This may be the last story I read on TCR as I am getting tired of the numerous grammatical errors. It's called proof-reading; ever heard of it?

At least you could spell the poor victim's name correctly. Who are his parents? Grandparents?

I hate when there are not more deatils, but it sounds like a sad case. And Don Baker should get a life. Go somewhere else...who really cares!

This is my hometown... It's the first murder to occur there in 15 years.

Another child who has no business tuning in to Showtime or any other cable movie channel.

Many children are forced to grow up well before their time because their parents are too stupid to keep some of the ugliness of the world at bay. Instead they allow their children to view anything and everything - be it on the computer, cable, or a DVD.

Give your children some sense of innocence and room to grow. They will be better off for it and grow into much more well-adjusted adults.

Does sound familiar, I said that publicizing stories like these is going to give sick people ideas. I bet it did.

I don't see what the big deal with remorse and such is. Prosecutors are so full of shit.

Give the writer a break. He is getting the point and info. across.

Hey look, alyssa bustamante had a rough past that you ppl dont know about, was very depressed, mentally ill and on controversial mind-altering drugs that have been linked with suicide, homicide, and other behavioral side effects. they work for some people but arent for everyone apparently. she is very intelligent and can benifet from rehab.

This doof did a senseless murder and he can be persecuted. Do not compare alyssa with this loser.

Regardless I'm so POED they aren't protecting the identity of minors, it doesn't matter if they're charged as adults or not they are still underage and need to be protected.

Go ahead and compare these two cases - I did and I have been tracking such cases for two decades with a database at www.ssristories.com. Thousands of them like this ALL ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS - drugs that are the most similar in action we have ever seen to PCP. What do you think "homicidal ideation" as a side effect means? It is constant ruminating thoughts of killing and how to kill. And we wonder why our kids are killing each other?

Do you recall the brother (10) and sister (15) in Dallas about a decade ago who killed their little brother (7)? Both of the kids were on Paxil. When did kids begin being implicated in cases like this? When we began drugging them! DON'T YOU DARE BLAME THESE KIDS!! THEY ARE THE INNOCENT ONES. WE ARE AT FAULT AS A SOCIETY TO ALLOW IT!!

Am I sick of seeing them?! YOU BET I AM! There is no reason for it other than $$$$$ means far more than the lives of either of these boys or Alyssa or Elizabeth or etc. - the list is far too long after two decades of drugging. How many more must die before we wake up?!!

Ann Blake-Tracy, PhD, Executive Director,
International Coalition for Drug Awareness
www.drugawareness.org & www.ssristories.com

Yes, there are some problems with medication, especailly anti-depressants for children. But I was on prozac from the time I was 12 til about 16, and while I don't think I really felt better, I never killed anyone. I was then put on zoloft and saw an improvement, but still no homicidal thoughts. They are just like anyother medicine out there. What works for me, might not work for the next person. I have migraines and the traditional over the counter medicines don't even touch them anymore. But several other people I have talked to say they work better than pain med I have to take.

I do not believe that the fault lay entirely on the medication. There are many factors to take in. Parents, school, friends, community, church or lack of church, the wrong crowd........too many to name.

I also disagree that we shouldn't compare this boy to alyssa. They both killed for crazy reasons. Alyssa to see how it felt; Andrew because he thought he was Dexter. There aren't any similarities? Now, I still think both these murders could have been prevented, but blaming anything other than the actual person is just wrong. No matter where they went wrong in life, they are still in the wrong. Many other people have had far worse lifes and saw far worse things, and they haven't killed anyone.

Is it not also wrong to give these "children" an excuse to do what they did? If we keep giving people like this, no matter their age, excuse after excuse, they will keep repeating their crimes. And why do you anti-medication people always come to the "rescue" of children? Most of the bipolar/ anti-depressive medications I have been on/tried always say there is an increase risk of suicidal thoughts in children and people up to the age of 24. If alyssa and andrew were 21, would you still be defending them? I doubt it.

And by everything that I have read, alyssa wasn't on anything for a while when she killed poor elizabeth. So if that's true, there goes your whole theory of it being the medicine.

But thank you to the Tom Cruise wanna-be's. Way to put your theories out there anyways. Next you will be saying chemo isn't really nessecary for cancer patients...........

"doesnt completely agree" prozac increases the risk of suicide in teens but you didnt commit suicide either did you ? you said you were on prozac and never killed anyone many people take prozac without that side effect
the figure for it would obviously be small

you also said "and by everything that I have read, alyssa wasn't on anything for a while when she killed poor elizabeth."

withdrawl from these meds has also been linked to behavioral side affects too.

and btw i have not found anything that confirms this is true "and by everything that I have read, alyssa wasn't on anything for a while when she killed poor elizabeth."

Alyssa was most likely on some sort of anti medication. The SSRI anti depressants are definitely a problem. I myself was nearly killed by Paxil at age 19 and thats not even getting into the withdrawal syndrome. Paxil, which I told the doctors I didnt need yet they forced upon me and at the time the doctors were told Paxil was the "safest anti depressant with the least side effects". That is how Paxil was marketed. Yet it gave me more problems that then did fit their false diagnosis. The problem ended up being pernicious anemia a very serious inability to absorb b12.

The bigger problem however is doctors who instead of caring about their patients and doing a good job just shrug off their responsibilities onto other doctors or crappy drugs. If doctors on the whole cared to do their job or even listen to their patients, 90 percent of people wouldn't be chronically ill with anything. And I work as a nurse so I am not just coming from a patient standpoint.

Regardless of that, there will always be some evil people in this world and the quicker we keep them in jail and execute them the better.

As for the misspelling, seriously Pete, if you can't do your editing, hire someone to. It takes away a lot from your site here.

Oh and I think "Dr. Blake" is a self promoting nut. Probably looking for donations.

A good doctor who cared would have written something much more worthwhile and meaningful to people to educate them about the issue without using 3 links to their site.

co2,
Yes, they both should be compared to one another. They both murdered innocent young children. These children did not get the chance to come from bad childhoods, take antidepressants. Their lives were taken from them because these killers wanted to kill. Make any excuse you want, but their past and present behavior says it all. She wanted to see what it was like to kill someone, he wanted to be Dexter. I know lets put them in BABY PRISON UNTIL THEY ARE 25 YEARS OLD, SO THEY CAN GET OUT AND MOVE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

Don Baker? Do you have anything better to do than correct grammar? I mean there are more important things going on in the world. If all I had to worry about was grammar I would be a happy person. You need to get a life. Something is wrong with you. I didn't see any major grammar issues. I'm sure you will find something wrong with mine.

mellie,

The 3 links to our site (a non-profit educational organization) was to let you know where to go to become educated. My book is almost 500 pages long indicating just how much information there is available on antidepressants. As widespread as the use of these drugs are EVERYONE ON THE PLANET should know at least as much as there is in my book although there was no mention of my book in my post. I also did not mention that I have worked such high profile cases in an expert witness capacity as comedian Phil Hartman's murder/suicide, the Columbine & Red Lake school shootings along with MANY more, Princess Di's death, the murder/suicide of the Royal Family of Nepal - just to mention a small handful.

I have devoted 20 years of my life to this battle to educate in spite of the suppression of truth that exists to protect profit. And I have mortgaged my own home three times to fund it. Anyone who knows me would tell you how completely off base you are in your judgement of me personally.

(By the way one thing you should know is that migraines are a result of high serotonin levels making antidepressants a very poor choice of treatment. And Paxil is NOTORIOUS for causing such terrible headaches that many quit the drug because of that.)

If you don't have time to search the information on our site I will post for you my testimony before the FDA that will explain in a nutshell how these drugs produce murder and suicide. Another critical point to understand is that 7% - 10% of the population lack the enzyme necessary to break down antidepressants causing them to hit toxic levels of the drugs and produce serious adverse reactions. The test for that enzyme is not given before use by patients leaving at least 7% - 10% of antidepressant users and those around them at risk.

_________________________________

Dr. Ann Blake Tracy’s September 13, 2004 to the FDA

I am Ann Blake Tracy, PhD, head of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness. I am the author of Prozac: Panacea or Pandora? – Our Serotonin Nightmare and have testified in court cases involving antidepressants for 12 1/2 years. The last 15 years of my life have been devoted full time to researching and writing about SSRI antidepressants.

Research on serotonin has been clear from the very beginning that the most damaging thing that could be done to the serotonin system would be to impair one?s ability to metabolize serotonin. Yet that is exactly how SSRI antidepressants exert their effects.

For decades research has shown that impairing serotonin metabolism will produce migraines, hot flashes, pains around the heart, difficulty breathing, a worsening of bronchial complaints, tension and anxiety which appear from out of nowhere, depression, suicide – especially very violent suicide, hostility, violent crime, arson, substance abuse, psychosis, mania, organic brain disease, autism, anorexia, reckless driving, Alzheimer?s, impulsive behavior with no concern for punishment, and argumentative behavior.

How anyone ever thought it would be “therapeutic” to chemically induce these reactions is beyond me. Yet, these reactions are exactly what we have witnessed in our society over the past decade and a half as a result of the widespread use of these drugs.

In fact we even have a whole new vocabulary as a result with terms such as “road rage,” “suicide by cop,” “murder/suicide,” “going postal,” “false memory syndrome,” “school shooting,” “bi-polar” – every third person you meet anymore – along with the skyrocketing rates of antidepressant-induced diabetes and hypoglycemia.

Can you remember two decades ago when depressed people used to slip away quietly to kill themselves rather than killing everyone around them and then themselves as they do while taking SSRI antidepressants?

A study out of the University of Southern California in 1996 looked at a group of mutant mice in an experiment that had gone terribly wrong. These genetically engineered mice were the most violent creatures they had ever witnessed. They were born lacking the MAO-A enzyme which metabolizes serotonin. As a result their brains were awash in serotonin. This excess serotonin is what the researchers determined was the cause for this extreme violence. Antidepressants produce the same end result as they inhibit the metabolism of serotonin.

These are extremely dangerous drugs that should be banned as similar drugs have been banned in the past.

As a society we once thought LSD and PCP to be miracle medications with large margins of safety in humans. We have never seen drugs so similar to LSD and PCP as these SSRI antidepressants. All of these drugs produce dreaming during periods of wakefulness. It is believed that the high serotonin levels over stimulate the brain stem leading to a lack of muscle paralysis during sleep thus allowing the patient to act out the dreams or nightmares they are having. The world witnessed that clearly in the Zoloft-induced murder-suicide of comedian Phil Hartman and his wife, Brynn.

Connecticut witnessed the Prozac-induced case of Kelly Silk several years ago. This young mother attacked her family with a knife, then set the house on fire killing all but her 8 year old daughter who ran to the neighbors. As she stood bleeding and screaming for help she explained, “Help! My mommy is having a nightmare!”

Out of the mouths of babes we will understand these nightmares for what they are. She understood that this was something her mother would do ONLY in a nightmare, never in reality.

This is known as a REM Sleep Behavior Disorder. In the past it was known mainly as a drug withdrawal state, but the largest sleep facility in the country has reported that 86% of the cases they are diagnosing are patients on antidepressants.

Because this was known in the past as a condition manifesting mainly in drug withdrawal you should see how dangerous the withdrawal state from these drugs will prove to be. That is why it is so critical to make sure patients are weaned EXTREMELY slowly so as to avoid ANY chance of going into a withdrawal state.

I agree with KPR. Showtime!? Our parents would NEVER let us watch that trash.

so sad the condition of these kid mind frame today, this young man who feels he has to admire someone of that type of mind needs JESUS for sure.

I hope he dies.

Dr. Ann, I beg to differ... I understand that drugs have different effects on different people. If I were not on my Zoloft I would be a crying, mean, ball of attitude. I know, as I have tried on many occassions to wean myself off of them. Prior to being prescribed, I went through the loss of 3 family members within 6 months. One of those family members was diagnosed with severe depression with psychotic episodes. It was too much for me to handle and my doctor prescribed Zoloft. I'm not sure how I would be able to cope without them. Again, I have tried to wean off several times, but two to three weeks into the process, it is nothing but raw nerves.

I have never wanted to harm myself or others since I've been on zoloft, but when I have tried to get off of them, it is sheer hell.

I understand your deep concerns about the SSRIs, and their negative effects on some people, but there are scores of people like myself that are helped by these pills.

Where is it indicated that this boy was on antidepressants?

this is sick and confuseing i dont understand how someone could just kill someone like that and not care at all i hope he gets the death penalty

I agree with Dr. Blake-Tracy on this topic because of my own experiences with Paxil and Prozac. I have not read her book yet but I have read Prozac Backlash and recommend it. I, like most people have an angry side, as this teenager surely did. However drugs like Prozac can push ones thoughts to focus intensely on thougths of homicide and suicide. Ever since I quit the drugs, I have never cut myself or had to urge to kill others like I did on Prozac and Paxil. I can't say my case is the norm but that's my experience. It's an epidemic of drug abuse in this country and yet doctors had SSRIs out like candy.

But Matt....

Do you agree that your experience may not be like everyone else's experience? Do you agree that your experience may not even be the common experience?

I am not a physician or involved in the medical field in any way so I want to qualify all of my further comments by saying that my technical knowledge in this area is very limited. However, from what I understand, even in my profession, when some item (whether it is medicinal, edible, drivable, etc.) enters the market for general public use, the people who provide this product have weighed risks of use. This means that they take into consideration all liablility that can be put on their company for their product. In other words, they do substantial testing (in the case of meds, through the FDA) to determine any detrimental side effects from their products (in cars, recalls are considered in this manner). What is the overall risk to the population by providing this product? How many people are outside the "norm" that could be harmed by this product? Therefore, I believe that the number of people who are harmed or have negative side effects from meds are considerably low compared to the number of people who can take the meds without any further problems (as long as they follow directions or guidelines provided by the company as far as the manner of use for the product). Therefore, my conclusion is that although there could be horrible side effects in some people taking these drugs, I do not for one second believe that we can strike them out completely.

In addition, I do not believe that we can just sit back and blame mental condition for people's actions (nor medication). I understand that we cannot control our thoughts. I do however understand that we can control our actions. There are plenty of people out there that have thought about killing themselves (maybe even thought of killing others); however, there are plenty that never did it because they can control that action and have deemed it unnecessary, selfish, whatever other reasons they chose.

The last sentence of this story irritates me. What qualifies as evil to you? Stupid question from an obviously stupid writer!

I agree with jadensmokes. While I am not currently on any medication because I don't have insurance, I would love to be on some right now. They make me "normal" and able to cope with every day tasks. My bipolar is not something that can be handled without medication/therapy. I have tried and it does not work. I end up worse than I was before and it makes everyone in my life miserable.

When I am on them I do not sit around and cry all the time. I do not think I'm worthless. I love life and am a much better person when I am on my meds. And I have tried many. Prozac (which did not give me suicidal thoughts or homicidal thoughts), Zoloft, Zyprexa, Lithium and Seroquel. When I wss prescribed Lithium I looked at numerous reviews for it. There were a lot of people it worked for. Sadly for me, after only 4 days, I had to stop taking it due to the side effects. I did the same when I was prescribed Seroquel. All I did for a week was sleep and again I was taken off of it. So, just because something workes for one person, does not mean it will work for the next.

I do not believe in people telling others they don't need medications for their mental illness. I have a cousin who went to college to become a phsycologist. While she isn't one right now, she thinks she needs to tell me I do not need medication, that no one needs it. I simply tell her that yes I do feel I need it, because without it I am a horrible mess.

As for comparing andrew and alyssa, I think both cases are similar. She wanted to kill to see what it felt like; he felt he "needed" to to satisfy something. But in the end they both killed because they wanted to. So where is the difference?

But, unlike with alyssa's case where they said she had been on prozac like months or even a year before she murdered elizabeth, does it state that andrew was on any type of medication?

I am on antidepressants, and I am a teen, Its a matter of knowing right from wrong her Miss. I have had thoughts about killing people, but you know, I do not because I know it is wrong...

These kids are soulless.
End of story.

Go F yourself Seth. Its probably the only one who will do it to you anyway you racist piece of shit.

Melissa, that was very articulate. Good for you. Either you're in 9th grade or you're just 9. How many people did your mama have to give it up to to get your corn-rows? Are you and "Cheyenne" friends? Do you bake cats too? Ever taken a crack hit?

When you can prove to me that black people are NOT a f'in blight (that means "bad thing") on American society, I'd love to hear it. But I'll bet you can't.

Look at the trash on this website. Look at the blackness. F'in expensive pieces of useless sh't. Get jobs. And when you get jobs, SAVE your f'in money so people like me won't have to pay for your worthless asses to live in the projects and do crack in the stairwells....

In the meantime, I'll be in Barcelona in a hot tub with a bottle of Dom (white people don't drink nigger Cristal)...with an ASIAN woman...

Enjoy Compton...

I am 41, with brown curly hsir, green eyes and the whitest skin you probably have ever seen given my Irish and English roots. I am college educated and live in Northern NJ and have a pretty good job in the accounting field, with one of the Big 4 Firms.

And I am not a racist. BTW, Northern NJ is about as far away from Compton CA that YOU can think of.

Do you like Asian women because they are supposedly submissive btw? The ones I work for arent and would kick your ass.

Excuse my typo's - I was on the phone with my father, who was telling me the evil's of my life lol.

Sorry for the PPS. But SETH. I am 1/2 Spanish. As well as my 1/4's of English and Spanish.

Where did your hate come from?

At least you were multi-tasking and appear to not be a jungle-bunny. That's a welcome change. Sort of.

Betraying your ignorance, Asian women aren't really all that "supposedly submissive". Maybe getting a passport and flying out of Teaneck or Hackensatt or Piscataway or wherever it it the f'k you live would open your mind up a bit. In the meantime, please continue balancing ledgers for the assholes at Citigroup.

Haven't seen any incidents in any part of Asia recently involving 17-year olds killing their little brothers. Have you?

Open your worldview, get off the phone with your dad, stop doing cashflow statements for jerkoff Jersey corporations and wake up...

Juat what we need. Pale-skinned Engish-Irish 3rd generations who's idea of travel is going to Orlando to see Mickey.

Its called Hackensack FYI. And havent been to Orlando since I was 8.

And none of my clients are Citigroup. I dont need to explain my travels to you or where I have gone.

And thank you for calling me skinny you racist piece of shit.

And no, I dont do eastern cultures, I just eat the food that they perfect in Manhattan.

And CitiGroup is a BANK, not an accounting firm. Idiot.

Melissa and everyone else,

Just ignore seth. I could sit here all day and think of things to say about him, but then that gives him pleasure. Just do what I do, scroll past his comments and on to the next one.

Yes, Citi is a bank. But they need to be audited. By one of the "Big 4" accounting firms that you claim to work for. Or do you think they certify their accounts themselves?

In my previous postings, I don't see where I've called you "skinny". I suspect you aren't.

You meet every standard of the "ignorant, overweight, American female" that could possibly be projected.

I love you. Really, I do. You're just such an ignorant American female.

Can't wait for your next post.

PS: "Pale-skinned" means you're quite white. It doesn't mean you're "skinny"- which I very much doubt you're not

No, I am not skinny. I am a size 8 to 10. Not fat, but average size. And am hardly ignorant.

YOU are the one that are grouping black people into a group.

And It tells tales that YOU are not American. So fuck off Seth, you Un-American POS.

Only racists in my community are considered ignorant. So there you go.

Noo, I am not skinny. Nor do I want to be. I am not fat either for that matter.

And I find YOU very ignorant. Because you obviously do not work with people of all races and faiths.

And I am whiter than some black people I work for, so there you go.

You are such an ignorant racist.

Marie - Sorry - I was having fun too. I will ignore him from here on out.

Melissa,

Yea when I read some of the comments on the Hope story between "seth" and wow, I found it a little funny. But then I just got tired of him!

Yes, he is quite exhausting. I find him offensive, and the fact that he doesnt know that African American folks can be paler than Euros makes me laugh. But yes, its tiring.

On a last note. Charlize Theron is African American.

Seth - dont bother to respond, you are not clever.

Melissa,Seth
First of all melissa you may work for the big 4 in accounting;however it most be picking up the mail. Charlize Theron is not African American as you are claiming black. Her mother is of German descent and her father was of French and Dutch ancestry. That makes her very white. She is from Benoni South Africa,she became a American citizen in 2007. As for you Seth you are just out to piss people off to have something to do with your time. Stop F...ing the cows and get a job.
Back to the topic,MS.Ann Blake Tracy, who cares what you wrote or what you testified for the FDA about in regards to Antidepressants. These two Bastards killed two innocent children. They both figured out in advance how they were going to murder these two children and did it. The both of them were also going to kill more people. She dug two graves and he was going to kill his father. Stop blamming TV, RX, Doctors, Education, bad childhoods or mental problems. Millions of young and old a like have had it a hell of a lot worse and did not take another humans life. She just wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone or he wanted to kill, because he wanted to be like someone on TV. No little boy and girl prison for them until they are 25 years old. Right off to big boy and girl prison for them for the rest of their lives or with any luck DEATH ROLL!

It's just so easy to bait the hook. After two or three postings, the majority see it my way and do my bidding....

And Cheyenne...? Put her away for a few weeks in some sort of ward. Let her out for a week or two until she starts baking people, and THEN give her the sleepy-goodbye drug that she so deserves....

what if meds were responsible for these kids killig, why should they be held fully accountable? to be an example for other kids? that's not fair.
and it will probably have no affect either, just like how punishing teens causes rebellion, while kindness and firmness work.

I think some people may need help with depression but there are herbal medications that do not produce the side effects that SSRI's do.
St. John's Wort sold at most drug stores really helped me with the sadness and crying that I was experiencing. I usually only need one a day but if things are very bad and I start getting sad again I will take two for a few days.

Kelle, Seth,
First, Kelle You are a complete Moron. Children or adults that are taking antidepressants do not kill people. Lets let these little miss understood darlings move right next store to you and your family. You can love and show them kindness and firmness while they are murdering your family.
Please don't forget to UNDERSTAND THEM THEY ARE ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS!
Second, Seth, you have been busy fucking the cows, you are on the wrong topic. FOCUS.

If I have said it once I said it a hundred times SETH leave the cows a lone.

Once again, am I missing something here? Where in this story did it say anything about him being on any medication? As far as I can tell, it never said that. And I'm so sick and tired of people thinkin that we should give these "children" a break. Even IF some of them are on medication, that is not an excuse. They did the crime they should do the time. If they need help, they can get it in prison, not juvie. They ended someones life, in this case very brutally, so why should we give them a break?

I agree with the comment above that some people have had it a lot worse than these "children" and do not kill people.

Move on from the antidepressants, people. If you want to make agruments against them, go somewhere else. It says nothing about them in this story. Some of us need them and no "herbal" medicine is gonna help, believe me, I tried.

And Kelle, you are a moron. Punishing children causes rebellion? Let's love them and "make" them better?! I really hope your not a mother. If you are I imagine that your kid(s) are the ones who run rampant in the stores because you would rather love them than disipline them. You can love and disipline them and they can turn out as productive members of society. In my opinion not punishing kids these days is one of the problems. We want to say "oh they have it so rough" or "they are just kids, they don't know any better." Face it, sometimes people are just bad apples, who do bad things, and need to be punished, no matter what excuses people come up with.

If one of these "children" did something horrible to someone you loved, especailly your young child, I guarantee you would not be defending them. I sure as hell know I wouldn't. You hurt my child, be prepared to have a world of hurt. I MAY be able to forgive you, but that doesn't mean you still don't have to pay.

Yes, "confused" according to experience people who actually know what they are talking about Read the book "Positive Discipline for Teenagers" it has very effective parenting techniques

Here is some info from some one who actually has experience to explain to you.

Control and punishment do not work with teenagers. As parents, we get very scared when we see the dangers in the world for teenagers. We are fearful that our rebellious children will ruin their lives forever. When we try to stop the rebellion through control and punishment, even though we have good intentions, we only make things worse. Control invites rebellion either overt or covert.
Many people think the only alternative to control and punishment is permissiveness.Permissiveness is not healthy for children nor for adults.
Demonstrate kindness and firmness at the same time. Kindness translates to conveying a feeling of unconditional love to your child. Firmness with teenagers often means deciding what YOU will do instead of what you will try to make THEM do. (At one point, I said to my son,"If you go to jail, I will love you and I will bring you cookies; but I will not bail you out.")
Have faith in your child and her ultimate goodness and her ultimate ability to work things out.Teach her that mistakes are wonderful opportunities to learn and that it is never too late to learn. Let your know about your love and your concerns (without lecturing), and let her know you are there to listen if she ever feels like talking. Then LISTEN if she takes you up on it.
Have family meetings or joint problem-solving sessions. Sometimes you need to stop dealing with problems until you can build the relationship by conveying unconditional love.
Learn to let go without abandoning. We wish we could get parents of teens to understand that by this age control is too late. The more parents control, the more teenagers sneak around.When you give up control, and get across the message of unconditional love, then you can still have influence.
Focus on long-range parenting results instead of short-term control. We know many teenagers who did not rebel when they were at home, but "party" like crazy when they get into college. Others never rebel and become "approval junkies."
I'm not trying to make light of rebellion. There is healthy rebellion and unhealthy rebellion. Often parents can't tolerate even healthy rebellion (such as the clothes they wear, their sullen attitudes, their lack of interest in spending time with the family, messy rooms, hours on the phone, etc.) and push their kids into more destructive rebellion because of parental disapproval, control, and punishment.Children usually come back to most of their parents' values if they have been treated with kindness, firmness, and faith in their ultimate goodness during their rebellion.

this is off topic, but to respond to Sandy "children and adults on antidepressants arent killing" well im not going to bother because it already been addressed.

There are 2 more recent stories, one Nov. 2009 about a minor, MD in Missouri helping a 20 year old kill a high school student and one Feb. 2009 about Danielle Black who hired another student to kill her father, she was on antidepressants and the person who killed her father is not even competent to stand trial, he was moved to the psych ward. As for all of you who do not believe anti-depressants cause this, buy some of these drugs from the online Canadian Pharmacy, I'm sure you will be able to get a doctor to write you a prescription for cash, there are reports of that, too all over the news. They carry a warning of the side effect of "Homocidal Ideation" As for the FDA, they have recalled dozens of drugs this year for deadly side effects. They have NO IDEA what they are doing. This has been going on for a long time. In 1992 a drug company was able to give them a bogus sample of a generic they were supposed to be making, but the drug company gave them the actual drug and they didn't bother to find out until people started dying from it. These drugs are not complicated, they are 6 to 14 molecules. This is 9th grade chemistry and the FDA can't or won't be bothered to do it. Why do you think that they approved Lexapro for kids after the DOJ filed the lawsuit? Because they don't want thousands of teenagers withdrawing from these drugs and killing themselves or others. (Of course these people had problems to begin with, but drug treatment is the wrong treatment, it is the trigger that pulls the loaded gun.) It's like going to the doctor for kidney failure and the doctor giving you open heart surgery to fix your kidneys. What's ACTUALLY going on is that CSB therapists and other therapists are referring people to primary care physicians to get these drugs. Neither of these people are qualified to refer or dispense them.

Found It!!

"The term "homicidal ideation" first became part of the Effexor XR label in the section titled "Other Adverse Events Observed During the Premarketing Evaluation of Effexor and Effexor XR," in November 2005 upon FDA approval of Effexor XR for the treatment of panic disorder. As part of the application for the panic disorder indication, Wyeth provided the FDA with data that included homicidal ideation in a clinical trial for Effexor XR."

from this website:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/47327.php

ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THESE DRUGS CAUSE HOMICIDE AND SUICIDE NEEDS TO DO A LOT LESS BLABBING & A LOT MORE READING!

It doesn't matter what you think anyhow. These drugs will be off the market within 2 years. There is a new report of a teenager who exhibits serial-killer characteristics more than once a month now. Not to mention the mother who killed and ate her baby. She was on them too, and Melissa Huckaby.
All drug-induced phsychosis.

it may be that teens are more adversely effected by these antidepressants, i won't or can't argue that. i can only speak from my own experience in that if i weren't on them i would be a crying wreck of a person. please quit advocating that they dispense with antidepressants all together. they work for some, and my quality of life would be crap if i weren't on them.

i am sorry for being off topic since this article, and none i could find about this crime, indicates this kid was on antidepressants. perhaps he should have been...

No Sandy, I do not pick up mail unless it drops on the ground. I work in finance. I am not an accountant, I keep up with their jobs.

First off I agree that there are people that need to be medicated. That said, there are some who will not take to the medication and will have total adverse effects. This much is true, and I dont think anyone can argue with it.

PS - Never claimed Theron was Black. You are the moron.

She is however an African person. South African. She was born there.

Yes, I am using a technicality. But its a true one.

It would be good if there were a huge pit hole for all those killers. The taxpayers would be able to save money while the criminals were in the pit hole taking care of themselves. I understand there will be a lot of fighting in the pit hole, but each one of them earned it.

HOW CAN SOMEONE KILL THEIR LITTLE BROTHER?!HOW FKN SICK!!I WANNA KILL HIS ASS MYSELF!!HE NEEDS TO ROT IN PRISON!!SICK ASS MF!!

@Dr. Blake-Tracy: It's clear from the content of your postings that you're an intelligent person and very dedicated to your cause. You undermine your credibility through the overuse of capitalization and by introducing sensationalized conjecture. This is not how science operates. Science doesn't yell and it doesn't tolerate unreferenced claims.

I started to read some of the comments but the racial tension is fr too much for me and a bit ridiculous. Not sure what ethnicity has to do with this sick individual whom killed his own baby brother. Such evil exists in all races. The human race. Get over your self-righteousness. Check your calendar........

Blessings

what a douche bag

#1 he definitely didn't do it like Dexter or he would have escaped
#2 Stop trying to blame TV shows for someone's mental problems.
#3 hope the kid gets what he deserves

Dr. Blake-Tracy,

Wow! I've never read such an informative, engaging post on this site. I work as a journalist, and I'm interested in learning more, and perhaps writing a feature on this subject. I'm not sure how else to get in touch with you, so could you possibly email me your contact info at kcbillionaires@yahoo.com? I would love the chance to ask you more questions to see if we might collaborate on a story. Thanks.

Mellisa, Kelly,
Yes, Mellisa you did say Theron was Black African American, difference between being African American and coming from Africa. MORON. Also I worked in accounting for years, there is no way you you work in the corp. world the way you express yourself on e-mail. You sound like a MORON. The information you present to the public to veiw is not correct, it is silly.
Kelly, I have a 15 year old son and a 24 year old daughter they are both good kids. Punishment works. I don't care what you read. How many kids do you have? Those Little Bastards that kill the way they did will never change.Like I said before let them move next to you and your family.

Sandy said:
Yes, Mellisa you did say Theron was Black African American, difference between being African American and coming from Africa. MORON.

Actually, Sandy, she had said, and I quote (use Find on this page for the exact quote):

"On a last note. Charlize Theron is African American."

Where, you who can judge others being fit or not fit for the corporate world, see the word black?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong and you and Melissa used to be pen pals but this isn't "email", it's comments.

WHO HERE MISSES TRUE CRIME REPORT WHEN STEVE WAS AT THE HELM?? I sure do.

Kelly,
By the way here is some of your own words.

Kindness translates to conveying a feeling of unconditional love to your child. Firmness with teenagers often means deciding what YOU will do instead of what you will try to make THEM do. (At one point, I said to my son,"If you go to jail, I will love you and I will bring you cookies; but I will not bail you out.")
Kelly, why don't you bail out these two killers, bake them cookies, take them home with you and your son,love them unconditionally with firmness.It will never bring back the two innocent children they murdered in cold blood, but A GOOD TALKING TO THEM WILL FIX EVERYTHING.

blah,
Sorry to inform you this is blogging,according to Dr. Andrew White this is a form of E-mail (communacation).Black- without light, very dark. Smart one we are not talking about the shade of a color. The topic was in regards to Black African American People. (Black People),(White People) (Brown People) In this case the subject is Black people- African Americans. As to the corp. world I am no expert and I can see from your E-mail, blogging you have never gone to school. AGAIN Theron IS FROM SOUTH AFRICAN, VERY WHITE, NO AFRICAN BLOOD IN HER. BACK TO THE TOPIC DEATH ROW!

Sandy,

Lol I like that part when you said kelle should bail out these kids and bake them cookies! Oh that was good! I totally agree.

Loving a child doesn't make them good. My biological "father" is a good example of that. He is the baby of 3 boys and my grandparents spoiled him and loved him, and never punished him. Do you know what ended up happening? Everything in his life is someone elses fault. Him beating me and my older sister, our fault even though she was 4 and I was 2. Him cheatin on my mom all the time, her fault. My mom leaving him and divorcing him soon after the beatings, our fault. His second ex-wife leaving him, her fault not his. His gettin busted with a meth lab about 8 years ago, someone elses fault. His going to jail, the other defendants fault. Him going to prison, once again, not his fault. And all thru this my grandparents have loved him, instead of punishing him. They have given him money and payed his bills when he was in jail. Actually he was the first thing that came to mind when Kelle said " I will love you and bring you cookies in jail, but I will not bail you out." That is the EXACT SAME THING my grandmother told my "father" when he went to jail. She took him cookies, among other things, and gave him money.

He went to prison and got out about 5 years ago, althought, it wasn't the last time. About 2 years ago him and his little lot lizard girlfriend were in Texas. They got pulled over and the cops ran his name and noticed he had been in prison. They asked to search his semi and what do you think they found? DRUGS! Go figure!!!! And once again my grandparents continued to show their love by sending him money. My "father" and grandmother even went so far as to ask me and my sister to send him money. I pretty much told them to kiss my ass and not just no, but HELL no. I mean the man is probably almost 50, and he needs his kids to give him money?! Talk about a low life!

And to ad injury to insult, my grandmother asked my mom for 3000 she had loaned her like 15 years ago. My "father" didn't pay child support and my hospital bills from my asthama were killing my mom and step-dad, so my mom asked my grandma for help. Now, it wouldn't have been so bad, but she asked for it after 15 years and while we were shopping for things for my wedding! And why did she want it? For my sperm donor! He was having a rough time and the usual 1000 she was sending him a month plus the 550 she was payin for his truck payment, well it just wasn't enough. Yea cause drug habits aren't cheap!

As you can tell, I have very little to do with spermy. I find people who blame their problems on everything else other than themselves to be useless.

And I find people who say we need to love our childrenn insead of loving AND punishing them to be complete and total morons.

And I will say it again. GET OFF THE ANTIDEPRESSANTS AND THIS "BOY"! They had nothing to do with this case. I have stated before that there is nothing in this story that says he was on anything. I have been on them since I was 12 and cannot live without them. They do not make me suicidal or homicidal.

To Jane Wilder, I have done a lot of research on the medicines I have been on and while yes in SOME people it causes these problems, it doesn't in everyone who takes them. And I surely hope you are wrong about there not being antidepressants in 2 years. I know a lot of people who cannot function without them. I myself need the medication to help with my bipolar. So maybe you should look into the numerous people they have helped and stop your blabbering.

This "child" is just pure evil. There are no other excuses than that.

Sorry it took so long to get my point out!

"Dr."

I wasn't asking you any questions, I was making a comment.

marie heck,

I will absolutely not get off the anti-depressants ever. You do not know that he was not taking them. Stories report that he had been removed from school 3 weeks prior for cutting behavior. Know one knows anymore. Except the usual route for someone in his situation is some type of school/community services intervention at which point they may have said he was depressed or suicidal. These people have no idea what they are doing and usually start drug treatments without having a diagnosis. Cutting behavior is not always related to depression or suicide. It may start out that way. Cutting behavior is an addictive behavior in which endorphins are released by the brain in response to an injury. The same way bulimia becomes an addictive cycle. Again, when you throw up, endorphins are released by the brain. This little known fact (which should be known to mental health professionals, but isn't.) makes these behaviors puzzling and most mental health professionals are not knowledgeable enough to start treatments. (This is from personal experience with a doctor, 3 psychiatrists, and over 20 other mental health "professionals." None of them knew this. I found it on the internet. As for your story, I applaude you for being so strong. Obviously, you know these terrible things are not your fault. But on that end, look at Melissa Huckaby. She was treated with all kinds of drugs, giving them to others, etc. She was in trouble for shoplifting. That is not a course of treatment for shoplifting. Like I said, these people are clueless at best, most of them need more treatment than the people they are treating. She had no money because her deadbeat husband abandoned her and the daughter and had a whole new family and never sent her any money. Then, when they find this guy, they give him back the daughter he abandoned. I can't understand why they have not put him in jail. He also deserves to go to jail for not paying child support for SEVEN years. For seven years he cared nothing about his little girl and they give her back to him. He should never be allowed to see her.

In fact, if he had a history of self-injurious behavior, it's not out of the realm of possibly that transferred his fixation to someone else (father/brother.) If someone would have intervened years ago with the right treatment, this may have been prevented. At his age, it's too late, because he would not be stupid enough to share his true thoughts with anyone, knowing he would be committed.

Sandy,
Are you serious? Being from Africa MAKES her African-American? What difference does it make if she's from South Africa?!?
So if you are to stick to your point then people born in America but are full blood Italian, aren't Italian-American? They're what then? Italian? But they have American citizenship, do they not? Your assumption that the term "African-American" means you must be black is embarrassing.

Oh and Seth, get a life. People with your ideas and morals really shouldn't be allowed in society. No one person is better then another simply because of ethnicity, and if you can't see that then you can't function "normally" in the world. To pass judgment like such as that is something that is archaic and childish. It's people that think like you create tension in this world.

Seth,
I read your post about your hot tub activities and thought I was actually going to throw-up. Are you trying to prevent others from posting their opinions by making them sick? You think you are an authority on categorizing behavior by ethnicity and that you are culturally superior to the rest of us. So what ethnicity does an ignorant, arrogant, blow hard, uneducated, bigoted, male pig like yourself belong to?

I know the mom of these two kids. She's one of the nicest people you will ever meet. It's sad to hear what happened to her and her son. I hope one day she will be able to function again.

Liz
No Liz, Everyone knows if you are born in a country then you are of that region or citizen born. Some East Indian people are born or come from England but they have no english blood in them. GET THE POINT.
"African-American" means you must be black is embarrassing.
As to this statement you have pointed out Mellissa, claimed that Charlize Theron IS AFRICAN AMERICAN ( BLACK.)
SHE IS FROM SOUTH AFRICA WHITE, WE ALL KNOW SHE WAS BORN A CITIZEN OF AFRICA. LETS EXPLAIN TO YOU. IF YOU ARE USA CITIZEN , YOU ARE NOT AMERICAN INDIAN. THESE PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE FROM THE USA. BLACKS, BROWN, WHITE, AND SO ON. THE POINT IS WE ALL HAVE OUT ethnicity.
UNDERSTAND?
BACK TO THE TOPIC, IN WHICH YOU SEEM TO HAVE FOR GOTTEN. COMMITED AN ADULT CRIME, TRIED AS ADULT. MAYBE WITH A LOT OF LUCK DEATH ROW. READ ON LIZ

Here's how it is.

A black person, and indian person, a hispanic person, a person whose grandparents immigrated here from ireland 200 years ago are all born in the same hospital on the same day in detroit to 2 american citizens. They are all Americans. No prefix.

A person who immigrated here from india, africa, or italy, 5 years ago and became an american citizen last week. They are indian-american, african-american, or italian-american.

Just because a person is black or hispanic or white doesn't necessarily mean they are from a certain country.

These terms are misleading and we should stop labeling people and start addressing them by their friggin' names.

Sandy,
I guess in some way it’s my own fault but I didn’t think I really had to say it, but I’m going on the assumption that Charlize Theron has American citizenship, but whether she has African blood in her or not, she IS African. You said it yourself- “Everyone knows if you are born in a country then you are of that region or citizen born…. WE ALL KNOW SHE WAS BORN A CITIZEN OF AFRICA.” And, like I said assuming she has American citizenship, why isn’t she African American?
My boyfriend is Italian, 100% full blooded Italian, he considers himself an Italian-American…and what is so wrong about that? His Grandmother (from Italy) calls herself that as well, are you saying she’s wrong to be proud of both parts of her life?
Might I add I didn’t forget about the topic? I was simply stating my thoughts on something that you had said.

Liz,
No Liz, You did not read everything that was blogged.
You can call it what ever you want to SHE IS NOT BLACK SHE IS FROM SOUTH AFRICAN. why isn’t she African American? BECAUSE SHE IS NOT BLACK. She is however south African. Read on.
Numerous population groups with different languages, cultural backgrounds and origins all coexist in South Africa. The bigger groups are Zulus (21 %), Xhosas (17 %) and the Sotho (15%). Next are smaller minorities, such as the Tswana, Venda, Ndebele, Swasi, Pedi and others. The province of Natal is home to about one million Indians, whose forefathers came to South Africa to work on the sugarcane plantations. And there are three million people of mixed race, the so-called "coloureds," mainly living in the Cape region. They are descendants of the first Dutch settlers and the native population of the Cape (Khoikhoi) or the Malays, who were taken to South Africa as slaves from East India in the 18th century. The "coloureds" have a cultural heritage of their own.

Numerous population groups with different languages, cultural backgrounds and origins all coexist in South Africa. The bigger groups are Zulus (21 %), Xhosas (17 %) and the Sotho (15%). Next are smaller minorities, such as the Tswana, Venda, Ndebele, Swasi, Pedi and others. The province of Natal is home to about one million Indians, whose forefathers came to South Africa to work on the sugarcane plantations. And there are three million people of mixed race, the so-called "coloureds," mainly living in the Cape region. They are descendants of the first Dutch settlers and the native population of the Cape (Khoikhoi) or the Malays, who were taken to South Africa as slaves from East India in the 18th century. The "coloureds" have a cultural heritage of their own.

The portion of the relatively prosperous white part of the South African population amounts to 8 %
Back to the topic Death row for the both of them.
OH YA Jane Wilder, WHO CARES!

Going back to one of the first things I said, Being African-American does not mean you are black. Its a sterotype/generalization...whatever you want to call it that we have placed on that term. Being African is African no matter what region you are from. Same as being from the midwest doesn't make you any different then American's on the east coast.

Wow, it's amazing how many people commenting on this story would rather talk about THEMSELVES or something COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC than address the issue at hand.

Anti-depressants, racism, and Alyssa Bustamante aside, a 10-year old boy was brutally murdered by his older brother, a person he might've looked up to or in his young mind, trusted. His older brother not only admitted to having no remorse, but also contemplated killing his own father (I'm guessing he reconsidered because his father may have been able to fight back--his brother, nine years younger than him, didn't have a chance).

When the value of a child's life takes a back seat to the 'woe is me, i'm so depressed' off-the-hook reasoning, there's a problem. When I read the story, I didn't think "Oh my god, that killer must've been so depressed...poor thing." I thought, "What a fucked-up kid to kill his defenseless little brother and then GLOAT ABOUT IT!"

It sounds like Andrew doesn't have a conscience, and that's the closest thing to EVIL that I can think of. It was cold-blooded, murderous intention that created this situation. But I am wondering how the parents play into all of this. More often than not, nurture and nature play a part in the development of this kind of psychotic behavior.

Regardless, I would send my condolences to the parents and I hope that the justice system recognizes the act and not the assumptions behind the act. Child or not, Andrew is a very dangerous individual.

I never said he was "poor, depressed, blah blah blah, I said he may have been given anti-depressants which ARE KNOWN to be involved in numerous teenage killings. He was taken out of school for self-injurious behavior and my reasoning is absolutely logical, not "off the hook" Yes, many people screwed up here and the end result is a dead little innocent 10 year old. What could be more depressing than that. He is dangerous but at this point, no one knows why.

Sandy said:
"blah,
Sorry to inform you this is blogging,according to Dr. Andrew White this is a form of E-mail (communacation).Black- without light, very dark. Smart one we are not talking about the shade of a color. The topic was in regards to Black African American People. (Black People),(White People) (Brown People) In this case the subject is Black people- African Americans. As to the corp. world I am no expert and I can see from your E-mail, blogging you have never gone to school. AGAIN Theron IS FROM SOUTH AFRICAN, VERY WHITE, NO AFRICAN BLOOD IN HER. BACK TO THE TOPIC DEATH ROW!"

Communacation? Really? I never "gone to school"? Gosh, pot calling the kettle black I see. Your grammar and spelling (and use of punctuation) is horrible.

BTW, who the hell is Dr. Andrew White??? There's no one of importance when googling "Dr. Andrew White". Commenting in a forum is not technically emailing. Emails are private and comments are public. Big difference.

You are very very ignorant. African-American is semantics. People are used to, based on ideologies, thinking that automatically means black and irrelevant to whether they are Carribean but black or with roots in Africa. What Melissa was probably trying to say is she is someone from Africa but living in America. What would you call someone like that? Whether she is WHITE is irrelevant because, I don't know if you ever heard of apartheid, but there are quite a lot of white folks in South Africa. Does that mean they have ~black~ (or as you refer to "African blood" in her) in them? No. But would they identify themselves or the general public refer to them as non-descript "White" or [South-]African? You are just ridiculous. That's like saying you're not American unless you have "American blood" in you, which in this case, would be Native American blood.

Go back to school.

BTW Sandy, good going on copying and pasting without any reference -> http://www.southafrica-travel.net/pages/e_bevoelk.htm

HAY DUMB, DUMB (blah),
Not everything comes off the internet. I get my infomration by research. I sure you do not know what that is. Read, if you had read my blogging and E-mails, such as I am doing right now to you, this now makes it under the lines of an e-mail. Dr. Andrew White, teaches at Standford. Have you heard of Standford? You are so far off base with your statements, you are not even on the same subject as Mellissa and I were on. AGAIN DUMB, DUMB, Charlize Theron IS FROM SOUTH AFRICA, SHE IS NOT AFRICAN AMERICAN. SOUTH AFRICA IS 8% WHITE, NOT BLACK! CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SO FAR?
OKAY THIS IS YOU- What" Melissa was probably trying to say is she is someone from Africa but living in America. What would you call someone like that?"
I AM GLAD THAT YOU CAN READ MELLISSA'S MIND, SHE SAID "SHE WAS AFRICAN AMERICAN." (WITHOUT ALL OF YOUR IS ISes in your sentences,) SHE IS FROM SOUTH AFRICA AND IS WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!.SHE BECAME A USA CITIZEN IN 2007. NO ONCE AGAIN DUMB, DUMB, THAT IS NOT LIKE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN BLOOD IN YOU TO COME FROM USA. I WAS BORN HERE, BUT I AM ITAILAN. BOTH MY PARENTS ARE FROM ITALY. THAT MAKES ME AN AMERICAN CITIZEN WITH EUROPEAN BLOOD. GOT IT. JAPANESE PEOPLE BORN IN USA ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT ARE JAPANIES BLOOD, THEY ARE JAPANESE.
STOP TRYING TO SOUND INTEILLGENT AND BLOG SOMETHING ABOUT THE TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Ya, Dumb, Dumb,
Two things I feel as thow this waste as a human, should be tried as an adult and get death row.
Second where did you say your references came from? Since you know so much about Native American Indian, different cultures and such.

Dexter dumps his bodies in a lake you idiot.

Dumb, Dumb,
Here is some more copy and pasting.
A South African American refers to a people who live in the United States and who originate from South Africa. There are 45,569 people today in the United States who claim South African ancestry.[citation needed] The majority were White South African, most being of European ancestry.
Not African American-That would be black( The dictionary says of black descent from Africa.)White from Africa is From S. Africa, N. Africa,different parts of African,or even White- African American. On an applacation say for employment Charlize Therone will not check African American, she will check WHITE.

ADULT CRIME, ADULT PUNISHMENT.

May I interrupt this discussion of Charlize Therone's heritage for a quick second?

Has anyone heard anything about the parents of these children? What could have happened in his life to kill his little brother?, (and an angry killing at that, beating the head on the floor is a passion driven act to me.

The fictional character Dexter does not make a mess or do it in a hate filled moment. Teenboy can't possibly blame it on identifying with Dexter. Or he'd have gone to Georgia to murder the guy who murdered the hiker. Right?

The Irish Hippie,
I was thinking about that when I was reading the story on him. Dexter kills the "bad" guys, right? I don't exactly watch the show. What it makes me think of is John Lennon's assassin, blaming Catcher in the Rye.
It's really a very tragic event. I can't imagine one of my siblings hating me so much, sure we fight, and those fights have left scars but for one of them to want to kill me? I can't even imagine...as for the parents, my heart goes out to them! I lost a brother to a freak accident and know what my parents go through to this day, and its painful, never mind having him die at the hands of one of their own kids. I hope they can find peace and some kind of answer to it.

Sandy,
You really need to calm down and read...VERY carefully what you are saying and what other people are saying. You are pulling facts out that have little to no relation to the fact of whether or not she's African-American. How much do you really know about Native Americans? Also stop using the term Indian. I'm Native American and finding highly offensive. Do you know WHY it's NATIVE AMERICAN? It's because we are native to this land, do you know why we were first called Indians? BECAUSE Columbus thought he landed in INDIA.
you are the one coming off as ignorant because you are screaming and calling names like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum, rather then acting like the years you're age says you are.

Leopold and Lowe also killed to see what it felt like. Its nothing new and Way before SSRI's kids were murdering kids. I find these posts by self professed professionals and racist kids to be depressing and far from useful i helping us find ways to live with the sorrows of this world. Some tragedies can't be prevented. Mental illness is real and can sometimes be helped with medication. Blame is a waste of time and energy. Better laws, more jails and more vigilent parents, teachers and neighbors might help. Leopold and Lowe were bright too, so good grades are no indication of killing potential. Murder has been around since humans began. Cain and Abel..If the bible is not your cup of tea, read Shakespeare..Kids kill parents, parents kill kids, no drugs involved. Such is life. Blame is only a way to cope.

This is such a sad, sad incident. My condolences go out the parents.

Whoops it was Leopold and Loeb. And here is a great link to historical child killers. Perhaps the researcher on SSRI's needs to read up on history a little. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

What the hell does adult crime adult time mean. I'm sick of that being parroted. Crime is crime the severity of it doesnt dictate whether a teen is an adult or not.

Whoops it was Leopold and Loeb. And here is a great link to historical child killers. Perhaps the researcher on SSRI's needs to read up on history a little. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

JoanneFM,

Ditto to everything you said.

Sandy,

I don't usually like to give into responding to comments that have nothing to do with the story at hand, but I will this time. I know 15 guys from South Africa and they are all white. They all refer to themselve as African, as they are from South Africa. And the ones who now have American citizenship refer to themselves as African Americans. Much the same way I refer to myself as a Coloradoian (or however you spell it) because I was born in Colorado.

Okay Dumb Dumb,
You could not debate the facts I have blogged. I am trying to educate you. I don't care if you are native american Indian, that I dought. However my husband is partAmerican Native Indian and has a card from the Goverment to prove it. This includes his medical and dental.What about you? As for Columbus Dumb, Dumb he was not in search of India here is some fact for you copy and paste. Columbus discovered america on his 3 sail, this is his forth sail,Columbus made a fourth voyage nominally in search of the Strait of Malacca to the Indian Ocean.

As to the crime that all of this started from YES the SERVERITY does just that, it determines if a person under the age of 18 is tried as an juvenile or an adult. Crime is not just Crime, there is self-defense, pre-meditated and on and on. Hope he gets tried as an adult.

Okay,
Here it is,
If a person is from S. africa(white) and comes to USA becomes a Citizen. They can call themselves what ever they want to. The point was back way back when African american is black. The Goverment also classifies the terms as this, if you are white from S. Africa, you are from S African, White-S. African. Please do not put African American on an application of any kind if you are from any part of Africa and White. If you do not believe me check the dictionary look it up. You can call yourself what ever you want as well, why I don't know. I am from California, some Californian's are refered to as Calies.

Dexter needs to be tried as an adult

Sandy you really need to try THINKING and quit behaving like a 4 yr old... Liz didnt say that Columbus was in search of India, she said he thought he landed in India.

I doubt you have a 15 and 24 year old kids, you act no older than a 13 year old. idiot..

Sandy,

I only meant to state that you have pointed out that if you call yourself African-American, you are black, or at least that's what I took from it. Who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell anyone what they call themselves? If my friends want to call themselves African Americans, I'm not gonna argue with them. If there are black irish people, would they be labeled African-Irish-Americans? No they would be Irish-Americans. There can be white African Americans and black Africa Americans.

I don't know, call me ignorant, which I'm sure you will. But to me the little - just goes to show color. African American can mean people of all color who come from Africa. While African-American means black.

And I threw in the Coloradoian just to say I can call myself that, if I wanted too. I was born there, but have lived in kansas most of my 25 years of life.

This will be the last time I comment on this subject. While I myself have fueled the fire, I do find it stupid and completely off the subject. Move on from this and get back on subject!

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. The beauty of it all is we don't have to agree with eachother.

MOVE ON!

Jane Wilder,

Yea you do need to get off the anti-depressants. True, it doesn't state that he wasn't on them, but it also doesn't state that he was. I'm thinking if he had been, it would have been reported, just like it was with alyssa. But in none of the stories I have read has it stated he was. But even if he was, it still doesn't give him an excuse to kill. I have known of many people (teenagers and adults) who have been on anti-depressants and have never killed anyone or themselves. If they were so horrible and caused so many murders then I'm pretty sure its safe to say, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE ANTI-DEPRESSANTS. What about all the people who have killed and have never been on anti-depressants? How does that work out?

Anti-depressants are just like every other medicine out there, whether its over the counter or prescribed. I take lortabs for my migraines, and they work great for me, no bad side effects or anything. My mom takes them for her severe back pain, they make her sick.

I will NEVER agree that people shouldn't take them and they should be banned. There are hundreds of thousands of people that take them, who actually cannot function without them, and do not go around killing people.

As with the whole african-american subject, I won't comment on anti-depressants again. Its not part of the story, so I discuss it. You want to lobby against them, I'm sure there is another website for you to do that. They work for me, I am one of the ones who need them, and I will continue to use them, I really don't care if you agree or not.

Back on subject. This "boy" is evil and should be tried as an adult and locked away in prison, not juvie. Its time we started treating adult criminals like adult criminals. He had the state of mind to kill his little brother, brutaly, and then go visit his girlfriend and give her a ring, all while his dead little brother was in the trunk? Yeah I'd say he is just evil.

Will all you faggot ass queers stop crying about the grammatical errors?

Dumb Dumb, and side kick,
I must say I have never enjoyed myself as much as I have with some of your respones. As uninformed as they are I find them entertaining. This intellegant response is from Liz" WHY it's NATIVE AMERICAN? It's because we are native to this land, do you know why we were first called Indians? BECAUSE Columbus thought he landed in INDIA."
Now Native Amermerican Indians are the true people of the Americas. The rest of our fathers came to america. That is why we are of all color. As for Columbus, Liz said he thought or was looking for India. Incorrect that was on the fourth sail, America had already been discovered. Got it. I do understand what you Marie Heck are tring to say, but it has nothing to do with what Mellissa and I had started with. Nationality and Citizenship.
Joannef, sweetheart I don't know how old you are, but maybe mommy and daddy can help you with this project.
Dexter still needs to be tried as an adult.

Dexter the topic,
He was a good student, but wanted to kill his little bother for several years. He wanted him awake so he could see him face to face to die. If Dexter is found guilty, he will serve 65 years in prison as an adult.

65 years!! whoa that's harsh, but he did take a persons life but dammnnn! Poor kid, 65 year will ruin him and he'll never recver, 65 years will have him remain and turn him into a serial killer for sure. He could have been saved, but 65 years he's ruined! they should just give him life, because 65 years is harsh for a person and when he'll get out he'll be just demented and kill again. He ruined his self. he's ruined!

I work with the mother and let me say they did not see any reason to think something like this could happen. I believe people can be born evil. I just hate that Andrew was so disturbed and didnt talk to someone about his feelings. He is the only one who could have prevented this tragedy. He needed to talk, scream and yell that he needed help!!!

Anyone who actually watches the show "Dexter" would know the main character, while a serial killer, does NOT believe in harming children. In almost every epsisode Dexter professes a loathing for pedophiles and people who hurt children; the character, Dexter goes after people who do.

I was just kidding about the intellegent response about the Native American Indians and Columbus searching for India. None of the above is correct.Columbus was looking for a shorter route to China and the Indian Ocean for trade. Liz your statement is dumb as it is silly. We are not Native Indians,just for the reason our fathers came from different parts of the world, not the America's. Research your opinions before blogging, the correct information will help you in the future.

Andrew sure has some pretty lips. He is going to be REAL popular in prison. I'll bet the guys in the penitentiary he is headed for are already calling dibbs on him. They're not ten year olds either. Time for justice son..

Jane Wilder,

I am impressed with the knowledge you have about these drugs. We could use more help getting information out there to stop this drug-induced nightmare in which we find ourselves. Why don't you e-mail me directly by going to our website http://www.drugawareness.org and using the contact button? I would like to talk to you.

A couple of things you may not know is that antidepressants often cause obsessions to cut or hurt oneself. They are almost identical to PCP which was put out as a miracle anesthetic - a dissociative anesthetic where consciousness is gone, but automated behavior remains. It was a new type of anesthetic. Brain wave patterns of antidepressant users demonstrate the same anesthetic state while appearing functioning. As they come off the meds I hear over and over and over again from patients that they feel as though they are coming out from under anesthesia. That explains why they have always told me that they cut themselves to see if they can still feel anything. So the cutting is generally another clue for me that they are taking an antidepressant.

No remorse is common or inability to feel guilt, or to feel anything else for that matter.

And remember Kip Kinkel in one of the first school shootings? The one who had been on Prozac and killed his parents, then went to school shooting? I will never forget his cries in that police interview, "I HAD NO CHOICE!" He said it over and over again. I have heard that so many times in the past two decades from patients who have done extremely out-of-character things on these drugs. That was exactly what Andrew was trying to say. He did not identify himself with Dexter. He was trying to describe what he felt and said it was like Dexter. That is two different things completely. Anyway as I said there are still too many clues.

Ann Blake-Tracy, PhD, Executive Director,
International Coalition for Drug Awareness
www.drugawareness.org & www.ssristories.com

jadensmokes what you complain of happening when you come off your antidepressant is plain and simple drug withdrawal. These antidepressants are so highly protein bound that it takes a while for the worst part of the withdrawal to kick in - generally a few weeks depending on the particular antidepressant.

If you go slow enough those withdrawal effects disappear and you find you feel better and can function better than you have in years. And you will wonder why you did not see the serious adverse effects you were having on the drugs that you can now see so clearly off the drugs.

Yes please go to her site so you can actually discuss something that is the subject. They aren't here, so go away.

kids brains dont fully develope until well into their 20's and theyre holding teens responsible as adults? are they trying to get rid of juvie? they never use it any more, kids are just sent straight to adult prison.

course thats not the case in other countries who never give minors strict or life without parole sentences. the kids are rehabilitated and rarely reoffend. even murderers are given second chances.

sad that we're so quick to give up on these kids, makes you wonder why they're killing each other.

Marie heck,
So you're getting me from both stories. Now I put it together. So your 25 years old, taking anti-depressants and sticking up for spanking and saying you're glad you were spanked as a child. Well, something must be bothering you! Isn't there more to life? Let me guess, you get these antidepressants from the primary care physician? I would demand much better health treatment for my problems. These doctors don't give a rats ass about you. Get a clue.

Sandy,

You know I was always taught to respect my elders. I was taught that by the mother who also believed in punishment, which yes did include spanking. But I don't respect you at all. You are a moron and you come off as one of those people who KNOWS everything you say is right and everyone should do what you do. I have a cousin like you. I can't stand her either.

And so what if I stick up for spanking? Was I glad I got spanked? Yea I loved it. I didn't like gettin spanked and it hurt, but I learned. If I did something bad, I got in trouble. BUT, as I have stated before, I can count on one hand how many times I got spanked. But when I got the "look" I knew to either stop it or I was gonna get one. I was more afraid of the "look" than the actaul spankings. I'm still afraid of the "look."

And you make it sound so horrible that I take anti depressants. And if you had actually read anything I have written before, I said I wasn't on them right now, although I would love to be. And if its any of your business, no my primary care doctor does not prescribe them to me, they never have. I went through weeks of therapy, tests, and research before I was given any meds.

Oh, and if there is anything "bothering" me, its morons like you. Ones who think their way of life is the only right way, and ones who don't stick to the actual story at hand. So next time you feel like attacking me, think again. I'm not part of this story so get over it.

Actually, this will probably be the last time I direct any comment to you personally. Yes, this is a free country and you have the right to say what you want, but keep it to the actual story, not other commentors.

Whoops! My bad. That's meant for Jane Wilder, not Sandy. I had read one of Sandy's comments and somehow thought she was the ignorant person attacking me!

Sorry Sandy! Your actually kinda cool.

I'm not the one who deviated from the original story. I simply said that many cases like this are related to antidepressants. Many teens and younger are given them and they really are not supposed to be. If you choose to not believe the reported news stories of the numerous people going berzerk on them, then that's your choice.

Jane Wilder,

If you have read what I said in a previous comment, I said yes I realize that anti depressants have adverse affect in SOME people, but for the most part they work wonders for the rest of us.

And yes, when you made the above comment about me, you made a huge wide turn away from the actual story.

GOOD BYE JANE WILDER.

Actually, there is no real data showing the effectiveness of antidepressants because the drug companies get to choose which studies to submit to the FDA and there is no accountability to the public on the part of the FDA to make us aware of all the reports of adverse effects. So it is still a complete unknown at this time. There is no proof that they work wonders for most and have serious side effects for others or they work wonders for some and have serious side effects for most because we don't get to have all the information. We will never know the actual truth because drugs like Lexapro have sales of 800 million dollars per year and it is doubtful that the FDA would ever recall a drug like that regardless of the number of adverse reports.

If you go to sites like drugs.com there are reviews on all types of medicines, including anti depressents. There are some that work for some people but not for others. I take anti depressents and they do work wonders for me. Ask my family. Ask anyone who has been on any anti depressents when they find one that works, they can change their whole life. Its just like with most medicines, they are trial and error.

Even tho there are studies about these medications, I trust word of mouth more. Hearing real testomonies, I guess you could say, from real people about medicines means more to me than some scientist or someone like you who seems to be totally against them.

And on all the ones I have tried they always say that if you or family or friends notice a change, report it to your doctor asap (maybe not word for word but you get the point). But then again it says that on most any medication I have been prescribed, even antibiotics.

marie heck, we had better stick together it looks like if we take the wrong turn to fast for just one second, some of these pitballs will attack. Most of the time it does not even have anything to do with the topic. You are the same age as my daughter and you seem to be pretty cool to. I love these stories, when I find one I like or has a child involved I respond. I do get carried away, I go with facts and reseach and from my heart. A lot of these people get down an dirty, as if it were them or their family. The Topic=Was this little nut on Antidepressants? Weather he was or not, in my opinion there is no excuss to take another humans life, let alone his little bother. Since his name has been identifed in the news, he will be tried as an adult.
Everyone that blogs on this site should be aware of some racist people. I am sure most of you all ready know who they are. What they are doing is using blogging names like justin igger, seth, bluh just look for the ones that start using dirty names like cunt, fu.. and so on they stir thangs up.

Sandy,

I know huh?!?! From other comments your "racist" and I'm a horrible mom! Well actually I'm just a horrible person because I defend my way of punishment for my daughter AND I take anti depressants! Holy crap! The way people act you would think we are worse than some of the people in these stories!

And a lot of people get heated with their comments. If they didn't, I would kinda worry about them. Even if I don't always agree with someone I can appreciate that they believe in and are passionate for something. So no worries here if you get "carried away!"

ok sandy talks about respecting her elders, but yells and uses words like moron and stupid to people on a blog that she has never met and will never meet??? ummm yeah, good job Sandy's mom, really...

You guys make me laugh and I find it just another example of why and how teens in America have gotten out of control and picked up learned behavior from parents who are also out of control, disrespectful, rude, argumentative and almost down right abusive to one another. You all wonder why kids do these horrible things? really? I just sit back and shake my head.

It's not just this website, but many many others. People cursing, yelling, screaming, racisim, sexism, bigotry etc all from the mouth of so called "good" parents. Or people who have the nerve to call themselves Christian and sit there on Sunday and praise Jesus. Praise him how? I thought Christian was suppose to mean Christ-like?? Hypocrites all of you! Or do you like to hide behind the internet like cowards?

There is no love in our nation anymore. No unity, just a bunch of self serving pretenders who care only about being right or who can shout the loudest.

What,
You are right about one thing there has been name calling as to many of the other bloggers. The buck STOPS with race!!!! Please pull and find one thing that I have blogged and Marie Heck has blogged against other races. Some of us would be interested in knowing who you are, instead of hidding behind What. Is this another Seth, or Justin? As to the topic do you not have anything else in your life except to find a reason to complain about BLOGGERS COMMITS instead of a 17 year old, that killed his little bother? Good parent, Bad parent. This person is a killer, he wanted to kill for years. This is just what I believe, that is what this site is for, everyone to express themselfs. With luck he will go to prison for the rest of his life
Thank You,
What for being so concerned with how I think

What??,

Actually that was me and not Sandy, so if your going to "go off" on someone, make sure you get it right. And I clearly stated I have no respect for Jane Wilder. While I can appreciate she is passionant in what she believs in, I don't respect her. And I don't have too! That's the great thing about having a mind of your own. I never called anyone stupid. And I'm pretty sure I didn't yell either. Actually when I was TYPING, I was very quietly mouthing my words. And I'm not a teenager, I'm 25. Also, I never learned any of the things you say from my parents because my parents weren't like that. Yea sure my biological father was abusive, racist, out of control, bigot, and whatever else you can think of, but I have had nothing to do with him. If anything, my mom and dad (step-dad if you wanna get technical) have taught me the complete opposite of all that and I am a better person because of them.

Sandy,

Once again you hit the nail on the head! Your a pretty cool older lady(no dissrespect!)!

Just for those of you who don't believe how stupid these "authorities" and "professionals" are I just read about this Dr. Lisa Boesky clinical psychologist and "authority" on teens and cutting. Nowhere in her information on the Andrew Conley stories does she reveal the truth that cutting behavior is PHYSICALLY addictive just like alcoholism, bulimia and drug addiction. These people would lead us to believe that there is some psychological reasoning carried out each time some one cuts. That is a FRESH STEAMING PILE OF HORSE SHIT. These behaviors are very simply, once started, become addictive for the brain's pleasure centers.

Isn't it interesting how many more people are Bi-polar these days, probably on the new block-buster "Abilify", now that the public is getting wise to all the anti-depressant problems?

I knew both Andrew AND Connar, I go to the school and everything. Andrew never seemed like a bad kid but i guess i was wrong. I just want to beat the crap out of the sick basterd for doing that to his 10 year old brother. Conner never did anything to deserve that. He was a good kid!

Another story where the comments are hardly about the victim or the person who did it, or even what happened - and they wonder why comments get deleted.

Anyway,

I know you told us to not try to make sense of the dexter reasoning, but I can't help but wonder how that character has anything to do with what Andrew did. He said Dexter kills bad people. How was his 10 year old brother a bad person? None the less worse than his Dad that he changed his mind about killing. So just because his "thirst for murder" started at a young age, he sees himself as Dexter? Well, I hardly have watched that show, but I don't believe he killed any good, harmless children. There goes that reasoning!

And Im also curious to why their parents were asleep anyway the next morning? (giving Andrew the opportunity to stand over his father with a knife). Didnt they notice their child didnt come home the night before? They must have known Andrew was picking Connar up. When he came home didnt they wonder why Connar wasnt with him?

The fact that he would kill his 10 year old brother yet back out when it came to killing a grown man shows what little courage this boy has. He'd kill a child but thinks twice when it comes to someone who can defend himself. He finds himself this crazed murderer when in all actuality he's a cowardice little pu$$y.

I didnt see anywhere where this said the boy was on some type of medicine that causes homicidal tendencies, aparently everyone wants to say he isnt to blame because of something like that. Well, I do just want to remind everyone that it does say "If you start experiencing symptoms like .... please contact your doctor." Thats to avoid things like that.

There is something sick and twisted about someone, regardless what medicine they are one, to murder a child. This one wasnt just a stranger, or even his little brother/sisters friend, this was his brother - HIS OWN FLESH AND BLOOD. In the city of Kansas City, Missouri at 17 you are a legal adult. I hope in Indiana they have that law, because he doesnt need special treatment for being barely under the age of whats a legal adult. He murdered his little brother in cold blood.

Gina, you are on ever posting, you get nasty digs in at everyone than go to the topic. Go away your Nasty

Conner was in my class. he was a really nice person. her defenitly didnt deserve this.

I agree with Gina,Im sorry but she does make a logical assumption. I do watch Dexter, and he does kill bad people, but he never touches a child. He lives by a code. The person has to be really a bad person,he just doesnt see someone and say, oh i think i'll kill him/her today. I certainally do not let my 8 and 9 year old watch the show,even if I did, I highly doubt they would want to kill a 10 year old. This boy has trouble and it isnt from watching Dexter!! People DO NOT care about the children they have, maybe Mom and Dad should have a look at.

Wow, really wished I would have read all this blog before I made commit. Several people made alot of sense. Im sorry but who really gives a flying #$^& about what an actress nationallity is. This is america, which is a melting pot. As for the history of it all, all of you need to do some serious research into the great USA. I seriously think you'll be amazed, if you care, and I am thinking most of you dont,I think most of you are for yourselves,as evident in the original post that had to do with a young boy killing his younger brother, blame the show Dexter all you want, it is not TV, it's how they are raised.

Ok I have read enough. I know these people personally. They are like family to me. These boys were not from a bad family. They were not abused or anything like that. They were loved and given every opportunity in life. Andrew is 17 years old. He can pretty much make up his mind about what he wants to watch. I watched these boys grow. They were both such wonderful kids. None of us will ever really know what went wrong. Some people are just unstable. And Andrew is one of them. He had no real reason for killing his brother. I wish everyone would stop blaming the parents. You guys just don't know what it's like to go through something like this. I got it first-hand. And it has been pure hell.