Do they have any continuing education classes at that school?

The age that adults can have sex with teenagers needs to be lowered to 14.

Hell a 14 year old can commit murder, be tried as an adult and go to an adult prison....why not let them make adult decisions about sex as well?

Come on people, even if you think the age of consent should be 14, these are their teachers! Doesn't ANYONE have a responsibility not to try fucking children, or should it just be a free-for-all?

I wouldn't mind repeating a year in HS there...

14 years old is not a child. Teenagers are not children because they are capable of reproduction.

It totally is a child, come on. If you're under 21, I could see you thinking that, because I sort of still felt that way, but I always would have had way too much guilt to actually act on the attraction. Even then, 14 seemed a far cry from 17. But now that I'm in my 30s, it's just not the same at all. Even 16 year olds to me now, they look like little children in a way that they didn't even 5 years ago. These girls at work the other day were being all flirtatious, and they might as well have been 12 with their braces and little girl behavior. It's ridiculous to measure maturity with puberty. Completely ridiculous. Again, not to mention that even if the age of consent was 14 in THAT particular state, it wouldn't forgive a teacher breaching their ethical responsibility with them.

Subspace,
Sometime you make some valid and good points, but that last posting you made on here makes me think maybe you should have your head examined.
So with your logic a 13, 14, or even a 15 year old is not a child?! Just because they may be capable of reproduction?! I read about a little girl 10 or 11 who got pregnant and had a baby. I can't remember the circumstances of her getting pregnant, whether she was raped or whatever the case was but that's beside the point, she was obviously capable of reproduction, so (keeping your logic in mind) are you saying that she wasn't a child either?

Children and teenagers act and think totally differently. 12 and 13 is kind of the gray area where they start to change in the way that they think and behave. By 14 they are defiantly not children anymore. In ancient Rome girls got married by 12, while I think that this is a little to young, I bring it up to point out the fact that sexual maturity is the main measure of no longer being a child. While teenagers are not adults, they are not children either. I can see measuring adulthood on a persons emotional level. But not teenagers. To it is not normal for people to be attracted to children, but it is very normal for them to be attracted to teenagers. It is normal for them to be attracted to teenagers because teenagers are no longer children. In the far past people lived very short lives, so in order to ensure survival humans evolved so that they would start having sex and reproducing while in their teens.

Two of the teachers were NOT with kids, they were just having a lezbo hug in the nude, albeit in a deserted classroom, this is a bad choice of rooms, but not abuse of any kind. All you self-righteous Christian sexophobes need to go stick your heads in the sand because you definitely are not realistic about sex, the truth is every human is sexual, but by some of the right-wing idiot comments here you would think that church people don't have sex organs.

Hey easy on the "right wingers" comments Fred, I'm a conservative, but I TOTALLY agree with you about the two teachers, with each other. Actually I think it's pretty awesome. Probably not the best choice of locations but.......nice.

Is this an all girls school with only female teachers? As far as the tryst between the two teachers, they really should have chosen a different locale. I would feel the same if it were a male and female. A classroom either empty or full of students is not the place to exress your sexual desires.

Hey Ryan, I would say that the 10 year old was still a child because a female of that age, while sometimes being able to get pregnant is not able to normally carry a healthy baby to term, plus to it causes damage to her own body. Many girls that have sex at that age suffer from cancer of the cervix as a result of having sex. Not to mention damage that would be done to the body from intercourse. So maybe I should rephrase it. For a female a non child would be someone that is capable of reproducing, and without facing damage to the baby or herself by being pregnant. Even if I can't make it fit with my orginial logic, in my book a 10 year old is a child.

Subspace
I see your point

Subspace,

What is it with you and acient greece? First, its ok to have sex (rape) with animals, because it was ok in acient greece, and now this? There is a reason we don't still think like that, we have evolved. Yea true back in the day (even about 50 years ago it was still ok) it was normal to get married really young. But nowadays that's just not the case. People are living longer and there are more opportunities besides just getting married and having children.

And I'm sorry, but if your a parent, it doesn't matter what age your child is, they will still be children. My daughter is 4 and believe me, in 10 years, she will stll be my child. I'm 25 and my parents still have a hard time sometimes realizing I'm an adult. It is something that happens when you become a parent.

And 14 isn't a child because they can reproduce? That is the worst statement I have ever heard! There are girls younger than that that are pregnant. So by your logic, 10, 11, and even 9 year olds aren't children anymore because they have had a baby and/or have been/are pregnant? Until they are 18, they are still legally children, no matter how "mature" they think they are. And even after that, some still have the mentality of a teenager. I know I did until I was about 20, and that was only 5 years ago!

The two teachers that got caught together, that's just kinda sick and wrong to do that in a classroom, especially with people still in the school! Haven't they ever heard of motels?!?!?! But the ones with children is just disgusting. Seems to me, they all should have shacked up together and left the kids alone.

Subspace what is your desire for 14 15 16 year olds? It doesn't seem like you have the emotional maturity to interest/attract someone your own age. If a 14 15 or 16 year old wants to have sex they can, with someone there own age not a predator that wants to take advantage of their naivety based on the fact they are young. How about you develope your self as a person education hobbies interests and make your self attractive to a consenting adult. Instead of impressing a naive young girl with the fact you have a car and an appartment. When a girl grows up and gets some life experience she sees a loser like you for what he is.

Now, as far the teacher/student thing thats wrong.Too many adults out there...But imagine being a student and walk in on those two teachers...? OOHH LA LA!

Amber, you have the wrong idea about me completely. Just because I talk about something does not mean that I do it, or that I am into it. Yes I do see teenage girls as attractive, but they are not what I think about often. I usually think about girls and guys that are in their 30's. I just feel that there is no good reason why having sex with people this age should be illegal. If it doesn't harm them to have sex with each other, then why would it harm them to have sex with an adult. First of all I don't try to flirt or date girls that are under 18, not because I think that it is wrong, but because first of all I don't want to go to jail, and second of all I don't have very good communication skills with youth. Even if I were to try it, it would be very unlikely that I would hook up with a girl younger than 18 simply because I have bad social skills with youth, I am kind of weird, I dress differently than everyone else, I am unable to work, I am scared of young girls because I was bullied by girls at the community college that I went too, and I really don't like to get out that much. I am a home body. In high school I was real popular, an A, B, student, and cute, I was even voted vice president of the student body my junior year, but after developing mental problems I was changed. I suffer from OCD, bipolar disorder, generalized anxiety, schizotypal, some learning problems, and some physical problems. To be perfectly honest most of the people that I hang around are in their 50's and 60's. I don't have a girl friend, and I really don't want one, although I do have several close female friends. If I really do need to have sex though, I don't go looking for some girl that is under 18, or to the older women that would date me, I just go to a prostitute. This is very rare though. You really don't know me that well. If you want to think of me as a loser, well that is fine, I really don't care, my friends and family sure don't think that I am a loser, but know this, I do not go after girls that are under 18, nor do I look at under age porn. But I don't mind telling people what I think about these things.

Amber you said that I should work on my emotional maturity in order to attract someone of my own age. Well you don't know my situation, I have a lot of things that are wrong with me. But I guess that doesn't matter because I am such a loser uh.

You said that I should work on my education. Well all I do most of the day is read about science, math, technology, history, social studies, psychology and the paranormal. Plus I went to a university, but I had to drop out because of my mental problems.

I have plenty of hobbies. I read, draw, watch birds, play chess, and play video games.

WHOA SUBSPACE!!!
Did I just read that correctly?! You feel that there is no good reason why having sex with people this age (14, 15, 16) should be illegal?!!! and the only reason you don't date girls under 18 is because not I don't want to go to jail, and that you don't have very good communication skills with youth?!!! HOLY SHIT!!! You should DEFINATELY be investigated you sicko! Can anyone say PEDOPHILE! You are SCUM, and I hope someone comes around and kicks your teeth in. You've just shown everyone how pathetic you are, I think we'll be reading about you on this website next under "sex crimes" and "creeps".
It doesn't suprise me one bit that you were bullied by girls at your community college. Maybe you shouldn't spray paint "free candy" on the side of your van.

Oh and subspace, yes you ARE a loser and don't try to fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

Amber you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Sick bastard. Question for you, are you a registered sex offender? Do you support NAMBLA? I hope your community knows about you.

subspace,
You need to get a new doctor (preferably a real one) I would interview a hundred before picking one if I were you. People don't just "develop" all those disorders over a short period of time. Maybe I'll have to take a break from everything after the cirrhosis, cancer, emphysema, and diabetes I developed over the week-end. I am not a doctor but common sense alone tells me that yours belongs in jail.

subspace,
I bet you're on a lot of medications too? And your mental problems seem to get worse and worse?

No you won't see me on this site, because I have never broken any laws.

Have a nice day.

Man, what an uneducated group of people. Rocki actually it is very common for a mental illness to develop over a short period of time. Go ahead and keep saying stuff, it amuses me.

Be amused. Bi-polar and schizotypal are developed over a lifetime. I think you are joking about all this. If not, I hope your doctors end up in jail where they belong, very soon, for your sake.

I suffered from mental problems as a child, but by the time I got to the 8th grade they seemed to not be as bad, but during my senior year of high school they developed in full force.

when i was 14 i had sex with what turned out to be a 12 year old. that was the youngest girl i ever slept with but up till the age of 18-19 i slept with plenty of girls around the same age as me, sometimes a year or two younger, sometimes a year or two older.
nowadays im in my 30's and i sleep with the same chick every night and have for the last 8 years. god im bored i wish i could sleep with teenage girls again

Subspace,

Not saying I agree with most of what your saying, but in regards to the bipolar, I know what you mean! I was "normal", or as normal as anyone can be, til I was 12. It all started when my favorite uncle killed himself and things went downhill from there til I went to couseling and was put on prozac. And before Rocki says anything, my mom and I researched the drug and at the time felt it was a good decision, and within a year after I first started to "change" I started the medicine and was fine. Then when I was 15 I decided to stop takin it because I felt it wasn't working anymore and decided to try zoloft. Again, before Rocki says anything, I did a lot of research on it before takin it.

No offense Rocki, as I know from other posts you have been through your fair share of challenges in life, sometimes the evil drug industries do help some people! And sometimes kids do have the choice. My mom always left it up to me whether or not I wanted to be on medication. But once I started it, I was on it til the doc said it was ok to get off it. She didn't force me to take it, more like monitered it. As I got older, she made sure I took it every day. But that was mainly out of concern to make sure I was "ok" with being a mother myself. Actually, I made sure she had the medicine and was there to watch me take it cause its very widely known that people who suffer from mental disorders don't always keep on their meds. And you will be happy to know that I am looking at alternatives to drugs. Not because I don't like them, I actually love the "high" feeling I get from them instead of being a bawling bag of emptiness most days. But because I hate trying to find one that may or may not work. That's actually almost as frustrating as living in hell every day! I have looked into shock therapy (not something I'm really considering!!!!!) and a procedure called NCR.

Sorry to get off subject! Sometimes I wished there was just a page on here where people could talk to eachother about things other than the stories! I really like talking to some of the people on here! In a way, its like therapy!!!!!! Lol ok, I'm gonna shut up now and move onto the next story!

Lock em up.

I want em all locked up. I want you locked up, them locked up and everyone else locked up. The only way the world will ever be safe is if everyone is locked up.

Private prison are the answer. Invest in private prisons, and lock everyone up.

Man, I would've loved to have been the meat in that lezbo sandwich!!

To rocki, Warden, Ryan, marie, thank you. I have lost all faith in humanity.

You showed me once again, how middle class people living in USA are incredibly stup|d, bigot, knowing sh|t about evolution, biology, medicine, culture and human nature. You suck, you believe in sh|tty truths and you don't understand anything about real world. Go watch Friends and go talk sh|t with you "firends" (the ones you don't have) having empty worthless, pointless and unproductive lives. Even in thousand years you won't get what reality is about.
When you'll be dying, you won't go away easily and peacefully. I know and you know as well, that you'll be afraid of the death, lingering on life till last second even if it means immense pain and suffering, because you are relly a weak sheep.

You are p|ssed off by idea of 14 years old teenagers having sex with adults, yet you are okay with supporting invasion into other souvereign countries and mass muder, just to steal oil so you can move your fat, ugly 150+ kg heavy asses in your big ineffcient cars.

You SUCK.

Subspace,

I'm surprised you didn't go play in the middle of the street when you were a little girl. For a parent to set back and allow a child to make a decision about taking prescription drugs is just plain bad parenting! Now, look at you, still wacked out...thanks mom. Don't play us like fools, there was no way to really research a drug back then and if you did get ahold of some information, it was what they wanted you to read. If you haven't heard the news lately, our society is corrupt. You have a demon in you Lady and all your doing is trying to find someone to listen to your non-sense and make us believe it. You needed a butt-busting when you were a little girl and sounds like you could still use one.

Nice! Them teachers are HOT. WOw.

Jesss
http://www.web-privacy.cz.tc

If someone touched my 14 year daughter, i would just kill them. What is wrong with you people? Whne did child molestation become ok :?

Who's the even say that the teacher did anything? Most children these days will lie to get out of being in trouble. For all we know, it could've been a hickie from her boyfriends, and she's just lying to cover it up. I'm not saying this is the case, but it has happened before.

Subspace, by your logic it should be legal 6-year-old girl to give oral sex to a 65-year-old man because she is "equipped" to do it. And then get married to him because "that's what people used to do".

Set up a road block, and so we can find God, and lock him up, he must be doing something against some law, if not lets make a new law, so we can lock God up too, it is the ONLY way we can be safe.

Invest in privately run prisons, buy and sell publicly traded stock in the private prisons ,,,advertise that we have God locked up, and then lock up everyone else.... when you all are locked up, then we will be safe.

Lets make some new laws and make everyone a criminal and then throw everyone in prison, God too, and then we will all be safe, except for the people in prsions, but then we can have prisons inside of the prisons so the prisons can be safe.

THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAFE IS TO LOCK EVERYONE UP, THROW AWAY THE KEY, including God.

Are you are memebr of the North American Marlon Brando Look Alike organization, then you need to be locked up too.

"God",

For one, I find that very tacky that you used that name. For two, I'm glad you think we think its ok for invasions and mass murders and all that. I'm glad you can tell that by what we post. Way to be on the ball there pal! Man, you got us all down. You really must be the man upstairs.

Buster,

Were you talking to me or subspace? Cause from what subspace has written, he is a he. I'm a she. So I'm not sure to who you are refering. But if you were talking about me, my parents did believe in spankings, and I got my fair share. And you would have said it was bad parenting if my mom forced the pills down my throat! And I'm not that old. I did have axcess to the internet to do research. Plus I had a cousin who majored in phsycology to help me along the way. But, like I said, its kinda hard to know who your talkin about since you can't keep things straight!

Why is it ok if a woman molests a child?

Is is because she's hot?

Gender bias at it's best in the court room.

I think women teachers under 30 should exempted :) except if they're ugly :P

YES because she's hot. you really have to ask that.
There's a difference between old men touching little girls.
e v i l e d d y said:

Why is it ok if a woman molests a child?

Is is because she's hot?

Gender bias at it's best in the court room.
Posted 02/04/2010 at 11:04:41 AM

I totally have a boner after reading this.

Marie heck, I agree with you. Sometimes we need a miscellaneous or rant posting spot. That way, when we get off subject, the people who don't want to read what we have to say won't have to weed through them. I'm just as guilty as the next person for going astray sometimes!!

Whats up with this school? Do they have staff work days that go over how to be a perv the best way? I can see it now, "this years insentive is to give the biggest perv a $500 bonus for each kid they touch."

I'd hate to be a parent in Brooklyn right about now. If all of that is going on in that school, I can only imagine what freaks are on their school board which would scare me about all the public schools in that area.

We don't live in ancient Rome! I wish people would stop trying to compare modern society with classical civilization. Our culture has arrived at this point where people rarely move out of their parents' homes until 18, and are therefore pretty unequipped to support themselves. Whether this is purely environmental influence or some sort of biological advantage, this is the point we have arrived at and we should be able to come up with some universal guidelines respecting our collective decision as a culture to see maturity as being completed after high school. Subspace, "libertarians" like you are helping NAMBLA justify what they do, and I take issue with it. No parent is ever going to believe that their child is an adult at 14. This isn't West Virginia 1945 we're living in. We've evolved past those times, and it's time to catch up with the rest of civilization so that we don't have a bunch more 14 year olds victimized by so-called sexually liberated middle-aged men who have impregnated them and ruined their lives. At that age, kids are too impulsive and don't use the foresight they need to make informed decisions about sex. If they sneak around with other 14 - 17 year olds and have sex, we responsible adults all are aware it happens and take the precautions to prevent it, and act accordingly, assuming it does/can/will. It doesn't mean we need to encourage some free-for-all state where adults can have sex with kids provided they are manipulative enough to make sure the kid will claim to have enjoyed it.

Isn't this the country that is completely obsessed with sex
but at the same time has the most stringent of laws concerning underage sex even when kids at school have a crush on each other,am I missing something here?

Wow, Alice makes a good point. Subspace's and other similar comments don't make any accounting for the fact that there are many physically non-damaging ways to molest children even younger than that, and none of those are justifiable. They still cause emotional damage. I think the main problem is, once someone is into their 20s and trying to have sex with teenagers, it's predatory whether they are 23 or 73. There have to be limits, and that's why we have age-of consent laws to begin with. And guess what? They allow grown men to freely have sex with 17 year olds in most cases. How could it possibly be any easier to abide them and still fetishize teenagers if that's truly what you want out of life?

How do I get to go to this school?

Niccce.

No one should be taking any of "subspace's" postings seriously or even as valid arguments to begin with. He's already stated that the only reason he doesn't try to pick up young girls is "not because it's against the law" but mainly because he "doesn't posess the communication skills to talk to young girls" His words not mine.
He's stated he doesn't see an issue with an adult having sex with a 13, 14, 15, year old kid. And he apparrently he's got several "mental disorders" again his words not mine. I'd say yeah he's got a mental disorder, it's called sicko pedophile. Anytime you see a posting from this creep, just ignore it. Hopefully someone is monitoring his computer and he gets discovered for the perv he is.

People...17 to 18 is the god damn legal age! Get over it. Geez...bunch of freaking immature idiots...These adults are probably the same age as your parents and would you like it that a teacher slept with your kids??? You probably won't,would you?

17? In what state is 17 legal?

Have to agree with Ryan, Subspace finally completely discredited himself. I feel for your mental problems, but that explains a lot. I think if you do find the right therapy/medication combination, you'll eventually find youreself some sort of healthier relationship and be less confused about what are appropriate attractions to have.

People are so ignorant, more every day. Why do the alarmists always resort to emotions, anecdotal evidence, or opinions instead of considering facts?
We DO live in ancient Rome! Our legal system is based on Roman law. We exactly emulate gladiatorial "sports" with everything from football, boxing, and hocking to MMA fights that are legally sanctioned (even with severe injury or even death now and then).

Forget about the fact your parents infantilize you by pretending you are still a child at 25, 18, or even 13--it's just a custom that many people have to try to live in DENIAL that they are aging and will die someday. I've seen it a hundred times--unattractive, fat, boring white woman pretends her teenage daughter is a "baby" and you are a "molester" if you bother to say Hi because it allows the woman to pretend she isn't so old if her daughter isn't so old.

Furthermore, forget all your opinions about when someone is mature or an "adult" or not. Nature says otherwise! Girls now start growing boobs and butts, menstruating around age 9 to 11, and engaging in sexually provocative or even seductive behavior precisely because our genetic programming, culture, and environment have decided that it's the right time. You can't deny, argue with, or get around that scientific certainty. And no matter how bad you want to imagine that we live in a world where "opinion" trumps "fact", it just doesn't work that way.

Oh and Big Maac and all the "outraged" parents, let me state with no uncertainty that you are completely living in denial about your kids, as well as yourselves! Everyone has been doing the same damn thing since the beginning of time! Whether in an unoccupied cave, the back of your dad's station wagon with tailfins, or in the treehouse with the blinds closed, everyone who has ever had the opportunity to engage in sex of any kind with anyone available has done it if they didn't allow guilt, repression, or fear to stop them.

I grew up in a small, quiet town of less than 15,000 people. By 8th grade (age 13), easily 40% of all the girls and roughly 80% of guys were sexually active. Everyone freely discussed who slept with who at Brandy's party, who made out in John's bedroom when his parents were out for the day, who sucked who's dick, etc. In 9th grade, I personally knew 5 different girls who had to get abortions around the same time, and of course this was kept secret from their parents. In 10th grade I knew a girl who had experimented with a lesbian love affair over one weekend with a woman in her late 20s.

During my 20s, I knew of several families in which older brothers and sisters "played with" their little siblings (some as young as 8 or 9) whenever people weren't around. I've had kids describe watching their older sister and boyfriend do it in front of them, or they knew about oral sex (one 9yr boy told me, "I'm a fag, I want to suck it", and he was not a "victim", just normal). One former girlfriend of mine lived with a couple and their kids and the woman openly told me she didn't see what the big deal was about incest while the kids played in the nude. I did not directly witness the "fire" of incest, but boy there was plenty of smoke! THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DO WHEN NO ONE IS WATCHING!!!

And YOUR kids are sexually active whether you want to accept it or not, so get over! America is one of the most sexually repressed societies on Earth, yet with all this tight observation and monitoring, we're also a nation with some of the highest incidences of unplanned teen pregnancies, rapes of all ages, and sexually transmitted diseases, not to mention the billions spent on porn because people are so sexually frustrated. However, in countries where sex is viewed as a natural and rewarding part of life ... beginning in childhood if not birth itself ... between any people who are nice to each other, whether they are related, friends, or teacher/student, guess what? Rape, assault against women/kids, porn, sexual diseases, etc. are virtually unheard of! Wow, imagine that. Maybe WE are the ones who have it all wrong, so everyone please become well educated before you take a stock or "majority" opinion all the time. Your preconceptions and self delusions have no basis in fact and do more to hurt our kids than all the people combined who you Imagine as sexual predators lurking in the shadows. And last thought, there's no such thing as a dirty old man. You want to know a pedofile? Look at your next door neighbor, your best friend, your boss, your aunt, your cousin, your coworker's daughter, and even your teacher. EVERYONE has these feelings and impulses and no amount of denial in the world or pointing your finger at someone and saying, "He's the bad guy!" will absolve you of your innermost secrets. So grow up and accept sexuality of all kinds as just part of being human!!!

Oh, one more thing ...
We are not goddamn "evolving" in just a couple of thousand years!!! We are essentially the same people physically, emotionally, and genetically that walked the Earth before North America was settled!!! Don't confuse culture with evolution! Even just 40 years ago, it was still perfectly legal to have sex at a multitude of different ages depending on what state you lived in. Age of consent ranged from 0 to 5 to 12 to 15 to 17 all over the place! Just 20 years ago, the age of consent in Louisiana was still 16! It is only current misperception, media programmed opinions, and manufactured, false "psuedo-science" that has lead people to start thinking that sex was bad, wrong, or a form of "violence". If you take away someone holding a knife to your throat, coercing you emotionally, or otherwise deceiving you into thinking they "love" you, then sex is just sex--a highly pleasurable physical activity. Hell, Stamford univ. (I think) has an ultrasound of a 4 month old GIRL fetus masturbating! Even infants can lubricate and get erections, experience orgasm, and even have erotic fantasies and feelings, so stop pretending otherwise everyone! Trust me, you will feel 1000 times better without all this unnecessary guilt and frustration in your lives. Just accept your natural state!

first off nice rant "God"

As far as subspace, whoever thinks mental illnesses can't just come up in life is wrong, I have brothers (from a different father) who we're fine until late adolescence. Then it hit them....

The sex factor on the other hand, I am torn 2 different ways, I don't believe and adult and a 14 year old is ok, but I kind of draw the line at 16, maybe not for a 20 something, but with the "parental consent" laws it puts things in a way to where maybe an 18 or 19 year old could engage in relations with someone at 16 (only 2 or 3 yrs the senior remind you) and let's say the parents are ok with it... Well what if the young couple have a bad break up?... Let's say the guy cheats on the girl and pisses off the parents, doesn't that leave the opportunity for them to go after the said 18 or 19 year old, leaving him labeled a sex offender for engaging someone only 2 years or 3 years younger?

I see that as wrong, putting the kid in a offender database, I can check with GPS on my iPhone, where charges are listed so vauge, my 1st impression is he did something with a 15 year old boy. When (IMHO) he did not do wrong just by having dated someone 2 years younger.

I think the law should just cut at 16 years of age, no consent stipulations. What we need is to better teach our kids that there are older perv's out there and how to handle it. It is still a common thing for parents too either skip or be WAY too late on talking about sex with their kids, or not talking enough about it, if their going to do it, even with kids around their age, we need to teach them how to be smart... And, no I am NOT advocating 20-somethings to be messing around with 16 year olds, and after 18 I did not either, but I remember being an 19 year old, and having to hold myself back a couple times when 16 and 17 year old girls (very attractive too) would hit on me, because I was "older" and "cool".

Do you guys think I am wrong for thinking like this? Cause some of you seem like real conservative Bible thumpers, which I find ironic cause if I'm not mistaken in your cherished Bible, adults did mess around with 14 year olds...
But then again they also believed in imaginary things, so who knows...

....I really think some of you all need to have a think about what your saying.

Though I think that there shouldn't be a punishment for two consenting teengaers to have sex with each other (though they should be made aware of the dangers), the idea that adults should be able to prey on people, who no matter what their physical development may be, are still young enough and naivee enough in the vast majority of cases to be manipulated and abused by older partners is totally reprehensible and is just some kind of sick self deluded justification.

People seem to fixate on the idea that the human body is able to reproduce at a certain age, so it must be ok. That is crazy talk. People can do all kinds of things from a young age, does that mean they should? I am a pretty damn liberal guy, but what your suggestion offers no protection to vulnerable, oft confused young people who are racked with hormonal changes. Give them a chance to grow into themselves before you sick assholes try and take their youth away.

Some of you people need to be sterilised.

Cultural evolution is totally relevant. You're splitting hairs. That's not a worthy argument.

...nor are your others, for that matter. Saying we "do live in ancient Rome" because we adopted the idea of a Republic or other legal concepts, comparing football to bloodsport, fighting to the death and people being fed to lions, all the nonsensical ramblings about parents infantilizing their adult children, or threatening you for saying hello, etc., ect., make you sound like a nutcase who is defensive about being attracted to children.

Thanks Scott, I will definitely be adding you to the Subspace category of "would molest children if he knew he could get away with it" category of taking everything you say with a grain of salt. You obviously are pretty down with the idea of all forms of pedophilia, so I'm glad you outed yourself as such. Good to know that you support adults molesting babies from birth, that you don't see anything sick about that. We'll be better informed now to disregard anything else you might say in the future as coming from the perspective of a sick mind.

Scott, I think I may be the only one that read that LONG rant of BULLSHIT you just took so much time to type. Seriously I think you and Subspace need to get together with your child molestor vans and drive off a cliff. You're probably the same guy. Why do sick fucks like you try to justify your fantasies of little girls/boys with "they mature sexually at an earlier age" do you REALLY believe that makes it ok?! Yes kids are having sex at younger ages but they are having sex with kids their own age! Just because they are having sex does not make it ok for a fucking pervert like you to try and get in on the action you sick fucking perverted bastard.
And if you honestly think a 4 month old FETUS has the capability to masterbate well then I think you are just trying to look for a reason to justify your fantasy of being intimate with an infant. You are a SICK twisted perverted ignorant fucking loser.
And by the way babies erections are not caused by anything sexual, sorry to burst your perverted fantasy bubble but I'm not going to let you try to justify being a pedophile. And yes I AM pointing my finger at YOU, because a normal person doesn't have sexual desires for kids, no matter what you have fooled yourself into believing. SOMEONE CALL THE COPS ON THIS SICK FUCK!
I'll say the same thing I said to you when you were using the screen name "Subspace" I prey to God someone comes along and kicks your teeth down your perverted pedophile throat. And you should prey you never come across someone like me.

I am litterally seeing red right now because here we have an OBVIOUS pedophile, making postings on this site and there's nothing we can do about it. I know this is a place for people to make opinions and arguments, but this is a whole new story. Pete, is there any way to trace this "scott" guy? It sounds pretty obvious to me that he has acted out on some of his beliefs or else he wouldn't be defending the act of pedophelia so much. Sounds to me like justification to confiscate this guys computers, hard drives, search for a kiddie porn basement etc. I'd bet my life on it this guy is a multiple sex offender.

Ryan, I have to agree with you and the others. These two sound like they need to be monitored somehow. However, I'm not all that convinced they are one and the same. Also, I'm pretty sure the site moderators can track down either IP address or something to see who is posting.

I think there are two different conversations going on here. This story is about an adult and a minor, we all know that's illegal. But there are a lot of comments about minors being sexually active with other minors. Even though we would like to prevent that, it's not illegal is it if it's two 16 year olds? I mean, it's not a crime if they are the same age is it? Even though they get told not to, I think we all know they are going to anyway a lot of the time. Why would anyone be sticking up for 16 year olds with 30 year olds, that's gross. People should be with people their own age, that's normal.

Rocki,
This "scott" guy is insinuating that if a kid/child regardless of their age is having sexual feelings it's ok for anyone of any age to be intimate with that kid/child. Basically he is trying to convince everyone that pedophelia is ok and normal. He even suggested that babies yes you read that right BABIES have sexual urges and desires his words were:

"Scott: Even infants can lubricate and get erections, experience orgasm, and even have erotic fantasies and feelings, so stop pretending otherwise everyone! Trust me, you will feel 1000 times better without all this unnecessary guilt and frustration in your lives. Just accept your natural state!"

Ya know now that I read those words again, it sounds like he's trying to recruit people to be a pedophile along with him.
SCOTT = PEDOPHILE
All of these bullying stories in the news, hopefully people on here bully you untill you kill yourself Scott, I sure hope you do.
SCOTT = SICKO PEDOPHILE LOSER

Scott, I wish I knew where you lived. If so I'd probably be the subject of debate on this website for being the guy who tortured and beat to death (with his bare hands) a sick and twisted child predator (you). I just hope the parent that does end up sending you to your rightful place burning in hell is praised as a hero, I know in my eyes they will be. I'm not worried though, evil people like you end up being discovered as the monsters you are sooner or later. Just please, when you get caught, put up a fight, so someone gets the chance to stomp your head in.

WHAT THE HELL. Okay, all you people saying a 14 year old having sex with a teacher is fine, are absolutely WRONG. At that age, hormones are flying. The poor girl will get confused with that teacher pressing herself against her, and start to get wrong impressions. The 14 year old might be old enough for her own decisions, but mentally, her mind is still in the development process of right and wrong. The teacher should know alot better than her.

So this is what they teach at that school? Why don't they just use the school for teaching sex education. Hands on?
Extra credit for after school activities. Term papers written in the style of Ovid. Can't you just see the students fighting to stay in school? An idea whose time has come.

@Ryan and J

If you considered backing up your ramblings with facts and clear-concise arguments, people might take your points seriously. I'm not saying I agree with Scott, but at least he took the time to clearly word and defend his argument: name calling, labeling, and feverish emotional outbursts offer little substance in any type of debate.

And if you’re looking for some substance for in your arguments, you might conceder delving deeper into the roll and social responsibility teacher’s posses in our society. What consequences arise when we allow the shapers of young minds, to become more than the intellectual corner stone of our children’s development? Teachers are accepting greater and greater responsibility in the lives of our children each day. How is this affecting the student-mentor relationships that have existed throughout all recorded history?

Obviously there is an issue here; a solution can be found. If we took the time to discuss the issue and work towards a collaborative answer, we could save a lot of the time and energy we waste hating each other.

@Subspace
I may have been the only one who appreciated the courage it took to be honest in such a judgmental society. I wish you best of luck with your current situation, you sound like a lucky person to have such a supportive group of friends and family. God Speed.

No he never said anything about wanting to have sex with kids.
I think what's he's pointing out is how many ppl are screaming insults and threats about someone else and calling them sicko, molester, etc. while they do the same stuff, like women carrying on the myth of being kids' protectors while fucking some junior high "lover" or the woman i saw at a wedding once who "accidentally" bumped her hand against a little girl's behind after staring at it as she tried to squeeze down the aisle. Like the guilty dog barking the LOUDEST Ryan!!!

Where can I enroll my teen son in this school? He needs to get away from this "I think I'm gay" bullshit!

What the teachers that had relations with the kids was wrong.
But kids now a days have grown up so fast.
Some have sex, some do drugs, some gang up and beat on other kids, some develop eating disorders, some dress goth or gangster.
They may not realize what they do is stupid at the time, but they are aware of what they are doing is good or bad.
I know that parents will always see they're kids as kids.
But you have to remember that they have their own life, they have their own thoughts and decisions.
This is reality.
I'm not saying that having sex with a 14 year old is right. It's completely wrong in every sense. What i'm trying to say is, that 14 year old was aware of what was going on. Its not like the teacher attacked her against her will. The student should get punishment as well, like community service or something.

Rob:
You're a vulgar man. You should love your son for who he is, not what he is.

Yea, scott did "take the time to clearly word and defend his arguement". Dave, your right there. What I took from that is he thinks its ok to engage in sexual intercourse or whatever with anyone, no matter what the age. Because he stated clearly that "even infants can lubricate and have erections, experience orgasms, and erotic fantasies and feelings, so stop pretending otherwise everyone! Trust me, you will feel 1000 better without all the unnecessary guilt and frustration. Just accept your natural state!"

Now, to me, that one paragraph from his whole rambling, just screams pedophile. Anyone who thinks it ok to get all "hot and bothered" by a baby boy with an erection is sick. Its not a "natural state" as Scott claims. It is very unnatural. And how does he know that babies have erotic fantasies and feelings? I have never heard of anything like that, except when its coming from a pedophile or possible pedophile. And even if (and I mean a BIG IF) they had a 4 month old fetus masturbating, that does not mean that you can have a free for all with any child.

Now, I'm not one who will usually jump to conclussions about people on a website, but Scott just makes me sick. Anyone who thinks any of what he said is true or ok, needs to be examined. I have a 4 year old daughter and anyone who thinks its ok to try to force themselves on her, because its our "natural state", better hope the cops are around.

With that being said, this story is about a 14 year old and a grown teacher. The teacher SHOULD know between right and wrong and tryin to have sexual relations with a 14 year old, are wrong. For one, its against the law. And even if it wasn't, who in their right mind wants to engage in sexual relations with a 14 year old? When does that become the "norm". Oh, in the pedophile circles its ok. Sorry, forgot!

As for the whole age of consent laws. They differ from state to state. Where I live (Kansas) the law is 16. Do I see anything wrong with a 16 and 18 year old? No. Anything wrong with a 16 and 20 year old? A little weird, but still its legal. A 16 year old and anyone above 20 isn't right, to me. Age is just a number, but there are some instances when that line shouldn't be crossed. Me personally, I would never have been with someone that much younger than me. My husband is 9 years older than me, and that's a big enough gap for me. Had I known him 10 years ago, I wouldn't have even looked at him. Love him to death, but that would just have been creepy!

Dave, we don't need facts to back our thoughts, or whatever. Its called having morals and knowing right from wrong. As adults, we should know right from wrong, but its obvious that some don't. And when they cross the line where their desires and wants are forced upon a child, well they are wrong. Plain and simple. A grown teacher, whether they be male or female, and a 14 year old, whether they be male or female, is wrong. The laws are established for many reasons, but one of them being so we don't have free for alls. If we allow this to continue it won't end good. I can understand that a child may develope a crush on a teacher, which is normal. But its one of the teacher's jobs, as an adult, to know not to cross the line. Well, unless they were a pedophile in the first place and then to them (and any pedophile sympathisers) its totally ok.

Also to german. When you wrote "women carrying on the myth of being kids' protectors while fucking some junior high "lover"" I really hope you don't mean all women. Because I can say for a fact that the only time I "fucked" someone in junior high was when I myself was in junior high.

And I can also call someone like this, you know a pedophile, sick, whacko, and whatever, not only because they are, but because I am not a pedophile. I would never look at a child and think "man, I wanna get with him!" Cause its not normal!

Dave,
My RAMBLINGS?! Are you fucking crazy?! After everything Scott said about his pedophile ways you attack me for rambling that pedophelia is wrong?! You have got your priorities COMPLETELY fucked up, and you now have joined the same group as Subspace and Scott, Probably the same guy, all three of you. FUCKING SICK PEDOPHILE, EVIL FUCKING LOSERS!
German,
I'm a guilty dog barking the loudest?! What the fuck does that even mean? I am a dog barking the loudest because it pisses me off there are SICK FUCKS like these guys (SCOTT, SUBSPACE, DAVE) that are out there trying to justify being a pedophile!!! And how can you say people do the same thing?! Think about sex with children are you fucking crazy?!!!! You, Scott, Subspace, and Dave all need to get together, sick perverted pedophile fucks! You are defending these guys who are trying to justify having pedophile desires!!! AM I THE ONLY SANE PERSON HERE THAT THINKS THIS IS FUCKED UP AND WRONG?!!!!

Ok, Scott, Subspace, Dave, and German, if you all feel so secure in your beliefs, and want to go after me for saying pedophiles are sick evil worthless losers, then post your contact information on here for all to see. Post your contact information on here so I can find you. If you think your method of thinking is so sane, PLEASE tell us where and who you really are. PLEASE. Then I can come visit you and show you some "substance" to my arguments! You are SO SURE your sick mind is normal what's the harm in letting us know where you are.

SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE

These are your labels, wear them so we all can recognize you evil sick monsterous losers.

Oh and "Pedophile Sympathiser" Dave,
I wasn't name calling or labeling, I was simply stating, using the information "Child Predator/Pedophile" Scott and "Child Predator/Pedophile" Subspace gave me, EXACTLY what they are. Is it name calling saying a woman is a woman, or a man is a man? No, just stating facts right? Well here are my findings based on the FACTS that the four of you sicko losers have given:
SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE

Burn in hell gentlemen, burn in hell.

1) In my state, 16 is automatically statutory rape, BUT with parental consent, you can get married at 16, so somehow that piece of paper turns rape into consentual sex.

2) I have a friend, 39, who is married to a 24 year old; by some of the commenter's standards that's immoral.

3) Why in the fuk would anyone who walked in on two hot naked women report them?

4) I am very jealous that there were no hot cougar teachers in the 80s.

@ Marie Heck

As stated previously I do not agree with Scott's opinions. At this time I do not wish to share my own, nor are my opinions that important. But before you accuse someone of being a pedophile (which is a very serious accusation) you might want to try to understand why it is they say something, not impose your views over top of his.

Try for example this abstract from the Journal, "American Academy of Pediatrics". This article, written by some of the foremost experts in the field of Pediatrics, discusses Infantile Masturbation.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/6/1427

If you are worried about clicking on the link, simply go to Google and search 'fetal masturbation science articles.' It's the first of many results.

Now, am I a pedophile for referencing this article? Do I get off on this kind of shit? Of course not. Am I on some kind of secret government watch list for looking at that article? Probably. But I do value the importance of understanding both sides of an argument before making a judgment? Sure do. It never hurts to take the time to learn something new.

"Dave, we don't need facts to back our thoughts, or whatever. Its called having morals and knowing right from wrong. As adults, we should know right from wrong, but its obvious that some don't."

Does this imply that I lack morals? And why don't we need facts? Is it more important to be loud than right? In all honestly, what are you trying to say/imply here? Do I have to give up logic in order to be moral human being?

What if instead of name-calling, we took the time to examine the history and evolution of "age of consent" laws, both in and outside of the United States. How did these laws come about? Why are they in place? Are these reasons still applicable in today’s society? If not, how should they be changed to reflect today’s changing culture?

There are obviously many charged, motivated individuals on this board. Let's stop hating each other, and start working towards a solution.

If you would like to contact me directly and talk about this Ryan I would be happy to speak with you. I will be at work today from 4:30 PM until 1:00 AM EST, and I would appreciate you holding off on contacting me during that time. But my e-mail address is djaveryjr@gmail.com. And if you feel the need to contact me by phone I will be happy to share that with you upon receiving an e-mail.

I am not opposed to anyone contacting me, and please feel free to. I would be happy to discuss anything you may have questions about. (And to the admins, I apologize if posting personal contact information is against the site rules; I was unable to locate them before making this post.)

Dave,
Yes they discuss what they believe to be infantile masterbation, but for ANYONE To think infants are actually masterbating as if they know what they're doing is just ignorant.
You keep bringing up that you are stating "facts" and that morals shouldn't play a role? that is a statement a PEDOPHILE would make to try and justify their attraction to a little girl. Just because a human body is capable of having a baby does NOT make it ok to act on or even have thoughts of any kind of sexual acts with a child! I don't care what you have to say, sexual thoughts and desires of kids IS NOT NORMAL!!!
I keep seeing this argument too, a 16 year old kid and 19 year old boyfriend, I don't see anything wrong with that they're both in the same age group c'mon people, is this so hard?! Any reasonable and prudent person can clearly see what's right and what's wrong, and what I stated earlier still stands:
SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE

Oh and Dave, I have no need for your email address, what you may not realize is I have absolutely nothing to discuss with someone who supports the logic of a pedophile, you are obviously suffering from some sort of mental illness as well. As long and you try to give a pedophile justification for the things they do or the way they think, your words will fall on my deaf ears. Give your address, so we can notify your community to keep their kids away from you. Scott on the other hand I just want to know where he lives so I could pay him a visit, that guy is clearly a pedophile.

SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE

Avery, I don't recall anyone saying that an adult of 24 couldn't marry whomever they chose. My opinion is that these people have been arguing over age of consent and the appropriate behavior between a child and an adult. Someone at the age of 24 is well over the age of legal consent. Now, if you say that they married when the 24 year old was 16 and the other was 31, then yeah, I think people would consider that immoral. At 16 and 31 (taking morals out of the picture), what on earth would the two have in common? As far as the two teachers making out, can you at least agree that they should have chosen a different make out spot? Oh, and I'm pretty sure there were cougars in the 80's. You may not have met any, but they were out there.

I guess I am going to have to dumb this down a bit so you can understand what I am saying...

I DO NOT SUPPORT PEDOPHILIA.

I had a friend in high school who was raped by one of our history teachers. He is serving 7 years in a state prison for 4 counts of statutory rape and 2 counts of endangering a minor. He took advantage of her and I hope he rots in hell. What he did was despicable.

But Ryan, honestly? Are you bothering to think about what you say before your say it? I have not once stated that morals shouldn't play a role in our decision making process. Are you even bothering to read these postings? Did you read the scientific article? Do you read in general? Logic is logic. It has nothing to do with who is saying it, or what is being said.

I have not once sided with the arguments being made by Scott, or anyone else on this site. But just for fun let’s take a look at your most recent messages point-by-point and see what is really going on here:

Post One

“Yes they discuss what they believe to be infantile masterbation, but for ANYONE To think infants are actually masterbating as if they know what they're doing is just ignorant.”

Not a single person has suggested or implied that infantile masturbation is cognoscente or voluntary. It was simply brought up as a reference to a grander point, a point that was completely lost on you.

“You keep bringing up that you are stating "facts" and that morals shouldn't play a role? that is a statement a PEDOPHILE would make to try and justify their attraction to a little girl.”

Care to back that statement up? Exactly how do you define pedophile? And how many of them do you know? Have you been visiting with some registered sex offenders in your free time and talking with them about the logic behind raping a child? As stated previously I have not once mentioned that morals are unimportant. But removing logic from morals is. Are you familiar with the term ethics? Have you ever taken an ethics course (or a philosophy course for that matter) in your life? I’ll share a secret with you, ethics is justified by logic (all-be-it abstract logic in many cases).

“Just because a human body is capable of having a baby does NOT make it ok to act on or even have thoughts of any kind of sexual acts with a child! I don't care what you have to say, sexual thoughts and desires of kids”

Agreed.

“ IS NOT NORMAL!!!”

Anything to back this up? No one cares about your opinions, bring some facts to the table.

“I keep seeing this argument too, a 16 year old kid and 19 year old boyfriend, I don't see anything wrong with that they're both in the same age group c'mon people, is this so hard?! Any reasonable and prudent person can clearly see what's right and what's wrong,”

So where would you draw the line? What constitutes as an age group? How do we in good conscience make these laws to protect those who deserve to be protected without endangering the freedoms of those who are doing nothing wrong? PLEASE READ THIS SENTENCE CAREFULLY. I AM NOT IMPLYING A PEDOPHILE DOES NOTHING WRONG. BUT AN 18 HAVING RELATIONS WITH A 16 YEAR OLD IS ILLEAG IN SOME PLACES. How do we defend those who are not committing wrong, but are still subject to incredibly strict laws?

“and what I stated earlier still stands:
SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE”

Not worth my time to defend. I have better things to do.

And then post number two…

“Oh and Dave, I have no need for your email address, what you may not realize is I have absolutely nothing to discuss with someone who supports the logic of a pedophile”

Like I care.

“you are obviously suffering from some sort of mental illness as well.”

And I am sure you are a trained psychologist. I would love to know in your professional opinion what that mental illness is.

The patient suffers for an overwhelming desire to seek truth and substance in a debate. He must be mentally ill.

“As long and you try to give a pedophile justification for the things they do or the way they think, your words will fall on my deaf ears.”

I would love to see this justification I have provided. Please quote me so I can understand my own words better.

“Give your address, so we can notify your community to keep their kids away from you.”

I gave you my e-mail. When I feel comfortable that you won’t burn down my house, I’ll be happy to share that information with you. Until then keep rambling on…

“Scott on the other hand I just want to know where he lives so I could pay him a visit, that guy is clearly a pedophile.”

No idea. But I doubt he would give his address to a lunatic like you.

“SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (or/and) PEDOPHILE”

Still not worth my time.

“I keep seeing this argument too, a 16 year old kid and 19 year old boyfriend, I don't see anything wrong with that they're both in the same age group c'mon people, is this so hard?! Any reasonable and prudent person can clearly see what's right and what's wrong,”

Ok that totally should not be allowed! The maturity of a 16 year old is VERY different from the maturity of a 19 year old. Granted it's only 3 years but there is A LOT that changes in 3 years for a teenager mentally.

Ace, not for all teenagers. When I was 16, I was dating a 19 year-old and he was very immature. Hell, he still is. I believe that most people I have ever met had more sense than he did at any age.

Im 20 years old, and my boyfriend is 17.
I don't agree that a 30 something year old teacher should be acting in a sexual way with a 14 year old, however i don't agree when some of you are saying its wrong for a younger 20 year old to be attracted to teens.

Ace,
Like I said any reasonable and/or prudent person can clearly see what's right and wrong. You obviously are not reasonable or prudent, but that's just my opinion. Use some common sense people.

Ace,
Like I said any reasonable and/or prudent person can clearly see what's right and wrong. You obviously are not reasonable or prudent, but that's just my opinion. Use some common sense people.
Ace you must be a teenager yourself, for you to say that between the ages of 16 and 19 A LOT changes mentally......ummmmmm like what? Deciding what college classes to take? Whether or not to join the military? I'm sorry I'm not seeing it. Help me see your point of view, what are the drastic changes someone makes from 16 to 19? I'm not picking on you I'm seriously asking.

Just out of curiousity, for a teenager, what changes "A LOT" from the ages 16-19? Besides What college to go to, who to take to prom, or whether or not to join the military? I'm being 100% serious, I'm trying to wrap my head around the HUGE difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old.

Ryan, are you saying its okay for a 16 and 19 year old to be together? Just wondering. You've been very vocal with youre opinions and it seems like ace was one agreeing with you? Older should not be with younger.
I find this year "old-aged"
many ppl who are dating are older and younger then each other.
Like i said earlier. Im 20, my bf is 17 and we are great together. I don't see anything wrong with being with someone a BIT younger.
There is a line though. I mean i would never date a 14 year old. idk just what i think.

Yeah I don't see anything wrong with a 19 year old dating a 16 year old. Ace was disagreeing with me, the first part of his/her comment was a copied and pasted portion from one of my postings. I agree with you nothing is wrong with a bit of a difference in age like you and your b/f or a 19 and 16 year old, I'm just saying common sense should apply here. Hell when I was 17 and a senior I started messing around with a 21 year old girl, we didn't actually start dating or anything but it wasn't too big of an age difference.

As someone who suffered rape as a child , I can tell you this much, anyone who wants to have sex with my 14 year old will never walk again moreover be capable of having sex again.

I completely agree with you. I mean even when i was 18 and went to a club for the first time, i was disgusted by men my fathers age trying to rub up against me. I read EVERY post on here. How some ppl can justify how molesting younger girls cause thats how it was done back then, you have to take into consideration that "back then" life expectancy was in the mid 30s. its a lot differnt then the now 80s. Molesting kids just cause they are getting "boobs, Booty's, and menstrating" is NOT ok. Ppl are sick. ha

FINALLY some people who have their heads on straight!
Thank you Brandi and Linda!

Brandi, since you read every post on here, tell me, am I WAY off in thinking those guys who are trying to justify having sexual thoughts about kids are complete scum?

Absolutely not.
Any person who can talk about a baby masturbating, or say that sexual acts with someone as young as 13,14, and 15 is okay and they are not that age themselves... complete scum bags.
I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion. but really?
no i wanted to vomit reading what scott said.
i just think Subspace needs some mental help period.

Subspace / Dave = same person. This is clear from your 'intellectual' ramblings.

Firstly, your theorising of childhood / sexuality is not based on what is in the child's best interests. You have presented a child in a one - dimensional way, as a sexual object who is there for the benefit of an adult, therefore making their personhood dehumanised and only seen through a sexual agenda, which even in your own twisted logic, you must see as being wrong.

You have clearly opposed the need for children to be protected from the adult world ie sexualisation for their own good, so that they can experience themselves and who they are as individuals first, before becoming aware of themselves as adults. Children need their innocence so that they can be free to be themselves and to learn about the world around them. I would like you to look into the damage that sexual abuse does to children and to rethink your principles. Your thinking is very very flawed and is deluded.

Your argument is completely flawed because it does not take into account the health of the child or what is needed for children to be able to grow into healthy individuals.

Apart from that,you seem so sure of yourslef, that i'm sure nobody elses opinions matter to you and I suggest you are probably suffereing from a narcissistoc personality disorder, where you see people as being there to use for your own interests.

Your rantings are the sickest thing I have ever read. God help the children who ever come into contact with you, and god help you when you get your own karma.

Eleanor,
God bless ya!!!
That is my exact view, however I chose a different way to express myself hahaha, but I just can't help it, when I hear people go on the way these guys have I resort to the way I've been taught, and that's destroying what is evil so good can fourish, and these guys are evil, plain and simple. I see predators like those as individuals waging war on innocent children, well being a Marine I am a Dog of War, and it just gets my blood boiling to know creeps like this are out there and trying to justify themselves to everyone.
WARNING for all of you pedophiles or pedophile sympathisers, there are a lot more people like me out there and one day you'll slip up and when you do I'll be there.

Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.

Dave, I'm sorry, was I supposed to read all of that trash you wrote? After reading your posting supporting Scott and Subspace nothing else you have to say matters to me. You are a sick and twisted human being. Don't be mad because we found out what kind of person you are.

SCOTT - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOPHILE
SUBSPACE - CHILD PREDATOR/PEDOHPILE
DAVE - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (and/or) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE
GERMAN - PEDOPHILE SYMPATHISER (and/or) POSSIBLE PEDOPHILE

Ladies and gentlemen be aware of these guys and the venom they post.

Dave, in regards to your examples, no I don't personally have problem with the 16 year old dating a 19 year old, and less so 18 and 16. However, every male knows, and should know the age of consent laws in his state. Therefore, if I'm 18 and start courting a 16 year old girl, I am going to make sure I meet her parents, stay on their good side i.e. not hurt their daughter or take advantage of her, and in all honesty, if I have to wait a year to have sex with her to keep them from reporting me for statutory rape, sobeit. If they are highly religious people and for them it is a huge big deal for a teenager to have premarital sex, if I care about that girl, I should have the decency to wait.

If I can't wait or our impulses get the best of us, ideally it is consensual, so a judge can take that into consideration if need be, and I must be prepared to take the consequences of my adult actions/responsibilities. Or, I should be visiting my senator with my girlfriend in tow to have the laws ammended, because it is obviously an issue very close to my heart that I should be passionate about contributing to. If you can't man up to be the one lobbying for changes to laws that effect you every day, you don't have much right to complain about them, do you?

"Ideally" was a poor word choice on my part. Of course, it HAS to be consenual for it to be legal/ethical, but moreso, she should very firmly express and be willing to express to a judge that it is consensual. I certainly never dated girls I would have thought were flaky enough to make up rape stories or be coerced by their parents into ruining my life, if not. When things like that go to trial, it is up to the prosecutor to show that the boys intentions were manipulative, and the defense will often end up trying to show where the girl's lifestyle was already sexual and even promiscuous. It probably behooves parents not to fight this battle over 16 year olds to avoid this type of scrutinity on their daughter, who hopefully is by then reaching a point where she can make decisions about her own body which could potentially affect the rest of her life. She also could carry a baby to term, and barely, BARELY support herself and newborn with either the family's assistance or WELFARE. So, the public interest and avoiding teen pregnancy is another great reason to not trust children who can be impulsive and less insightful about the consequences of their actions.

Now, personally, I think that battle over statutory rape becomes increasingly relevant each year younger the girl is. Regarding the age of 14, I believe the 19 year old should have left her alone, or again, be prepared to face the consequences, since I know of very few places at this point that see that age as one of legal ability to consent.

Brandi made a lot of sense in her post. I dated women who were as young as 18 for probably too many years of my 20s, and even early 30s, I won't deny it. It causes mixed feelings, but it is totally legal, and they were in positions to support themselves or already very sexually experienced with other men of wide age ranges. I never felt any signficant temptation to cross that line of flirting with a 17 year old.

In fact, when I was 27 or 28, a very beautiful Brazilian girl who had moved to he U.S. as a young girl bought a guitar from me and...let's just say I never had such a clear impression from a young woman that she was making herself available to me. The perspective was a little skewed by the fact that she acted VERY mature for her age, and was a tad taller than me. But...to me, it was still clear that she was very young. She ended up taking guitar lessons and having a relationship with the guitar teacher at our store. It was depressing/hard for me to listen to his stories of taking her virginity, especially given how unethical it was for another guy a year older than me to take advantage of his teacher-student relationship, and being invited to jetski by her parents at their vacation home. I thought it even less ethical in his case, because he was a total player and giving her lessons meant her parents allowing him to be behind closed doors with her in the lesson rooms without windows. But I didn't regret my decision to walk away from the situation myself.

J,
it's very unfortunate for a lot of older guys dating young girls. I know a couple of ppl who have had a rough break up and BAM the girl says they raped her.
That's one downside to dating someone younger then 18. I mean i really don't have to worry about that cause i'm a girl dating a younger guy and the likely-hood of a court believing a raped my younger bf would probably not see through. However, the problem is not wheather its ok for a 19 year old to date a 16 year old. Its if a 30 something year old TEACHER should be able to have sexual contact with a student of the age 14. Many lines were crossed.

Ok. To say little changes in 3 years of a teenagers life is totally ridiculous. Granted there are exceptions to the rule (immature 19 year olds and mature 16 year olds) but to completely dismiss that is an incredibly ignorant response. Also "choosing colleges" is not a mental sine of maturity and not what I was saying at all. In general most 16 year olds don't have a lot of the same common sence a 19 year old is going to have. I say this based on my own experiences, and I also have a younger sister who is around that age. There is a lot of ignorance and feeling "untouchable" (no pun intended)when your 16. Most 16 year olds think they are more mature then they are, and because of that do things they aren't necessarily ready to do. Now I'm not saying sex for a 16 year old is a big "no no" I'm just saying there is a fairly drastic maturity difference in the age gap. Honestly 20 and 17 makes more sense(in response to a previous post. The brain is still going through a great deal of development during your teen years, and thats something science has told us over and over. Thats why its so frowned upon for teens to drink or do drugs, not because they wont have fun with it, but because it effects the development of the brain. I'm not saying sex will as well, just trying to prove the point that a lot is going on in a teenagers life, and being an adult most people forget that. 16 is pretty frickin young.

That's exactly right, that age crosses the line legally and morally. After all, laws are supposed to be based on universally accepted morals. If you are a "libertine" about sex, and believe it is ritht for a guy no longer a teenager himself to pursue a 14 year old, you are in the minority, and therefore, subject to our agreed-upon laws.

In my experience, I had dated an 18 year old when I was about 31, I think, but we only ever made out in my car or while dropping her off, clothes were always on, we were always in public. I found out she sort of had a boyfriend, but young people that age often tha way, another sign of their immaturity. I dated a girl who was 19 but turned 20 the same year while I was with her. Those were even examples where I knew it was somewhat immature of me to be considering them viable as relationships, but they were very much assertive towards me. I couldn't say I really pusued them. I met their parents and the one who was 18, I worked with her and her aunt.

J, hot brazilian girl, nice haha. Idk i get judged a lot for dating a 17 year old. I mean its only a 2.5 year differece. But ppl dont see that. I mean when we are both in our 20's it won't matter but now, it a huge deal.
It bothers me a lot. but i can see the line and don't think im crossing it. Maybe if i were in my mid-20's and he 17 a little different. But i litterally just turned 20.
Idk i just hate being judged.

Yes, your situation, Brandi, I think most people would agree is the acceptable exception where age-of-consent may vary from state to state. It's really under 17, and over 21 where I start to have problems with it. Again, that concern increases more each year in both directions. That goes for men and women. It starts to appear more and more to be an age fetish out of those 3 year ranges, and under 17. It starts to become too great a dichotomy between abilities to make informed decisions, where you now have the adult actually MANIPULATING the child. Once a teenager is capable of moving out of their parents' house and working full-time to support themselves, that starts to change.

Regardless, though, 23 or 33 or 63 with a 14 year old, when that 14 year old, when you also happen to be an authority figure to that child, it gets beyond the point of just splitting hairs about age of consen. It should remain a crime if the teacher is 21 and graduated early enough to be teaching a 17 year old. That could actually happen, and itt's just patently wrong for the adult to betray the ethics of the teaching profession.

J, i completely agree.
An authority figure having sexual contact with a sutdent, the age does not matter.
It's the principle behind the fact.
I find the whole thing creepy.
I can't understand why the 14 year old didn't say anything before the hickey incident.
I wonder if she may have been being threatened?
or maybe she had a thing for the teach? its still wrong either way. Just curious.

Ace, i understand what you're saying. I really think that it's all based on the person. I'm not saying i agree with 19 and 16, there is a lot of physical growth that goes on within that time period. However, the maturity level is based entirely on the individual.

Yes, I do think that in some of these cases, especially boys with adult women, the boys pursue the adult. But it is up to the adult to rise above their impulses. The fact that they are so not in control of their sexual impulses that they would allow it to jeopardize their very livlihood, their career they paid thousands of dollars of college to certify them for, shows that they chose the wrong profession and are not right in the head, possibly chose teaching either subconsciously or deliberately as a result of their fetish for children.

I suspect that in most cases, they were sexually abused at the very same age they are preying on. That's why I think this is a predator situation. At any point a teacher could rat a kid out to their parents or principle, who could either sit them down and try to get them to observe more proper boundaries with adults, or get them counseling for being so sexualized that they would be trying to acheive a totally inappropriate relationship vs. one with another high school student.

J, sexual abuse is a bitch. It screws ppl up for the rest of their lives.
Thats one thing that hurts me the most, these people don't understand that what they are doing to these young people will mess them up, and most likely give them sexual fetishes or become a sex offender themselves.
Sex Abuse is a complete and utter mind fu**.
I think that's honestly the worse crime someone can commit to another

Subspace:
Totally fucked up! But not only that....everything your saying makes no logical sense. At one point you talk about being bullied by girls at the community college you went to.....but then later....when trying to argue your point of being educated, brag about going to a University...Those are not the same thing FYI. Also...it is COMPLETELY different for a 14 year old and another 14 year old to "experiment" with each other then for someone in there 30's to get involved. You're totally over looking the fact that 14 year olds, though young and ignorant....STILL HAVE BRAINS. A 14 year olds biggest concern generally isn't sex...but you make it sound like thats the case. As for most of the other stuff you said....I'm not going to get into it, because I'm honestly a little speechless that you can convince yourself that it's ok...but then hide behind your "mental disabilities" that in other comments (according to you) aren't an issue... Stop contradicting yourself...and please for the sake of the children....up your meds

Well arguing my opinion with all of you helped pass the time this week thank you. And I'll be back haha!
Cheers!

Ace, Brani, J, Eleanor, marie heck, and all of you I forgot that have your heads in the right direction and your hearts in the right place keep up the good fight!

@ Elanora

Please don't imply that I am someone I am not. If you want proof that I am a separate person from Subspace (something I obviously cannot provide) contact the site admins and see if they will waste their time verifying our IP addresses and our e-mails.

I’m not even sure what to say. I don’t know if you bothered to read what I said, but I would love for you to explain a few of the following to me.

You say I don’t value others opinions, but I do. Please enlighten me to yours:

What have I said that would lead you to believe that I view children as one-dimensional sexual objects?

Where have I stated that I am in opposition to children being protected by the adult world?

What arguments am I making against the health and welfare of a child?

I’ll give you the “sure of yourself”, and forgive you for calling me a narcissist, but how exactly am I using people for my own interests? (Unless you count trying to educate the people on this discussion board the proper from of debate, because I do enjoy teaching.)

What exactly have I ranted about in my posts? What have been my gripes with the comments so far? Who have I attacked for what reasons?

I would appreciate any civility you can muster up in your response, as I am obviously and pedophile and not worthy of your time. I am just curious to know exactly how you came to such conclusions. And please, quote my ratings to show me the error of my ways. That way, you wouldn’t just beat me, you would beat me at my own game. (And as a side note, since I’m not subspace, quoting him would be a waste of time for both of us, so please refrain.)

@Ryan

So was I right? You didn’t read?

Here’s a challenge for you. If you’re such a righteous and mighty person, defend yourself. Look through some of the points I made. Once you’ve done that, take some time to write out a well formed response that states more than “Your opinions don’t count because you sympathize with pedophiles,” (which I don’t).

Then come back and post it. Prove me wrong. I beg you! Have the balls to back up what you’re saying with some facts. You keep forgetting that I am on your side. I know the reasons why you say the things you do; the difference is I have the facts to back them up.

Why, you might ask, should I do this? Because if you can be civil and use reason and logic to settle this dispute (and hopefully other disputes you encounter later in life), there won’t be any further need for my presence, at which time you can go back to bashing me all you’d like.

@J

I agree with much of what you’ve said. And I appreciate that you have take the time to phrase your views in this light. I am 22, soon to be 23. I met my girlfriend when I was 20 and she was 17. Where we are from the age of consent is 18, and even though her parents are incredibly liberal, and I know there would have been no situation, we chose to wait until she was of age. Was it a very difficult six months? You can bet your ass it was, but we respected the law and understand its purpose. We are still together at this time, and if things work out we will be engaged in the near future.

I would like to apologize for my comments early. I may have been overcritical and I very familiar with how passion can get the best of people. But it scares me that members of this discussion are so willing to label someone a pedophile just because they have different views. Calling someone a pedophile is a very serious accusation that I don’t think we are taking that to heart.

Also, I would be interested on your (and anyone’s) opinion of the following, as I think it is an important topic to breach and very much related to this discussion:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/indiana-middle-school-sexting-82949612.html

It’s a quick read so I won’t bother summarizing.

@Ryan

On a less argumentative and completely separate point, I missed earlier when you mentioned that you were a marine, and I wanted to take the time to thank you for your service.

It's like that episode of southpark when all the kids called teh police and accused every adult in town of molesting them.

Authorities are too trusting of teenagers these days. Parents are too. I bet that girl either got that hickey from someone her own age or was a happily willing participant with the teacher.

I mean come on, the teacher kinda little frisky? So what were you doing before then that wasn't so frisky?

may the parents carry out the sentence with a German Mauser?

hey,those teachers look pretty good.
i would bang them.

horny teachers ha
they don't get enough

Dave,

What Scott said that I had a huge problem with was what I wrote in an earlier post. The whole thing about babies gettin erections, lubricating, experiencing orgasms, having erotic feelings. Then he says we will feel 1000 times better about not having to live with the guilt and frustration. Now, step away from all the facts that you know, and think about that. Who would even say that? Who would even think that's right? I took from that that we would feel 1000 times better if we all just went out and molested children cause its ok and "normal". So if I ever have a son, and I'm sick enough to think like Scott, and I'm changing his diaper and he gets an erection, and keep in mind I'm thinking like Scott and that's it ok, I should conclude that he is sexual aroused and I should act on his erection? I'm not saying your a pedophile, I don't know you. But from personal experience and being in "group therapy" with others who had been molested, that is the exact same thing that the molesters would tell us. That's its normal. That's its ok. That by somehow making us think that since our bodies were "responding" the way they were, that we wanted that as well. One of the girls went into detail about her abuse. She had been abused by her uncle from the time she was 5 months old til she was about 12. The uncle had lived with them and would watch her while her parents were at work or the store. This sick bastard video taped EVERYTHING he did to her, and word for word he said pretty much the exact same thing. That "science" has proven that babies have sexual desires. That because she was "wet" (his sick ass terms, not mine) she wanted it. A 5 month old baby and she wanted him to do what he did. This poor girl not only had to live with being molested at such an early age, and being to afraid to say anything because he had threatened her life, but for some unknown reason, all the tapes were played in the trial. Don't ask me why, I don't really remember everything from the trial. Maybe so the prosecution could prove even more that he was a sick bastard, I don't know. He not only did this to her, but her little sister and a couple of other cousins. Needless to say, he got a big sentence. Actually, last I heard, I think he either got beaten up in prison or was killed, I can't remember. So don't sit there and tell me I need to get my "facts" straight. I lived through it and I know plenty of others who did too. And exactly what facts do we need to get straight? I would really like to know that. The majority of the people I know that have been abused were told that it was ok, because their "bodies" said it was ok, and that's a fact. Anyone who thinks its ok to engage in sexual relations with a child, no matter what their age, is sick and needs to be examined and/or locked up.

Brandi,

I don't see anything wrong with your situation. If you both love eachother and know what your doing is ok and right, don't ever let anyone tell you anything different and don't feel bad. My husband is 9 years and 8 months older than I am. Even though I'm 25 almost 26 and he just turned 35, some people still have issues with this. Some of our friends (well ex-friends now) have tried to make us feel bad because when I was 15 he was about 25. To me, that's a pretty stupid comment to make because we didn't know eachother then and its not like we would have been romanticaly involved even if we did know eachother! Like I said in an above post, I love him to death but I wouldn't have given him the time of day back then!

Ryan,

While I do feel some of your posts get a little out of hand and a bit emotional, I agree with you on this one. And I would personally like to thank you for all you have done in your years in the Marines. I'm not a Marine (although I would have loved to join the military) but I have the same attitude when it comes to molesters. Yes, I know the majority have been abused in their pasts, but they are still sick and need help. If they were abused themselves, they should know what its like and what it does to the child. If anyone ever tries to touch my daughter, I couldn't promise you I would be able to control myself.

Ryan,
I have seen a completely different side of you. You are completely right about this sob, there I said it. I just read this story on 2/5/10, I am in shock with what the scum posted. He is telling the world he has and approves of having sex with babies and children. OMG, what makes me sick is there is nothing any of us can do to stop him. What a sicko, he's proud of what he is. What comes around goes around. He will get his 10 times over." God please don't let him get a hold of any children."

Child molestors/killers need to be Taken out back and executed!!!! We are talking about the weakest most innocent beings and it's our job to protect them!!! God help anyone that look at my kids wrong let alone touch or do something harmful to them!! My husband would hunt you down like an animal and you would wish you were dead!! You can't fix someone who's off like that, it's time this country starts handing out real justice then maybe we would have far less of those sickos!!! You molest/kill a child you get torchered and killed in the worst most excrutiating way!!! I bet that would deter those sick fucks!!! At least the victims would get real justice!!! Scum have no rights!!!!

@marie heck

I agree that what Scott brought up was entity unnecessary to prove the point he was trying to make. Was it appropriate? Probably not. It has obviously triggered quite an outcry with this discussion.

Do I think Scott is a pedophile? Absolutely not. Personally, and this is just straight, unjustified opinion, I believe he made the points he did to try and make people think about the other side of the coin. I know that's why I personally have been so vigilant with my own postings. (Also, in an attempt to keep this as pure a discussion as possible I try and keep my opinions to myself). With such a sensitive subject as rape, it is hard to separate ourselves from our bias. And I understand that, but in order to address the issues at hand (the sexual molestation of a young girl by a teacher) we have to put emotion aside to truly understand what and why this is happening.

I'd like to try and come full circle here for a moment.

I think we can all agree that there has been a massive influx of student-teacher relations over the past, oh let's say, 10 years. I think it is important to ask why has such a change occurred? What has sparked this kind of behavior, and how can it be fixed/monitored/adverted/reduced/(fill in your own solution)? That is why we're all here isn't it, to find a solution to this? And Scott's and Subspace's opinions are just as valid, and should be taken into consideration just as much as Ryan's or your own, as well as everyone else on here. But the only way we can address and solve issues like this, is to keep an open mind, peruse the facts, and understand the goal at hand.

On a completely separate note, I know I have posted a lot of "stuff" in the past day and a half, and I would like to make one more recommendation for those of you interested in expanding their knowledge on this topic.

"How I Learned to Drive" is a semi-autobiographical play written by the very talented playwright Paula Vogel. It is a phenomenal, and powerful play following the struggles of Li'l Bit. Since I cannot do this play justice by giving you a brief summary, I will simply quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_I_Learned_to_Drive):

"The story follows the strained, sexual relationship between Li'l Bit and her aunt's husband, Uncle Peck, from her adolescence through her teenage years into college and beyond. Using the metaphor of driving and the issues of pedophilia, incest, and misogyny, the play explores the ideas of control and manipulation."

Dave,

Here's an idea for you. Stop trying to have a debate around this issue and to 'explore arguments' around why or why not adults choose to partake in a sexual relationship with children. Just accept that it is wrong.

End of story.

The more you want to push the boundaries, explore plays, read papers about it, consider alternatives, is only a masquerade for your opinion that you just can't understand what it wrong about it.

And really, that says more about you, than it does about what has happened in this article, where a teacher in a position of responsibility has taken advantage of a child who needs protecting from sexual predators.

And yes, your constant quoting of justification for child abuse is in my opinion nithing but ramblings.

I will not take your questions and ansewr them, nor will I enter into a debate on an issue which comes down to ethics and has nothing to do with science with someone who is trying to look at a child in a scientific one-dimensional way, and yes as a sexual object for another's pleasure, which you have done since your first post. If you like quoting so much, perhaps you can read through your own posting and quote this for yourself and save the rest of the normal people on here a job.

You ask why has there been a surge in inappropriate sexual relationships with children. Why are you even asking this question? What disturbs me, and others on this board is that you want to use this question to normalise the process of sexual abuse of children. Again Dave, it is not the people on here who are principled who are in the wrong, it is those on this board such as yourself who are wanting to change the principle that child abuse is wrong.

Why are you even questionning it?

Scott, you wrote earlier:

'However, in countries where sex is viewed as a natural and rewarding part of life ... beginning in childhood if not birth itself ... between any people who are nice to each other, whether they are related, friends, or teacher/student, guess what? Rape, assault against women/kids, porn, sexual diseases, etc. are virtually unheard of! Wow, imagine that.'

Which countries therefore endorse and legalise child abuse? I honestly cannot believe you have written this ststement.

@Eleanor

Have I once said that this isn't wrong? No I don't think I have. The reason I ask you to quote me is because I am sick and tired of you putting words into other people’s mouths. I DON’T WANT TO CHANGE THE PRINCIPLES OF SEXUAL ABUSE; I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY MORE OF IT IS HAPPENEING SO WE CAN HELP THOSE INVLOVED AND PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING FURTHER.

But if you want to sit idly by, and wait for some 9th grade history teacher to rape your child, fine. That is your chose. You can pretend that your emotions will protect your children as they grow up.

However, if you want to engage in constructive dialogue, stop pointing fingers and name calling, because you’re just ruining it for those who are willing to spout more than just emotional garbage.

Life is about pushing boundaries, exploring the unknown, and understanding the complex and strange. And just because you have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean your opinion is right. Do I have to make a list for you of all the things we wouldn’t have today if everyone just accepted that what they were doing is “just wrong?” Now don’t take this as I SUPPORT RAPE, I don’t. But I do support understanding why people rape other people, because if we can understand that, we can work towards a solution to prevent it in our schools.

Why do I ask questions? I think it’s a pretty easy answer. Have you ever asked a question in your life? Could it possibly be because you wanted an answer? Excluding rhetorical questions, I’m pretty sure that’s the only reason you ask a question: for an answer. I’m not even asking you to debate why rape is wrong. I’m pretty sure everyone on this board can answer that for themselves. I’m asking you to logically explain to me why you say the things you do. And again, I’m not asking you to justify being against rape, I want you to justify your horrible slandering of my non-existent opinions.

So please, have some dignity and try to use some reason. Your emotions are not helping to protect the future rape victims of the American school system.

I'm a Swedish teacher in Great Britain (who followed this link from a newspaper here in the U.K.), and the problem of adult-child abuse is something that 'everyone' is very concerned about on this side of the Pond in both Sweden and the GB. I have little to say, but if I may sum it up like this: adults may be biologically predisposed to fancy teenagers as good reproducers due to our so-called lizard brains once serving us so well. However, we as adults have the capacity to foresee the youngsters' future emotional agony that will appear and haunt them once their crush has ended. That is especially true if they fall in a short spell of love with an authority figure. Personally, I agree with our law on this side: Sexual consent is allowed at the age of 16 - unless you have a relationship of power. If so, the younger partner must be at least 18 and the older partner (i.e. the teacher, lecturer, or professor) should report the relationship to their line-manager with the idea that the student gets a new tutor. Life is not watertight and camaraderie may prevail, but the student would at least have a new tutor. But all this said; wherein lies the difficulty in exercising self-restraint as an adult?

Wow, good comments! Some meaningful stuff here. I have to agree with Eleanor, Dave, about "exploring" plays, and not agreeing with your approach of lightheartedly refering to "pushing boundaries" to understand pedophilia and your objective to prevent it being mentioned in the same breath. We understand it enough to know that it is wrong, that pedophiles prey, and that they are less frequently rehabilitated than they reoffend. I do think if Linus is representing the Swiss view on it accuartely, that they sound like they have a balanced approach. The only thing I would add to that is teachers who cross that line need to be prosectuted to create a stronger detterent for the behavior. Unless we continue to hold pedophiles accountable and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law regardless of their status or relationships to the childen they take advantage of, the problem will just get worse.

@ J

Thanks, J! I'm not Swiss, but Swedish. You wouldn't believe how common that misunderstanding is. One country (mine) is part of Scandinavia and the other - Switzerland – is part of Central Europe. Naturally, that is entirely beside the point of this article. We in both nations have learned to live with it... :)

What I want to add to your comment is that teachers are ALWAYS prosecuted in both Sweden and the United Kingdom when it happens and is discovered. On our side, the whole thought of being an authority and a point of trust cannot be overstated - and the punishment for falling short of all our expectations is quite severe career-wise.

@Linus

"unless you have a relationship of power"

This is such a great point that we often neglect here in the states. There is a drastic difference between the 20 year old college student who is buying minors beer and hitting on them, from the 20 year old student teacher, who is not just in a position of dominance and power, but also has certain responsibilities.

The traditional family unit has begun to expand outside the home. Our society is often times raised and nurtured by our teachers. I know that I personally conceder many of my teachers and professors part of the family. It is easy for a student to “love” a teacher for the guidance and support they offer, and that love can be confusing. It is also just as easy for our teachers to take advantage of, or cloud lines of, that “love.”

@J

Are stricter punitive measures enough though to deter these types of relations? Teachers are required to complete a wide variety of training and education before they are allowed to teach our students. I know I personally don’t think any degree of punishment makes up for the life long damage that is caused. Holding them accountable is important, but identifying the dangers before they occur might in the long run be able to do greater good.

@Dave

Dave, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. Here in the U.K., the only 'father' that far too many of our inner-city students meet is (are) a male highschool teacher(s) (or 'secondary teachers'). Unfortunately, so many schools lack resources to do anything constructive with it. I have been to several schools where my immediate - and hopefully wrong - impression is that the students are going the same way as their peers in Detroit (from what I have read). Not well at all.

@ J

As a bit of a side note: It’s easy to say something is wrong, it’s much more difficult to say why something is wrong. It is even more difficult still to understand why someone else would do something that we perceive as wrong.

I am simply asking us to examine the situation from all sides so that we can have a greater understanding. Simple acceptance stifles the ability to more completely comprehend the situation.

@Linus

Out of sheer curiosity and I know this is completely off topic, (and I hope no one else takes this the wrong way or out of context.) What are your views on your country’s Pirate Party? I’ll admit that I have been completely enthralled following their progress over the past year or so. If you want to discuss this is a less public domain (and of course if you don’t mind discussing it) my e-mail address is in one of my previous post.

There is something terribly wrong with teachers. I don't understand why they are preying on young children/teenagers. Why are they trying to make girls who are not gay-gay? If the girls are gay, why don't they find a women their own age? These teachers a past the experimenting age. Those old bags need to get a grip and stop destroying these young children, and find employment in a female strip club. summarizing from a previous writer, "they lack the emotional maturity to have a relation with a woman their own age, they need teenager to make them feel complete."

These teachers are disgusting! Naked in the teacher's lounge during school hours, they have some serious problems. What is wrong with them. They are some real sickos!!!!

Dave,

You said "its easy to say something is wrong,much more difficult to say why something is wrong."

Ok, let's discuss the story. A grown teacher has some sort of sexual relations with a student. Not only a student, but a 14 year old student.

Why is this wrong? Several different things. #1. GROWN TEACHER. #2. Student. #3. 14 year old student. Now, what about that is hard to see where its not just wrong, but sick as well? We are not talking about a 20 year old teachers aide, we are talking about an adult teacher. Someone who is supossed to shape children's minds and change their lives. I'm sure she did change this girls life, but not in any way a parent would want.

Ok, so now let's look at pedophilia as a whole. Why is this wrong? First, if you really even have to ask that question, well that just baffles me. What isn't wrong with it is what you should be asking.

An adult, and sometimes even an older child, forces themself upon someone who cannot defend themselves. They do all sorts of degrading things to them. They make them live in fear every day. Not just of not really being able to talk to someone about it. But when is it gonna happen again. Not if, but when. They ruin their psyche. They ruin their lives.

The majority of child molesters were themselves molested. Am I saying that the circle should continue? Hell no. I agree that maybe by understanding why they do this, we may be able to help them. But I am also a very firm believer that 95% of child molesters cannot be fixed. Why do I say some of them? Because the person who molested me is someone very near and dear to me and I know that he hasn't done it again. It took a lot of therapy for the both of us, but I forgave him. Why did I do this? Was it for his sake? No. I knew that if I let this take over my life, I wouldn't have much of a life. I would be angry, I would turn to drugs and/or alcohol (as my molester did for the majority of his life. He was molested by 2 of his brothers and began using drugs and drinking at the age of 9. Until he went to rehab, he had never forgiven them and lived a life of hell). I would probably wind up sleeping with any male who crossed my path. I'm sure some of you will attack me for saying he hasn't done it again or even for forgiving him. But I know what I know.

Now, am I saying that all child molesters can change? No, the majority go on to reoffend several times, even going as far as to kill the child(ren) to hide the evidence. Should we try to understand why they do this? No, it will eventually drive us crazy. I used to ask why did he do this to me, even if it was just twice. It drove me crazy. Then, years later, he broke down and told me about his brothers when I had confronted him.

I'm not saying, lock them all up and throw away the key. But the ones who have done it to several children and have killed several children should be locked up for the rest of their lifes. And if they have been locked up and do it again? And do their time again and reoffend again? Why should we keep subjecting our children to this? Why should we let scum like that prey on the most innocent?

If you want to sit there and try to understand why they do it, that's your right. But me, being a mom, I don't care. If they had been molested themselves, then yes, I feel somewhat sorry for them. But, then again, I don't. They knew what it did to them, so why do it to someone else. But, if someone touches my daughter, they better be locked up.

Like I said, you wanna sit there and ask why someone does what they do? Go for it. Drive yourself crazy. Why does anyone do what they do? Sometimes people are just very messed up and there aren't any cures, no fixing them, no questions that can be answered.

Sorry Linus, dumb mistake on my part about Swiss vs. Swedish. Of course, I should have payed attention to where you said you were from.

@Marie

I want to begin by saying how sorry I am for the pain that you have been through. While I have never been the victim of molestation myself, a very close friend of mine has. She was raped by one of our mutual teachers. I know the trauma and the emotional/psychological suffering that it has caused her and I would not wish that on anyone. I do however wish you courage and strength in your continued struggle.

Sitting on the sidelines of my friends great ordeal however did give me a very unique perspective , as not only was this one of my closest friends that was raped, it was also one of my favorite teachers who raped her. I will try to keep this story as brief as possible, but there is a lot to it. It may also be a bit confusing to follow as I attempt to protect the identities of those involved.

The two of them had a seven month affair starting shortly after an extended class field trip to France which he had chaperoned and she had been on. At the time she was 16 and he was twice that. They had known each other since the beginning of high school, as she had him for 9th grade history. The two of them were both very happy people to begin with, neither was without their problems, but both were incredibly compassionate, caring individuals. Our group of friends, like many groups do in high school, had a teacher they would always hang out with after school, while waiting for sports or a rehearsal. I’m sure you can guess he was ours.

In the beginning, no one had any idea what was going on. The two of them would meet up, outside of school for “dates.” They would “happen to stumble” into each other at a coffee shop, at the movies, or out shopping at the mall. The first few months of their relationship (and I’m going to call it that, because that’s what it was) was the happiest I had ever seen her.

Eventually things escalated. He was having troubles at home with his wife of 3 years. He had finally found evidence of an affair he had suspected her of for almost a year, and in an odd twist, it was my friend who was there to comfort him through his difficult time. Eventually things became physical. They both “loved” each other, and at one point (I found out about all of this after the fact) they even contemplated running away together.

They started seeing each other more and more, and eventually people started to notice. Suspicions were made known to the administration and the administration informed the police. Once enough evidence was collected, he was arrested, on school property, in front of many of us just after class had recessed for the day. For me, at the time knowing nothing of the rape, watching his arrest was one of the scariest, most bewildering, moments of my life.

Of course, it took less than a day for the news to break of the whole affair (high school gossip at its finest). No one knew the details, or any of the facts, but everyone knew who was involved, and why our favorite teacher was sitting in a prison cell.

Do you want to know who the majority of the student body sided with? It wasn’t my friend. Petitions were signed by almost a 500 students, showing their support for our 9th grade history teacher. Even within our close-knit group of friends, most of them disowned the girl who was raped. Her best friend personally wrote a 5 page letter to the judge in our history teacher’s defense behind all of our backs. In the letter she offered to testify as a character witness for our teacher and against the girl who was rapped. I can remember hearing another teacher call her a “slut” behind closed doors.

But that’s not the weirdest part. The weirdest part is that while she hates all of the pain and suffering he caused, she was still in love with him. She didn’t want to see him go to prison any more than the rest of the student body. She just wanted to be near him so he could comfort her though these hard times.

I KNOW what he did was absolutely wrong, he took advantage of her, he raped a child. The problem is that I also KNOW that they also loved each other, and if you took their relationship out of its context, I would say it was a healthier and happier relationship than almost any other I’ve seen. The way she later described it was, “I never felt so right about something in my life.”

As a good friend I never left her side, and supported her through it all. She has done very well moving on from the whole ordeal, and he is sitting in prison, probably being raped himself.

So why did I bring this up? I guess my point is that when it comes to this type of issue, things are far too grey to just say, “it’s wrong.” They turned out to be both the best and worst things that ever happened to each other. I hate to say it, but I wouldn’t be suppressed if she tries to find him after he gets out in a few years.

Take from the story what you will… I give it simply to allow a deeper understanding of where I come from and why I push so hard for all of the facts and for a deeper understanding. I don’t think rape is right, but I do think the events that unfolded that year changed the lives of many individuals. I just don’t want to see people hurt like that ever again.

Dave,

But can you honestly say that this is what happens all the time in those situations? No, most of the time it is a teacher taking advantage of a child. I'm sorry about what happened to your friend, but that is exactly what your beloved teacher did. He took advantage of her. And if they were so in love, why didn't they just wait til she was 18 and/or graduated? There are a lot of people that do that and they are a lot closer in age. Love knows no boundaries, but when its between an adult and a child, it should.

And we aren't just talking about rape. We are talking about molestation, because that's what it is. As hard as it might be to hear this, your teacher was a molester. She was still technically a child so therefor he molested her. Whether you wanna see it that way or not. And you say he was way older. Do you think that this could have been his first time doing something like this? Its happened before. A teacher gets caught with a student or a student accuses the teacher of inappropiate behavior and the school will just let the teacher go and not report it. Its very rare now, but its does happen.

I can completely understand your friends story. It happened at my school. I had just moved to the school when it all started to come out, but that didn't change my opinion. There were those who defended the teacher and said things about the girl. And there were those who defended the girl and said things about the teacher. Whenever it was discussed in class, openly by teachers and students, and someone would ask my opinion, I would give it. It was wrong of both of them (the only difference at my school was the girl was 18) and both should be held accountable. Their little trist ended life long friendships. But while, yes the girl was 18, he was still a teacher. With more and more of these happening, they should know better.

The student from the story was 14. Can you imagine what that would be like? Yea sure, maybe the girl had a crush on the teacher. Not my cup of tea, but hey, to each their own. Its normal for a student to have a crush on a teacher. But when the grown-up crosses the line, no matter what the students feeling is, they should be punished. Plain and simple. If we allow one to just get a slap on the wrist and tell them "don't do it again" then we have to do it to all molesters.

And I'm sorry about what happened to your friend and at your school. And I really hope your friend doesn't plan to be with him after he gets out of prison. I hope one day she will be able to wake up and see the situation for what it really was. It wasn't love. Lust possibly, but not love. If he had truely "loved" her, he would have waited. But you really need to rethink your stance on child molestation. You called what your teacher did was rape. It wasn't. It was molestation.

Dave, you have flooded this thread with far too much psychobabble that to me sounds like it's a front for soft-peddling pedophilia. Your long diatribes are rarely as constructive as they should be, and they mostly seem to center around this idea that we should empathize with the motives of pedophiles.

The "why" of this being wrong is so patently obvious to people with more of a conscious about who they seduce. There is an imbalance intellectually that allows the relationship to be about manipulation, coercion and control of a more helpless individual whose innocence a pedophile has selfishly taken. Teachers abusing their position for their own sexual gratification when they should be honoring their responsibility to help the raising of a child to education and adulthood with pure intentions will always be wrong. The authority of educators breaks down when these boundaries are not observed. It is against the obvious ethics of the teaching profession.

Likewise, even if you're 23 and your friend's sister who you've known since she was 10 is now 16, even if you're 21 and you discover the girl you have been flirting with is 14 but pursue her anyway, you are asking for trouble.

J,

Completely agree 100%.

Ryan,
I had to change my mind about you. I was wondering what you thought about Scott and Daves comments. I agree with you 100% about the first posting of Scott's that you responded back to. Let me know if you get a chance?

My question is....what normal adult would WANT to have sex with a person under the age of 18? I mean, I understand if the person is 18, then they are "legally" an adult and may want to sleep with a 16 or 17 year old....but I'm 26 and at 18 I would have never wanted to sleep with someone that was 14!!!! That's crazy!!! Something must be wrong mentally....

all you sick child molesters... that's all of you, should come over and line up so I can test the concept of shooting all of you with one bullet. then just lay there so I can waste a few more rounds on all of you... especially subspace... oh and bring the low life want to be molester teachers.

To Ryan and guerrero.

Sorry for my delay, my computer was having problems. I got a mac now though, and they are awesome.

First off psychologist don't even classify the desire for 14 year olds as pedophilia. Only the law does. People used to get married at 14, does that mean that they were pedophiles. (I am not sure about this, but I believe that psychologist classify pedophilia as an attraction to people that are 13 or younger, don't quote me on that though.)

Second of all people like yourselves usually have latent sexual desires for teens or children. Which you try to hide by projecting anger at others that you believe also have those feelings. For example, it has been found by research that males that hate homosexual males usually have latent bisexual feelings. The more anger and violent talk that you engage in, the more it becomes apparent that you might be sexually attracted to teenagers under 18 years of age. Maybe you are not, but to me it sounds like you are. Also it is very apparent that you two are violent minded idiots that are incapable of thinking for themselves, but instead respond to things in the way that they have been environmentally conditioned to respond too. Like an animal in a Skinner box.

Third of all, true pedophilia, which is an attraction to pre teens is actually a developmental brain disorder. Research done in Canada in 2007 using MRI's showed that the brains of pedophiles were wired differently than normal brains and were not developed right. Most pedophiles are short, left handed, and do not have the same amount of white matter in their brains that everyone else does. Plus the hypothalamus responds differently to sexual stimuli. This will really piss you off though, what I am getting at is that since pedophilia is a developmental disorder that pedophiles should be treated humanly. They should not be allowed to run around and have freedom, but they should not be miss treated either.

And for those that did not believe the story that I wrote. Yes I do really have mental problems. When I was a child I had emotional problems, but during middle school they seemed to go away. But by my senior year of high school they returned, but this time they were 10 times more severe.

This is all I am saying on the matter, I have no more desire to post here, so if you respond I am not going to answer, although I will read it.