Alfredo and Leticia Ines Locked Their 12-Year-Old Daughter in a Closet for a Year

• omg she was my vecina and now wonder she was really mean

• Boy, 14, Released After Killing Father: On Prozac http://www.click2houston.com/news/18651344/detail.html

• Oh jadensmokes, you needn't worry. One of Rocki's first insults towards me, if you can call it that, was to point out that I must know a lot about AARP and denture cream. Might've stung a little if I wasn't 23. Then she continued repeating that I'll never understand what she's saying about antidepressants because I'm "simply too young," which makes about zero sense. It was just a jab back at her. I'm fairly certain she's never known what she was talking about, regardless of her age.

• @Jenn I never read the book myself just listened to mom reiderate what she read and so I cant make a judgement either way. But yah in the book itself he claims they I guess the 'goverment' didnt want him sharing what he knows and he very well may be a fraud. But its not a far stretch to assume some of what he said is accurate. They do make money pushing legal drugs whatever the ailment use or abuse, and so I can imagine drugs getting out there worse than the ailment and higher ups turning a blind eye to it cause its profitable. But yah I don't take what his book said for gospel only a thread of information amongst so many others. Thanks Jenn

• Eastern Shore Girlie: I just wanted to give you a little information on something. If your mother has been reading the books by Kevin Trudeau, you might want to do some research for her on the history of this guy. He was actually banned from having anything else to do with the medical field because of his false claims and his scams. Now, there may be controversy behind all of that where some people say that he is truth seeking and the Government just wanted to shut him up, but from what I can tell, some of his "remedies" or alternative medicinal methods have caused equal harm to the side effects of prescriptive drugs. Kevin Trudeau is now only selling items dealing with debt and credit card scams. You may just want to look into it. My mom had one of his "medical" books and it was just insane some of the stuff that was in it.

• WOW, so I know I have no degrees, a meek community college education, and chatspeak and text typing make my grammar look horrible (probably spelled grammar wrong) lol but I HAVE TO ADD A LITTLE 2 CENTS PLEEAAASSSE! I am 30 years old myself live in a very rural "hick" type area and don't want to come across a bumbling idjit but I wanted to add to mcr,marie and rocki's debate. First of all 4 years back my mom, now 59, was diagnosed with rheumatoid athritis, far worse than ur run of the mill athritic pain a chronic disfiguiring immune disease where your body turns on its self and primarily the joints. She has no insurance and right away was put on Predisone (probably also spelled wrong) A steriod and an array of pain med's one being generic vikadin. The steriod Predisone, swelled her and the vikadin did nothing for her pain. Through a program advertised by Montel Williams she got the pharmasutical company for a injection shot called Humira, and the shots were free to her that would normally cost 500 or so a pack supply (if not more). It seemed to work at first and she was still on the steriod. One day she woke up with lil blood spots on her feets hands and body. It was called pitutury or something where the shot caused her to bleed under the skin, She later tries Embral which blinded her in an eye (eye spasm) for over a week. This caused her to start researching how side effects can sometimes be worse than the symptoms. She stumbled across a book by this guy Kevin Tribideaux or some name like that breaking down how the goverment and Pharmasuetical company's worked hand in hand sometimes at the stake of peoples live, and lets face it, money is medicine and medicine is money. So like all things in life I am sure there are crooked policies, good old boy tactics and MUCH MUCH profit. That being said rocki's excuse that every story on this site is somehow related to anti depressants is tiring. People have been doing mentally insane things since the beggining of time b4 anti-depressants were even in the equasion. I am with marie heck in that there should be no shame in needing the aid of a medication in any instance. I DO believe that if u are prescribed something u should research it or learn what u can about the side effects and the risk that runs with taking anything into ur body. and mcr I am with and enjoy reading but come on, u say rocki should'nt bring ur mother into the equasion her childish lash out was childish, but so was urs about her father so u can argue about smarts all day but u did the same thing she did!

• Pffft, Gabriel, no one here hates Rocki! That's ludicrous. We are having a debate! Not slamming Rocki. Rocki if you took it that way, I apologize from my heart. I wanted to let you know that there are several people here that have grown tired of the antidepressant subject being brought up in every explained and unexplained crime. That's all... That and my own justification for the need for antidepressants. I have tried several times to get off of them and end up in the same dark hole I started out in...I'm not going back there, if it means I take a zoloft everyday for the rest of my life! Besides, I only take half of the smallest dose, but it does what I need it to do. It allows me to function. By the way, mcr, cc, marie...I'm 50, so way over the hill, but I think young!

• Mcr, You are absolutely correct. A person could try 80 different types of SSRI's before finding what works. And sometimes it takes more than one. I don't know what you are on, but who is to say it won't work for me? I might have already tried it and it didn't. I don't know. Its hell and torture, but sometimes it can take years to find out what works the best. But the same is true for almost every medication and disease! Two of my aunts, at least 3 of my uncles, and my mom all suffer from the same back problem (the doctors say its hereditary so I'm sure I will get it!) and with the exception of one aunt and one uncle who have had major back surgery, all have different treatments. My mom, whose isn't as far along as the others, takes pain meds when she really needs it and has found different things to help. My dad rubs and pops her back, which takes the pain away. She has this little thing she sits on that relieves pain when she is sitting and is trying to put surgery off as long as she can. My other aunt has this little thing she wears all the time to shock her back and it takes the pain away and also wears pain patches. My other uncles have figured out ways to take away the pain. My aunt who had surgery on her back had breast cancer. My other aunt with back problems had colon cancer. True they are different forms of cancer, but they didn't have the same treatment. My aunt with breast cancer had chemo and I think radiation. My aunt with colon cancer had surgery and I think chemo. They both had chemo, but not the exact same treatments. My point is, what works for one, might not work for the other. My mom and her siblings talk about their treatments and will try eachothers. Some work and some don't. What works for one person with a mental illness might not work for another. And not every diease is the same. Sure me and mcr have bipolar, but we are two different people. We have the same diease, but that doesn't mean we have the same symptoms and triggers. Jadensmokes is depressed to the point she can't get out of bed some days, I am the same. Maybe mcr is the same way and maybe she isn't. Everyone suffers different so why would the same meds work for all of us. Therapy works for some, but not for others. Should we ban that?!?! I find it helps a little, but not as much as it does for others. And I know people that it doesn't work for at all. Same disease doesn't equal same treatment. Find what works for you and go with it, no matter what anyone says.

• Mcr, You do know what your talking about. You just proved it to me. My best friend since the 3 grade was a strange girl. Just the same I love her. When we both were accepted into UCD the first 6 months went great. But then She started staying up all day and night long. Never sat down, never stopped studying. Her grades were A's. One day out of the blue she crashed. I had to call her parents. My friend was put on over 22 different kinds of meds before they found 3 that worked for her. She is back in school; Just finished a class project with me and 7 other students. We used TCR as an experiment for our paper. Katie did great, we all did. Mcr you are Right it can take a long time and many Meds before a person finds the right ones.

• And to clarify, I meant the medication that's right for you at first. Often you have to try a couple before you find the one that works for you. All SSRI's have primarily the same function, but can work for various symptoms in their own ways. Some SSRI's ARE good for bipolar disorder, however, sometimes they're taken in conjunction with one or two other medications.

• C.C. -- Good point! A mother and father were just found guilty in Oregon City, just outside of Portland, for criminally negligent homicide for relying on faith and prayer to heal their 16-year-old son who was seriously ill. And I'm finding several holes in Rocki's story after thinking about it. Rocki -- if you have a degree from Penn State in Psychology, then why didn't it ever occur to you that you may not find the medication that's right for you? Are you telling me you went to six or seven different psychiatrists who all gave you the same or different drugs? That sounds pretty excessive and stupid, especially for someone who knows so much about psychology and medicine. Are you aware that the difference between psychologists and psychiatrists is that psychiatrists go to medical school for the very purpose of knowing the physiological effects of the brain and how to manipulate them by prescribing various medications? When you were on these medications, did you ever feel as though you were a threat to yourself or your loved ones? Did you try to drown one of your kids in the tub or something? Anything? I didn't think so. Everything you say is b.s.

• Jenn, I see what you are talking about, your point is understood. All of our opinions are just that, our opinions. Some religions don't believe in Doctor's does that make them right or wrong? If I am prescribed antidepressants or any other kind of medication and a Medical Professional tells me to take it for my own well being I'm taking it. That's me

• Jadensmokes, Thank you! That has been exactly what I have been trying to say! We all get Rocki's veiwpoints on antidepressants, but why does almost every story have to be blamed on them? My father uses his diease as an excuse for everything he has ever done in his life. I, myself did at the begining. But I smartened up. This is something I will live with til I die (unless by some miracle they figure out a way to get rid of it comepletely!) and I realized I couldn't blame my diease for everything. The people that do blame antidepressants or their mental diease just tick me off! There is a difference between callin in sick to work because your having a off day and offing someone because your having a bad day! Jenn, Thank you for saying that, about the degree's not equaling smart. It actually feels pretty good hearing that from someone with degree's. My little brother is the "smart" one (or so he says) and he is a complete idiot most the time! All book smart and hardly any common sense! Love him to death, but wow! Sometimes I'm amazed he went to college!

• Oh Jesus...she listens to country music, too. Anyone who can listen to that southern accent for more than 30 seconds without their head exploding must be a spawn of Satan. You're right I have no idea. If someone made me listen to that song, I'd escape at all costs. Is that song supposed to test whether or not you're sane enough to not bash someone's skull in while listening to it? Because I definitely almost failed within the first 10 seconds. And I'm sorry, but you're never going to understand what I'm talking about because you're simply too far over the hill. Why don't you run on down to the soda fountain and get yourself a phosphate? I know how much you love those.

• Jenn, Pray to St.Michael the Archangel, he protects everybody from complete destruction.

• Jenn, When you can hear these words and not feel, you R cured, drugs or no. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrHOjcvQhmQ mcr has no idea.

• Jenn, St. Peter is the Angel who guard the pearly gates. How do we judge ourselves when we are there? How do we judge those who are not like us?

• You're right C.C. I think that people use the meds sometimes as a crutch or an excuse for their loved ones who commit crimes. I also believe there is a big trend out there where people try to say that these drugs are causing teens to be acting out the thoughts that the drugs may bring. It just really hit close to home when mcr said that about rocki's dad. When people deal with the death of a family member by suicide or any other type of death, these people struggle every day with the "what could I have done to prevent it" thing. Therefore, when someone acts like the person may have been remotely at fault for the death, it can cause a relapse in any mental issues the person may have had from that death. That was my only issue with mcr.

• I do not understand why you people hate rocki as you do. I think both schools of thought are equal.

• jadensmokes, Marie Heck, MCR, I am with you guys, these medications have helped more people than the small % of people that had suicidal thoughts from taking antidepressants. Just because someone commits a crime one can not blame everything on antidepressant drugs or the drug manufacture companies.

• Marie Heck, MCR and I are all in the same boat. I have not been diagnosed with bipolarism, but I do have severe depression which runs in my family. It is so severe that my brother had psychosis from his depression. We aren't talking Zolft as treatment, we're talking HALDOL. If it weren't for my taking zoloft, I doubt seriously I would bother to get out of the bed in the morning. I too have grown tired of every story carrying the antidepressant barrage of comments. Not everyone that is a bad person is on antidepressants. I do understand that, especially people younger than adulthood, should be closely monitored and be seen frequently by a doctor to monitor mood changes as well as physiological changes. However, we are all adults here, and there are three of us that have told you on more than one occassion that we would be lost without our meds. None of the three of us have exhibited bad behavior on this site, even though I know that at least one of us has had some serious life issues in the last couple of months. I am all for someone making a firm statement about their beliefs on topics up for discussion. But, this isn't the anti-antidepressants forum, it's a crime forum. Please refrain for blaming the bad acts of others on something that you are unsure of. Has anyone seen the medical files on these two parents? No...I didn't think so.

• And it's truly ridiculous to say that since I don't agree with your moronic opinions, that I must not be in law school. What did I disagree with you on? Do we remember? You're basically saying that antidepressants cause more harm than good; I say not. That's as far as we delved into it. You're putting words in my mouth and I really don't appreciate it.

• Oh, that's fine, Rocki, no apologies necessary. I live my life just like everyone else. We all have something we have to learn to deal with and there are plenty of people out there that deal with a lot worse things than I. Marie, I just want you to know that I agree with you. Education does not equal intelligence. I have several degrees and certifications and I work with people who are educated to the max and some of them are just plain idiots when it comes to every day things.

• Oh and WHEN have you even had to correct my semantics? NEVER HAPPENED!!!

• Agree with you on what Rocki? I have no reason to lie about anything that goes on in my life. And I can be wrong, but we've been over this...you don't make sense, and therefore, I don't even know what you're talking about most of the time. I'm actually specializing in Criminal Law. FUCKING DUH! And I've never changed my name to pretend to be someone else, loser. Only you would do something like that. Clearly you are paying attention to me. Don't you have a supposed kid you should be worrying about?

• Jenn, I'm so sorry about your first husband. But I'm no longer paying attention to mcr b/c I can tell most of what she says about her personal life is fictitious. If she were truly a law student, she would agree with me regarding the pharmaceuticals, unless she wants to be a corporate lawyer. See, she knows that answer when she said "it's like you grading your own papers." There is obviously some other reason that she has it in for me which has nothing to do with the content of my posts. She is the original person who insulted me at first and I believe she is actually another poster that changed her name when I corrected her semantics. She cannot be wrong.

• Jenn -- Shut up and let Rocki defend herself. She's the 40-year-old who insults people's mothers and resorts to petty name calling anytime her point is argued down. You don't need to put anything on a "level that I can understand." I'm in law school, for Christ's sake! I know all about how the government works. Your condescending attitude is only making you look like an idiot, not me.

• Rocki, You said its not your job to know what you need. Then whose job is it? Why isn't it yours? Just because the doctor gives it to you, doesn't mean you have to take it. It says to finish all anti-biotics, but I know of several people who don't. It is your job to tell the doctor(s) everything that you are feeling. It is your job, well actually your right and responsibility, to stand up for yourself if you don't believe what they are saying is right. People do it every day with different types of medications. Do you think anytime one of my doctors has said "here take this one" that I do it? No, I ask for all possibilities and research the medication as much as I can before making a decision. As far as me and mcr not understanding what you are saying, its obvious that we do. Now, I may not be as educated as either one of you, but that doesn't make me stupid. I have no college degree, but I have common sense. I completely understand the coaliton between the government and drug companies. Well, I wouldn't say completely, but I get it. I also know about persoinal experience. My great-grandmother was bipolar and started taking anti-depressants somewhere in the 60's or 70's. She lived to be 96 and never killed anyone or attempted to take her own life while on them. I have several aunts, uncles, and cousins who suffer from various forms of depression. Some of them have needed medication, while others haven't. My biological father is bipolar and my mom has periods of depression. My father has been on several different medicines, while my mom has required almost none. And the only reason my father has been on several different ones is he will not give any the chance to work. And, like most of us bipolar people, he will start one, think he is fine, and stop taking them. I get what your saying, but it doesn't seem like your getting what I'm saying. You, along with a bunch of other people, want to blame the majority of what happens in peoples lifes on medication. Alyssa killed because she was on something. So and so killed because they were on something. They killed themselves because they were on something. And most the time, I don't believe it. Yes, there are some instances where they are a PART of the equation, not the only reason. Millions of people take these meds and live fairly normal lives. But you don't really ever hear about them. My father has used his disease as his excuse for everything. His and my moms marriage failed because of it. His second marriage failed because of it. He beat me and my older sister because of it. He got on drugs because of it. He went to prison because of it. He is a failure because of it. No, all those things are not the dieases fault. True, it plays a big role in it, buts its not the dieases fault. The fault lies in the person. Had he learned to cope and deal with it, as I have tried to do, he might have not turned out so bad. Sometimes you need to put the blame where the blames lies, on the individual. Had I become a durg addict, I wouldn't have blamed it on my father or dad, who were both drug addicts. It would have been my fault. Had I become an alcoholic because my dad was, it would have been my fault. Had I had mu first child at the age of 15, as my mom did, it would have been my fault. That is what I am trying to tell you. Sometimes people are just messed up, either on any medications or not. People have been killing, raping, stealing, abusing long before medication, so why is it just now the medications fault? But your right. I think this discussion is a mute point. You will never comletely understand where is stand and I may not completely understand where you stand. That's a great thing. But you bringing antidepressants into almost everything is getting old and a tad annoying. Yes, your entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to keep reminding everyone of it. And just because your entilted, doesn't mean that you should give it. I saw a lady at wal-mart saturday who looked like a hooker, but I didn't just walk up to her and tell her so!

• Well lobbyists have a lot to do with our every day life. The conflict of interest comes into play when the people that get the earmarks from the pharmaceutical companies are the same people that give the meds the ok to be on the market. Let me put this on a level you will understand. The government approving meds after they receive public funds is equivalent to you grading your own tests. It is ethically considered a conflict of interest. So I do understand her point on that. I also do agree that she is screaming this information at the wrong people and it gets old. I never would have said a word to you had you been able to be adult about the conversation and not joked about suicide. I pray that my daughter never has to deal with someone saying that to her as a 2 year old would not be the reason for someone taking their life and she may have a hard time not believing that.

• And did I say "Your dad DEFINITELY killed himself because you're so stupid"? No, I did not. I said it to be mean, because you're calling someone stupid who is clearly smarter than you ever were or could ever hope to be. I don't believe any of your credentials, and if they're true, well then that doesn't make anyone think any higher of Penn State. Not really sure why someone with a background in Biology and Psychology would become an insurance underwriter...unless maybe you didn't graduate. I'm well aware of lobbyists and the harm they do to our society by legally bribing House members. Tell me what that has to do with ANYTHING on this site? You think people rape, murder and torture other people/animals because of the lobbyists in D.C.? No. So shut the hell up already.

• Yeah, I know it was a low blow. And this twat deserved it.

• Then, hey, at least you got a note, I got nothing!

• Jenn, Thanks but I just got his note out and re-read it to make sure. (It was really long and took a long time to read b/c it was full of capital letters and mis-spellings) It said that the real reason he killed himself was not because a psychiatrist gave him 12 different psych meds, even though none of them ever seemed to work, but it was because a person named mcr would eventually have factual proof that his daughter was just too stupid for him to live anymore. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!

• mcr, that wasn't very nice. I understand your point as far as the anti-depressants. I have argued before that these companies perform risk analysis before they ever go on the market and become available for the general population. I understand that they weigh the risk of the positives against the negatives and would take these meds off the market if the negative results were even close to the positive results. However, I also understand Rocki's concern about the conflict of interest between the Government and the pharmaceutical companies. The lobbyists that are out there that promote things through politics can sometimes cause adverse affects to the population all for profit gain. I also would like to add that my first husband took his life and I would absolutely cry if someone came along an told my daughter that her father killed himself because she was "stupid." You and I both know that Rocki can't be to blame for the decision her father made. You also need to take into consideration that sometimes the words that you type can hurt someone. I understand that you got worked up, but there really isn't a need for such a low blow and yes, Rocki is a big girl and can probably handle it, but there is always a line that doesn't need to be crossed.

• It's really sad that you're 40 years old and such a useless member of society. And I got my degree from Portland State University after I transferred from University of Florida and now I'm at Lewis and Clark for my JD. Bet ya still don't know what a JD is without looking it up, dipshit. Maybe if you weren't so stupid, your dad wouldn't have killed himself.

• mcr, I'm not going around this anymore, you are simply too young to understand all the variables. I certainly hope you do not have a degree from Penn State. If they give degrees to idiots like you, mine will be worthless. Did you effectively get that message?

• Rocki -- You're only giving what you think is the wrong impression on your opinion because you don't know how to effectively communicate. That seems to be an ongoing issue with you. You're setting yourself up for attack. And I have family members who are older than 40 and have been on antidepressants since they were teenagers, and they suffer from bipolar disorder. So maybe you shouldn't go around voicing your misguided analysis on everyone else's experience. Maybe you should just shut your mouth and realize that this isn't about age or wisdom or experience. It's about the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And I seriously DOUBT you got any sort of degree from Penn State. I really do.

• Adding to the directly above, I already know what is going to happen with anti-depressants and the pharmaceutical /healthcare industry. It's quite obvious so I will not waste my time arguing anymore with you, I can see I am giving you the complete incorrect impression of what I really know and think.

• marie, As far as blaming me for taking them, that's very interesting. So I assume that when the doctor diagnosed me with something and said "take this." I should have told him "no thanks, that's not what I need, I need this." It is not my job to know what I need, I only know how things worked out. And I was completely honest with all who I saw and they just shook their heads and gave me drugs. The problems I had/have are not complicated. Once I was on Lexapro, I was no longer rational, and I was addicted so I could not blame the drug. So yes, it very much is the doctor(s) fault. Anyhow, between you and mcr, I can see that I am just going around in circles. You are all too young to understand anything that I am saying because you are too young to fully understand the term "conflict of interest." The situation with healthcare, pharmaceuticals and the government is a complex messy house of cards. If you move one card, you move many, if you move the wrong ones, the whole house falls down. So I will not say anything more on anti-depressants. You will have to watch and see what happens for yourselves.

• C.C., That's for that info. I will look into it. As I said, I don't have insurance right now but hopefully I will have it soon and I can get some sort of medical help. I haven't heard of that, but will definetly look into it! Heck, at this point I would even slightly consider a labotomy!

• Marie, There is a fairly new medication for Bi-polar Geodon. It is suppose to be great. It is a Mode stabalizer.

• Rocki, So, you have irrational thinking patterns? You weren't actually depressed or bipolar? If you are not bipolar, you will never understand what its like. I can't even begin to tell you what its like. And yes, I have a disease. It interfers with my life more than you will ever know. I don't have "issues", I can't just simply go on about my life. My disease interupts my every day life, it doesn't just make me nervous, as you say. Right now, I am going thru things that most people wouldn't understand and its mainly because of my disease. For me, the depression far out weighs the mania, although I would much rather experience more mania than depression. I will be fine for a few months and then bam! Suddenly I am back into depression mode, with no warning most the time. Anything can put me into a depression state. Hell, about 6 months ago, it was because I took a nap and didn't wake up when the bus stopped in front of my house to drop my daughter off. I thought to myself "who in the hell takes a nap and doesn't wake up to get their child from the bus." I cried pretty much non-stop for a week. Even going to therapy 3 days that week didn't help me. Most of the time, I have no idea what sends me into mania or depression. And your right, Lithium isn't an anti-depressant. "A number of chemical salts of lithium are used medically as a mood stabilizing drug, primarily in the treatment of bipolar disorder, where they have a role in the treatment of depression and particularly of mania, both acutely and in the long term. As a mood stabilizer, lithium is probably more effective in preventing mania than depression, and may reduce the risk of suicide. In depression alone (unipolar disorder) lithium can be used to augment other antidepressants." So maybe lithium didn't work for me because I suffer more from the depression side of bipolar than the mania. Antidepressants are given to people who are bipolar. Maybe not just by themselves, but with another medication to help. Some medication isn't just developed to treat depression or bipolar, but they have found that they help. Some are anti-convulssion medication. And if I have to try that to help me, then I'm gonna try. Hell, I would even take an anti-malaria medicine if it was proven to help! That is how much I want to be in control of my disease instead of my disease being in control of me. But with limited resources, I have done the best I can. I totally agree that pills shouldn't be given as a first line of defense. But sometimes people are so messed up that pills are needed to balance them before anything else can be done. I have seen it more times than one. And, you may not have meant it, but it does feel like you are being down on people who use antidepressants. Just because they didn't work for you or you didn't need them, but the doctors didn't listen to you, doesn't mean they don't benefit thousands of others. That's the point I was making with my dad and AA. It has helped so many people, but it never helped my dad, even when he was really serious about gettin help. And, why if you knew you didn't need them, why did you take them? Sometimes doctors don't know everything, but that's not their fault. A lot of people don't tell their doctors everything they need to know to make a diagnosis. But, its not just antidepressants. One of my aunts has been on 7 different medications for her blood pressure. It took a long time to find one that really worked for her. The same is true of pain medications. I have tried different ones (over the counter and prescription) for my migraines, and found that lortab works really well for me, but it doesn't work for my mom and her chronic back pain. The same is true about treatments for cancer. Some people need chemo, some radiation, some surgery, or a combination. Not everything works the same for everyone. What medication MCR is on, might not work for me. And then again it might, I don't know what she is taking. As I have said before, I am looking into several different alternatives. Maybe its because I want a quick fix, maybe its because I'm tired of having to rely on pills to make me happy, who knows. I have found a procedure called neurocranio restructuring. The first one costs 1200, and each additional procedure is 900 and they have no way of knowing how many it will take. But, it says it helps back pain, bipolar, insomnia, and a great many more diseases and disorders. So, I'm hopeful that when/if I get insurance it will cover it. But at this point I'm still too afraid to let myself think I will get it since I have a a few pre-existing conditions. Rocki, just keep an open mind about things. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions. But when almost every story you comment on is asking about antidepressants, it gets kinda old. I know why you don't believe in them, as do a lot of other people. But you don't have to keep on it. Like I said, please don't take offense to what I say or be hurt or whatever. C.C., Thank you. I will continue doing what I have to to better myself. Whether that means medication or something else. Mcr does make some very valid points and hearing it from someone else who is bipolar, instead of people who have no idea, makes it more crediable to me.

• Rocki -- Bottom line here is that you are NOT an expert. Reading some new age philosophy bullshit doesn't mean you're any more enlightened than the rest of us. And even if I hadn't taken antidepressants, I still wouldn't agree with you because your opinions are so off the charts that only an insane person would agree with anything you have to say. Brittany Murphy and Michael Jackson did NOT die from an overdose of antidepressants. They died because they were morons who pumped themselves full of MULTIPLE drugs; and MJ overdosed on an propofol, which everybody knows. And telling everyone what your "therapy results" are (is that what they called it at Penn State?) sounds pretty narcissistic to me. Is that one of your issues? C.C. -- Thanks! :)

• Sorry wants

• Rocky, What are you talking about? I have not even addressed you on this story. If I must explain myself. The users I named have a way of writing that a person whats to keep reading what they have to say. They make a story of facts of interest. That's all

• C.C., I guess you're one of them. But don't be trying to give me a disease I don't have. I'm not an alzhiemer's patient. One thing I'm not is forgetful as the rest of the old bags my age. Never gonna happen.

• marie heck, And the other thing is that I have no problem with people who are mentally ill, I have a huge problem with doctors who tell them they have all kinds of shit they may or may not. If you truly have a "disease" doesn't it have to interfere with your functioning? Many times, we have "issues" that cause us anxiety and fear and anger that need to be resolved. That doesn't mean we have a full blown "disease." The difference is that maybe I experience a lot of anxiety but I never missed work because of it. An actual disease should interfere with your life, not just make you nervous. C.C. Nice try. I'm just fuming mad now, steam is coming out of my head. Har dee har har.

• Marie, You just keep doing what you are. Read what Mcr said she said it best. Anti-depressants and other medications for mentally illness have and will continue to help 100's of thousands of people all over the world.

• marie heck, I just re-read your post and you have me all wrong. I don't believe anyone should ever be ashamed to admit mental problems, in fact, I've found my own so fascinating that I shared my therapy results with everyone I knew and they found them equally as fascinating. I have a problem with drugs as the first line of treatment. It's just true as mcr had said, people want their quick fix. That's a bad way to look at life. And I'm not going to knock AA because it helps a lot of people, but sometimes people have problems that actually need to be dealt with by a professional. I believe that a lot of our physical problems are caused by stress. I listen to and read a lot of Deepak Chopra and I firmly believe the mind leads and the body follows. If a person truly needs medication, and it helps, then there should never be any shame in that. In fact, even thru my trials with these drugs, I am thankful for the outcome because I finally got what I needed. To address these incorrect thinking patterns, find out where they come from and replace them with correct coping skills. No drug can accomplish that.

• marie heck The terrible side effects that can occur are so rare but when you have so many people given them (and not necessarily for the reasons they are supposed to) that is just too much chance of tragedy. It's like saying this, it's been scientifically proven that 1 person in 2 million will kill as a result of having legs but since it's such a small number, we won't worry about it. The problem is this.. the shear numbers of people who have legs. Lithium is not an anti-depressant so I don't believe it works in the same way increasing serotonin.) If you are 25, you were not in the FDA approved age group to have Zoloft and anti-depressants are not supposed to be given to bi-polar people b/c it can result in on-going mania (or "activation" if you read the studies.) The reason I am against these is b/c I was given many drugs and almost ruined my life and was told I would need to be on them permanently. Unfortunately, I told each health-care provider (about 6 or 7 in total) the same story and all they did was give me medication. What was the real culprit is how I became depressed was from incorrect thinking patterns. I backed myself into a corner and could no longer function. When I was 13, my father killed himself after I had an argument with him. I then developed anorexia and after that bulimia. Then I was a heavy drinker. I lived for 20 years without incident. My depression started, when, 20 years later, my mother-in-law died. I would wake up like I had been shocked with electricity and think "she's dead." Like PSTD. Then my dog I had for 15 years died. Then my grandmother died. Then my father-in-law died. The truth of the matter is that I perceived that I had caused my father's death and when these other people started dying, I felt that was my punishment for whatever I was doing wrong. So of course I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong (but since that didn't exist, I was never going to find it.) So my thinking patterns broke down and I was totally confused, depressed and anxious. All the drugs they gave me caused full blown mania for over six months because my depression had nothing to do with chemical imbalance, as they would like to believe. Not one of these so-called professionals ever questioned the drugs, even though the only problems in my behavior had occurred while on the drugs. Sorry, I am going to be a bible writer like you! (No offense.)

• C.C., Thank you. I may not be as educated as some of the people on these comments, but I have lived a very hard 25 years and I go by personal experience. I'm not saying I put professional opinions on the back burner, but no one but me, and my family of course, knows what I go thru everyday. Its the same with my dad. He was a drug addict and an alcoholic for the majority of his life. He tried AA, and it didn't work for him even thought it does for thousands of other people. The only thing that helped him was going to a Christian rehab center and getting right with God, so to speak. What works for one, might not work for the other. I have lived most of my life in shame because of people who think just like Rocki. I thought I was a freak, crazy, insane, all those things. It wasn't until I had my daughter that I could cope a little better with my disease. I accepted that this is part of who I am and I had to better myself for myself if I was going to be a good mom. And if that meant being on medication, then so be it. I am not ashamed anymore. I talk openly about it with people. Some of those people being family and friends that had no idea about me. And that's for several different reasons. One being I didn't want anyone to know about me cause I was afraid of how they would treat me or think about me. The second being I was very good at hiding my disease from them so they never thought anything was wrong, so why let them think otherwise. Rocki, please don't take any major offense to anything I say. I like some of what you have had to say. But on this subject, I will never agree with you nor will you ever be able to change my mind.

• Sorry Marie I just read what you posted I better add you to the list. Well put, I have a good understanding of the way the medications work. How taking them and coming off of them can affect a person that much. I have a sick brother, he does not live with us, but I see his situation a little better in regards to his Meds. Thank You.

• Mcr, There are three of you on this website that I am impressed with. You, J and sometimes Ryan when he is not bullying people. But You Mcr, have a way of expressing your thoughts on paper(Website....)as if the reader is right there with you in the conversation. Your 23 WoW you have a great future ahead of you.

• Rocki, You know, I can understand that you don't like anti-depressants. But that is your opinion. And to sit there and compare people on them to drug addicts is a litte ridiculous. I will give you that when I was on them, I loved them. And its exactly why you say, I was happy on them. It took a pill to make me happy. No other thing worked but a pill. It hasn't taken me years and years to overcome the side effects or the "addiction" to them. I was on Lithium for 4 days. I stopped taking them, with the approval of my doctor, and was fine the next day. I then tried Seroquel since on top of bipolar, I also have insomnia. I took it for a week, and again, with the approval of my doctor, stopped taking them and withing two days, I was fine. The only one that I have taken that didn't have any side effects was Zoloft and the only reason I stopped taking that is because it wasn't helping all my symptoms. I have lived more than half my life being bipolar. So no, 2-3 months is not how long it takes to reverse the symptoms. It is something I will have the rest of my life. Well unless they can figure out how to permantely fix me. And not everyone that is on anti-depressants has thought about killing themselves or killed themselves or killed someone else. I never had a suicidal thought or an urge to kill anyone. It was when I wasn't on them that I tried to kill myself and that was only twice. When I am on them, they help me. When I am off of them, I am a wreck. My favorite uncle who killed himself had never been on anti-depressants. He killed himself because he had robbed a bank to pay back loan sharks because him, my aunt, and his two daughters lived way outside of their means and the cops were closing in, so to speak. It has clearly stated on all of my anti-depressants that suicidal thoughts may occour, especially in those younger than 24. It also says to not stop taking the medication unless directed by your doctor. Sometimes, I won't say most of the time, that is the reason people go off the deep end. If you take them and just stop, it is very unhealthy, but the same is true of a lot of medications. If you just stop them, and not wean yourself off them, especially if you have taken them for a considerable amount of time, it does have a major impact on your brain. But is that the medicines fault? Or even the drug companies fault? Why not put some of the blame on the person and not anything else. And that goes with anything, not just people on anti-depressants. A 14 year old kid kills his parents over chores, and people on that thread want to blame gun control laws. And you want to know if he has/was on anti-depressants. Why can't we just blame the kid? Maybe he really did just kill his parents because they were making him do chores. Its not that hard to believe. About a month ago, a kid hired someone to kill his mom over the same reasons. Why? Because he lost his mind. I understand where you stand on anti-depressants, and to a certain degree,I agree. I don't think they should be handing them out like candy. They are a very serious medication and need supervision, not just by the professional, but the person taking them and their family as well. It also says that friends and family should be aware of any mood changes on the information on anti-depressants. But to sit there and say they should be banned or whatever because they are "usually" the reason why people do what they do, instead of just blaming the person themselves, is just ludacris. What about the millions of people they have helped? What about the people that are on them and live relatively normal and productive lifes? What happens to the ones that these pills help if they are ever pulled off the market? I can tell you, they go back to their old selves, that's what. And I for one, don't like my old self. Right now, with no insurance, I can't afford them. It is very hard. Every day I have a constant battle going on in my head. I have to literally force myself to do the every day things that so many people don't even think about. It is a living hell every day. My only ray of hope is my family. Without my daughter, husband, mom, dad, sister, brother, brother-in-law, my 3 neices, and a few of my aunts and cousins, I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't kill myself, cause I know what its like for the ones left behind. I would probably be locked away somewhere. With all that being said, yes there are alternatives to anti-depressants. As I said on another story, I'm looking into those. But I also have no insurance and I am not rich, so those will have to wait til, hopefully, we get insurance through my husbands job. And the same is true for a lot of people. They can't afford the alternatives or the alternatives aren't considered the "norm" in the medical field so insurance companies may not cover them. But that doesn't mean that people should try to make the ones who are on anti-depressants feel horrible for making that decision. If that's the best they can do, then that's the best they can do. Some people don't need them, but others do and its not their fault. I didn't ask to be born with this. Its hereditary and I unfortunately was the one who got it. Just a quick question, and then I'm done with my rant. Are you bipolar? I think you have said you have been depressed, but is that it? I mean, nothing else, just depressed? I'm not trying to say that like just having depression is nothing. But being depressed and being bipolar are very different. So I'm just curious. Mcr, I'm sorry, but when you said you haven't had to urge to decapitate anyone lately made me laugh! Its good to see someone else who has a little bit of humor!

• mcr, Don't bother worrying about what a moron I am any more. You will never understand what I am saying because you are too young. I can see why you are so against my opinions on antidepressants and think everything I say is a lie. I can always tell when people are on anti-depressants because they always lose it on me sticking up for them and completely stop looking at facts. They are addictive and make people "happy" in the same mechanism as pot . If you knew anything about addiction, you would know that addicts go to great lengths to stick up for their addiction. If someone is truly depressed, like you said you couldn't get out of bed, then, yes they probably do need something, but years are too long to take these drugs, 2-3 months is long enough to remove the symptoms but the weaning off of these drugs is years long b/c the brain becomes so addicted. No doctors want to bother getting people off of them because that is actual work. Any symptoms the drug was originally taken for like anxiety or OCD will get more pronounced over time as the serotonin levels build. It doesn't serve the purpose of doctors and pharmaceutical companies to get people off of the drugs and most people do not want to stop taking them anyhow b/c they make people "happy" and almost no one has that much will power, just like a heroin addict will never be able to get off heroin without outside help. They are starting to cover up all the deaths, like Brittany Murphy, her coroner's report is sealed, they couldn't seal Michael Jacksons. Also, all these people on Alyssa Bustamante that take anti-depressants are completely against the idea that they had anything to do with it, saying that could not be possible, when all the actual evidence points to the fact that it probably is the reason. Obviously, most people on anti-depressants do not decapitate people, but that is only one of the side effects, most side effects are not that severe.

• Go to sleep baby.......it's past your bedtime.

• "I'm sure you're mom is much more stupid than I." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Ooooooh man! That sentence made me laugh out loud. I forgot to mention that. The fact that you're trying SO hard to sound like you're not a total dumbass and you fuck it up, once again. You talk about how I want to be the smartest person on here (or whatever 4th grade rationalization you use to avoid the fact that you're an idiot), yet you're constantly trying to prove to me that you're not what I think you are. Failing miserably, I might add. Keep it up! It's pretty entertaining.

• mcr, Tell me you don't think...when you feel down and that everyone's asking too much from you.. that you don't think the words.."dig deep inside yourself and do something nice for someone you think is totally spoiled and undeserving and it will make you feel better." I know you think that. Ha ha I'm a moron.

• Aw, you got your feelings hurt and now you're insulting my mother. Pretty lame, especially for a 40-year-old (The same 40-year-old who assumed I was an elderly person who needed dentures when I'm actually 23). And you can't just use words like "ironic" without actually explaining why it's ironic. You saying he was the father of six and an English teacher and then just throwing the word "ironic" at the end, naturally I will assume that you were referring to the so called "irony" that he would off himself. I didn't think you made up the story about your dad. I'm sick of you making up your own definitions for words. "And if you expect that a child, an innocent 13 year old girl deserves to live with the fate of wishing herself to be physically punished in those ways, then I pray for you." Seriously don't even know what the hell you're talking about there.

• mcr, Actually it's very "ironic" b/c my father was an English teacher and you keep correcting my spelling & grammar. I'm sure you're mom is much more stupid than I. What are her credentials? Doctorate, graduate school, Harvard?

• Of course you did. Because you think I made it up. But I haven't. And it's so "unfortunate" no, it's greed. And if you expect that a child, an innocent 13 year old girl deserves to live with the fate of wishing herself to be physically punished in those ways, then I pray for you.

• I have a couple of friends whose father's committed suicide. It still doesn't make you an expert on anything. And it's not ironic, it's unfortunate. Once you mentioned what your dad did, I lost you. You stopped making sense, other than getting the point across about your dad placing his head on some train tracks. And no, not every woman suffers from postpartum depression. Only 5 to 9% of women develop postpartum depression. Quit making shit up, for fuck's sake. It's getting old.

• Sweetie, Every woman who has had a child has had post-partum; it can't be avoided b/c is physiological as opposed to psychological. It comes from a severe reduction in progesterone compared to estrogen. And if they are willing to deal with a "couple of deaths" then, this is the deal. Everyone can feel happy and giggly and my father walked in front of a train going 30 MPH when I was 13 years old, after being "treated" for depression for 3 years. (father of six children & and English teacher-irony.) If you can imagine the feeling of utter self-loathing to lie your head on a train track and feel the wheels smash your skull at 30 mph, well then, anti-depressants deserve to rule the world. Because my mother said his wallet was intact and given to her by the police. But I'm not going to get stuck on this, b/c I didn't do it. I'm going outside to play in the snow. So take your drugs, drink your drinks and get served by the system. I have other plans.

• Honey, I worked as an insurance underwriter for The Zenith when I was a freshman in college. I had never worked in insurance before and had no experience in that field whatsoever, but since I'm a lot smarter than most people, I got the job. It's pretty easy stuff and doesn't mean you know crap about the statistics you claim you do. I didn't say you were wrong; I said you didn't make sense. "Just because one line of treatment is covered by insurance and another may not be doesn't mean you should take it. That's like saying, my work will pay for my lunch out of I eat the human brain-kabobs but not if I eat the regular beef. I better take the human brain-kabobs and see if that'll work, it's my only option." And did I say that medication should be chosen over therapy? Did I? NO! I most certainly did not. I said that since most insurance companies do not cover mental health, that most people end up going the medication route because they can't afford therapy. Unless you're working with some program that offers a sliding scale, you're going to be paying at least $150 per appointment. In these times, people don't have that kind of money to toss around. Plus, everyone in this country is obsessed with their quix-fix, whatever the fix may be. I never said I didn't agree with the fact that more women are given antidepressants. You're focusing on ONE problem: postpartum depression. Not ever woman has a baby, and not every woman who does experiences postpartum depression. Not every woman who takes antidepressants suffers from side effects at all. In fact, MOST DON'T. If the majority of people who took these meds tried to off themselves or someone else, they'd take them off the market. The sad fact is, the medications help SO many people, that the government and pharmaceutical companies are willing to deal with a couple of deaths here and there as a result. I was diagnosed as bi-polar by some pill-happy psychiatrist when I was 11 years old. I firmly believe that you can't diagnose an 11-year-old with bi-polar disorder. I was prescribed meds, they made me feel funny, I stopped taking them. I continued the charade for YEARS! Pretending to take my medication daily, letting my mom know when I needed more. I'm glad I did that, because if there is one thing I believe about psychiatric medication, it's that it should only be given to a child as an absolute last resort. However, a year ago I decided that I needed to go on something. I wasn't happy, couldn't get out of bed some days, etc. Now that I'm on antidepressants, I almost never have a problem with depression. And I haven't had the urge to decapitate anyone. Ever think that some of these stories might be the result of NO medication? Does that ever occur to you? If you're 40 years old, I might as well drop out of school now, since I'm going to turn into a total moron in 17 years. Eh, maybe I'll have better luck. I know my mom has never sounded as stupid as you do 99% of the time.

• jadensmokes, I know that you told me on another post that I am way to much into psych meds, but all these ailments in the US that are handled imroperly seem to resonate from the same dept., the FDA. Here's some information that may hit closer to home and this story. According to a new study (Liz Crenshaw has reported it, Tufts Univ.) Packaged frozen dinners and many other packaged foods are off on calories an average of 20%, which is about the exact amount of cutting back on calories people would need to lose weight. Some of the foods were off a whopping 29% or 30% at restaurants or in packaged dinners. 30% could actually cause weight GAIN. The calorie counting technology used on food labels hasn't been updated since the early 1900's. The FDA allows a 20% variance in the caloric content but 99% accuracy in weight. If they can get the weight 99% accurate, they can get the calories more accurate than 70% (packaged only b/c they are using machines, not restaurants where chefs and cooks prepare, that is impossible.) The FDA also has gone to great lengths to make the calorie labels very visible (ha ha even though they know they are wrong) No wonder we are fat, frustrated, depressed and medicated. The FDA should be dismantled b/c so many conflicts of interest between the pharmaceuticals and health care industry make it impossible to do it's job. The FDA and companies associated with it have been caught and prosecuted for lying more times than Richard Nixon. If not dismantled, the FDA and healthcare industry would be a great new assignment for the military police once we get them out of Iraq. I bet things would shape up quickly with MP's assigned to offices and board meetings.

• Thank you once again mcr for correcting my one grammatical/spelling error. But I find your reasoning that I am a moron because I am giving facts, fascinating. Am I correct in assuming that you are trying to say that women are not more often treated for depression than men? (Actually given anti-depressants at the rate of more than twice than of men, in the US.) And if women have numerous hospitalizations for mental illness as a result of these "treatments" that has no effect on their insurance rates since health insurance usually doesn't cover mental illness? And I guess the Mother's Act would have been a great thing? You didn't even bother to read my link or look that up. You just like to argue with people on technicalities to make yourself believe your smarter with your BA in Womens Studies and working on your JD. Please come back down to earth. I have a BA in Psychology & Biology from Penn State and worked as an insurance underwriter for six years and have numerous other coursework for underwriting and human rights. I have been working for over 25 years, ever since I was 15. So chew on those qulifications which make me a moron. If you have such a chip on your shoulder because people tell you your major is bogus that you have to pick on me by correcting my almost perfect spelling and grammar, you need to surround yourself with some different people. I actually find it hard to believe that your degree is actually in Women's Studies when you are disagreeing with so many known facts that pertain to women.

• Um...if you think that pregnancy and menopause are the only times out reproductive organs need attention, you're sorely mistaken. Saying that our insurance rates are higher because of pregnancy, menopause, and psychiatric medication is being pretty specific. Whereas I corrected you by pointing out that all women (young, old, pregnant, not pregnant) require more maintenance than men. Other than that, nothing you said made any sense whatsoever. I'm surprised you have anyone to sign a paycheck for you, considering you're probably the dumbest person to grace this site. And the proper term is "couldn't care less." Saying you could care less means just that...you COULD care LESS. Got it? It's never-ending with you! How can you argue that you're not a total moron when I've not once read anything by you that was correct? Maybe go do another hundred hours of research that won't stick.

• mcr, Here's a tip. If you want everyone to think you're the smartest, you may not want to go around telling me how wrong I am and then proceed to prove my wrongness by reiterating what I just said (yours: "reproductive organs".....mine: "pregnancy, menopause"-I feel they say the same thing.) You may have realized that if you weren't so hung up on my singular spelling error. The only person I care what opinion they have of me is the dude who signs my paycheck and last time I looked, it wasn't you, so say what you want, I could care less. As far as the "facts" I throw around and the research, well I have done hundreds of hours. The pharmaceuticals come into play b/c of post-partum depression, which first line treatment is drugs, the mother's act, etc. (The post-partum depression they are talking about is a newly invented version fabricated around making money off these drugs, real post-partum depression lasts for 2-4 days and then goes away, and if you must have research, I know b/c I fucking had it and that's exactly what it was like.) Just because one line of treatment is covered by insurance and another may not be doesn't mean you should take it. That's like saying, my work will pay for my lunch out of I eat the human brain-kabobs but not if I eat the regular beef. I better take the human brain-kabobs and see if that'll work, it's my only option. There are thousands of stories of women who have been given anti-depressants and have woken up every day for years and fight back the urge to do harm to themself or their baby until they are off the drugs. We only hear about the ones who make the news. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQW23XCmOCw

• Rocki, the sad truth today is this: I personally know more working women than working men. The tables HAVE turned. More women today are the bread winners, and many are single parents, not even getting child support. Your logic is seriously flawed. Your reasons for pay gaps are bogus. Call it what it is.

• First and foremost at least the brother (though raised by the same simpleton's) realized that what his parent's were doing to his sister was wrong! Good for him for standing up for her and telling it to someone outside of the family! I think about that poor child hungry and doing her HOMEWORK under a sliver of light by the door.At least maybe these kids will (especially the girl) at least will get some sense of a meal for now, It sux that they will now be thrown into a vast "system" away from all that they have known as family beacause the fat simple simon one's that had don't deserve children!! But now they are uprooted and thrown into a world of uncertainty!

• Also, Rocki -- I've noticed from your other comments that you seem to be somewhat obsessed with the potential side effects of antidepressants and other psychiatric medications. It is very rare that such severe side effects occur in adult women. Children and young adults are much more susceptible to these side effects, yet you throw out these so called "facts" around on nearly every page. You're missing the point entirely. The one major reason why insurance companies don't want to cover women is because of our reproductive organs, plain and simple. We require more maintenance than men, and of course we always run the risk of getting pregnant. Most insurance companies don't even cover mental health, so they couldn't care less if you need to stay in some sort of psychiatric facility. They do, however, cover prescriptions, hence the rise in the use of pharmaceuticals over therapy. For God's sake, do some real research. I mean, this is just stuff I know. If you have enough time to leave 10 comments per page, you have enough time to go learn something of value.

• Rocki -- What is this "constition" you speak of? Never heard of it.

• Ohara, may the Gods smile upon you.

• food they were worried how much she might be eating.....does it look klike they missed a meal. i swear i dont know what parents are thinking these days...

• deb, I'm simply stating why gaps in pay and insurance exist, not sticking up for them, and that taking the whole group (averages) of women, compared to men. If more men stayed home with kids and their wives worked, then the opposite would be true. But that is not as common as the other way around.

• The girl took this mistreatment without saying a word or asking for outside help. Perhaps the parents did it because they could. Mental abuse is the one that is the most difficult to get over yet many "good" parents dish it out in huge servings and see themselves as excellent parents. Our entire country is lacking in humanity, compassion, self worth. Building self-esteem keeps people from becoming victims as well as victimizers. I would guess there are many additional problems in this one household and they all can't be punished away. Our most precious resource is the family unit and this is an example of one that makes me want to dig in, tackle the problems and find workable solutions that carry on to future generations. Instead, we will exact revenge from the wage earners and the kids gets tossed around. Down the line they will be family again living in poverty, carrying the same problems and we will be the bad guys. When do we start turning things around?

• En la foto eres una vaca inchada de tanto comeres, fea como un morciego .... tu marido tiene "cara" de shemale .... pasarás la eternedad en el infierno y es poco .... buena estada en la prision y que te tomen por el c....

• To Rocki: you are messed up. Where do you get your so-called 'facts'?? Do these facts apply only to single working women with children?? What about women without children?? And those without health problems - mental or otherwise??? Are you trying to justify gender discrimination? Inequality in pay because of gender IS discrimination. Your reasoning is ..............f*'d up.

• yeah, they say they didnt want the girl to steal the food, looks like the mother (fat pig) was eating it all herself! I hope they rot!

• Actually, this should make you feel better about yourself, it's our actions that make us who we are, nothing else, when we leave, we only leave what we have done here. People can look for everywhere, but they will never find you, just the kind words hard work, and good results you have left behind.

• And I know it should be "woman". There's no edit on here.

• Yay. Another story about a morbidly obese parent starving her child. More comments about how stupid fat people are. So as an obese women this is just totally going to make my life brighter as I of course don't already get enough hostility thrown my way. Thank you, crazy fat woman. I almost thought I could go through life minding my own business, but you've shown me that everyone else has a right to demand that conform to certain physical form OR ELSE. That's a relief.

• jadensmokes, Were this guy's parents in a age group that lived thru the great depression? That apparently was such a huge traumatic experience, (my grandmother lived thru it with 11 younger brothers & sisters) that no matter how much she had, she could never shake certain habits to the day she died.

• I had a friend when I was young and his parents had locks on all the cabinets containing food as well as the refrigerator. He was very slim, but not malnurished. I thought how utterly controlling and cruel. Don't know what ever happened as he got older, but he probably has a binge problem once older. It is so cruel to do this to the little girl! Did you see the pics of her on mom's myspace? she is just breath in britches! frail and tiny looking. And her sickeningly fat momma has mostly pictures of herself with captions underneath that she commented about how pretty she is...WTF? Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder, I don't think she is the least bit attractive.

• mcr, I hope that makes your day brighter to find me wrong, but if you understood what I was saying, I said per the constition, not in real life. I would not argue with the points you brought up because I already know they are facts. They are also averages. Women don't get paid as much for actual reasons, they leave work to have children, therefore they don't have as much experience as men, as a whole group. Some women may choose a a lower paying job with less responsibility while their kids are young. Women have more health issues than men because their bodies have 2 major issues during their adult life as compared to men, with 0 after puberty. (pregnancy and menopause) The reason they pay more for health insurance is that once rejected, the insurer can charge more, also they have more health issues, they are mostly the victims, not perpetrators of domestic violence, and they are prescribed psych meds at a rate of more than twice that of men which leads to hospitalization and mental health treatment (especially suicide attempts.) They also respond much more poorly to these psych meds so that compounds the problem. More health issues --- more interaction with the medical industry --- more meds --- poorer outcomes --- the problem increases exponentially instead of in a linear way. I'd have to say with all these strikes against us, women are actually pretty damn resilient as a group!

• Obviously from the looks of the mother, there was no short supply of food as the mom looks hefty. Other than that, didn't anybody at school notice this girl was was malnourished?? Come on, if she looked to be 8 or nine years old, didn't ANYONE become suspicious?!! However, kudos to this poor young girl for actually going to school and doing homework. Hopefully she doesn't turn out to be a loser like her parents.

• What's wrong with the people nowadays? It really is sick, people. And the reason her parents locked her was because, probably, she was the only one stealing from the refrigerator. Poor girl. I hope she's alright now...

• Most sane parents want their children to grow up better and smarter. The Glutton mom did not want her daughter to turn out Obese like her that is why they put her in the closet. Not feeding her caused her to steal food the boys were fed. Not all people with Low IQ are incapable of rational thought but an obese person could suffer from depression and mental problems. It looks like they did raise one wise son and was smart enough to deal with the problem.

• They were scared that she would STEAL FOOD, from THEIR refrigerator. Why because they didn't want their daughter to become fat like they are? There is something seriously wrong with peoples perceptions on what is lawful, sympathetic and HUMANE!

• MCR, If anyone were to debate you they would be a fool. I am with you a 100%. I know that is why a lot of people do not care to much for me. I don't use big words, but I do get my facts correct. I do my research. Your information is totally correct. On the womens health insurance I found 49%?lol. I am very impressed that you are working on your JD, three years will go by fast. Good Luck with School

• Rocki -- Yet again, you are wrong. Women do not get equal pay in this country. Women are still generally paid 77 cents to the dollar that men are paid. Also, women are charged 50% more for health insurance than men, and are more often rejected by health insurance companies as a result, so we don't have equal medical treatment, either. P.S. I have a BA in Women's Studies and I'm currently working on my JD (let me guess...you don't know what a JD is?). I'm almost positive I know more about the topic than you, so no sense in arguing with me about it.

• p.s. I checked out the myspace page (thanks to Tom for the tip) and she claims that she is a proud parent. she also has family pics on there of her and her children...something is seriously wrong with these people!!!

• First of all, they thought their daughter would "steal" food? Last time I checked we were all entitled to food. Also, from the looks of the picture it doesn't look like that mother needs the food for herself!

• Good job, Jssi Woods. Maybe you should have your arms (then legs) broken in several places.

• Well u take a look at the parents and they look like a par of idiots anyway! look at the fat mum who obviously cant look after herself nor her children HAHA! people like this should not breed and should be stopped from breeding, a dumb ass will always be a dumb ass

• Was the first line of this serious, or a joke since the parents are fat? Because even though its crazy altogether that they'd lock their daughter in a closet, but its even crazier that they'd worry their skinny little daughter would steal food so thats why they did it. I cant believe someone would treat their own daughter like an animal. I cant believe even more they'd treat their daughter that way yet let their sons live freely like them. Whats wrong with people? Thank god for her brother having a good conscience and morals despite the parents who he was raised with. He may have saved her life.

• I'm talking about ANY culture that treats women as second class citizens. We are IN AMERICA! Women have equal rights, equal pay, equal medical treatment and they are seen as equal human beings per the constitution of the United States and don't ever forget it, thus I can say whatever the hell I want!!! We don't that kind of drunken neanderthal thinking here, we have enough regular crime. This woman does not look like the epitome of a happy wife to me. I totally can't understand why the kid was locked in the closet b/c by the looks of that woman, there is no lack of food in that house.

• Here's her MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/lety_luvs_bell

• Ragin, You R right, I'm a dumb ass. I forgot, all cultures treat women great and like they're equal to men.

• Is this really about race or just sick abusive people?

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