Neighbors Who See Stabbing Kick Ass
Steven Spader on Trial For Hacking Kimberly Cates to Death & Trying to Kill 11-Year-Old Girl
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| Kimberly Cates was hacked to death as she lay sleeping in her home with her daughter |
It didn't really matter who that someone was. They'd decided to kill whoever they encountered before they even chose whose house they would rob. Unfortunately for Kimberly Cates and her 11-year-old daughter Jaimie, their house was solely chosen for its seclusion in Mont Vernon, New Hampshire.
As we wrote back in January:
According to Gribble, Kimberly woke up. Spader attacked her with a machete. Gribble stabbed young Jaimie in the face and chest, trying to to knife her through the heart. He chucked her against a door, presuming she was dead. The girl would later tell police she faked death until the men left.
Kimberly died from machete wounds to the head, torso, arms and legs. But Jaimie survived after two weeks in the hospital. The criminal geniuses were caught because they bragged about the murder to friends. Apparently they're the kind of guys who think killing a woman and stabbing an 11-year-old is an act worthy of envy.
According to police documents released today, Gribble, who says he's long wanted to murder someone, told detectives his only regret is that he didn't kill the girl.
| Jaimie Cates played dead until her attackers left, even though she'd been savagedly attacked with a machete |
Prosecutors say Spader brought a machete to the home invasion robbery. At the time, Jamie and Kimberly were sleeping in the same bed while her husband, David Cates, was on a business trip to Baltimore.
Jaimie awoke to hear mother's screams. Kimberly tried to protect her daughter, but she was essentially hacked to death. A coroner's report says she suffered more than 30 wounds, including having her throat slit. Jaimie would fare only slightly better.
Polcie says Spader and Gribble hammered away at her with a machete. One blow to her face was issued so forcefully that it broke her jaw. Another to the back of her head left an imprint on her skull. The two dickheads severed away pieces of her foot, stabbed her on both sides of her heart, and left a deep gash on her face just above her throat.
But the little girl outsmarted her shitbag attackers. She played dead until they were gone, then stumbled to the kitchen to call police.
Not only was Jaimie smarter than her attackers; she was also tougher. She would live to tell police of her story and testify at their trials.
Contrast this with the behavior of Spader and Gribble. After the attack, as New Hampshire was buzzing about the horrific assault on mother and daughter, police say the two morons bragged of their roles to friends and actually laughed about what they had done.
Their robbery managed to net just $130 from jewelry sold at a pawnshop. After reading about the attack on a newspaper website, prosecutors say Spader dogged Gribble by saying, "At least I killed my bitch."
| Quinn Glover testified that Spader fantasized about killing and eating people |
"He was euphoric, excited," Glover testified yesterday, according to the Boston Globe. "He seemed like he had just gotten off a roller coaster, an adrenaline rush... He said that he felt really good and said that he saw the woman reaching over to something, toward a light on the nightstand, and just kept hacking. He joked how she woke up to being hacked to death by a machete."
Glover, who was with accused killers Spader and Gribble that night, has agreed to testify against the punks in exchange for leniency in his own sentence. He pleaded guilty to burglary, robbery and conspiracy to burglary in exchange for a 20-40 year sentence. And his testimony yesterday was downright chilling.
He says Spader and Gribble went into the master bedroom and began hacking mother and daughter to death. "I heard screams and cries. I heard ...'Jaimie, run. Please don't do it. No, please, no.' "
Glover claims he didn't enter the bedroom at first, moving down the hall and covering his ears.
"I didn't want to believe what was happening."
When he later looked, he saw Kimberly in the room near death, moaning and moving slightly. That's when Gribble finished her off by slitting her throat. When it was all over, they all joked and laughed as they drove away from the scene.
Glover says their murderous fantasies began when they formed a club, known as the Disciples of Destruction. It was supposedly modeled after the Sons of Anarchy TV show, which is about a California biker gang. But instead of being drug dealers and gun runners, these pussies wanted to be killers who masqueraded as burglars.
Spader was obsessed with murderers like Charles Manson and the Zodiac Killer, Glover says. "He spoke about breaking into houses. And then he spoke generally, fantasizing about violence, murders, killing people, roasting people, eating people, putting heads on stakes and making scenes for news crews."
In other words, he was an attention-seeking shitbag who thought murder was the only way a loser could become famous. After he was caught, Spader even wrote a poem in jail, lamenting that he was such a stiff, he even failed at becoming a decent serial killer.
Another toe is gone.
How did we go wrong?
We had the perfect plan.
Machetes in our hand.
We went out in the house.
Turned the power off.
Quiet as a mouse.
We went up in the house.
We went up in the room.
Mommy is it you?
Your mommy isn't here.
I slit her throat from ear to ear.
Now we're all in jail.
Now we all have no bail.
Friends turning over friends.
And this is how the story ends.
See our previous stories: Christopher Gribble Regrets Not Killing 11-Year-Old Girl in Home Invasion.
Also see Christopher Gribble: This Guy's Gotta Die.
More links from around the web!
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I live 15 miles away from the scene of this crime and it haunts me constantly to think that these little shitbag fa**ots may still have other inductees to their little posse lurking among society. I am about as nonviolent as they come but this case truly changed my mind about the death penalty as well as having a gun in my home. Step into my family's sanctuary uninvited and you'll be leaving in a body bag.
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8-9 paragraphs down, Police is spelled wrong, Polcie or something?
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Dear Tracy Kim was a good friend of mine for a short time she helped me through a difficult time in my life. This was in 91 when she and I were in college. I hope that her famiyl is healing I can't even begin to imagine. I don;t understand why God didn't help her. There is no reason in the world for this to have happened. Love kari in Tucson
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I HAVE 6 PITBULLS AT MY HOUSE SO THEY CAN COME TRY MY HOUSE ANYDAY AT ALL !!! I WELCOME IT !!! TO ANY OF STEVEN SPADERS FRIENDS THAT MAY BE STILL RUNNING AROUND THE STREETS, COME TRY MY HOUSE, YOU WILL GO OUT IN BODY BAGS !!!
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prisons are overcrowded. too much money is spent on senseless trials. we are paying for them to live. I am a christian but I would feel better if anyone did such a thing or was involved be put to death. its the only way it wont happen again.
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Some how we have convinced our selves that death sentence should not be imposed but under very narrow circumstances. Lets see... There is not doubt that they did this. They hacked a mother to pieces and attempted to do the same to a 11-year old child. Life in prison always allows the possibility of escape, parole (regardless of what the judge says as the law can change), and the opportunity to kill a guard or prisoner while in prison. Other physcopaths will see this and feel that the best they will suffer if caught is life in prison. IT WILL COST THE TAX PAYERS TO KEEP THESE GUYS IN PRISON FOR 40-50 YEARS @ 25,000--50,000 PER YEAR. AND IF YOU GIVE THESE GUYS THE CHOICE THEY WOULD TAKE THE LIFE IN PRISON CHOICE SO THIS IS NOT WORST PUNISHMENT FOR THE PERPS FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. AND IF THEY ARE EXECUTED THEY GET TO FACE GOD SOONER. But with all of these reasons for execution they were given life sentences. CITIZENS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
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There are no words for what I just read above. I am 100% for the death penalty and after reading this just confirms why I am. My heart goes out to that family, that is a horrible way to die and that little girl was so brave.
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Condolences most of all to the daughter and family first... What can you possibly do here to actually serve justice for the victims and family. Sadly due to the nature of this hideous crime, you'd be hard put to achieve it. The most I suspect anybody will get is vengeance. Which is also sad, because that poisons. The death penalty will not serve here, folks, that is the easy way out. They must look at these two victims for the rest of the days of their lives, IMHO, until they themselves feel the crushing guilt of their crimes. Only then will justice be served... That must be part of their sentence. That they have pictures of the mother and daughter they destroyed in their 6x8 cell for the rest of their lives.
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This is ridiculous... "He faces the POSSIBILITY of life without parole" why is this even an option?!? For any of them for that matter!
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I truly don't understand why young kids like Steven Spader idolize someone like Charles Manson. I understand it in the sense that he is much more famous than his victims, which is sad. I am sure Spader thought, like many other recent murderers, that by doing something like this he would become famous and memorialized in the same fashion as Manson. However, if he was really as smart as he thinks he is he would know that Manson was nothing more than a slimy psychotic leader of a cult. A cult of a bunch of drugged out, young and impressionable individuals who had no idea who they were. He convinced them to do his dirty work. And all of those individuals who are in prison for the rest of their lives, separated from him for years, now realize how much of a cowardly, pathetic person he was, and still is. Youth like Spader believe that by buying into a false image of Manson they are subverting societal values and making some kind of revolutionary statement. In reality, they are placing themselves directly into the palm of mainstream media and pop culture, allowing themselves to be dictated to. I want to read a book and watch a movie that is entirely about Kim and Jamie Cates, with little to NO mention of the coward and his minions. Maybe it's not as "interesting", but it should become the way we remember. I think if it became like this, less crimes of this senseless nature would occur because the idea that fame and fans will come as a result of their committal would diminish. Such a brave girl, Jamie Cates.
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It's so sad when the United State's are doing everything they can to fight war's in other country's, sending brave men and women to fight and help people to feel secure in other country's, and so many brave people are losing their live's. Then 3 young men come along, and decide for a laugh, or to get their jolly's, they are going to brutally murder a parent with a great job, a nurse, helping people, and her child, who is tucked away in her bed, having lovely dream's. There are no word's to describe what these young men have done, there is no revenge, there deed's have been done. They are a product of a soceity that has gone wrong, i pray for the young girl that has survived, i pray for the family and friend's of the young girl and Mom that died so brutally, and i pray for the selfish men that did this, how would they feel being hacked or stabbed, or see their own family member's hacked or stabbed, it's not pleasurable, but i guess to them it's funny, forever they will get to ponder that thought, you men are not insane, simply young, and thinking you will never get old or die, i hope you get to live so one day you will understand the damage you have done.
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Ted, you seem pretty educated on legal issues but at the same time I find your opinions extremely jacked up to me. I am a cop and I do give a shit. It also appears that you are using this horrible murder case and open forum to bash cops. Admitedly, not all of the people in law enforcement are saints but isnt that the same in any profession, including yours whatever that is. There are those who care and some who dont. Do you want nice polite sensitive men responding to a madman with a gun or rough curt maybe even somewhat brutal men protecting you from that madman? You cant always have it both ways. The murder of anyone, cop or not, in this kind of manner is not only disturbing but incomprhensible even to me, a 13 year veteran officer, and I have seen my fair share of murdered people, people killed in car crashes and a thousand other means. There are cases and images that haunt me to this day but with love in my heart I deal with it and go on knowing that I do on occasion make a difference maybe even have saved a life and not known it, a few times I know I have. One more thing, I am not familiar with this supreme court case but I want to assure everyone on here that if you call 911 and its even remotely legitimate we will come blazing lights and sirens, rushing in when others are rushing out to stop that madman and save someone we dont even know or love, but we do it because we give a shit and its what we do. You may get a polite cop and you may get an asshole, but we will come. And our administrations all the way down to field supervisors will be asking questions if we do not respond in a resonable amount of time. With that said I have never known a murdered cop but its like being on the military, which I am also, and we know that some of will die every year, we know this and accept it. But we are far more appalled at heinous crimes like this and to insinuate that this country is more concerned about murdered cops than this poor murdered woman and what happened to her child is moronic. It is also a problem of prospective maybe, but it certainly doesnt represent the opinions of our society as a whole for sure. For the record I totally disagree with many of your "interpretations" of the law. Shambi... I agree whole heartedly!
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I have been following this case sense I first learned about it last year. A savage home invasion masked as a burglary where murder was the ulitmate prize for the 4 heartless boys. Thankfully today there was some justice. Steven Spader was convicted on all 6 counts filed against him. The judge gave him the max in each charge further stating that he deserves to be caged and will be caged like a animal for the rest of his life. This is the kind of crime that makes my blood run cold. Thank god for Lady Justice.
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The death penalty is far too kind for these disgusting things. I would almost prefer to see them set free so they can be hunted, violated, tortured and painstakingly exterminated by the vengeful general public in a manner more befitting their worth. They should not be regarded as animals because that would be a horrible insult to decent, good-natured animals everywhere.
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I believe an eye for an eye! I live 1 mile from the Cates home and I welcome these assholes to my home...if you get past my 4 dogues, you won't beat my .357! Why should we pay to keep these animals alive. They don't deserve to live. They took the life of a beautiful mother and destroyed a child's life forever. Put the bastards in general population...lets see how long you live!!
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As a proud gun toting New Hampshirite, I say the bullet is too humane. Let's set their face's on fire and put out the the fire with ice picks. This story reminds us that there are some carbon based life forms that are truly worthless, evil and need to be disposed of.... It's hard to imagine young men in NH behaving like the brainwashed scum that beheaded Daniel pearl. Maybe this is worse, at least Pearl's killer's had reasons for their actions.
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wow.... I would love to chop off there cocks and feed it to them how fucked up do you have 2 be to kill an innocent mother and daughter? What the hell is this world coming to? That could've easily been there mother their sister... I hope they rott in hell evil mother fuckers remember what goes around comes around GOD doesn't like ugly. I never knew I had to worry about sickos like spader and his wannah be homo thugz... I hope you guys dnt drop the soap because I know there's some guys who will love 2 fuck that white tight ass... you sicko most of us have kids.... I hope you are sentenced to death... I feel sorry for your mothers you put them through shame and imbarresment....my heart goes out to jami rip kim
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They all need to fry, but very slowly and painfully.
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@ Lear "This evil prick needs to do the entire 40 years." Is that enough or wise? So they potentially get out of prison in their late 50s or early 60s. They will not have a family or a career, most likely. Leave aside the question of pity that is not the point. Four different individuals with potentially four different ways of dealing with it. Might one of them have a chip on the shoulder? Are we expecting them to be old and worn out so that they could possibility act upon the chip?
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These mother fuckers need to fucking die. Why even waste time and money on them? @John Smalls: Dude, good for you. You'll see how much safer you'll feel to know you can protect your family from pieces of shit like these. I got a .357 waiting for anyone stupid enough to fuck with my house.
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The absolutely most heart wrenching thing about this is that this little girl will live with these images in her head forever. Just my opinion but I don't even think the death penalty is justice enough.
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What the states need to do is offer televised pay per view executions of shitbags like these and then give the proceeds to surviving victims and families. A good way to make people know that consequences are high and that if you kill someone, you really will be put to death. My heart goes out to the little girl, the horror she must have saw and the terror she felt will leave so many scars!
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I remember reading about this when it happened. I think the mom was a nurse. For some reason, out of all the horrible things I have read or heard about in my life, this story is one that stayed with me for months and months. I hope the little girl has been able to find some sort of healing both physically and emotionally. God rest your soul Kimberly.
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@Picasso: That thought actually gives me chills.
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@ occultjam: You wrote:"...all i can say is at least this spader demon was caught before he could make this his first of many murders..." No disrespect intended but how do you know?. How do we know that really, this is the first and only murder? We believe it is the first ans only commited as a group out of which somebody talked but he might also have done the same thing by himself for a while. I don't know the guy but it seems a little bit too casual to him to have been a first time. Not saying absolutely, just saying that it seems this way to me.. I hope that I'm wrong. Cheers...
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These two boys need the death penalty... They are just plan evil.
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Your right RaVen. Here's something else laughable ... back in July, he complained to the local newspaper that they wern't spelling his first name correctly. Follow this (copy and paste)for more detail: http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/795517-196/spader-to-newspaper-get-my-name-right.html
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all i can say is at least this spader demon was caught before he could make this his first of many murders. i'm sure his parents are really proud.
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Some good trial coverage, here: http://www.wmur.com/mont-vernon/index.html btw, his poetry is almost laughable. He's not remotely human.
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I really wouldn't be bothered knowing this poetic pussy had been hacked to pieces with a butter knife until dead.
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@Leah: Hear hear!
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We need, as a society, to be asking what creates these people who can find accomplices in their plans to murder. Does the guy who joins such a nihilistic clique but is willing to testify against the worst of the lot deserve much in a plea bargain? I can buy that he might have covered his ears and been horrified, but when you're keeping company with people that fantasize about cannibalism, really what right do you have to point the finger after getting caught slaughtering innocent, defenseless people with him? Thank god for his usefulness as a legal pawn, but lock him up and throw away the key, too.
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cut their heads off with a machete-I have one they can use...just let me sharpen it a little.
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OmG that poem he wrote made my skin crawl. That little punk deserves a bullet between the eyes but more than likely will be spared death unfortunately :/
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This Spader punk and the Gribble one really need the death penalty. But i really don't see it happening. I kind of hope for some in prison justice. But this is not a sure thing either. Neither of these 'boys' deserve the pity and compassion that they are requesting. they had NONE for this mother and her child. So why should we as the public, give to them what they didn't give? the other's are just as guilty wheither they swung a blow or not. And they should both be punished to the fullest of the law as well. To sit there and say that he heard the screaming and ran down the hall with his hands over his ears? That's a 'baby' talking. and he is trying to get out of any blame in this horrific crime. Which is why he plead guilty and copped a deal
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Home security system had been broken for 2 years. The four young gentlemen thought he home was unoccupied. So burglars might be caught and rather than spend 0 to several years in jail they decide on the spot to kill you and wipe out your life from 11 to 74. Your 64 years versus their 7? Access was made through a basement window. The fine young gentleman had trouble accessing the rest of the house. I thought that I read that they cut around an window A/C unit. All this takes time. But youngsters are impulsive and we know impulse can be long and drawn out. That is why they are called IMPULSES.
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Gribble who was older than 18 was charged with 1st degree murder. wmur.com/mont-vernon/25356990/detail.html But 1st degree murder is not heinous enough for the DP.
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- Webelo - Cub Scout - Boy Scout - Eagle Scout Spader was a long time Boy Scout. Was he an Eagle Scout? If he didn't make Eagle Scout and got a GED instead of a diploma, it doesn't mean that he is /was not capable. But it might be a clue. He might be disgruntled because he is not making it.
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If the crime had happened 36 days later then the child Spader would have been 18 and could have faced the DP. http://www.wmur.com/mont-vernon/25356456/detail.html But what would The Amnesty International people think us? But Amnesty International doesn't protect people day in day out.
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@ Caty: You could get a lock box that is keyed to you. It opens as quickly as you could grab a baseball bat. If you hit a shithead a glancing blow in your own house, I don't think it would go well for you. They would retreat hurt or would become enraged. Kind of a coin toss. I hope this never happens. It probably won't because you take necessary protections. That is you have made yourself a HARD TARGET. @ Krsistin Old Case law. I was not aware that Riss versus NY had been overturned. So really? And your comments about Riss vs NY looked Trollosh, peevish. Last getting a gun & a dog is not "No shit Sherlock" As it is Mayor Bloomberg has not got that MEMO. But he will always live in a "GATED COMMUNITY" so he can take the high & snooty high ground of denying guns to mere plebians. After all he is of the Senatorial class and us plebeians don't know our stations. We can't be trusted. @ Pete: I agree with your 1st statement. I do not agree with the second. I'll collect some comprehensive stats. But that is for later. In second grade (so about 8) we had a gun rack in the kitchen. there were 3 or 5 guns with ammo readily available. That is anecdotal I understand and not a statistical finding. IMO it depends on the parent. If I misused those guns I would have had holy hell beat out of me. And I knew it. I was around those guns with at least one other kid and they asked to take them down. It did not happen. You have to look at crimes prevented when dealing with gun/crime stats. II would argue it is more statistically sound than jobs created or saved.
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Caty and Pete.. Agreed. Even thought i do own guns (handguns and rifles) Ted: #1 NH DOES have Death Penalty. But this isn't a case where it will be utilized. There are 'standards' NH uses to determine use of this. Attempt of murder is not one of them. There hasn't been a criminal executed in NH since 1978. And there have been many case which should have called for it, but wasn't. As far as the law still being on the books, well... it's like all states. There are laws still on the books that are not enforced. for instance- MA has a no cohab law since the 1800's. It says that males and females who are NOT married can be arrested and jailed up to 6 months for cohabbing without a marriage license. But the law isn't enforced because it can't be. to many people live together without marrying. But they won't remove it from the books. and don't forget, MA is a NO commonlaw state. And they tried to vacate this law many times. They even did a 'domestic partnership' to prevent anyone possible getting arrested. But when same sex marriages came in, out went the partnerships. Catch 22. Damn if you do, damn if you dont. NH has a lot of laws that have never been removed. And i can't see any of them being removed in my lifetime. NH is still very colonial. In it's own ways. And we have had murders in MA where the people involved are from NH and somehow they end up here and commit these crimes. Why? MA has no DP law. YET>>>>> Should be on the ballot if not this year then in the next 2 yrs. So bottomline.... there will not be any DP sentence for these guys. Sad. But that's where things are. And the boys who had their pics in the year book were not Spader or Gribble. It was the other 2 boys. But still. That was a major slap in the face of the family of the victims. This 11 yr old girl is going to tell the courts in all of the trials what these monsters did. And then the jury will condeme them. plain and simply.
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@Kristin: For a few quick points you certainly made an impact. I thought him calling you a liberal would get that effect. If he only took the time to read... Whew, now I need to put some ice on my eyebrows, they are singed... LOL!
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@Pete Kotz: I have heard those statistics as well, and I don't own a gun mainly because for a long time I lived in DC and the law prohibited that. Now I have gone for so long without one, I really don't see that it would really and truly help. If I am in my home, with the gun *properly* secured, how in the heck will I get to it in time to shoot an intruder? Especially if it is the middle of the night and I am asleep? I have an alarm and I have a Louisville Slugger (my parents live in KY). I lock my doors and take reasonable and necessary precautions. That is the best that I can do, that is all any of us can do. Nowhere and nothing is completely safe and risk free.
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@ Ted, Are you really as dense as you appear? I don't have time to spar online today, but will make a quick couple of points. 1) I was asking you, repeatedly, why you were bringing up older ages when the legal standard is under 18. What part of under 18 and can't be executed do you not get? I wasn't giving my opinion, I was clarifying law. Clearly, you are not astute enough to differentiate. Since you're asking, though, I will give my opinion. If it were up to me we'd execute anyone over 15 for heinous murders. You clearly don't read any of my posts, because no one in their right flaming minds would call me liberal, lol. 2) It's not "trollish" to accurately depict how the law works. You are a perfect example of someone who reads one little article and thinks they're an expert on the law. Why don't you leave that to us who actually graduated law school. I don't mind you giving your opinions on whatever you want, but when you start spouting misinformation about subjects where you are ill-informed, I take issue with that. 3) Finally, thanks for heads up about getting a gun, a dog and or a security system. No shit, Sherlock. Thanks for stating the obvious. 4) Yes, Ted, it DOES matter when you are quoting old case law. Case law is frequently overturned which means the holding is no longer valid. (Holding means "conclusion", essentially.) Please don't continue to spew information that is absolutely incorrect, it's really annoying.
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"To me the difference between murder and attempted murder is NONE AT ALL." Agreed, Ted. Attempted murder just means you suck at murder, and sucking shouldn't mean you get a break. But statistically speaking, I believe gun owners are far more likely to take out a relative than defend themselves against bad guys. That's why I don't have any guns.
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Ok, the hell with wasting time, money and energy at trials. They are guilty, plain and simple. I hopoe they get the death penalty, and I dont mean some sissy needle stuck in their arm, so they die peacefully in their sleep, I mean bring back the dam electric chair, FRY THEIR ASSES!!!! Let them feel pain, terror, and torment. Do it like they did in The Green Mile...dont wet the dam sponge!! Make it last long, so they get electricuted over and over and over again. Why should we have to pay taxes for this evil P.O.S. to sleep in jail for the rest of his life living off 3 meals a day and not have a care in the world???
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Gribble was 19 when he attempted to murder an 11 year old. My bad, I'm talking about 19 year old Gribble and I kept talking about Gribble. Kristin was talking about Spader, the murdering 17 year old. Krisitn is correct that Spader would not face the death penalty. My post of 06:15:31 PM showed that I was talking about Gribble. Kristin did not read it carefully as shown by her post of 11:28:39 PM. The above article starts with he tname Steven Spader (in brown font) and it mention Spader 8 times to Gribbles 10. It ends with Gribbles name in brown font. So I thought that Gribble was the murderer instead of the attempted murderer. My BAD. To me the difference between murder and attempted murder is NONE AT ALL. A few more minutes and the 11 year old might have bled out. The only difference between living and dying for the 11 year old girl was her reaching the phone and police/EMT response time. The difference on her living was not the intent of Gribble. So he gets life now instead of execution? If the 11 year old had not reached the phone the father would have come home and found his expired child. Consider that! Apparently, there is no death penalty for attempted murder of an 11 year old. The 11 year old had severe lacerations to her limbs and her face. Being maimed by having a portion of your foot cut off along with a punctured lung is not enough to get someone executed in most parts of this uncivilized country. Steven Spader was 17 at the time of the murder. Lucky for him that the NH in the RECENT PAST the legislature was unceasingly petitioned by special interest groups "like" njjn to up it to 18. njjn has been around 10 years as of 2010. So if Steven Spader had been 17 and committed a crime like this pre-2000, then he would have the possibility of facing the death penalty. Thanks njjn. njjn.o rg/media/resources/public/resource_128.pdf The reasons (not trusting their counsel, impulsivity, ignorance of the law) the njjn cite are crap. We teach civics and consumer ed in schools. We can't teach about law to 14 & 15 year old highschoolers to prepare them? Impulsivity is not going to be any better for a 20 something than a teenager if they are coddled. It is similar to giving your kid an allowance and letting them go broke. Those kids will more likely be financially responsible as adults, then kids who continually splurge their allowance and parents keep bailing them out so as to not deny them. The latter kids are the ones we read about as adults who are maxed out on credit cards (IMO). So my concern about IMPULSIVITY is that njjn can cite Psych studies, but these are not the last word in psych studies. A liitle bit of knowledge can be dangerous and is here. We'll be doing psych studies for many many more years. Many current psych results will be debunked or ammended. By bad on the the mix up between the "tender 17 year old" Spader and the 19 year old Gribble. It is not my bad on Kristins comment reprinted below. "Further, you do realize you're quoting outdated case law from 1958, right?" That seems TROLLish, condescending or something. If a law if 52 years old does not make it outdated merely due to age. If it was reasoned correctly, it is good to the end of time. The case Kristin said was outdated is Riss v. City of New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579, 293 NYS2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. Ct. of Ap. 1958). The case is not outdated. An individual has no expectation that the police will protect them specifically. I agree with Kristin on that one little point. This is just an EGREGIOUS example, not of police not protecting someone, but of the POLICE NOT ALLOWING SOMEONE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. That is a major point. The point is a gun ban is stupid. The former boyfriend of Ms. Riss did not use a gun, he used ACID. She was blinded and disfigured. Tell me she had a wonderful life. If Ms Riss had a gun or someone else around her had one she may have not been blinded. Her boyfriend is a "great ape" in that he/it calculates odds and outcomes. He might have still attacked her if he had known she might have been armed or had known it, but the odds go down by double digit percentages. That is what is being denied. My advice is to get a weapon (preferable a gun) and an alarm system (ADT or a dog). The alarm alerts you and allows you to call 911 and avoid a confrontation for both parties. In extremis you have equally chances of jumping a perp. Rely on pepper spray if you want. It is more of an irritant than anything and could really piss the other person off and they beat you worse.
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Ted, I am not really sure why you got so huffy when Kristin pointed out some facts. Calling her a troll or any other word you think is pejorative isn't a way to get good information out there. Being liberal or conservative in your views is not a case of right or wrong, but a point of view. I am glad we have both. I have lived and worked in many other countries, and despite flaws and inadequacies, it is better to be here than anywhere else in the world. I for one appreciate reading some of the information you have posted AND I think that Kristin has good information as well. I like learning from other people. BTW if you have read any of Kristin's posts you would see that what mostly she is fair, measured in her responses and is generally very civil to others. If that is being a liberal then I guess I am one too.
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This story still gives me chills. These people are the walking dead...no conscience, no remorse, no feelings. Empty rotten souls preying on others for sport, bragging about their bloody rampage. It's beyond comprehension. I hope Jaimie will be able to lead some kind of normal life after living through this horror. Hopefully she is and/or has been receiving some intense psychiatric help. It's depressing to realize you aren't even safe in your own home. Too bad Kim wasn't sleeping with her finger on the trigger of a LadySmith 9mm to blow their fucking heads off.
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Ted, I don't know much, but I'm excellent at researching. I know that it is impossible to convict a minor and I quote, " under the age of 18 years old. Kristin is right, she's is up front, and forth-right in her posts. She seems to post honestly. Why would you insult Kristin because she answered you back with facts? Like she said, "If the crime was committed before the person's 18 BD, they will never see death row.
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@ Kat We must deter people from killing cops. Such a sanction is need ed for the justice system to continue working. If not how will society survive. But killing a family is not such a problem. Society can survive the death a family more easily than the death of a cop. At least that is what the law is saying in so many words.
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"I'm shocked that someone such as yourself who apparently likes to cite case law wouldn't be aware of this. Further, you do realize you're quoting outdated case law from 1958, right? One more thing. The 1958 case didn't hold that the police didn't have to provide protection. What it held was that the duty to provide protection was a *general* one. This means they owe a duty to the general public, not specific individuals. That suit was an attempt to breach the concept of governmental immunity and it failed. " WROTE Kristin If a law or a case is soundly reasoned, does it matter if it was made or argued a second ago or a 1,000 years ago. If it matters how long ago that it was made or argued, then the reasons for it matter not and only the time elapsed matters. You cannot expect police to be everywhere. That is the point. The point is to argue for effective self defense. Effective self defense is to not pit a female's brawn against a male's brawn. Only Hollywood or a lib would do that. If someone wants to break into a house, they could case the joint. They would know who lives there. By observation they could figure combat odds in a bare knuckled fight. If they like the odds they go for it. If you allow the occupant of the house to have access to a gun. Well now how do you calculate the odds of that? Many times the perp like a good little monkey will know the odds are not so good and desist. That is back off for you that live inside the beltway.
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@ everyone "To answer your question, the Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that executing juveniles for crimes committed prior to turning 18 constituted cruel and unusual punishment. " wrote Kristin If the murder happened on Oct 4, 2009 and Gribble was born Oct 18 1989, how is he a juvenile? Explain that for everyone reading this?
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@ Kristin - You're liberal troll. A person commits a heinous crime at age 19 almost 20. You desire/want to say he is a juvenile. You are a troll or a lib. Since the murderer was older than 18 there is NOTHING CRUEL or unusual about executing him. The only cruel part is that you still don't know that said perp is older than 18. Granted the duty of the police is a *general* one. Duh! That is the point. Therefore the necessity to stand up for the rights enshrined in the constitution specifically the 2nd Amendment. Are you arguing that people should not have 2nd amendment rights? Are you arguing that we should only have "HERD immunity" like the herd immunity that zebra, gnus or wildebeasts have against predators? Apparently that is what you are arguing. To repeat & ad on - The perp is older than 18. It has been pointed out numerous times. "Me thinks" that you are related to John and are a troll. My pointing out 21 was that is the age of "complete" majority. And that the perp was closer to compete majority than to the age of 18. The age of 18 is arbitrary as far as I am concerned. The age of majority was raised from 16 to 18 around the 1880s. Until some one can explain what for & how come I will regard it as irrelevant. To me the important cutoff is the "age of reason." You might not like that, but so what. I come from a different background than you. Call it a different culture. Since we know all cultures are equal, we then know my view point is valid and the perp should hang even if he were 13. That is multiculturalism for you. All view points are equally valid.
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I think what makes this trial most disappointing is that the prosecution can't go for the death penalty. I don't know the exact details, but I know here in the state of NH there are only a few crimes in which they can seek the death penalty. Shame cause we still have hanging on the books and I'm sure there would be a great turnout to see these monsters swing. It's sad, we wonder how crimes like these end up getting committed and why they're on the rise, but the reason is the justice system, and it's not just here in NH. There are too many ways for dirtbags like these to get off and god forbid they actually are sentenced to the death penalty, lord knows it's not going to happen for years on end because criminals are allowed to appeal. I know I sound like a capital punishment nut, but the more details you hear from the trial, the more sickening it becomes and the more you wants to see these asswipes burn in hell.
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@ Ted - One more thing. The 1958 case didn't hold that the police didn't have to provide protection. What it held was that the duty to provide protection was a *general* one. This means they owe a duty to the general public, not specific individuals. That suit was an attempt to breach the concept of governmental immunity and it failed.
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@ Ted - To answer your question, the Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that executing juveniles for crimes committed prior to turning 18 constituted cruel and unusual punishment. I'm shocked that someone such as yourself who apparently likes to cite case law wouldn't be aware of this. Further, you do realize you're quoting outdated case law from 1958, right?
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I just looked it up these shitbags get to meet their maker in hell. NH does have the death penalty! But how many years will they get to sit in death row until they are executed? http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-in-states/page.do?id=1101153
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@ Ted, I was asking why you keep bringing up 19, 20 and 21. He was over 18 when the crime was committed, so unsure why there were repeated random references to different ages.
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@TR: I think you are very right. Life, no parole and no luxuries like television, conjugal visits, and enough hard physical work to make them to tired to fight when they get back to their cells. But some of the things I have seen on this site have really tested my feelings about the death penalty. I still don't think it is a deterrent. But some crimes are so bad...I just don't know hoe any punishment a civilized society can impose will ever be enough.
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Although I see no reason not to kill them and watch them suffer...we all know that won't happen. Even the death penalty takes all precautions to prevent suffering (physical anyways). I think life in prison is the most appropriate punishment and the worst. Life in prison also saves the tax payers dime from allowing these types off filthbags to appeal time and time again. They belong housed with similar monsters...for the next 60 years or so.....it's just too bad prisons allow ANY luxuries like warm water or television. They should have nothing but minimal scraps and hard work.
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that is horrifying. although there are people like that there are people like hero's who base their life on repaying those types because of their loss or losses. believe me even if those muderers don't get justice on earth there will be heard of examples of hero like acts even if it ends the wrong way in others opinion. "an eye for an eye" for all that judge this for wrong and let it lye,.... well i was just quoting the bible. so can i get an amen for those rouge m'fers?
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@ dartfrog Gribble wanted to join the military. Since he was never given orders to go in country, we do not know if he would have refused out of fear. So he may no be scared of having someone shoot back. Then again he might because they chose to attack a woman and her daughter. They say they chose someone at RANDOM(?). Did they really? It is easier for 4 people to attack 2. Especially when they don't know you are coming, your both female and one is a child. It was convenient that they did not have to face a grown male. Was it random or were they PUSSIES? The military establishment dodge a bullet. If Gribble is a sociopath, then we could have possibly heard of it down the line as a WAR Crime. So at least of them were 18 or older. It takes a split second to form intent. They cut power to the house, cut around an air condition to gain access at one window and broke thru a second window. They broke thru the non A/C window first. Why they all didn't use it? Couldn't be inconvenienced in crawling thought due to being out of shape or fat? Anyway they expended a lot of EFFORT before they started attacking the mother and her child. So why caught the DA charge such that they get the death penalty. IMO he seems moronic. When is this DA up for re-election He needs to be voted out if he was elected or tender his resignation if he was appointed. MORON!
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The death penalty is only legal in NH for the killing of a police officer. Even if the DA wanted to ask for the death penalty, he cannot. I live in Mont Vernon, NH and know more than I want to know about this dispicable crime.
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@alecto, you hit the nail with the hammer, i agree totally!
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The police may not care (i.e. give a shi t)! Riss v. City of New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579, 293 NYS2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. Ct. of Ap. 1958). Oh and criminal boy does not need a gun, knife, sword, or baseball bat to mess you up for life.
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@ Kristin "The death penalty cannot be given to those who were under 18 at the time the crime was committed" - says who? - Based on what? Gribble Crime: Oct 4, 2009 Born: - Oct 18, 1989 ============== 19 years 50 weeks Sorry Kristin, but i had to smack you upside the head. I bring up 19, 20, 21 because of the concepts of the age of majority, the age of reason, when people form/know the difference between right & wrong, form intent,.... Depending on the intent of the editor or writer, they may try to sway a reader by writing teenager repeatedly, when writing up a story of a 19 year old criminal. While technically correct, they are nonetheless trying to sway/influence their readership to their point of view. Using words this way is like trying to subliminally influence people like coke tried to in the 50s at theaters. That is my contention. I am not saying that of this writer. But I would say if of some posters. So I pointed out that this person was 2 weeks shy of 20. He is much closer to the age of full majority than to the age of 18. Reading the story in this article given in the link below wmur.c o m/news/25356990/detail.html makes me think that life was not going as planned, so he become anti social. "Gribble wanted to become a Marine and was part of a U.S. Army Cadet Corps group that met in Nashua. He won academic and good conduct honors while part of the group, but dropped out in 2008 after failing a training course. Friends said that it was around the summer of 2008 that they started to see a change in Gribble's demeanor." -From WMUR.c o m My take is I failed a course. So my life's plans are off track. I see no way ahead where life will be good for me. SO I am going to fuck at least a few people up. That is my take on the reason for the crime. Will we tolerate someone, who wants to kill people because they are mad that they life is temporarily or permanently off track from the road they wanted to take? I know that I was under sever stress the 1st half of my senior year because I did not know If I would be accepted and get on with the next phase of my life. I had severe cramps and it was all psychosomatic. So I can relate to a highscool student wondering WTF they are going to do in life. But again because your life is off track does that give you the right to mess someone up?
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Ted, The death penalty cannot be given to those who were under 18 at the time the crime was committed. Why do you keep talking about 19, 20, 21?
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@Ted: Sweet baby Jesus. After reading that, I am now prepared to believe almost anything that the government will do to avoid being responsible for a lawsuit. I had heard something about this case when I was in DC going to school in the late 80's but had no idea it was so egregious. Thanks for opening my eyes.
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wmur.com/news/25356990/detail.html had this information: Name: Christopher Gribble Birth Date: Oct. 18, 1989 Hometown: Brookline, N.H. School: Didn't graduate Arrested: Oct. 6, 2009 Jury Selection: Scheduled for Feb. 11, 2011 The murder occurred on Oct 4, 2009. So Gribble was still 19 year old teenager. He was 14 days shy of being 20. However has he really reached the "age of majority"? He can vote and be conscripted. But he can't drink. He may not be able to enter into binding legal contracts. Sooo I agree with the dear DA that this is a TOUGHY about deciding to seek the death penalty. If he goes for the death penalty the in crowd might not invite him to any more soirees.
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@Ted: Aaah, now I understand. Thanks. Sociopaths are born with no ability to feel guilt/shame or to acknowledge that right and wrong apply to them in the way it applies to broader society. Supposedly 4% of the population is sociopathic, but fortunately most do not commit crimes. They just make employers/family/acquaitances miserable with their constant drama and self-serving shenanigans. The don't obey the law for fear of being caught, but because they just have never desired something enough/been obsessed enough to go after a criminal goal. Long discussion short, I think this is a twisted way to boost self-esteem (level 4 on the hierarchy of needs). Getting away with something no one else can, being certain they can do it boosts this in a twisted way. I am not sure if this is right, and to be honest, I would be afraid of myself if I *could* figure out accurately what monsters like this are trying to achieve.
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This one is not nice for women to read. Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).
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WAKE UP NEW HAMPSHIRE!!! THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWAITING THEIR EXECUTION ON DEATH ROW!!!! You have the death penalty, if it's not going to be used to punish criminals like these scumbags, then why have it in the first place!!
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Everyone knows that Shit like this can't be rehabilitated. Do we want to waste the tax payers money trying to? The age of these killers are getting younger, and younger. The crimes are getting more horrific as time goes by. Regardless of the age of a Criminal, the punishment needs to fit the crime and that's the way it is suppose to work. ha, ha. You get these little fuckers under 14 years old that murder people, and their not eligible for the death penalty, because of their age. A death row inmate could die waiting to be executed by the time they their execution date comes up.
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@ Caty "Maybe you could explain why people need to experience other people dying. It doesn't fall under food, shelter, clothing. It does not fall under sex. Where in Maslow's hierarchy of needs does it fall? Power? Status." Killers have stated that they have killed people because they wanted to know how it felt. Like the case in Missouri where the teenager killed the 11 year old friend of her sister. Where does that come from? Is it idiopathic? Wanting a power trip? what?
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(A) "Because the police have no general duty to protect individuals, judicial remedies are not available for their failure to protect. In other words, if someone is injured because they expected but did not receive police protection, they cannot recover damages by suing (except in very special cases, explained below). Despite a long history of such failed attempts, however, many, people persist in believing the police are obligated to protect them, attempt to recover when no protection was forthcoming, and are emotionally demoralized when the recovery fails. Legal annals abound with such cases. " - Peter Kasler - firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html (B) "In general, women can exert on AVERAGE about 30% less force than men." -James L. Smith (C) Criminals make many mistakes. But many criminals are smart enough to know they have a physical advantage over most females they may victimize. So I ask the dear liberal, do you want to make it easier for criminals to determine how hard it will be to take down a woman living on her own? Concealed carry creates doubt. Remove all doubt for the criminal mind. Disarm women.
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Wow, AngryGrandma, that's ridiculous. You would THINK that hacking up a mother and daughter with machetes might be grounds to exclude you from the HS year book... That's right up there with kicking a cheerleader off of the squad for not wanting to give it up for her rapist.
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Look up the phrase "no duty to protect". OMFG scary. Forget what your kindegarten teacher told you. To Serve & Protect vs. the reality SETTLED law - "no duty to protect" Still looking for the recent case. For some reason I believe it was in Ohio.
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"something about the age of these murderers." Really? Spade is 18. Gribble is ...? What are the political predelictions of this DA? 18 is less than 21, the drinking age, so these people could not have formed intent. They had not reached the age a of majority. What is it now? 21? 26?
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yeah this is a true story. There was even a big bang a few months ago when the high school these monsters went to wanted to included their pictures in the yearbook. And DID! Mr Cates and family blew gaskets! threatened to sue the school district and to sue the family of the killers. boy, that was a harsh few weeks. Last i heard the DA is still deciding if he is going for the death pentaly. something about the age of these murderers.
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Federal. Trying to look it up now.
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@ BooBooKitty "Is that true? Police dont have to show up when you call them? What makes people like this? Fucking sociopaths." I'll try to look up the Supreme court case. If I don't cite, sooner or later people will stop believing. I would appreciate help as google is not always effective. Mercede, help please?
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@Ted: I do not understand your question. Can you please rephrase it?
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"murder of a police officer or judge" So the hacking to death of mother & attempted hacking to death of a daughter are not deserving of the same SOCIETAL SANCTION as a precious black robed judge ("murder of a police officer or judge")? Well consider a judge has a law degree and therefore he/she is of the ruling class. Whereas the women was a mere mother and wife. What does society need more, a mother/wife or a judge?
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The fact that these fucks were unconcerned about the consequences of their actions tells you that our system is not nearly tough enough. There is not one fucking reason not to execute upon conviction. Instead, we will waste the next 20 years on baseless appeals, and continue to feed these useless fucks and allow them to watch TV. A civilized society would put these fucks down like the rabid monkeys that they are.
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Very sad. I live in the area where this happened & people are still in awe. It's horrible because last I knew New Hampshire has the death penalty but has not had an execution since 1976. New Hampshire state law makes the death penalty available only in limited cases: the murder of a police officer or judge, murder for hire, and murder during a kidnapping, rape or some drug crimes. I think it's time to revise the limitations. I believe these boys deserve it. I also don't get the "not guilty" plea w/ Spader. He has continued to brag to other inmates while in prison w/ details they say only the killer would know. I think he's the one who even wrote a poem about it while in prison. Sick. For those of you who would be interested in watching the trial live- Go to: http://www.wmur.com/mont-vernon/index.html
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There have been cases of police & prosecutorial malfeasance. Maybe in those cases an eye for an eye is appropriate. But for cases where people are caught "red handed", why should it take so long? If this young man(?), were paroled at some point due to court order (overcrowding), parole board, governor commutation (turned over new leaf, got religion), would anyone want them living next door to them. If you don't want them living next door to you than don't promote that. Also don't promote life imprisonment, because it has been shown that killer are released to kill again. We need a better justice system, where we prosecute bad justice officials instead of one where we say bad justice officials will always happen so let not ever put someone who is "dead to rights" guilty to death.
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Hey Ted, okay, I get ya now :) I'm in NYC and have to say you're right, it isn't easy to own a firearm and really I'm okay with that.
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Hey Ted "Shouldn't people who we call psychopaths and who are obviously guilty be fast tracked for the death penalty like in 1,3 or 5 years?" YES!!! how about once proven guilty put them down immediately!!
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@ cbabyrko "drop their asses in Afghanistan with a potatoe gun and a defective bulletproof vest and see how long they survive." And if the Taliban doe snot kill them? They could say all your sins will be forgiven if you convert and carry out terror attacks in the U.S. We'll provide the ticket to Mexico and you walk across the border.
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Is that true? Police dont have to show up when you call them? What makes people like this? Fucking sociopaths.
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@ Shannie: Sorry for the typos. Keyboard is wearing out and I can't find an exact replacement. "I hope you don't live in New York City. They are more interested in keeping guns from honest citizens than policing the police ranks or catching criminals." The supreme court has ruled that the police do not have to show up if you call 911. They do not have to show up in a reasonable amount of time. They do not have to show up if you call 911, ever. Police are to provide a general level of protection for the public. So what I am saying is don't expect the police to protect you. I thought John lived on the East Coast. In NYC the virulent anti-gun Mayor Bloomberg is setting up barriers to legal gun ownership. For example if you have a parking ticket or speeding ticket you your application could be denied. Mayor Bloomberg has several things working for him that your average citizen does not. He is a multi millionaire and can afford private security services like ADT. Many people can not. He is a famous politician. Many criminals would not consider committing a crime against him because of the holy hell that would come down on them. Some mayors may have police protection. So these are three reasons why Mayor Bloomberg lives in a safer world than the rest of us regardless of what the gun laws are. So IMHO his feelings & circumstances could begin to come near what we, the common people, experience. I may agree btw that a city or state could deny one temporarily for lack of child support payment. I'd rather not, but it might be the best way currently. No gun laws would have stopped this murder & attempted murder of two people with machetes. @ Caty: Maybe you could explain why people need to experience other people dying. It doesn't fall under food, shelter, clothing. It does not fall under sex. Where in Maslow's hierarchy of needs does it fall? Power? Status. @ Everyone: Shouldn't people who we call psychopaths and who are obviously guilty be fast tracked for the death penalty like in 1,3 or 5 years?
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Kill them! No questions asked kill the pieces of shit...or drop their asses in Afghanistan with a potatoe gun and a defective bulletproof vest and see how long they survive. LWOP is way too good for sacks of horse shit like these two especially the one who said at least I killed my bitch. That alone should warrant the DP.
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they all have opened the gates of hell for themselves and Satan is waiting with his evil sneer for them to walk on through.
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I didn't believe this was a real story. I googled it to see if I could find other sources. Unfortunately I did. I say if the state is not man enough to put him down let the family.
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Life without parole is too good for those scumbags.
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I've never thought of myself as a violent person, but after reading this I think I'd have no problem pulling the trigger if these pieces of shit were in front of the gun.
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shannie lol
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Ted whaa??
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Life without parole is not good enough. They need to bring back "Old Sparky" for these monsters. I cannot imagine what the poor little girl is going through. What a brave strong little lady. I hope this doesn't damage her too much in the future.
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