial. We as an entire family, including Andrew, know that nothing can make the pain the grief and loss issues that people feel change. But we are experiencing similar grief and loss and feel that it would be a waste to play the blame game. If all people impacted can look objectively at the events of that evening, then maybe people can grieve healthier and have less anger related to the belief that two people died over a butt grabbing. It would be helpful if the media would assist the town impacted by actually exposing the terrible tragedy so that people can learn. If people learn from this, maybe this will prevent similar tragedies from occuring. It would be great if everyone impacted and beyond could learn from this tragedy.

By people like you two, and the other objective people commenting, you are exposing the truth so that people can learn and so that my brother's life can be saved.

Thanks so much. This site has been a support for me b/c it has helped me realize that many people do not judge and assume things and that people can be objective by looking at facts. Again, hope he can get a fair trial

Time will tell..If your brother was so threatened by Peters why did he go outside? He should have stayed in the bar and called the cops and told them everything(Butt grabbing,etc) The truth is your brother is also a hothead and had something to prove as well..but he took it to the most extreme level because "he tried to touch me" GREAT DEFENSE! I didn't hear him say'He pulled out a gun" or a bottle or whatever. Your brother had no business carrying a gun at all even though you try to justify that. With me saying all that i do have compassion for you because you are an innocent victim in all of this too. Hopefully Wirth finds some sort of redemption in prison and makes amends with his maker and the souls of Peters and Luick.

Fathead,

Like I said, I truly cannot comment on things about the trial except the facts already reported, which makes it hard. You are commenting to me in a way that corners me into commenting on the case and I will not jeopardize the my brothers case.

Speculation, no one has said that Andrew did not end up outside with Peters. Time will tell the rest. Could it be, Andrew was bullied so much that he finally agreed to step outside. Could it be Andrew was attempting to leave without becoming physical and that is why he was out there. Could it be that he was unable to leave without Peters coming after him even with him "pointing the gun at him and stating quit being so **** stupid". Could it be that Peters then also pulled a gun, or the officer,and then a witness/friend disposed of that weapon. Could it be that Andrew was experiencing symptoms of PTSD as people do when they are faced with life/death situations, thus his reports to police afterwards would be difficult to understand when reported in BITS and PHRASES that the media uses to give the tragedy the spin they want.

Know this, You should not feel sorry for me or my family except for the fact that my brother and us need to wait until the trial for the truth to come out. That is hard, because we know that my brother acted in self-defense. We hold him accountable for being outside if in fact he was a "hothead", but we do not blame him for fighting for his life. Truth is, we are grateful he was able to survive. Maybe God wanted him to have a gun on him b/c his life situation led to him needing it.

Again, I have already said enough without commenting on anything other than the facts already presented to us.
IF you are so compassionate about the tragedy, please continue to read my comments to you so that you understand that all I am saying is, you already made your ruling before you have the details of that night. The details of that night will be hard for all families.

finally, I must reject your compassion for me b/c it is illogical. It indicates that my brother made me a victim. My brother may have made a mistake by stepping outside, if that is in fact "why" he was outside, but he did not make a mistake for surviving.

I will only accept compassion if it is b/c you feel that our family has lost a great person until and if he gets a fair trial. Until then, please comment to my first blogs with responses I can respond to without commenting on the trial. It is exhausting trying to make you only see facts, b/c you keep assuming things.

Again, the trial has not occurred yet, so the above speculations are definate possibilities. I do not kno

I do not understand why everyone here is fighting. This was something that happend and can not be changed. Prople only see and hear what they choose to. I having never met any of these people in my life and watching it on TV and reading about it in the paper, see all sides of this. Luick ( Police Officer) Should have never put her hands on anyone in any sexual way on or off duty. Peter's should have taken his GF home after she was told what she had done was not approved of. Yes Peter's does have a criminal past and for him abusing Luick ( A Police Officer) and her still being with him explains alot. She told him what Wirth had said to her knwoing this man has a anger issue and would possibly do something or say something. Wirth has every right to own a gun for his protection now to carry one and use one if it is self defense then that is his right. If this was any other situation saying Luick had not been a Police Officer and just a gf of a abuser this would not be made into this huge situation that it is being made out to be. I work at a large law firm in Madison and well I have Tattoos and that does not make a a bad person nor does that make me a (Thug). I am a professional with Tattoos. His apperace has nothing to do with the reason this happened. The situation leading up to the confrontation outside of the bar do. Wirth was not out looking for issues he was on a freaking date. She brought the issues to him and then her bf started the horrible beginning to the horrible ending. It is not my day to judge or be judged. This could of been prevented and could have possibly never happend if two people whom were out causing problems would have just left Wirth alone to tend to his date and his right to be out in public and enjoy himself. I do not believe he will not get life but I am sure he will get something out of this but unless he went out that night and had planned on killing these two people then there is going to be a huge battle here.

Time Will Tell:

I have thought all along that Wirth's jury will probably be made up of a mixture similar to what you see here, in an objective sense. However, I'm afraid that you will see some that are leaning more one way or the other. I can't remember what he was officially charged with, but I seriously doubt that he is going to be convicted of first degree murder. I wish you and your family all the best, and I do hope that the truth will prevail. Whether your brother is guilty of being a thug does not prove that he was out to harm anyone that night. It definitely wasn't pre-meditated. That is why I feel sure that the first degree charge would never stick. Good luck, and don't let cynical, narrow minded people bring your confidence or hope down.

I am truly having it difficult to find words to express my feelings regarding your last comment, as it is already lifting my hope. I want everyone to know that my family and Andrew have absolutely nothing to hide and wish we could just let the tragedy be told so that everyone can begin to heal by accepting the truth. But until then, this is making our lives a daily nightmare. Thankfully, we have always been a strong family, as Andrew has: 4 full siblings, parents that have been married since the age of 17 and 18, sister-in laws, a brother in law, 2 nieces and 2 nephews, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, and friends that are considered family. Even with all that support, we truly need support of objective people that can look at only the facts. I am getting that from these recent comments.

Also know, Andrew is mailed all of these clippings, b/c as you could imagine how a 24 year old who is traumatized by having to protect himself is now feeling knowing that the tragedy ended in two lost lives and his life being in prison facing two charges of intentional homicide. That is a lot for anyone to handle, especially given the fact that he cannot receive counseling services for PTSD and grief/loss he is suffering with much less lives with the daily thought that the media is already biasly reporting the event. He is suffering so much for the true "stupidty" that prompted and continued that evening. The hardest part I struggle with is if Andrew can handle being "broken" down b/c one of hte victims happens to be a police officer that continued to not identify herself as such. He is the one struggling most, as being a family member I still can enjoy the freedom of life.

Thanks again for all the support to my family and Andrew and again, we are all very apologetic that the tragedy resulted in two lost lives, as it is accurate to say that no one should lose their life over a "pinched butt".

Heather, if it were up to me and some of the others, we would let him walk free. Not because we feel like people should be able to kill and get away with it, but because we know that if he truly is the person that you say he is, then the guilt that he feels will be far worse of a punishment than jail could ever provide. Is there any way that he can have access to therapy while waiting trial? I don't know much about these things so I am not very helpful. Please let your family know that people are praying for this nightmare to come to an end as quickly as possible.

Jenn,

Thanks so much for the support. It is my understanding that he cannot receive therapy while incarcarated. Andrew's attorny has been a great advocate for my brother and he is working with the legal system to assure that my brother is receiving fair treatment and a fair trial. Until then, Andrew is doing a great job of keeping hope that he will get a fair trial, but that waxes and wanes daily due to the charges he faces. While Andrew has the legal support, my entire family are writing and talking with him as frequently as possible and the family he made in Wisconsin are supporting him with frequent visits. Thanks for all the support and please know that you are being helpful by just being supportive and know Andrew will receive these comments in the mail.

Heather,

Your support for your brother is very admirable. I'm sure that he is very grateful.

Andrew,

Please stay strong and confident that all will be fair and reasonable in the end. I wish you the best of luck and pray that you are able to seek the help that you need for any past experiences that may affect your future. Also, please take the time to thank your family and friends for their support as it appears that they aren't backing down and seem to stay positive in light of your situation. Please don't give up hope. If something seems to be going bad, please remember that God isn't going to put any more on you than what you can handle. Even if you don't believe in God, believe in humanity and justice.

As I read all these entries my heart goes out to all involved. Heather I pray for Andrew and your family for a fair trail. If your a sample of the people that are standing behind Andrew I am sure justice will prevail.

Call me a bleeding heart if you want but I am disappointed in everyone who is giving him a guilty verdict without knowing all the facts. He does deserve a fair trail!

Time will tell..why is Andrew carrying a gun in Jefferson? There is no crime there! there are no shootings there! The place is like mayberry. If your brother didn't mean to kill Peters why did he shoot him three times? Once in the neck, once in the torso, and the other in the waist area. I could somewhat believe your angle if he had shot him in the leg and hit an artery and Peters had died but he shot him THREE times. I'm sure your brother had a cell phone he could have easily called the cops and told them he felt his life was in danger . What about the reports from some people that your brother has a reputation as a ticking time bomb and has pulled guns on people before? Some have commented they seen this day coming years ago. Why was your brother irrational in the courtroom? If he's so sure he is innocent he should have sat there calmly and said to himself "time will tell". You are not looking at this case rationally but emotionally and I can understand that, but the facts are the facts and your brother had no right to carry a gun and his life was not in danger and he shot two people.

God have mercy on this country if the last couple of people who posted mentality's become the norm in this country. God have mercy on us all!

Fathead,

I respectfully reiterated that I would not respond to you if you continue to try to talk to me about the case.

I am the first to say that I cannot help but also look at this case emotionally if you review my first post.

Yet again, you refuse to acknowledge that you already consider him guilty. Bottom line. You have not allowed for a trial.

So, last time I will ever comment on this site again b/c you have again crossed the line...even with me being stating nothing but facts. When I did state speculations, that you happen to not like to hear, you attack those. Although all you have is speculation.

I am clearly not the one that is being too emotional with my posts, as I continue to carefully comment on facts known rather than speculation. Seems you are too emotionally attached, and that is okay.

Finally, the only thing that I can comment about with regard to your last post are two things:

Please review the video of the "emotional outburst" in the courtroom. His intent was never to harm anyone, but he has explained that he emotionally lost it when he heard the charges. Anyone who is being charged with FALSE charges that have a significant impact to their emotional response. What the reporters failed to show video of, is my brother entering the courtroom and immediatly turning to everyone in the courtroom and repeatedly said "I am sorry". He also was crying numerous times during the event. So emotional he was, rightfully so, but irrational, NO!!!!

I will conclude with your speculations that make everyone so angry with you,:

His life was not in danger.
Crime does not happen in your area (the officer committed numerous crimes and I searched and have noticed terrible, terrible INTENTIONAL homicides in your area). And, it has already been stated, my brother was not living in that area for a long time. In fact he was living in a bad area in Milwaukee when he first moved to Wisconsin for his JOB PLACEMENT.

Now, anyone posting on here speculating about Andrew being explosive are speculations. And correct me if I am wrong, YOU are the one continously posting about how Peters aggressive history is irrelavant with the terrible events of that night.

Now I am done with you and I will let the other insightful, rational, logical, empathetic individuals on this site stick up for my brother. I am at peace b/c I addressed all the irrational, inappropriate statements you seem to only be able to make about Andrew and not the other people involved in the events.

Please see the truth, so you can learn that God is trying to show that this situation can be a learning situation if the truth is told.

The area that your brother lived in before Jefferson is South Milwaukee(Alot of taverns in that community,industrial area) not alot of crime. The area he moved to..Jefferson. Have you ever seen the Andy Griffith show..it's small town Mayberry all the way. I was shocked by this case because of where it happened..nothing bad ever happens in Jefferson

Fathead,
The majority of the people who has read this story agree with you. The ridiculous statements that are coming from people like “Time will tell” are only emotionally based. Wirth knew what he was going to do as soon as he took the gun out. When he murdered one person, why murder the second one? What a sweet guy, he must be confused and miss understood.
“Time will tell”, Peters aggressive history is irrelevant, Peters did not abuse Wirth that night. Peter's is the one that is dead.

Fathead,

Now it appears that you want to discuss things that I can discuss.

We cannot imagine how this is impacting your town or the families and friends of the victims b/c the tragedy impacted them differently. The same goes for how Andrew has been impacted and how our family, friends, and town has been impacted. It would be unfair for us to say we can imagine. What we can show is that all of us, including Andrew, feel deeply for all impacted and DO realize two people lost their lives. We know we cannot change that, but, we also cannot give up on the other person involved in the tragedy, Andrew. Let the story be heard.

If you are interested, my family and I lived in an average suburban neighborhood (I will attempt to think of agood comparison for you to get a great image of the town) We lived there until I was 14 or 15 and Andrew was 13 or 14, which is when my parents were finally able to have their dream home built in a rural setting on 5 1/2 acres, still in the same school district Andrew and were since Kindergarten. My oldest brothers are now 35 and the last sibling not mentioned is 33. My dad worked since the age of 19 at the same school district that he currently is employed, which happens to be the same school district my siblings and I attended. As one can imagine, having a father working in the school district you attend, you get away with very little. My parents were extremely strict, although serious crime never happened in our suburban town either. The town we grew up in is 20-25 minutes from center city Allentown and 45 minutes from center city Philadelphia. Our town is also within a half an hour to two other cities that have a high homicide rate each year. In addition, the town we grew up in is within 45 minutes from Reading, PA, another well known crime ridden city. Our area, the Lehigh Valley, has actually been the only Non-city allotted government funds to assist with gang issues, as the money has been allotted for an area known as the Route 222 corrider. That route has proven to have brought significant criminals into the suburbs to sell drugs. Many criminals have also relocated to the suburbs with hopes of avoiding the law. Our area is sadly getting worse and worse.

I am opening up to you b/c I know you are ready to hear some of these facts. Our town is deeply hurting also. We have lost an individual who truly felt the need to fight for his life. My family is well known in this area and Andrew was well liked. I go to the grocery store and people feel the need to give me hugs and it always ends in everyone crying. But, I am posting on here to focus on my brother so that he gets a fair trial. He deserves that.

Finally, to assist with your thoughts that Andrew was so explosive, please listen to my following thoughts:

If you believe Andrew has demonstrated that he is an imminant risk to others and explosive enough to need to be imprisoned for that, then think about this...would a truly explosive individual attempt to leave things at words when offended and sexually assaulted...would a truly explosive individual cry and have an emotional breakdown...would a criminal who just committed intentional homicide be distraught about the status of the victims...would an explosive individual cooperate with police and detectives following "an intentional homicide" they so obviously would want to cover up...And now I am exhausted.

Hoped we can chat some more. Must get to bed for work.

Time Will Tell (aka Heather)... This is Christmastime (aka Kim),

I'm so glad that you are sending these postings to your brother. I printed these pages a few weeks ago with the intention of sending them to Andrew in hopes that he would be able to keep his spirits up. I wanted him to know that there are a lot of people who can see this situation for what it is. And people just like us on this blog will make up the jury pool. My fiance' however didn't want me to "get involved" and told me it was weird that I wanted to reach out to a stranger; so I didn't send them. For some reason this case has been close to my heart. I suspect it's because I feel that it's not fair that a 24 year old had to be put in a situation of having to defend himself while he was innocently out on a date. For God's sake he's only 24. I also know Gregg's history and have friends that knew him and what a bully he truly was. He was kicked out of at least two bars in my hometown for fighting!!! I don't know all the facts of that night, but from the brief testimony of those that were there, it' clear that Andrew wanted no trouble. It seems that Gregg however did. I honestly believe that he pushed and pushed and pushed your brother to the breaking point of having to defend himself anyway he could.

I honestly feel for your brother. Not only is jail a living hell, but he seems to be filled with remorse for what transpired that fateful night. I also feel sad for what you and your family are going through right now. I too have a younger brother, so I know how much you must be hurting and how helpless you must feel sometimes. You are a great big sister for standing by him and loving him through this. I really wish there was a way to raise the bail to get your brother out of jail until his trial. I also pray that the D.A. will come to her senses and drop the 1st degree intentional homicide charges.

I only live 20 minutes from the Jefferson County Jail. Can I drop off books, playing cards or a few dollars for Andrew? I don't know the rules of jail. Please let me know what I can do to help.

I will continue to pray for you, Andrew, your family and the deceased's families. Tell Andrew to hang on....the truth will come out and set him free. Take care.

Fathead,

I cannot help but add one more important comment...I mentioned how honorable my father is as evidenced by his ability to provide for his 5 children, but I did leave out our mother and she is way too important to leave out.

My mother chose to be a stay at home mother and truly loved raising us, which led to a very happy and supportive family environment. My mother loved children so much that she also chose to provide childcare to other families in need, which assisted with my parents ability to support us.
My mother provided not just childcare, but she provided true emotional and educational support as well (so I would define it as early childcare center if it were a business). That can be evidenced by my mother's structure of the childcare.

My parents raised us to be empathetic, respectful, strong, independent adults, which I have already outlined by presenting the facts that some cannot focus on b/c of the terrible feelings this elicits all around. Thanks for letting me share.

The truth will come out and set him free..yeah like their just going to let him walk out the front door! What is a matter with some of you people.

fathead your name truly fits, you are thick headed. And unless your a sissy you would of taken peters outside also. your right this was gonna happen eventually with peters record he was eventually gonna get killed or kill somebody, maybe even luick. and as far as you saying crime dont happen in jefferson it does, there was a cop in that town comiting a few crimes sexual abuse, breaking a restraining order, and possibly drinking and driving. crime happens everywhere. i hope to see you at the trial, you will see me like i said ill be the biggest person there,over six feet tall and 300 pounds. looking forward to seeing all the suporters of the cop and her piece of crap boyfriend. and nobody saw this coming from wirth for years because he was only her for a short time. get the facts right

has anybody asked if wirths gun was concealed, because in the state of wisconsin you can carry a gun in public if it is not concealed. and yes there are bar fights all over the country, but in my travels in the states that you are allowed to carry concealed there is less crime.

Nicely put alexa.

Ben,
I wish I could be at the trial, but can't due to work. If I can take a day off to attend, I'll sit right next to you in support of Andrew and his family.

Fathead,
When I said the truth will set him free, I didn't mean that he would literally walk out of jail. Geez, don't take things so literally. What I meant is that the truth will come out in court and set him free from the 1st degree murder charges and spiritually set him free. And who knows, a jury may see that Andrew acted in self defense and he really could walk free.

People in PA saw this coming yeras ago. Wow! thats a lot of crime in jefferson..drinking and driving. Better carry a gun to protect myself. You people are starting to get comical.

FATHEAD

who do you know from pa. you talk like you know wirth personally. which i dont think you do. i know wirth well and dont remember you or your sissy way of thinking.

christmastime
im sure andrew and his family thank you for your support. i hope the families of luick and peters have the same support because they need it also.

lets just hear what the facts are, if wirths lawyer thought it was as simple as you bleeding hearts think, they would not advis eandrew to fight the charges. if some of you would pay attention to the little bit that comes out in the news the judge had advised the DA to rethink his charges of 2 counts of intentional homicide maybe the judge thinks they cant make those counts stick
so maybe when we hear all of what really happened we will understand. hell maybe it will pin wirth to the wall maybe not

Hmmm...self defense, huh? If I read things correctly, Wirth said Peters "tried to touch" him. That's a FAR cry from "he (or she) pulled a gun on me". Sounds like a completely irrational judgement call, but certainly not self defense. Did Wirth walk away with so much as a scratch? I don't recall hearing anything to that effect. If anyone in their right mind thinks it's OK to shoot someone - THREE TIMES - because they've tried to touch you (even in the physical fighting sense), then we're all in big trouble.

I understand the Wirth family's stance. It's only natural to want to defend a loved one, and I wouldn't expect you to react any other way. What you need to do is put your emotions aside, as you've told everyone else to do. If he screwed up, he screwed up, and justice will be served.

Goober,

There is a lot more to the story than the media has reported. So when you say that Wirth told the police that Peters "tried to touch" him, there is also the part where Wirth waved his gun to Peters and yelled for him to "stop being so f*#ing stupid" Based on Peters violent history, what would stop him from threatening a complete stranger (Wirth), and making that stranger (who is a lot smaller than Peters) feel like his life was in danger? i have friends who knew Gregg and they all say that he had a huge ego and a horrible temper. I'm sorry, but if I had a big, angry man threatening me over something so stupid, I would protect my life any way I felt that I had to. We have also heard from Andrew's family that he had a rod put in his back, which would make him unable to handle a serious fight with a large, hot headed angry man such as Peters. And as far as the three shots that were fired....Wirth told police that it happend so fast and he had no idea that the gun went off three times or that he even hit Jenni with a bullet. Wirth showed remorse immediately for what happened that night. But I don't think it's all his fault. Wirth was forced into a bad situation by Jenni and Gregg. So yes, I do feel bad for Mr. Wirth. The victims really did bring this on themselves. I don't think they deserved to die, but neither did Andrew. The jury will have a tough job. This is a hard case. prayers to all involved.

Goober,

You bring up some of my main points, the media has chosen to pick and choose bits and pieces of Andrews statements made to the detectives. I would think the same thing if I read what the media chooses to write about and would feel the same way if I do not know my brother. So you are right with a lot of what you commented on.

From your comment, sounds like you have already made a guilty ruling just as Fathead had.

Think about this...when a person is in extreme distress to the point that they feel their life is threatened, scientific research shows that individuals either fight, flight, or freeze. Things like this tragedy happen in a matter of seconds, causing any individual who feels their life is threatened to respond in seconds. The human brain cannot have logical thought processes at that time and then time tells if you are a survivor. Therefore, Andrews statements made with the police following the tragedy need to be completely reviewed so that you do not get misperceptions with what the media chooses to report. Also, truly complete a literature review on humans responding to life threatening situations, your thought region of the brain stops functioning properly. So yes, my speculations are appropriate.

Thanks for acknowledging that families and friends most impacted by this tragedy will have the hardest time objectively looking at the facts.

Agree, No one should put their hands on another person. However, to pull a gun and shoot two people to death is murder. Wirth did not murder two people in self-defence. Normal people would have called the police and reported the two, Jennifer for sexual harrassment and Peter's for stalking him. If wirth was as sensitive as you claim( Time will tell) Wirth would have never had a loaded gun on him and killed two people. Fathead is right on target. Wirth is right where he needs to be, going to Prison.

C.C,

If you felt your life were threatened and you had a registered gun on you and a cellphone, with SECONDS to make a life decision.

Tough situation to be in...Uh?

C.C.

To avoid being repetitive, please review my comment regarding profiles of individuals that legally purchase guns...that will adequately address your comment that if he were so sensitive he wouldn't have a gun.

Goober,

There is a lot more to the story than the media has reported. So when you say that Wirth told the police that Peters "tried to touch" him, there is also the part where Wirth waved his gun to Peters and yelled for him to "stop being so f*#ing stupid" Based on Peters violent history, what would stop him from threatening a complete stranger (Wirth), and making that stranger (who is a lot smaller than Peters) feel like his life was in danger? i have friends who knew Gregg and they all say that he had a huge ego and a horrible temper. I'm sorry, but if I had a big, angry man threatening me over something so stupid, I would protect my life any way I felt that I had to. We have also heard from Andrew's family that he had a rod put in his back, which would make him unable to handle a serious fight with a large, hot headed angry man such as Peters. And as far as the three shots that were fired....Wirth told police that it happend so fast and he had no idea that the gun went off three times or that he even hit Jenni with a bullet. Wirth showed remorse immediately for what happened that night. But I don't think it's all his fault. Wirth was forced into a bad situation by Jenni and Gregg. So yes, I do feel bad for Mr. Wirth. The victims really did bring this on themselves. I don't think they deserved to die, but neither did Andrew. The jury will have a tough job. This is a hard case. prayers to all involved.

C.C.,

I am a person who doesn't like guns either, but have family members who enjoy their God given right to bear arms. And I can say that your so called "profile" is way off base. Just because Andrew owned a gun doesn't make him a thug or someone that's not sensitive. Get your head out of your ass

Sorry everyone, I hit the post button twice by accident.

Kim, (a.k.a. Christmastime),

I felt so inclined due to emotion to respond immediately to C.C. rather than what I intended. I wanted to thank you for being so objective and so passionate for my brother to get a fair trial. That's what makes America a great country.

Anyway, I intended on not only thanking you, but I also wanted to let you know that you have done more than enough. These objective comments will help Andrew with Hope, which the more than anything tangible you could give him.

Again, we are all grieving losses and am glad that we are beginning to heal by being objective enough to know that two people did not lose their lives over a pinched butt. God did not have it happen that way, so God must want us to learn and grow

Ben,

I have also intended on reaching out to thank you for knowing Andrew as a person so much that you are willing to go to bat for him. Your support to my brother is what made me intrigued to keep checking this site.

Not only has your support assisted Andrew, but you have also elightened others minds that things are never as they appear on the service. Especially when the media reports information in a strategic and biased manner as it has this entire time.

Finally, it lightens my mind to know that Andrew has people at every court appearance, as only select family members have been able to adjust their lives and responsiblities to support him in person...yet!!!!

"The victims really did bring this on themselves."

Christmastime, are you out of your mind? They're dead. Not injured, not recovering from wounds, not feeling remorseful over what happened that night, dead. And it happened at the hands of another responsible human being. If either one of them had pulled a gun on Wirth first, I might be singing a different tune, but that does not appear to be the case. Do you honestly think unarmed Peters was stupid enough to try and engage in a physical battle against Wirth's gun? His girlfriend was a cop. He was fully aware of what guns are capable of doing.

Stop trying to make Andrew sound like some whimpy little defenseless guy. He's obviously man enough to carry a gun...or, no?

I understand the fight or flight mechanism that is built into us as humans, but at some point, we also need to take responsibility for our actions. No matter what instinct it was that took over, Andrew Wirth pulled that trigger - 3 times. Of that, he is guilty. Andrew Wirth did not get his ass kicked that night, he walked away and said "That's life". Remorse? I'd be remorseful too if I was looking at life in prison.

have to correct this error in last posting, I can handle misspellings and extra words but...I meant to say "nothing is as it appears on the surface"

Quit saying God had it happen this way and that way. The truth is your brother made a decision to take two lives because he was gonna get his ass kicked.People get beat up everyday and walk away with their tail between their legs ..NOT KILL someone. You have the weakest defense for your brother. The guy is going away for a long time like he should. I'm sorry he has put your family and other families through this.

C.C.,

I understand that it is difficult to wrap your mind around the thought that two people's lives are lost due to self defense. That is obvious to me. What concerns me, is you are unable to even respond to me without each comment including that you still believe that he intentionally killed the two victims.

I am calm and rationally attempting to assist you with looking only at the facts already known by the media...which we know has already slanted it (Fact-pinching anyones butt, especially when they don't know the person, is a criminal act yet the media still says "over pinched butt".

If you continue to make conclusions and continue discussing only the case in a non-objective manner, then I will need to stop responding to your comments.

Finally, C.C. and Fathead:

I make it a point to address every speculation you post. I think it would be fair if you address my comments objectively as well rather than responding with comments that you craft into your theory and VERDICT.

Yeah,,shortly after the shooting he tells the cops."that's life,he chose to mess with me" . Now he's looking at life and has changed his tune.You can tell he was a punk and he deserves what he's going to get.

Please stop responding time will tell..your defense has all kinds of holes in it and is actually quite ignorant.

Fathead,

Your right, people do walk away from bar fights nightly. But remember, people also lose their lives nightly in bar fights. I will not slant this comment biasly, as it is obvious I know it was self defense. So, even if he was not acting in self defense, Do people lose their lives by individuals bare hands?

I am not saying that Peters intended on killing my brother when he asked him to step outside, but how would by brother know that...especially when testimony verifies that Peters did not let Andrew leave it at words...yet another fact demonstrating how explosive Peters was

Fathead,

I am sorry that you are so upset that you feel I should stop commenting. I will not post on here to you any longer.

Sincerely,
Heather

Time heals all wounds and also allows for people to look at situations more clearly

Fathead,

Your last post to me was not on my screen when I posted my second last post to you. Sorry!!!!

Time Will Tell (Heather),

I hope you don't stop commenting on here because of Fathead. It's good for people to hear about the kind of person that Andrew is. The majority of us see the facts that we have so far as self defense. I'm sure more and more facts will come out when trial starts that supports self defense and what really happened that night to force Andrew into a split second life or death decision. There is a trial going on right now in Kenosha, WI. (about 30 miles east of Jefferson) where two men got into a bar fight with NO weapons. Just their bare hands. One man punched the other so hard that he fell backward and hit his head so hard on the concrete that his brain swelled and he died. That could very well have been how Andrew ended up had he not protected himself anyway he could. Self Defense! Plain and simple.

Fathead,

This is what you said: "People get beat up everyday and walk away with their tail between their legs ..NOT KILL someone" and again you are wrong. What about the recent case in Kenosha, WI where one man died in a bar fight from one punch. Here's the link to the story

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/men_squared_off_to_fight_witnesses_say_7129516.html

There's no question that Wirth shot and killed two people. At this point, a self-defense plea is his only hope, so it's no surprise that his family and friends (and Wirth himself) will argue that it was self-defense and will maintain that position to the end. As I said, it's his ONLY hope, so they have to cling to it. There's no other logical stance for them to take, considering their loved one's future (or lack thereof) is at stake. No one is going to convince anyone else of anything different, no matter what really happened.

Let's none of us forget that Jenni and Gregg also deserve a fair trial. I wonder what (if) they would have been charged with if they had lived to talk about it. Interesting to think about that, isn't it? Murder? Doubtful.

I will only stop commenting on this site b/c it is truly hurting people too much. I am very concerned that someone may have taken their own life due to events of the night and would not want anyone else to become too angry and depressed that another person takes their own life.

I have a masters degree in social work and am employed as a psychiatric social worker with a hospital, providing assessments of patients in psychiatric crisis. I see daily people suffering from life stressors and know when enough is enough. Thanks for listening and seek help if this situation has anyone thinking about ending their own or someone elses life b/c of anger or pain.

C.C.,

What you said in your last post doesn't even make sense. You think that the only people saying that Wirth acted in self defense are family or friends of his. Not True! I've never met Mr. Wirth, nor his family members or any of his friends. I have absolutely no connection, other than living a few towns away from Jefferson. I do however, study law and see the facts, and the history and past behavior of all involved and make my opinion on that. Like it or not, Jenni and Gregg's past will most likely be brought up in court.

Heather,

It's nice of you to think of other's and their feelings. But, I know people have strong feelings for both sides of this tragedy.

Please take care and continue loving your brother through this and stand strong knowing that the truth will come out in court. I will continue my prayers for all involved.

To everyone impacted:

This LAST post is intended to correct/mend the hurt feelings I have caused. I was tentative to post on here with the thought that Andrew and my family can never expect others impacted to have the same feelings we have.

We realize that this tragedy has caused SO MANY people to be living a daily nightmare...including us.

I began with one post b/c I felt that is was time for Andrew to have a family member post. It then became therapeutic for me, but hurt others and I see that.

Finally and most importantly, we need everyone to understand the following:

We do not feel that Officer Luick intended to offend Andrew as Andrew was obviously offended. We do not feel that Officer Luick is any less of a person for being what appears to be a fun loving person to those who know her so closely. We cannot imagine what the world has lost without her here b/c we did not know her.

The very same applies for Mr. Peters. We do not feel that he intended on threatening Andrew to the point that led to the tragedy.

I feel I should have never began posting on here because the VERY LAST intention I had was to hurt someone already hurting so bad from events of that evening.

fathead

maybe if there were punishments for people like peters, he would not have thought he could fight anyone he wanted. he lived a thug life and its sad but he died a thug. he is the one who went back to the bar to fight and bad stuff happens when you pick fights with people you dont know.

Heather, I don't think you should be so quick to withdraw from the discussion. I understand that it is hard for you to respond to some of the posts due to the pending case, but as far as hurting someone else, are they not doing the same to you? It is generous of you to care for their feelings, but if they expect you to be sensitive to theirs, they should also be sensitive to yours. I'm not saying that you should respond with a vengeance, but some of us do in fact want to keep updates on the story.

Thug life? the guy spent most of his time hunting and fishing.

Ben..with your mentality..you just might wind up in prison just like Wirth. You seem to have that "bad ass" mentality as well. Wirth had it and look where it got him.

Fathead, with your mentality you could wind up like peters! I will say you do live up to your name!Reading your blogs tells me you are long on mouth and short on brains!Here is a piece of advice for you (take it as you will) don`t get drunk at bars with your mouth you are gonna grt hurt!!

Short on brains? I'm not the one defending a cold blooded killer. If wirth was so bad ass why did he need a gun? Was big bad gregg that scary. I'll take a beating if i have to..i'd never shoot anyone though.

Let your buddy be an example..is it worth spending the rest of your life in prison.

The level of force that Peters brought was not enough for Wirth to use deadly force. Wirth deserves life behind bars.

Fathead,

I backed off b/c I was truly concerned that I was hurting a family member. As I read Jenn's last comment, I realize she is right. I do have the right to freedom and speech and I have been nothing but respectful and sensitive to you.

You repeat yourself over and over and clearly get so angry that you cross the line and then I feel it impossible to not respond b/c you are so irrational. It angers me more then hurts me. I was hurt when I truly felt that I hurt you. But Jenn kindly made me realize, the truth does hurt.

Since you repeat yourself so much, here it goes:

Read my post regarding the type of people who bear arms.
Is it not obvious by now that Peters continued to engage Andrew in an altercation. His record, not only his reputation as a hothead, demonstrates he will pray on anyone he thinks is weaker than him. That is true those who abuse women. Have you forgotten that when you make statements like "thug...he was a fisher and hunter" or statements like "Wirth should have been willing to take a beaten". you are weak if you are willing to take a beaten. For the RECORD, testimony verifies that Wirth appeared reluctant to fight Peters. Not only did it appear that way, but Wirth obviously tried to end it at words.

The fact of the matter is Peters did not like that someone was not willing to back down from him once pushed enough.

Now FOR ANOTHER TRY, will you stop posting comments as if you were there and as if Peters had no role in the tragedy.

Now if you are man enough, I DARE you to try to address each comment I made to YOU appropriately without your comment concluding that my brother is a cold heartened killer.

WAKE UP! I do not care how verbally aggressive my brother was once he was offended, the FACT of the matter is that my brother continued on his date after he addressed the disrespect and assault. It was Peters who was the HOTHEAD unwilling to let a 24 year old speak to his significant other the way my brother had. I do not even know what the words were, and I can only imagine b/c i know that my brother has always been all talk. He TALKED LOUD and threatening when he felt he needed to, but his record shows that he does not go after weaker and younger individuals and cause physical altercation when his feelings are hurt. It does make sense that my brother's personality and Peters issues with aggression were a deadly combination to make Peters and Andrew feel scared for their lives to the point they each fought. VERY, VERY SAD. But again, I KNOW my brother would have fought him physically prior to his back surgery.

Fathead, I'm with Heather on this one. From your statements, I assume that only cops should have the right to bear arms. If you do not believe that, then why, other than protection, would someone weild a handgun? They are not exactly used for hunting rabbits. I personally do not want weapons in my house, because I have the freedom to make that choice. However, I have nothing against people that do carry a weapon. I also fully understand that if you are willing to carry around a pistol, then you are fully prepared to use it if you feel that it is necessary. So your profiling of an individual that legally owns a firearm as a thug is irrational. I say that mainly because the "thugs" are the ones that usually DON'T legally own these firearms.

The second issue that I would like to discuss with you is the accusation that you made that portrayed Andrew Wirth as a cold-blooded killer. What makes you think this? A person who kills in cold blood NEVER waits for another person to instigate a situation before they take aim. And you freely admit that Peters asked Wirth to step outside. Which means that Andrew could not possibly have killed in cold blood. He never went that night searching for a victim. What in the facts that have been made public make you think that he did?

Time will tell..I will not address you are anyone else on this board. It's in the courts hands where it should be. Goober made a great point you will defend your brother no matter what and I can kind of understand that..you have no other choice. This hits alot closer to you than me..I am not a family member of Peters or Luick but live in the area and was shocked by the senslessness of your brother and his actions. It's in the courts hands and justice will be served. No one is blaming you or your family for what happened..only Andrew. He chose to carry a gun,he chose to use it..now he has to pay the price.

Heather (a.k.a. Time will Tell) Christmastime,
First I would like to say, if this were my family member I would be sick. The love I have for my family would not change regardless to what they have done. Christmastime, You need to keep studing Law. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. YES, Jennifer pinched Wirth's butt(sexual assult?) Peters had a past of slapping around women. Wirth or any other person calls the Police for help, they do not shoot two people to death. Not one shot, three into Peter's and Two into Jennifer. That's not self defense, that's murder. Christmastime, okay you did not meet Wirth? So. Jennifer did nothing in her past, except had bad taste in men. I don't know why you people are agruing Wirth is going to Prison for killing two people. End of story.

Christmastime,I did not profile Wirth. You did. Know one said one thing about a gun other than you don't take a gun into a bar to drink? That is like an Alcoholic working in a bar. If you want to agrue, find someone else. First of all Read, keep up with his case. There is NO self-defense, it did not and will not fly. Hope you are still in Law School?

Time Will Tell,
Just my Opinion,if you are so upset what is being said about your brother; Why keep posting? People are going to continue to want justice for these two innocent people, that will not change and You will not convince anyone any different. You can not change what is writen in the media the Police reports, witnesses or other people's minds.
You may want to look at who is getting irrational, you or fathead. My money is on YOU.

Time Well Tell: "You repeat yourself over and over and clearly get so angry that you cross the line and then I feel it impossible to not respond b/c you are so irrational. It angers me more then hurts me. I was hurt when I truly felt that I hurt you. But Jenn kindly made me realize, the truth does hurt."

fathead
peters might of spent time hunting and fishing, but when he wasnt he was beating women and beating up random people in bars. his extensive record on ccap proves that. stop defending the actions of two people that brought so much pain and sadness to so many. im defending wirth because he didnt start or want the problem it was the luick and peters who decided to confront wirth because he didint want luick touching him. boy that is a reason to beat somebody up. face realtiy peters and luick caused the problem and now people are unhappy with the outcome. and if people would stick to the issue of respecting people and their space none of this would have happened. agin i feel for the families involved.

ben,
No, that is not a reason to beat someone up, Peter's was wrong. So what your saying is that because Peter's beat up women in the past and told Wirth to fight him outside the Bar that night, Wirth had every right to shoot two innocent people to death? I see, so if someone cuts me off in traffic and we both pull over and they verbally tell me lets fight. I can stoot them to death, because it's self-defense. LOL What you, Wirth's sister and some of the others are discribing is vigilante.

Its not over till the fat lady sings. LA LA LA LA LA NOW EVERY ONE HOW ABOUT GIVING ALL THE FAMILIES OF THIS EVENT A LITTLE PEACE. WE ALL NEED TO GRIEVE. MOST OF US CAN'T STOP READING THESE BLOGS AND YOU ALL ARE UPSETTING US. THANK YOU.

cc
what im saying is peters and luick made choices that put them in that position. plain and simple wirth should not have shot peters he should of let it go but so should have luick and peters they are to blame peters went back on luicks word and bad stuff happened that is just the wayn it is. the actions of peters and luick brought this on, wirth would not of had a problem if the happy handed luick kept her hands to her self. she then had peters confront him. now you tell me who is to blame for the poor choices made that nite.

I see a lot of people bringing up the question was it a stray bullet that took a little boys mother, or a point blank shot. Now I have a question of my own. A stray bullet fired off from thugs who think picking up a gun is the best idea to deal with a rival thug passes through a home and hits a child. Now for a second consider it was YOUR child that got hit by this stray bullet. Would the thug who fired the gun be any less guilty of making a choice to use that gun, resulting in the innocent child being shot/killed just because he didn't hit his primary target (in my way of thinking the shooter and the boyfriend BOTH acted like thugs - the shooter chose to carry a deadly weapon, run with a "biker gang", and even tried to play up a "bad ass" persona ei; the "biker gang (not all bikers are bad!) the neck tattoo - while the boyfriend tried to be a tough guy and "take it outside")? Would he be any less guilty of ending a life too soon - premeditated I might add as he chose to carry that gun and actually use it?

I get it, she pinched his butt. Big deal, care to guess how many times mine and other women have had this same thing to happen to them? I also get it, he was on a date and therefore offended. Again, big deal. To me it would make an even worse impression to see my date shooting and killing two people over something so petty than to see him telling a frisky female to stop being so grabby.

Now, I know some of you are wondering why I said premeditated even though it could possibly have been a stray bullet and so I'm going to explain why. When you or anyone picks up a loaded gun you're making a choice. When you fire that gun you know logically it is not unlikely that stray bullets can hit and yes, kill, people you weren't aiming at. But just by taking both of these actions you choose to take that risk. What if it hadn't been Jenni the stray shot hit but someone who just happened to be walking out of those doors? Would that make this case anymore clearer for those who still think it is self defense? How is an unarmed woman dangerous?

Heather I do feel for you and your family but the boyfriend was not the only one explosive on this tragic and senseless night that two people lost their lives. The gun your brother chose to carry and use was also explosive, more so in the hands of someone who is explosive himself. I am sorry for your family and for the families of the ones who died. But truly this all could have been avoided had a gun not been brought into an already terrible situation. Quite frankly, whether the boyfriend was abusive or a hothead or not does not matter, he is not the one on trial. The same could be said of your brother, he was verbally abusive by not simply saying "Keep your hands off me please." name calling does set tempers off, and really, what woman likes being called nasty names? Drunk or sober that too is offensive. He could also have removed himself from the situation by asking employees to get Luick in check, or taking it one step further by leaving the bar and taking his date elsewhere had he truly been that bothered by a pinch on the rear end.

Again, I am sorry for what your going through but your brother was no angel in the situation he indeed caused by carrying and then using a gun. I do hope you and your family finds peace and that your brother one day will forgive himself, but to do that he's going to need to take responsibility for the fact he chose to take one life for certain by firing off a gun he chose to carry, not once.. not twice..but three times, with the end result being he instead took two lives. At least he can still live his life and perhaps turn it around while he is in prison. He can take college classes and do something productive for himself, his family and even society whenever he is released. I do hope he uses his time wisely to better himself and uses his situation to make good things come from it, he is after all still a young man and he will get another shot at living his life someday.

Jenni and her boyfriend weren't so lucky, their lives can never be given back to them. For that matter Jenni's son also gets to deal with people blaming his mother for her own death over something so silly and harmless as a flirtation done while having a good time with friends. How fair is that to this child? God Bless you all.

Fatlady, don't continue to read the blog if you are upset by it. Its that simple. Does anyone know why the paramedic was fired regarding something that had to do with this whole ordeal and he killed himself? Does anyone have any details on his suicide?

C.C.,

I'm wondering if there is a reason for your personal attacks on people who are defending Andrew? Wasn't it you that said we all have a right to our own oppinion? You will never change our minds and we won't change yours. But there really is no reason to personally attck those of us who disagree with you. Especially Andrew's sister who is hurting right now. We'll see what happens in court. It may not be what you expect.

"He said the male subject came after him and he shot him," said Fort Atkinson Police Sergeant Thomas Stewart.

SELF DEFENSE FOR SURE~

One of the witnesses testimony: How is this NOT self defense? Answer that fathead, C.C. and the rest of you that say that the shooting is 1st Degree Intentional Homiced. I can't wait for the jury to get this trial. Andrew will get a reduced charge for sure.

Once outside, Gottlieb said, he saw Wirth with what appeared to be a small black gun in his hand waving it back and forth or in a side to side motion, as if covering his position as he backed away from the parking lot.

Continuing his testimony, Gottlieb said Wirth was wearing a leather jacket with some type of writing on the back of it.

Ok, as you all know by now, I'm on the side of it not being first degree intentional homicide. However, I must play the Devil's advocate for a moment. Eye witness testimony has many times been construed, overturned, or otherwise shown as not being credible. In many cases, they can find that the eye witnesses have some relation to the person they are defending or a deep dislike for the person they are opposing; therefore, some of these opinions or "sightings" can be found as biased. I really think we need some more information before anyone else is going to consider leaning toward the other side. When is the trial actually set to start? Does anyone know?

Christmatime..I'll ask you this..Why is it self defense? Did Peters have a gun? No. So if you and i get into an arguement and i say lets take it outside..it's ok for you to shoot me because"you felt your life was in danger". Give me a break. The only way you can shoot someone is if they also have a gun or knife and you have proof that they were going to use it. Why is that so complicated for some of you people. Also answer this..why is wirth carrying a gun in Jefferson..there has never been a murder there and no violent crime. ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Fathead,

Show me the WI. Stats. that say you can ONLY use a gun to defend yourself if the other person has a weapon. It's self defense because from witness testimony he showed Gregg the gun and warned him to "stop being so f#ing stupid", which proves that Gregg kept bullying Wirth to the point of needing to defend himself any way he could. Don't forget that Wirth is disabled with a serious back injury which caused him to not even be able to work, let alone defend himself physically. It's sad that both of these victims died while Wirth tried to defend himself from the big bully Gregg. But shit happens.

As far as having a gun in Jefferson...who cares. I'm sure a lot of people who live in Jefferson County have guns. It's legal to have a gun in the state of WI. It's only a crime to carry a concealed weapon. Wirth's gun wasn't concealed. He waived it around in front of Gregg. Gregg knew he had a gun!!!!

Christmastime,
I have learned the hard way on a public website once you put your post out there be prepared for opposition. You should read Everyone's opinions on this topic. Sorry if you feel personally offended? I am not trying to change anyone's mind about Wirth. I am stating the facts about this case. You stated self-defense in regards to Wirth's case. According to the states attorney's that is not going to fly. If you are in Law School, check out the definition

Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.
If Wirth believed that Peter's was going to maybe harm him or kill him; Why than did he kill Jennifer? She was of no threat to Wirth, Pinching his butt, so Wirth shoots her to death?
This is what I believe, just me!

Fathead, for one, there have been murders in Jefferson, I have pulled stats on it. Albeit, not many, but there have been some. However, this low stat may be because of the low population. Nonetheless, it does seem that it is a fairly safe place to live. However, I must ask you this. Lets say that you own a firearm. You are asleep in your house and someone breaks in. It's dark, you don't know what they are holding in their hand or if they even have anything in their hand. You feel threatened because someone has entered your property. Are you going to just hold the gun at them and ask them if they have a weapon or are you going to shoot to save your life and the life of your family? I'm pretty sure you would use the weapon you own. Especially if it is registered to you. Therefore, I feel your argument about whether Peters had a weapon or not is completely moot. There is no law that says it is only self defense if they are armed. People can kill with their bare hands. It is self defense if you are defending yourself. Plain and simple.

Fathead,

One more thing...don't you think you're being a bit hypocritical to demand (writing in all caps) that I answer your questions yet you refuse to answer Andrew's sister "Time Will Tell's" questions. Hmmmmm, very interesting.

Christmastime, fathead doesn't answer my questions either.

Liability is present where the licensee brandishes the weapon, threatens use, or exacerbates a volatile situation, or when the licensee is carrying while intoxicated. While state laws vary, generally use of deadly force must be a matter of last resort, when life or limb is endangered. Wirth was drinking that night, how much? Jennifer, was not threat to Wirth, he shoot her in the chest point blank range.

Christmastime,
I am pretty sure that you are the one who is attacking pe ople and calling them names. There is no need to do that.
Your comment: "stop being so f#ing stupid",

C.C., when Christmastime was saying "stop being so f#ing stupid" she was quoting what Andrew had told Peters before he shot him. She wasn't calling anyone names or being rude. You tell us that we should know the facts about the case before we say that it was self defense, yet you seem to not know the facts yourself. I'm pretty sure this is a pot/kettle situation. Maybe you should actually read all of the known facts before you make a judgment about what happened that night.

Jenn, Christmastime did not clearify that. If that is what she meant. As to telling You anything I have never addressed YOU. I don't have any idea who or what you are. I have not read or am I interested in reading your post. Again this is my opinion and I totally agree with Fathead. This was not self-defence, Jennifer did nothing to Wirth at the point that he shot her in the chest. Cowardly act on his part. I don't know exactly what went down that night and neither do you. Thank you anyway for you deep concern.

Yeah, my concern runs deep, you are so very welcome.

Peters didn't deserve to be shot either..he didn't do anything that justified being shot. Christmastime..there is no way you are in law school and are that ignorant of the concealed carry law. Wirth had it in his jacket or waistband and was not showing it. If he had been showing it(holster) i'm sure the cops still would have been called because there is a gray area to that as well and you will be cited for that..that's why you don't see anybody doing it in Wisconsin.

Big bully Gregg? How many times was he cited for battery..NONE. You guys didn't know him but act like you do. I hear all these rumors of him being some bar room brawler but yet I see nothing in his record to indicate that.

fathead, I'm sorry I certaily did not mean that Peter's should have been shot. In one of the post someone said that Wirth had a bad back and he could not defend himself against anyone let alone Peter's. Underline tone as if it was shooting two people were justified. If Wirth could not defend himself and he knows THAT, that would be even more reason to call the police on Jennifer and Gregg. Also if Wirth was so Disabled, why would he take the chance and go outside to fight Peter's; Unless Wirth had no intentions of fighting Peter's Just Shooting him.

Fathead, You still don't want to answer my questions? Interesting, very interesting. I was big enough to answer yours.

C.C.,
When I said "stop being so f*&ing stupid" I was refering to testimony from one of the witnesses. Not attacking anyone on here for having a different oppinion than mine.

Umm...Fathead,

In your last post you said that Gregg was never charged with battery! Isn't that what Domestic Violence is? Gregg was charged with it TWICE!!!! Check out his record on ccap....here's the link http://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;jsessionid=52273CF79614D78042453E4D810D491F.render6?cacheId=B4B63B4F76F713814F43154C7AD9B724&offset=0&sortColumn=0&sortDirection=DESC

Were you a friend of Greggs or something?

What everyone wishes would have happened is that the cops were called and Andrew could have told his story and Peters and Luick theirs. If Peters and Luick would have been cited..so be it! At least they would still be alive.

I knew Gregg thru a friend of mine..Yes.

I have a question if someone could answer it? What difference does it make if Peter's had a criminal record for domestic violence? It has been proven by the media and reports that Wirth and Peter's had some what of a temper. How does a fist justify a bullet? Please someone explain the logic. What is the Logic to the alleged threat of Peter's fighting Wirth outside the bar and Peter's getting shot 3 times. And another innocent victim is shot in the chest?

Your not going to get an answer from them..they somehow think that demonizing Gregg somehow lets wirth off the hook.

to all of you standing up for the actions of luick and peters the facts are they started the problem that night if she would of kept her hands to herself, left when they went to leave, and didnt think wirth should get a ass kicking over not liking being touched by luick, none of this would have happened they would be alive and wirth would not be facing life in prison. wirth is not the only one who made poor decisions that night nor was he the first to make a [poor decision. luick with her poor choice of actions started the problem and all three have paid dearly for her poor actions. you bleeding nhearts are right nobody deserved to die that night, nobody deserved to have hands laid upon them against their wishes.

C.C. I addressed that concept in an earlier post which I had addressed to fathead:

Fathead, I'm with Heather on this one. From your statements, I assume that only cops should have the right to bear arms. If you do not believe that, then why, other than protection, would someone weild a handgun? They are not exactly used for hunting rabbits. I personally do not want weapons in my house, because I have the freedom to make that choice. However, I have nothing against people that do carry a weapon. I also fully understand that if you are willing to carry around a pistol, then you are fully prepared to use it if you feel that it is necessary. So your profiling of an individual that legally owns a firearm as a thug is irrational. I say that mainly because the "thugs" are the ones that usually DON'T legally own these firearms.

The second issue that I would like to discuss with you is the accusation that you made that portrayed Andrew Wirth as a cold-blooded killer. What makes you think this? A person who kills in cold blood NEVER waits for another person to instigate a situation before they take aim. And you freely admit that Peters asked Wirth to step outside. Which means that Andrew could not possibly have killed in cold blood. He never went that night searching for a victim. What in the facts that have been made public make you think that he did?

The issue isn't as simple as a fist justifying a bullet. The issue deals with all circumstances that led up to that point. 1. Jenni was having a good time, she was pinching people's rears. 2. She pinched Wirth's rear and he exchanged words with her or gave her a look that she was displeased with. 3. Jenni and Gregg were later leaving the bar when she told him about the incident with Wirth. 4. Jenni and Gregg returned to the bar and Wirth was asked to step outside. 5. Witnesses claim that Wirth revealed his weapon to the victims and told Gregg to "quit being so f-ing stupid." 6. Three shots were fired and Jenni and Gregg lost their lives.

As you see, this isn't just a matter of someone was shot because of a pinched butt and it also isn't a matter of someone was shot in cold blood or over a fist fight as you say. This was a complicated situation and alcohol was likely involved. This was a situation where someone who legally owned a firearm made the split second decision to use the force that he at that time felt was necessary to save his life. This wasn't cold blooded murder.

Isn't alcohol wonderful!

Jenn,

Well said!!! I couldn't agree more.

Thank you christmastime. They said that you had not answered their questions, but they had been adressed well before they were asked. However, I have yet seen a response to any of the stuff I said and asked other than the sarcastic remark about my "deep concern" and how C.C. didn't care about my opinion and wasn't addressing me! This just really cracks me up. It's almost as if the logical things that we say are being ignored. They pick one little remark out of our, well, your comments and assume that you are calling people names. I just found it funny that you were quoting witnesses and knew the facts, yet someone who didn't know the facts was telling you to read them.

yes wisconsin does have a right to carry law, as long as it is in the open and not concealled. look it up under state law. the reason peopl;e dont carry unconcealed in wisconsin is that the people who dont undestanmd the law make such a big deal about it, that it is just a hassle to carry. maybe if peters saw that wirth had a gun he would of just let it go the fact that wirth didnt want to be touched by luick or by peters. peters had no rite to try and put his hands on wirth. especially since he did nothing physical to peters or luick before they went outside. i still dont see how anyone can defend the actions of luick or peters wirth didnt want to be touched by the happy handed luick and said so, does that deserve, require, or warrant a ass kicking? luick and peters are to blame for all that happened that nite, NOW JUST LET IT DROP TILL AFTER THE TRIAL.

My question is still out there. It makes no sense to murder two people because, Ben,jenn said: " fact that wirth didnt want to be touched by luick or by peters. peters had no rite to try and put his hands on wirth." The few of you that argue Self-Defense for Wirth you people keep repeating yourselfs. Your stories are from your heart, no logic at all. When Wirth is behind bars, do not forget him, keep him in your pray's. Wirth will have a life time to remember Luick an Peter's life he cut short.

C.C. I'm not sure where you got that quote, but I didn't say it. I know how to spell "right." Also, we aren't repeating ourselves, we are repeating the known facts of the case which you so obviously ignore. We are, however, bringing up different situations and ideas that may help you at the very least understand our points even if you don't agree with them. I understand your point. I understand that you choose to ignore the facts of the case that might dispute your position and that you choose to focus on the ones that support it. That is fine. I'm so glad that Wirth will have a fair trial. I'm also glad that Jenni and Gregg will never be forgotten. I'm not glad that some are so quick to toss someone into prison for life because of a split second decision that could have cost him his own life. I can't wait until his speedy trial begins. I'm sure that he can't either.

I have read all the facts and the facts speak for it's self. Wirth will get a fair trial, as do most people that commit crimes. You people may reword your stories about Wirth but your stories are still the same. The two murdered victims started the fight, so Wirth had no other oppions other than shooting them to death? Call it what ever you want. Two people are dead because Wirth had a gun in a bar everyone was drinking including Wirth, Jenn pinched his Butt and Peter's told Wirth to come out side to fist fight. Not a gun fight but a Fist fight. Like I said, the few of you are thinking from your hearts, that's fine. But the fact is two people were shot to death and Wirth murdered them

C.C., how is it that you have "read all the facts," yet seemed to have missed important factors like eyewitnesses telling people that Wirth was trying to avoid the situation by saying "stop being so f-ing stupid?" Is that just a fact that you had missed? How many more facts have you missed? I'm very curious.

No Jenn, I got that alleged fact, said"stop being so f-ing stupid?"
State Attorney's Facts:
Everyone involved that night had been drinking.
Peter's tells Wirth to go outside, they are going to fist fight.
Wirth allegely says "stop being so f-ing stupid?"
Wirth pulls out his gun shoots Peter's 3 times.
First time Wirth shot Peter's took him to the ground, that was not enough for Wirth, he shoots Peter's 2 more times.
Jenn is outside, Wirth now turns the gun on Jenn points the gun at point blank range and shoots her to death in the chest.
Those are the facts

Jenn and Time will tell,
I thought you may want to read these statements?
Wirth told a detective that Peters confronted him and told him to step outside. Wirth also stated once outside, the last thing he remembers about the incident was Peters trying to touch him. However, several witnesses told police they saw Wirth threatening Peters with a gun, and one saw Wirth shoot Peters and Luick, according to the complaint.
Jenn and Time will tell Wirth never said a fist fight he said Peter' was trying to TOUCH HIM. Your righ I did not get that fact right. Witnesses SAID:" they saw Wirth threatening Peters with a gun." These are the Facts

Everyone keeps talking about "the facts". How are these for facts?

Fact: Christmastime has obviously taken Wirth's side, and is very vigilantly defending his self-defense argument. If she has no personal ties to the case, and there's a good reason for it (other than the fact that she's "heard" that Gregg was a hothead), she might care to explain why she feels so passionately that Wirth was acting in self defense. If not, she will continue to offend those of us who feel differently.

Fact: Andrew Wirth has a back injury. If that's the case, and he is truly unable to defend himself, why did he ever accept Peters' invitation to take things outside? He knew his gun would solve any problem he might encounter. (Read: NOT a responsible gun owner)

I am personally invested in this case (won't say how), and I will never try to defend Luick and Peters' actions that night, but unless it comes out in court that either one of them pulled a gun on Wirth, or even IMPLIED that they might, I hope he pays dearly for his poor decision...which is exactly what it was.

Goober said:
Facts, statements it will all come out in the trial. Wirth is going to Prison for a long time there is not question about that. You don't shoot someone 3 times in self-defense and go after another person that is completely defenseless and shoot her right in the chest. I do have a hard time with your choice of words Wirth made a poor decision?

Christmastime obviously has some sort of feelings for Wirth and her fiancee was right in telling her to not get involved (maybe she is a murder groupie?). And C.C. and fathead make more sense than those who are thinking with emotions. They are looking at the facts, not just emotions.

"Just sayin" said it best. If this was a drive by, would the person be any less guilty for pullin the trigger, even tho he didn't hit his intended target? No. Wirth killed two people.

He had a gun, in a BAR (who in the hell does that anyways), on a date (once again, who in the hell does that?!?!), got offened by a woman pinching his butt, he says something to the woman, she says something to her boyfriend, and boyfriend calls him outside for a FIST (not a gun fight), Wirth says "stop being so f...ing stupid" (what a great defense!),then proceeds to kill two people, and run. But oh, I forgot,he was remorseful. Yea, not enough to think "hey, I have a gun, maybe I should stay inside and call the cops instead of going out to fight, since I'm soooo disabled, and possibly using my gun". Yea, not buying it!

And if he was so "disabled" why would he go out to fight? Why was he even in a bar, drinking? I'm going to assume since he was disabled enough to not be able to fight, that he was on pain pills. Yea, pain pills and alcohol mix really good! I have an uncle who has a rod in his back and he can barely stand. And I have an aunt who has two major back sugeries and she too can barely stand. I realize that not everyone is the same, but come on! If he was so concerned about his back, he shouldn't have gone outside to fight.

Facts: jennifer pinched butt. Wirth says something to her. She says something to Gregg. Gregg calls Wirth outside. Wirth says to gregg "stop being so f...ing stupid". He then shoots two people to death. People have stated there was no actual fight, only Wirth sayin "stop being so f...ing stupid" to Gregg.

How does all that equal self-defense?!?!?! HE was the ONLY one with a gun. HE was the ONLY one who fired said gun. HE is the ONLY one alive to defend himself. HE is the ONLY one who can still live every day. He took that away from Jennifer and Gregg. Therefor, HE is the ONLY one guilty of murder, that's right murder, not self-defense.

True, had Jennifer and Gregg not done what they done, Wirth might not have shot them. But, in the end the facts are what they are, he did shoot them, and he killed them. Leaving a little boy without his mother.

I'm sorry to his family, but he brought this on himself when he pulled the trigger. He did the crime, he should do the time. That's the way the laws work.

Now, the trial is said to begin when? How about people quit repeating themselves? I realise that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but why beat a dead horse? No one is going to change anyone elses opinions. Hell, even if he is found guilty, you non-guilty people still wouldn't agree. And if he is found innocent and walks free (and I'm really hoping he doesn't get that), all the giutly people won't be satisfied. Do I believe he deserves life? Probably not. Do I think he deserves to get away scott free? Hell no! There was no actual fight, so its not self-defense. You cannot claim that when only words, not fists, are flying.

Now, everyone calm down, take a breath, get back to your lifes (does this story really need over 500 comments?), and wait for the verdict. None of us are on the jury (thank God) so its not like our opinions have any real weight on the verdict. Like I said, yes your entilted, but seriously, why beat a dead hosre?!?!?!

C.C.

Were you in the parking lot that night? Or did you interview the witnesses yourself? You are seriously reporting the facts as YOU and only you see them. Almost nothing you said in your last few posts have been said by the witnesses. Especially the part of Wirth shooting Peters once then while on the ground shooting him two more times, or that he purposely aimed the gun at Jenni.

Why are you reporting lies? It seems like you'll say anything to get people to agree with your point of view. Stop writing false facts!!!!!! Wait until the trial.

How did Just Sayin' say it best when he/she compared a drive by (someone driving by and shooting at people with the intent to kill someone) to an altercation at a bar between two random people? This logic is flawed. When a person participates in a drive by shooting, they leave their original location locked and loaded with the full intention of causing harm to another person. When a person legally owns a firearm and possesses such weapon at a bar and doesn't intentionally cause a fight, they do not even remotely compare to a person that is in a drive by. This theory wouldn't even make it to court.

Christmastime,
First of all I am not a reporter, second the facts are as they stand. Check out CNN. Now those are FACTS. I thought you were in Law School? Why don't you discuss this situation in your class? You may then get a complete understanding of the whole story. Wirth is a human being what he did that night there is no excuse for it, noone whats to see him die. We just want him to pay back society for the crime he committed.

The reason just sayin makes sense is because if you have a gun and it is loaded, you will, at some point, intend to use it. How do we know that he didn't intend to use it? Because he said so? How mnay people will really take a murderers word? I mean, why don't we just take the words of child molesters when they say "oh, the boy/girl seduced me". Because that's pretty much the same! And people keep sayin "oh he was remorseful". Yea I just bet he was! I'm sure I would cry too if I shot and killed someone! He is like the theif who got caught stealing. He isn't sorry for what he did, he is sorry he got caught. And before you defenders can say "well he turned himself in". No he didn't. He ran! If he was truely sorry for what he did, why didn't he stay and explain himself? Now, that to me, would be what someone who really thought his life was in danger and HAD to defend himself would do. No. Killers kill then run. He had a gun and had every intention on using it. Anyone who owns a gun knows that. You don't just buy one to look tough. You know that at some point in your life with that gun, your gonna use it. And for someone to take a LOADED gun into a bar just speaks volumes to someones morals.

And I'm sorry, but lookin at him and lookin at Peters I'm pretty sure he could have taken him. He looks well built. Peters looked overweight and middle aged.

And Christmastime, its obvious that you have some sort of emotions investsed in this case. If not you wouldn't being defending him so adamatly. How fair is it for you to sit there and accuse people of not stating facts when most of them have and then accuse them of only using emotions? If this wasn't so emtional to you, you wouldn't keep defending him and wait til the trial is over. Why do you care what a bunch of strangers think? I mean, in one of your earlier posts you say one commenter has mental issues but your on a website arguing with people about a guy you say you have never met? And you don't see that your gettin to close to this? Or that your thinking with only emotions?

Like I said, just let the trial happen and wait for the outcome. Its obvious that the majority of us werent there that night so really, can any of us state the facts, other than what has been in the media? To sit there and tell eachother we don't know the facts is just ludacris. Unless we were right there, none of us do, except what has been said in the media.

Just let the trial happen and leave it alone. That night is over with. Now all we can do is wait for the trial and the verdict.

I promised my family that I would not post on here any longer because it is upsetting so many people. I cannot help but know that grieving is normal and that there are different stages, but I feel that I have started emotions flying and need to put an end to it if I can. I am understanding and reading everyone's comments very carefully and want to address some comments. After reading comments, I realized I would be unable to function if I believed that someone intentionally killed a friend or family member of mine and then come to read people defending the person. I would be SICK. So I need to clarify with hopes others will get a clearer understanding of the tragedy.

I thought that I would use my education to assist me with making this comment one that leaves out emotions as much as possible by focusing on human behavior and trauma. This will allow my comment to be more objective, as C.C. feels that my comments are too full of emotion and not facts.

Please read with caution:

A female bar patron pinches someone's butt out of fun, only she does not know that person and that person happens to get really offended when people touch them.

Human behavior: an individual that pinches someones butt when they do not know the person, especially a person that looks like Mr. Wirth and has a "Nothing to Lose" tatoo across his neck, has limited boundaries and a lack of understanding for personal space (especially as individuals that have PTSD symptoms from assault/abuse can be triggered when touched by individual they do not know). Even further, the individual is an off duty police officer, thus her behaviors also demonstrated that she had some issues with abiding by the law she enforces. Not to say that she is a bad person, just made some mistakes that night.

The offended individual becomes verbally aggressive to express his feelings.

Human behavior: An individual that becomes that verbally aggressive and looks the way he does, probably does not want people touching him. Even further, his verbal aggression was a behavior warning that I will not allow anyone to push me around, even if it is a "playful butt grab"

Off duty police officer and boyfriend walk outside to leave with friends and testimony verifies that boyfriend and off duty police officer chose to go inside. Testimony then verifies that already sexually assaulted and angry individual is confronted to step outside.

Human Behavior: Off duty police officer and boyfriend choose to ask him to step outside to handle this physically. Off duty police officer continues to allow this behavior and proceeds outside with her boyfriend and individual she offended, although, she is fully aware of the law and of her boyfriends record for physical aggression (although everyone is attacking Mr. Wirth for not calling the POLICE). Most would agree, boyfriend with such history is wiling to beat those weaker than him and most likely wins, thus making him believe he will win again. And he will then satisfy the anger he feels and takes out on others. Officer chose not to call police or prevent it, or even disclose she was a police officer, thus demonstrating she did not want to put an end to the fight.

The already offended individual who showed he will not be pushed around ends up outside with the boyfriend and the police officer, who is again ENABLING her boyfriend to break the law. When there is a history of enabling behaviors, individuals are more likely to increase those behaviors in frequency and intensity if it is meeting a need (releasing anger and pain).

Testimony verifies Mr Wirth had a weapon and was saying stop being so stupid. Testimony verifies Wirth was seen backing up from a physical altercation with Peters and Wirth was seen waving his weapon from side to side.

Human behavior: When threatened to the point of feeling that your life is at risk, individuals with knowledge of self protection (and practice shooting guns, as Responsible gun owners do when they purchase a weapon for self protection) they scan their environment for protection and then get out as soon as possible.

It is verified that Mr. Wirth did not know about Officer being a victim and it is known that Mr. wirth demonstrated behaviors of trauma and remorese immediatly following. He also cooperated entirely with the legal system.

Human Behavior: Not evidence of intentional homicide or evidence of insincerity in regards to Mr. Wirth.

Now I know others will continue to say, why did Mr. wirth have a gun that night if he did not intend on using, which is not a logical statement considering why American value the right to bear arms.

Others will continue to say, why would he step outside if he has a back problem. Irrelevent due to how events proceeded once they were outside and irrelevent due to the same could be said for Peters and the officer.

I Know Andrew more than ANYONE on here. I know he is in extreme emotional pain due to the officer losing her life and due to the events leading to him needing to protect himself. His verbal aggression no doubt escalated Peters physical aggression. I will even take it a step further to satisfy those individuals unable to accept that he had a back problem and say, I KNOW that Mr. Wirth would have enjoyed physically fighting, not killing, Peters if he were well enough physically. I can say I would have enjoyed physically fighting, not hurting or killing, Peters as His behaviors that night and his history show that he could have benefited from that or incarcaration. I know i am condoning vigilante behavior by saying i would fight someone with such disregard for people, but I feel the need to make that point due to others on here indicating Wirth should have fought him physically.

Now please, let the trial occur. It will truly allow those most closely impacted to grieve. I am grieving okay b/c I know what I know. I do not want to hurt anyone anymore than they are already hurting, but I feel the need to post when it is so apparent that there are individuals on here grieving with significant anger due to the feeling that Mr. Wirth intended on the tragedy.

Thank you Heather for your comments. This is my last time posting for a while and I also want to say something about human behavior to address Oh enough already. My first husband killed himself and I walked in and found him. My first reaction was not to call the police. My first reaction was to run to my neighbor's house. That is exactly what I did. I didn't call 911. I was in shock and could barely even talk. I didn't avoid calling them because of guilt or fear that I had done something wrong. Based on many studies, it is not common for someone to run from a scene. Mainly because they can't bear the sight of what happened even if death didn't occur. People often get scared and run. That is not abnormal. That also doesn't prove that someone wasn't willing to work with officials once they are able to better handle the situation.

Enough already, I agree that people that bear arms carry them with the full intent on using them if the need arises. That is part of the whole ideology. Protection. Several members of my family are cops. They carry guns with them everywhere. The rest of my family with the exception of me and my sister have permits to possess a firearm and all of them take their guns with them everywhere. I choose not to because I could personally live the rest of my life never seeing another individual with a wound from a bullet. You see, I make the choice to not own weapons because I know that one day, it might come down to a situation where the weapon is needed. I would rather suffer than have those visions in my head again. That being said, how do we know that Mr. Wirth was not in fear of his life? Do we make that assumption just because he had the gun at a bar? If I made that assumption, then I would have to think that my father is a cold blooded killer, he just hasn't met his victim yet.

Heather and Jenn - Thanks for sharing your personal stories with us. I seriously, hope that no one on this blog is heartless enough to attack either of you for sharing your experiences with us. If they do, please ignore them. We all have the right to our own opinions. I pray for all those hurt by this tragedy. Very sad all around.

Jenn christmastime Time will tell
You people always seem to leave out what Wirth said that night in his own words to the POLICE:
You keep talking about testimony and witnesses;" How do you explain Wirth's own accounts for that night?"
The first is what you picked out the second is what the police have on record.

1.)Testimony verifies Mr Wirth had a weapon and was saying stop being so stupid.

2.)Wirth told a detective that Peters confronted him and told him to step outside. Wirth also stated once outside, the last thing he remembers about the incident was Peters trying to touch him. However, several witnesses told police they saw Wirth threatening Peters with a gun, and one saw Wirth shoot Peters and Luick, according to the complaint.

Ok, I lied. This is my last post on this article for a while.

C.C., would you have preferred that he just simply brought out the gun and started randomly shooting or warning the people that he had one and he would use it if he had to (i.e. "stop being so f-ing stupid")? In my opinion, the statement you have above shows that he was at least responsible enough to tell them that he was armed and they should back off. It also shows that he was responsible enough to not just walk around shooting at random people just because he is angry. Since people have mentioned that he suffers from PTSD, I assume he has some kind of formal training with weapons, since a lot that suffer from PTSD have been in the military. That being said, him warning them to back off was him following standard protocol. Him using the gun at a time when he felt he needed too was also part of his training. I say that as if he did have military training. I honestly don't know. I do know that since he gave out a verbal warning before taking aim means to me that he wasn't doing anything in cold blood. Now, there may very well be a fine line between threatening with a weapon and warning that the owner will use it, but I still can't see this as premeditated or intentional.

Jenn,
No Jenn he was not responsible at all. No one takes a loaded gun to a bar where you will be drinking. No one should take a loaded gun anywhere in a public place like he did. His statement shows he was the aggressor once Peter's and Wirth went outside; The responsible thing should have been Wirth calling the police. Not shooting two people to death. I know you can't see that because he is your bother, but that is what he did. I would still love my family member if they killed someone, but I would also want them to pay for what they did. I am looking at the little boy that lost his mother, he is a small child. Your bother is an adult and made an adult discussion to take two people's lives. PTSD is no excuse for murdering two people, even more reason he should not have had a gun. And those of you who knew he had one should have done everything in your power to get it away from him. If that meant calling the police informing them he was unfit to carry a gun.

C.C., I'm not related to anyone involved in this tragedy. In fact, I don't even live anywhere near where this occurred. The whole story just piqued my interest and everyone's different views just escalated my interest even more. I find it very interesting that people who have no connections to this case have all different views. That just proves to me that the jury will also be very diverse. I feel very bad for Jenni and Gregg's families. I really sympathize with them as I too have lost loved ones very close to me, albeit by different means. My whole point to that was that the people who are licensed to carry firearms don't always leave them at home. These people also know and understand that these weapons can be a means for protection if the need arises. My father, while not carrying a gun into the bar has taken his gun in his vehicle while going to a bar. My father rarely drinks though, but still. The main reason we go to said bar is because my uncle, a cop, plays in a band sometimes there. I know many people that carry weapons everywhere they go except on federal property where it isn't allowed. I also know that those people are not afraid to use their weapons if they feel they are at risk. I guess I'm just saying that we don't know that he didn't feel his life was in danger, but that we do know that he gave off warning before any shots were ever fired.

C.C.,

Now I am a little offended and for multiple reasons, so I will definately try not to allow my anger to show thru my response to your comment that was probably addressed to me rather than Jenn. I am not Jenn, so I want to make that very clear to YOU. I now see why who emotionally attached you are would impair your thought process causing you to address Jenn as Andrew's sister.

I would like to first address your comment to me by stating that it is truly terrible that so many people are so deeply impacted by this tragedy forever.

That is why I am so passionate about exposing the truth so that individuals can truly learn how three personalities led to the loss of two lives, and yes, our countries constitional right to bear arms also led to such. By educating people about the importance of personal space, appropriate confrontation skills rather than strong verbal aggression, the importance of not letting emotions and alcohol impair judgement to the point of sexually assaulting an individual or to the point of allowing a fight to occur (and I am very EAGER to know the blood alcohol level of all, as I BELIEVE it was testimony that the couple involved were at the bar for hours drinking and that my brother was served one drink). Remember every single person present, including witnesses, did not call police knowing that a physical altercation was going to occur. Point the finger at one, point it at all.

Now to address the comment that you have made to me about how I or my family are to blame for not notifying authorities that my brother owned a gun.

I will keep this brief and short to address that comment, as that comment is more than irrational and illogical, but it also lacks empathy for my brother, my family and myself. I have tried to be objective when addressing you, but you do nothing but blame.

I do not for one second think that my brother should not have owned that gun. I will go on the record to testify that my brother's life led to him being physically assaulted while living in Wisconsin, the first area he resided when placed there for job placement. After that, he spoke to my family openly about purchasing the gun. And YES, as a responsible sister and professional social worker, I assessed for his thought process in regards to making that decision and I also assured that he was being treating psychiatrically to assure that those professional appropriate for such assessments and gun safety laws would be most equiped to address such issues with my brother. I acted ethically in regards to my brother's needs, as I would have acted unethically had I attempted to treat my brother's psychiatric issues (chemical imbalance and PTSD)

Now again, my brother and my family are truly sorry for the lives lost. We understand that all three strong personalities led to that tragedy, but we also KNOW that my brother in NO way intentionally killed any individual that evening.

Time will tell,
I forgot to put your name on my last post. Sorry. I am not accusing you or your family of not taking or calling the police on your bother in regards to his gun. My question is why if you knew he had PTSD none of you did not stop him from getting it? Off the subject for just a moment; My oldest bother is paranoid schizophrenic. He has done things that were bad, against the law. He did not murder anyone but close to it. I love him as does all of my family, but we know he is where he needs to be. He is on medication and will not hurt anyone else where he is at. I believe that you have stated that your bother suffered from mental issues. That in it's self said that he should have never owned a gun. Why would he take a gun on a date to a bar? I have said and many others have said it a 100 times Jennifer, should have never pinched his BUTT. Once Peter's told Andrew to step outside Andrew should have call the POLICE! Lets say for your sake Andrew shot Peter's in self-defense. Jennifer was shot because, WHAT? I am not going to keep repeating myself, nor do I want to have you repeat yourself. You love your bother, that we all know. If you love him as much as you say you do make it easier on him, except his situation and support him. The more you fight it, the more he will feel guilty over the situation he put his family in.