Mexican Smugglers Threaten Off-Duty Nogales Cops Who Made 400-Pound Weed Bust

• <i>CNN Opinion <b>Why good jobs are going unfilled</i></b> By David Frum CNN Contributor July 6, 2010 http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/06/frum.skills.mismatch/index.html?hpt=C2 Washington (CNN) -- "We're getting to the point where even good news comes wrapped in bad news. "Good news: Despite the terrible June job numbers (125,000 jobs lost as the Census finished its work), one sector continues to gain -- manufacturing. "Factories added 9,000 workers in June, for a total of 136,000 hires since December 2009. "So that's something, yes? "Maybe not. Despite millions of unemployed, despite 2 million job losses in manufacturing between the end of 2007 and the end of 2009, factory employers apparently cannot find the workers they need. Here's what the New York Times reported Friday: "The problem, the companies say, is a mismatch between the kind of skilled workers needed and the ranks of the unemployed. "During the recession, domestic manufacturers appear to have accelerated the long-term move toward greater automation, laying off more of their lowest-skilled workers and replacing them with cheaper labor abroad. "Now they are looking to hire people who can operate sophisticated computerized machinery, follow complex blueprints and demonstrate higher math proficiency than was previously required of the typical assembly line worker." "It may sound like manufacturers are being too fussy. But they face a real problem. "As manufacturing work gets more taxing, manufacturers are looking at a work force that is actually becoming less literate and less skilled. "In 2007, ETS -- the people who run the country's standardized tests -- compiled a battery of scores of basic literacy conducted over the previous 15 years and arrived at a startling warning: <i>On present trends, the country's average score on basic literacy tests will drop by 5 percent by 2030 as compared to 1992.</i> "That's a disturbing headline. Behind the headline is even worse news. "Not everybody's scores are dropping. In fact, ETS estimates that the percentage of Americans who can read at the very highest levels will actually rise slightly by 2030 as compared to 1992 -- a special national "thank you" to all those parents who read to their kids at bedtime! "But that small rise at the top is overbalanced by a collapse of literacy at the bottom. "In 1992, 17 percent of Americans scored at the very lowest literacy level. On present trends, 27 percent of Americans will score at the very lowest level in 2030. "What's driving the deterioration? <i>An immigration policy that favors the unskilled.</i> Immigrants to Canada and Australia typically arrive with very high skills, including English-language competence. But the United States has taken a different course. <b>Since 2000, the United States has received some 10 million migrants, approximately half of them illegal.</b> "Migrants to the United States arrive with much less formal schooling than migrants to Canada and Australia and very poor English-language skills. More than 80 percent of Hispanic adult migrants to the United States score below what ETS deems a minimum level of literacy necessary for success in the U.S. labor market. "Let's put this in concrete terms. Imagine a migrant to the United States. He's hard-working, strong, energetic, determined to get ahead. He speaks almost zero English, and can barely read or write even in Spanish. He completed his last year of formal schooling at age 13 and has been working with his hands ever since. "He's an impressive, even admirable human being. Maybe he reminds some Americans of their grandfather. And had he arrived in this country in 1920, there would have been many, many jobs for him to do that would have paid him a living wage, enabling him to better himself over time -- backbreaking jobs, but jobs that did not pay too much less than what a fully literate English-speaking worker could earn. "During the debt-happy 2000s, that same worker might earn a living assembling houses or landscaping hotels and resorts. But with the Great Recession, the bottom has fallen out of his world. And even when the recession ends, we're not going to be building houses like we used to, or spending money on vacations either. "We may hope that over time the children and grandchildren of America's immigrants of the 1990s and 2000s will do better than their parents and grandparents. For now, the indicators are not good: American-born Hispanics drop out of high school at very high rates. "Over time, yes, they'll probably catch up -- <i>by the 2060s</i>, they'll probably be doing fine. "But over the intervening half century, we are going to face a big problem. We talk a lot about retraining workers, but we don't really know how to do it very well -- particularly workers who cannot read fluently. Our schools are not doing a brilliant job training the native-born less advantaged: even now, a half-century into the civil rights era, still one-third of black Americans read at the lowest level of literacy. "Just as we made bad decisions about physical capital in the 2000s -- overinvesting in houses, underinvesting in airports, roads, trains, and bridges -- <i>so we also made fateful decisions about our human capital: accepting too many unskilled workers from Latin America, too few highly skilled workers from China and India.</i> "We have been operating a human capital policy for the world of 1910, not 2010. And now the Great Recession is exposing the true costs of this malinvestment in human capital. It has wiped away the jobs that less-skilled immigrants can do, that offered them a livelihood and a future. Who knows when or if such jobs will return? Meanwhile the immigrants fitted for success in the 21st century economy were locating in Canada and Australia. <b>"Americans do not believe in problems that cannot be quickly or easily solved. They place their faith in education and re-education. They do not like to remember that it took two and three generations for their own families to acquire the skills necessary to succeed in a technological society. They hate to imagine that their country might be less affluent, more unequal, and less globally competitive in the future because of decisions they are making now. Yet all these things are true.</b> "We cannot predict in advance which skills precisely will be needed by the U.S. economy of a decade hence. Nor should we try, for we'll certainly guess wrong. What we can know is this: Immigrants who arrive with language and math skills, with professional or graduate degrees, will adapt better to whatever the future economy throws at them. "Even more important, their children are much more likely to find a secure footing in the ultratechnological economy of the mid-21st century. <b>And by reducing the flow of very unskilled foreign workers into the United States, we will tighten labor supply in ways that will induce U.S. employers to recruit, train and retain the less-skilled native born, especially <i>African-Americans</i> -- the group hit hardest by the Great Recession of 2008-2010.</b> "In the short term, we need policies to fight the recession. We need monetary stimulus, a cheaper dollar, and lower taxes. But none of these policies can fix the skills mismatch that occurs when an advanced industrial economy must find work for people who cannot read very well, and whose children are not reading much better. "The United States needs a human capital policy that emphasizes skilled immigration and halts unskilled immigration. It needed that policy 15 years ago, but it's <i>not</i> too late to start now." [emphasis added]

• :D

• Haha cw, you said it!

• &#64;ccccc, I am civil. I am the picture of restraint and civility. I give people a lot of chances. Many is the time I have been called heinous names yet I did not respond in kind. There are examples of it all over this blog. Until I've had enough. Then I fight back. That will never change. If you don't like what I've said or how I've said it, then ignore it. Say what you like about the subject post and leave me out of it. I will do the same. With great sincerity, and in a truly friendly gesture, I am going to make a suggestion that I think is suitable: let it go. Let time pass.

• oh boy

• Alexa Kim: You misunderstand me again, and it's my fault for not being blunt. I'll try again. I'm asking you- really, I'm begging you- for your assistance in keeping these debates civil. I know you're an intelligent lady and I hoped that you might have something to teach me. I haven't given up on that idea, and I haven't given up on you.

• &#64;Pete, ok. So, @sockofak/sickofak, you're my new friend to joust with; capital. =) Maybe I should use a special nick while messing around with you. How about "toyswithsickofak"?

• Sockofak isn't CCCC.

• &#64;sickofak, right, I believe you, millions wouldn't. Well stop it. If you don't like my drivel, but you like your own-- er, I mean @cccc's instead, then go make love to her.

• Um, not sure what you mean by ccccc, I'm not familiar with who that is...I have never commented before, but unfortunately I have had to scroll through 10 paragraphs of your crap on EVERY story that has been posted.

• Hey sickntioredofak, wow, @ccccc you can't even spell your new nic right. sickandtiredofak. Try again. Don't be as long-winded as you were above.

• Wow, more long-winded posts from alexa kim...no surprise there, I guess.

• Returning to the subject at hand, I re-post what I tried to post Sunday: @therealwildone, why, no, I didn't "notice" because that didn't happen. Sandy's expressing an appreciation for my arguments, not my sexy back. Oh grow up. LOL! You think <i><b>I'm</i></b> paranoid?! Thanks for the levity. @John J, spot on. Most of the moonbats don't want to hear it. What?!, they ask incredulously, Hizb'allah is noticing how we're too a'sceerd of hurting the brown/green/purple people's feelings so we'll just put on our darkest of sunglasses and pretend everything is alllllll right. See, the open borders fans think Hizb'allah will feel solidarity with the Reconquistas. Hey, @therealwildone, listen up, this part is fascinating. No, Hizb'allah and Hamas think Latinos are inferior. But they'll pretend to like us as long as it suits them. ========== From the news item linked by @JohnJ just above re Hizb'allah: "A 2006 House Homeland Security Committee report further noted that Hezbollah members have already been caught entering the United States via Mexico, suggesting expanded activity. The report cited as one example the case of Mahmoud Youssef Kourani, the brother of a Hezbollah chief, who in 2005 pleaded guilty to providing material support to Hezbollah after being smuggled across the U.S.-Mexico border and settling in Dearborn, Mich." It's not paranoia if it's true.

• &#64;ccccc, I hope your book is a good one, your majesty. I do not wonder why people have a hard time engaging in conversation with me, at all. At another post about this subject, we reached, what I thought was a truce. Yet, though you claim to want to let bygones be bygones, you keep wanting to pick a fight with me. Now who's gunning for who? I haven't hurled anything. That is a sophistry attempted by your comrade Joe. When you sound like you are the spokesmodel for "others" do you mean you and him? I defend myself. I am entitled to defend myself and my point of view. I'm sorry you hate that. For you to excise a portion of my comment above to make your argument that I'm the hater, is a failed attempt at pointing out what you are certain you are empty of: hypocrisy. That I rightfully deride those who self-admit they didn't hear me out, i.e., read my comment, because they found it to be too long, is not an example of hypocrisy. Sorry, you'll have to try harder. You aren't telling me what to do or how to post? Really? I'm sorry you find my style of expressing my observations to be "insults" because usually, they are meant to make it clear how it is I perceive another and/or their position when they have attacked me, written irrationally or ignored my response to them. Taking up bandwidth to have a sorta' private side bar with me is really poor form. Especially since this is, as you say, unrelated to the post. When persons make it clear that they will be unreasonable and belligerent as a matter of course as their opening salvo, I've learned to make it clear up front that such tactics will not work on me. And let me re-remind you, extending courtesy to each other is not optional IF we expect to advance the discourse. I did not misunderstand you, I expounded on what you meant. You misunderstand me. I cannot yet decide if you do so honestly or willfully. If you don't want to engage in decent discourse with me, because you don't like how I defend my position, that's up to you. But to try to disarm me by claiming I routinely insult people, is patently false. And, frankly, beneath you. As I asked Joe, are you a Saul Alinsky "Rules for Radicals" devotee? Because attempting to quash me and my opinions by attempting to reduce my status as a fellow citizen, as someone worth only being ignored because I do not cleave to your beliefs, is classic Alinsky. It sounds to me like what you want is for me to shut up and stop commenting. Not bloody likely. You have your friends who like your comments. Huh, what a coincidence, so do I.

• alexa kim: This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, just to give you fair warning. My problem with your commentary isn't so much that it's too long to read. It's that's they're peppered with divisive insults. Note that no one else is complaining that you don't want to hear dissent or that you ignore thoughtful commentary. And what is this: "less hurling of epithets from the moonbats." No one has hurled any epithets on this thread but you. Note that no one has mentioned anything derogatory toward conservatives in general. You post this: "This issue concerns many sub-issues, most of which most of the looney hard-ass left refuses to discuss at length because of their TL;DR ("Too lazy, didn't read, but they'll act like they're entitled to comment on it anyway, and they hate "Bowling for Columbine" and "Last Temptation" which they haven't seen, and they think kettle corn is ok except for that vinegar after burn, which they haven't tried). " And then follow with this (without the slightest trace of irony): "How can reasonable people get anywhere with entrenched haters like that getting in the way?" I'm not telling you what to do or how to post. But if you're wondering why people have a problem engaging you, your inclination to insult people might be the reason why. I can wait to have this discussion with someone who is respectful. I know that there are people willing to be polite while disagreeing with me, as I've encountered them here, previously. Once again, I would also like to take this opportunity to remind you that no one is obligated to agree or compromise with you (or me). No one owes us that particular courtesy. When, in the past, I said this exact same thing, you mistook what I said to mean "courtesy" in general, and basically said that we should be courteous to each other (which I agree with, wholeheartedly). I would implore you now to put that notion into practice. Sarcasm and satire can be humorous and intelligent. Or they can be mistaken for humor and intelligence, employed simply to be insulting. I have a book to read. Good day.

• Yeah, John, we've had some technical problems over the weekend, including having the comment function not working, but it seems to be fixed now.

• The site was frozen Saturay or soemthing. I had 3 posts blocked. And yes cccc part of this is a bout crime control. national terror alert . c o m /updates/2010/06/25/hezbollah-cartel-nexus-on-u-s-border-warns-congresswoman/

• Border Patrol Saves a Family from Drowning http://www.greatamericans.com/video/Border-Patrol-Saves-a-Family-fr "Maria said 'don't risk your family... the safest way to immigrate to America is to do it legally....'"

• Not a clue. Not the first time I've had a comment double-post, with one being a previous draft. That's the part that baffles me. Sure, could be OE, but can't prove it yet. Sorry for bandwidth klepto.

• Are the CNN readers hoisting their Mission Accomplished banner already? For all readers, for another perspective on the crime stats released by the FBI recently, which is exactly what CNN has <i>interpreted for its demographic</i>, check this article as well: h t t p : / / newsbusters . org /blogs/clay-waters/2010/06/22/illegal-immigration-raising-arizonas-crime-rate-ny-times-says-no-releva A link I included in my commentary at a related thread days ago. Because the open border fans do not wish to hear dissent, they actively ignore any other perspectives that are as valid, as thoughtful, as suitable as a candidate for "the truth" as any they cling to. If it were <i>just</i> about crime, we might have reached agreement far sooner. If we could focus on the part where an open border allows in persons intent on blowing up churches, malls, cities, then, again, we'd get farther faster with less hurling of epithets from the moonbats. (Notice I didn't say "no hurling." Baby steps, baby steps.) This issue concerns many sub-issues, most of which most of the looney hard-ass left refuses to discuss at length because of their TL;DR ("Too lazy, didn't read, but they'll act like they're entitled to comment on it anyway, and they hate "Bowling for Columbine" and "Last Temptation" which they haven't seen, and they think kettle corn is ok except for that vinegar after burn, which they haven't tried). How can reasonable people get anywhere with entrenched haters like that getting in the way?

• No worries, Sandy, no carnality was intended or inferred. =) (*whew*) LOL

• Love your comments, J. Keep 'em coming. Is this really about crime? According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born." I copied that last bit from Crime Stats Test Rationale Behind Arizona Immigration Law by By Mariano Castillo, on CNN's website. http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/29/arizona.immigration.crime/index.html

• Now I have to take the extra an out.

• alexa kim, did you notice how your accomplice sandy just responded in a over-reaching possibly homophobic manner? hmmm... these are the people telling you, you're the smart one! and you are in a sense but well put hate-filled paranoid bullshit is still just that, bullshit.

• Alexa Kim, I didn't mean that I love you, love you. You're an comments are fantastic.

• I can see why marihuana is illegal. since everyone i know in my personal life who has used it. depending on how much they used, how much, and at what stage of their life. tend to have different degrees of short term memory loss. one, i can be on the phone on the way to his house. I get there 20 minutes later. and he has totally forgotten that I was there to visit.

• Cartel members shot the rancher who helped illegals with food after crossing a desert. No the cartel is going after law enforcement. The prez will do nothing unless he gets it hi way. nationalterroralert . c o m /updates/2010/06/25/hezbollah-cartel-nexus-on-u-s-border-warns-congresswoman/

• Hezbollah crossing the border. The prez won't move until he gets comprehensive reform. His way or the highway. nationalterroralert . com /updates/2010/06/25/hezbollah-cartel-nexus-on-u-s-border-warns-congresswoman/

• Sandy =) I luv u back.

• Alexa Kim, I just love you.

• Well, J, we appear to have reached an impasse. Just so you know, I'm not pissed or outraged or even irked. I'm just dismayed and depressed. You do not want to meet me half way. You just don't. You don't want to meet anyone half way. You just think we--anyone who doesn't see it your way--are wrong. Flat out wrong, with evil or unwholesome motives (which some of us think of you), because we must be evil, or at least mean, for that is the only possible motive *you* can think of that could possibly drive people to the emotions and actions we have and take. You think that for me, as an American with Hispanic blood in her veins I'm SUPPOSED to fit your narrative, I'm obligated to feel and act a certain way. I'm not Mexican-American. I am American. That I have Mexican blood in my veins should only be interesting, and that's all. That's all. I agree that comparing or equating the act of breaking a traffic law is not the same as violating the rules of access to the house. They are not the same. If we have driven for any period of time, then we will have broken the law and, until we pay the fine and/or have it ruled in court in our favor, we are technically "criminals." The same procedure applies to those here illegally. The unique quality of the crime is that the mere presence of being inside my house, against my wishes, means you are constantly, chronically, a criminal. The way to fix that is to leave when asked. Once you're back in your house, you are no longer a criminal. Or, if I decide to let you stay, then you pay the penalty/fine/whatever I require before I think you're no longer a threat and maybe I can let you stay in my house and you won't make me sorry. But that is up to me, because it my house. Do you understand J? Do you really understand that at all? Please, try thinking of it as YOUR actual house. Think of me just showing up and being inside of your house. No notice, no invite, no nothing. I'm in your house. Does it piss you off? Does it alarm you? You can buy or not buy whatever I tell you is the truth from me. But it is sheer hatred, fear and bigotry IN YOU for you to insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that I must be a hater. Because you are so limited that you can't imagine all the other aspects of humanity that are involved and that don't include eviiiiiiil evilness. But when criminals, violent criminals, illegally enter our country J, and they kill innocent Americans, to notice and say so is not reaching too far IT IS FUCKING REALITY. Read the goddamn papers, don't believe me. Please. Just because some Americans, who are addicted to drugs, choose to drive the drug business does not mean that the vast majority of the rest of Americans have to dance to that fucking tune. If drug addicts and drug dealers would keep their nasty messes to themselves, it might be one thing. But they don't. They hurt a lot of other people, people just minding their own business. Don't worry about the psychology of the persons who object to people breaking our laws, especially since we're supposed to be a land of laws, which is the only way all persons can hope to receive equal justice. You can try to fathom the mind of those you cannot fathom. Trust me, we're the doing same about you. We find you equally baffling. Here's an even simpler analogy for you to mull over and maybe one day, you'll see what the hell I'm talking about. When your little girl is molested by one of two guests in your house, do you kick one of them out? Do you paralyze yourself for fear of "offending" the good guest? Do you decide the safety of your child is worth offending the good guest? What if the good guest finds you stupid for worrying about their feelings over the safety of your own child? Do yourself a favor. Not for me or my mother. For yourself. Think over what I've said and don't fire off an angry rant quite yet. If you still feel an irresistible need to disagree with me some more after giving what I've said some honest and sincere consideration, then, fine, see you then. Peace out.

• My family is from Nogales, Anglo side, not that it matters, since it's one town bisected by a wall. We've lived in Arizona for almost 100 years. Unless you've lived in a border state, on the border...you just can't know how truly entitled Mexicans feel to be here, in the US. Mexico has been directing its poor peasantry north for decades. Great people on a personal level, but I'm personally not cool with the aggregate's apparent total ability to change our culture. America does have a culture, you know. Mores. Norms. It's great that we embrace elements from many nations, but press two for Spanish? I'm thinking it's getting a little too cozy.

• I get how some people just are so morally upright that they can't even stand the thought of amensty because they see it as "rewarding" crime, but I find it hard to believe so many are SO challenge to see it in any other than the most extreme of light. Also, I think it just doesn't seem plausible to me, given my examples of the petty crimes we all typically commit, to get THAT worked up over it. Like, it really obviously burns people to imagine that someone isn't going to be punished to the fullest extent of the law for this....grrrrr....they are so bad.....grrrr...gritting my teeth I'm so mad at them. But then, when the hell is ANYONE prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law? When they are really, really evil, they stand a better chance of having the book thrown at them - and not even then necessarily if they have enough money or influence, or just the right lawyer. It just seems sort of uncharacteristically aggressive to treat this as so severe, so harsh a crime, that you would support such wholescale spending as mass deportations. I call the bluff of anyone that pissed off about it they would actually stand for such use of their tax dollars, without the slightest clue what the economic fallout would be. I just personally suspect there are generally other psychological things at play, some bias, some personal grudge, something. It just doesn't jive with me to see that much animosity over this. It's kind of like, the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head is, how irate do you get at bank robbers? Grrrr...how dare they steal it when I have to work for it? GRRRR, that's MY money in that bank! I mean, of course you want BANK ROBBERS to go to prison, damn, they're often wielding a gun in public, scaring the crap out of people to commit their crime, actually endangering real lives at that very moment. But do you get extra mad about the specific crime, or do you just treat it like any other of equal severity?

• Alexa, I will tell you what would make the "border fence" cost a lot less - recognizing we already have one and maintaining that before talking about constructing anything new. That sounds like a lame excuse to employ bitter people who could better serve building a hospital or a school or a hundred other things. Bickering about it is the only good way to prevent others from suppporting wasting more money on unnecessary, stupid crap. Don't try blaming that for no progress being made. The speeding analogy. Speeding, even a few miles over the speed limit, could endanger lives. If you ran over a child in a school zone, I'm not sure how much they are going to split hairs over whether it was 5 or 10 miles. The point is, it's a perfect example of a dangerous crime that Americans commit all the time. I use it as an analogy because I see the severity as fairly comparable. As it is, it's hard enough to even make the analogy. It's apples to oranges, really, but I picked a crime that I thought could have an outcome that is potentially more devastating to me than someone cheating social services. A death that resulted from speeding would be far more tragic to me. I'm sorry, I don't buy that all of the hate speech directed at immigrants is purely love of country. I think if that were the case, the tone of it would be much different. And incidentally, being Mexican has rarely stopped Mexicans from hating on other latin americans. I do reject the idea of this being "our house" in the sense of us vs. them. It's the divisiveness of such language that bothres me most. It's their land too, we just redrew the borders arbitrarily and expect that to be the gospel for the rest of eternity. So, you think it shouldn't be treated like a traffic fine, then make it a $500 fine. There aren't too many traffic fines that stringent. And when a citation is issued, background checks are run, so that automatically assumes asking some of those questions. If someone doesn't show up to pay their fine, you wouldn't hear me complaining that they are "jack booted brown shirts," so don't attempt to lump me into your category of despised "hysterical open border fans." That's just an obvious way to capitalize on this this rather than regressing economically to suit people who just want to see less brown in this country, legal or otherwise. Because it didn't work before, we should give up on that and seek much more expensive measure? I think what people should open their eyes to is that this country is full of chaos, and was going to be, is going to be, with or without illegals here. This idea that they are responsible for the majority of our crime, that seems to be the popular insinuation to make, just because someone can point to news stories and some biased statistics. Anyone can put the spin on any crime to make it reflect poorly on the race of the perpetrator, only, people have thankfully stopped doing this nearly as much except for one group of people - ours! And that is even more insulting to me to hear a Mexican-American trying to make that claim that illegals are responsible for rampant crime in this country. Anyone can see that all races contribute equal shares of it. There's no genentic predisposition that makes one more criminal by nature, but that's what some of the long rants you post seem to constantly imply. "It. Costs. Innocent. American. Lives." is reaching too far. I'm sorry, it just is. It's xenophobic and paranoid. The drug trade is a violent business, and Americans provide the demand to make that machine tick. People are always going to die over drugs, as long as it is legal. If these are the innocent Americans you think it is costing lives, the ones killed over drugs, what about the fact that a huge percentage of the people killed over them aren't the law enforcement or the people fighting them, or innocent bystanders in a drive by, but the other people in the drug business? What about all the thousands of innocent people killed in these stories who aren't victims of illegals? Why single people out this way? It just isnt' rational.

• Sorry, there's a paragraph out of order up there that makes it seem nonsensical. Here is how it should flow: .... A speeding ticket for going 5 miles an hour over in a 40 mph zone or 20 miles an hour over on the highway? What if the illegal alien has a criminal history in their home country but we don't dare ask. We're just supposed to hand out tickets, not ask questions. We're doing that now. We. Are. Doing. That. Now. We. Hate. It. Because. It. Costs. Innocent. American. Lives. So. NEEDLESSLY. Can you imagine if we sent shall we say fine collectors out to find the people who never paid their trespass citation? We have hysterical open border fans who think we send "jack booted brown shirts" out to hunt pobrecito Mexicans now as it is, so imagine how they'll react to this idea. w w w . immigrationshumancost . org /text/crimevictims.html We don't hate people. We hate when they hurt us and we could have prevented it so very easily. They could have prevented it by just obeying the law, any law, all the laws, laws of their country and ours. Laws YOU and I have to obey. ....

• &#64;J, I'm not sure, but I think you're asking for anyone with any authority to tell you how many feet of border already has a fence built on it? Here's a link to the DHS section about the Southwest Border Fence: w w w . dhs . gov /files/programs/border-fence-southwest.shtm The fence would have cost a whole lot less if we weren't constantly bickering over it. Had we been allowed to follow common sense and just finish putting up the fence, it would have been put up a long time ago, paying with fewer and stronger dollars. J, just why do you think we keep fighting on this subject? Because we all care about the state of our country, you, me, all of us. We see the resolution of the problems very, very differently. Whose solution is better than another's? Nobody can decide that except us. The citation idea has already been tried and it failed miserably. It was called "catch and release." Ok, you think we should treat the presence of persons in our house as no more serious than a speeding ticket. A speeding ticket for going 5 miles an hour over in a 40 mph zone or 20 miles an hour over on the highway? What if the illegal alien has a criminal history in their home country but we don't dare ask. We're just supposed to hand out tickets, not ask questions. Can you imagine if we sent shall we say fine collectors out to find the people who never paid their trespass citation? We have hysterical open border fans who think we send "jack booted brown shirts" out to hunt pobrecito Mexicans now as it is, so imagine how they'll react to this idea. We're doing that now. We. Are. Doing. That. Now. We. Hate. It. Because. It. Costs. Innocent. American. Lives. So. NEEDLESSLY. w w w . immigrationshumancost . org /text/crimevictims.html We. Hate. It. We don't hate people. We hate when they hurt us and we could have prevented it so very easily. They could have prevented it by just obeying the law, any law, all the laws, laws of their country and ours. Laws YOU and I have to obey. I will not agree to treat the citizenship of my country like it's worth only a traffic fine. There is a lot of data and information posted at the post here titled "Reader: America Can't Afford the Billions it Would Take to Halt Illegal Immigration." There is a very robust and passionate comment thread. Finally, I am of Mexican lineage. My mother came here legally from Mexico. I don't hate Mexicans. I don't know why you think all of this stems from hate of a people because it is simply not the case. It stems from loving our country and seeing, with open and honest eyes the damage and chaos around us that is the result of people breaking the law.

• Damn all that weed gone to waste. Legalize the freaking plant

• &#64;J - Great questions, lots to think about. I still have 20+ hours left on my shift. As long as it doesnt get too busy (it is a Friday, so no promises) I will look into what you are asking about on my down time.

• But can anyone explain to me, though, how this singular crime of crossing the border is any worse than speeding or driving after a few drinks, which I feel confident saying the majority of adults in America will at some point in their lives do? I have yet to year someone even attempt to claim it is because it costs us so many more dollars. If someone wants to do that, they ought to be prepared to calculate how much sales tax illegals pay, and the cost of suddenly extracting all that cheap labor from our economy as privately owned businesses struggle to rebudget having to pay minimum wage and inevitably close many of their doors permanently to get into something more profitable. It certainly seems impossible to argue that it is endangering more lives than speeding, or all the Americans already killing each other, for that matter. It is only increasing the violence in an already violent country in the sense of more people = more violence. If there was a gap left by some mass deportation, some other violent Americans are only going to fill its place.

• &#64;J - I personally don't hate Mexicans *so much*. I hate illegals looking for a reward just because they were successful in breaking laws. In my personal opinion, anyone who starts out as breaking laws to get here, to get what they want, damn anyone who stands in their way is dangerous.

• Again, can anyone say with even a shred of authority how many feet of the border don't ALREADY have a wall. Why do so many people have such a hard-on to spend MORE of the tax dollars they are constantly pissing and moaning about the misuse of? Can't anyone come up with some solutions that don't amount to more massive overspending? I did! No one seems to have objected thus far to the idea of issuing citations. If you can't people to show up to pay them, start knocking on doors. Collect money from them rather than spending mine to deport them just because you hate Mexicans so much!

• &#64;JohnJ, agreed, we still need the assistance of a fence. If tunnels are really all that problematic, we should be deploying seismographs along with drones, among other things. But as the old saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way--and not just for the illegals. I wonder why people think that the hoard of illegals is an unstoppable force we just are too wimpy to fight. So, oh darn, let's just give in. Here's an article I just read about the Dutch joint joints: w w w . globalpost . com/dispatch/netherlands/100202/marijuana-cannabis-amsterdam-coffee-shop

• I am afraid of meth. The Army Air Force used to give it to pilots. No matter how many poorly written Hollywierd scripts, the military saw that meth was bad & stopped using it during WWII. There does seem to be drug use by the Wehrmacht during WWII during the Battle of the Bulge. Drugs only helpe so much and there is a down side. I do worry about designer drugs, a lot. They can destroy brains fast. It already bad enough that boys are getting girls drunk to get their way. I hate to see them with ready access to designer drugs like ectasy.

• Ah, but I'm not advocating for drugs to be legalized across the board, so in the case of a plant pulled undoctored from the ground, in fact, deaths should not increase. I think meth is particularly evil and should be abolished altogether, for example. I don't see any rational argument for legalizing THAT one. Unfortunately, far too many Americans, in particular, seem love it too much for that to happen.

• &#64; J - Tunnels are not a strike against a wall. Tunneling can be easily detected. It just depend if the government wants to. I'll be reading up on the on Holland. One thing I do know. If drugs are legalized, drug addictions and deaths will go up in the short term. After that they would probably decrease.

• My perspective is, there is already a wall. And they currently tunnel under it. Have you seen how elaborate those tunnels are? I'm not saying every inch of the way has a wall, but does anyone have any clue how much doesn't? Every foot of it I've seen does. The other is, my only concern as far as illegal immigration are ones who are in the gangs that run drugs across borders. But see, tons of this is even controled from behind prison walls in the U.S.! (In fact, wonder how many illegals were incarcerated here for drug related crimes vs. being deported). Also, I think a huge percentage of gang people have no interest in leaving latin american, where they are needed. But they are probably slipping in and out of the U.S. through their networks that will either never be detected by stupid racial profiling, or they've paid off the right people to ensure they won't ever be. There are way too many powerful Americans having their pockets lined by the drugs we supposedly declared war on. Anyway, I just feel like, as much as I think the government will tax the hell out of it like liquor, etc, at least that much regulation of it is going to deliver a stern blow to organized crime. I suspect that they only reason this hasn't happened is there must be some major benefits I am seeing to letting criminals do all the dirty work. Bottlegging would increase, probably, and that would actually be a good thing, in some ways. I think in one sense, as much as those guys are likely to use whatever pesticides are most efficient - so is our government likely to. It's not like cocaine where it ends up cut using kerosene and nasty stuff, though. It's not raised differently than other agricultural products, as far as I can tell. There's just not a lot bootleggers can do to make it more dangerous and unhealthy. Also, I think very few growers and dealers are not sampling their own product, which means they are less likely to poison it, but that's pure speculation. I just don't see a good argument against legalizing at least this one substance. We'll never know how effective that could be unless we start somewhere, and what better test case than a plant?

• &#64; J - I somewhat agree with you. But sometimes in the same breath they say tax the shit out of it. If you do that, you get bootlegging. Although the profits of bootlegging may not support as many criminals. But trust me you will get bootlegging. I kind of think bootleggers will be easier to suppress than out & out smugglers. We still need a fucking wall.

• &#64;Kristin, I wuv u back. =) In a totally non-stalker-hetero-friendly-o way. lol

• Isn't it ironic that the badguys got away but the evil marijuana was confiscated? Whew! Thank goodness someone didn't smoke that!

• As others have said, legalize a drug that is a plant just as it naturally grows in the ground, and this whole thing becomes rather a non-issue. Then governments can devote even more energy to arresting more people for illegal border crossing vs. delivering drugs to Americans waiting in line for them!

• I think I love alexakim. I really don't even need to post, she pretty always cover everything...lol.

• Janet Napolitano has no children. It makes me think she cares naught for the future. She won't be affected. How old is she? She has 20 years left maybe 30 on the outside. She don't care. I saw here at a minority conference. She lit up when talking about the President wanting COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM. She was not as animated about securing the border. Watch for body language, since most of the leftists leaders are accomplished sophists.

• and you get jerks like the Houston's Mayor and the Police Chief who do not want to do anything against the illegals. even though they have the power to do so. Houston's Police Chief Harold L. Hurtt recently testified before congress that cracking down on illegal aliens in Houston would offend the Hispanic community and disrupt the current help that the police department receives from the community. here is the Mayor Bill White's take on it: "As a local law enforcement agency, under law, we can't deport people," White said. "That is the job of the federal government, and we're calling on the federal government to do their job."

• Has anyone read the new AZ state self-protection anti-ILLEGAL immigration law? Last I heard, it is an adoption of our federal immigration laws, and with stricter prohibitions against "racial profiling" than the federal laws. No, the barking moonbats think that the way to handle this problem is to capitulate to the drug cartels (heaven forbid they capitulate to America), to wave them on in, greeting them with apologies for not making drugs legal sooner. All our law enforcement people, the moonbats cry in a blur of tears for those just trying to feed their tigers guarding their cocaine and money pits, ARE raaaaacists just WAITING for any excuse at all to pull them over-- er, sorry, waiting to pull over the brown (black, red, green, yellow, purple, chartreuse) people just to be meanies. Then they stamp their feet and pout, while our border patrol agents die, while drug dealers profile our police for death, while Americans die, while Mexicans die, while coyotes kill their clients, while Mexico's rich continue to steal their citizens blind, while sending our money over to Mexico, while people here working illegally ship money to other countries enriching those economies, sucking ours low, while they glow in their own self-adoration, comforted yet again that they are not mean. Riiiiiiiight.

• Maybe it is time to become a "fan of Arizona's new immigration law". At least read more about it to understand what I really is, and isn't. And how the Governments version of their own laws meant to enforce boarder control are actually more harsh. But since they don't do anything to protect the US, nobody seems to care. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

• Gee, I wonder what we could do??? oooh, pick me, pick me... SECURE THE DAMN BORDERS!!! DING, DING, DING... I think we have a winner (not wiener, that award goes to Al Gore)

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